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Free College and Realignment
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00yyz Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Free College and Realignment
Holefuly it will never pass as it is a bad idea...

This is pure socialism for starters that will be payed with tax payer money...
Why should people who chose not to attend college be forced to pay the bills of those who do???
College degrees are already required in far to many jobs where they have no real value...
There are already millions of college graduates with college degrees who cannot get jobs???
Will the US NANNY state elimate all worthless degrees since joe taxpayer is footing the bill...
College in the US is highly affordable if done smartly and the person gets a degree that is worth the paper it is printed on...
Colleges can give people knoweledge but not the intelligence to use the knoweledge correctly...
Two thumbs down for the United Socialist States of America...
07-31-2016 07:15 PM
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GhentFan Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Free College and Realignment
(07-31-2016 05:19 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  Terrible idea all around.

Why?

I'm no where near to being a democrat, but I'm starting to warm up to this idea.
07-31-2016 08:11 PM
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GhentFan Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Free College and Realignment
(07-31-2016 06:55 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(07-31-2016 09:45 AM)ODU BLUE Wrote:  
(07-31-2016 09:35 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(07-31-2016 08:36 AM)ODU BLUE Wrote:  If the democrats win in November and taxpayers are required to pick up the tab for everyone's public university tuition, how will it affect NCAA sports. From what I have read about the proposal it puts tremendous pressure of schools to cut cost. Would it cause a further split between public and private schools? Your thoughts?

Take this crap to the spin room.

Legitimate question. Looking for a serious discussion. Spin room is not the place to have it.

This forum is absolutely not the place to have it.

OP asked how a possible Free college situation would affect college sports. I think this is the place to ask and it is a fair question.

Not asking if college should or should not be free. But the impact of what would/could happen to 1 aspect of the University (in this case sports).
07-31-2016 08:14 PM
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GhentFan Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Free College and Realignment
(07-31-2016 07:15 PM)00yyz Wrote:  Holefuly it will never pass as it is a bad idea...

This is pure socialism for starters that will be payed with tax payer money...
Why should people who chose not to attend college be forced to pay the bills of those who do???
College degrees are already required in far to many jobs where they have no real value...
There are already millions of college graduates with college degrees who cannot get jobs???
Will the US NANNY state elimate all worthless degrees since joe taxpayer is footing the bill...
College in the US is highly affordable if done smartly and the person gets a degree that is worth the paper it is printed on...
Colleges can give people knoweledge but not the intelligence to use the knoweledge correctly...
Two thumbs down for the United Socialist States of America...

I agree with you on that there are too many jobs that require a College degree needlessly.
College is not highly affordable. There are cases where you can get a full ride via sports, academics or even some schools are tuition free. The vast majority of peoples situations however are not in that camp. The average US graduate as $38k in student loan debt. That is not a small amount. (Again, that debt is needless for many people as their profession more than likely does NOT require a college education).

One thing to consider about why this might be a good idea.
The US / World Economy is changing, and it is changing fast.
The automation of the workforce is only accelerating. With estimations of 50% of the current jobs that currently exist will no longer sometime around 2030. That is a lot of people with out a job and will need to be retrained to take over the new jobs that will be created.

If these people are not retrained and cannot work, the costs of providing other forms of social support will be FAR more expensive in the long term.

I've already gotten too political with this.

Again, OP's question

(07-31-2016 08:36 AM)ODU BLUE Wrote:  If the democrats win in November and taxpayers are required to pick up the tab for everyone's public university tuition, how will it affect NCAA sports. From what I have read about the proposal it puts tremendous pressure of schools to cut cost. Would it cause a further split between public and private schools? Your thoughts?

Should this happen (Not if this is a good idea or not).
What impact do you think it would have on the schools and their sports programs.
07-31-2016 08:30 PM
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00yyz Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Free College and Realignment
The average new car price is 33k...
So 38k is a small amount if you get a real degree in a needed area...
If you go to a comunity college first and then a U you can pay a whole lot less...
Another huge problem with degrees is that many of the jobs that require them are being automated out of exestince not just factory jobs...

But if it happens as I thought it was proposed as a two year community college degree it should have little to no impact on college athletics that give scholarships...
If it happens at the four year level then athletic scholarships should no longer be given...
(This post was last modified: 07-31-2016 10:20 PM by 00yyz.)
07-31-2016 10:17 PM
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58-56 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Free College and Realignment
(07-31-2016 08:30 PM)GhentFan Wrote:  What impact do you think it would have on the schools and their sports programs.

If everyone's on scholarship, then no one's on scholarship. Everyone is a walkon.

If it leads to college sports being played essentially under D3 rules, this would be a good thing.

It could also lead to more honest accounting (following Andy Schwarz's analysis of scholarship costs). Right now colleges cry poor by listing the full value of tuition as an expense, even though it goes from one university pocket to another. Take that off the table and suddenly a whole lot more programs are in the black.

Universities do need to cut costs (firing every dean and vice president with "associate" in their title would be a damned fine start). Hell, our useless sack-of-suet president at UAB makes $853,000 a year. Hell yes costs need to be cut, starting with his red-faced pumpkin-headed dumb ass. But sports are probably not going to be one of those areas.
(This post was last modified: 07-31-2016 10:30 PM by 58-56.)
07-31-2016 10:29 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Free College and Realignment
(07-31-2016 04:12 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  It would affect athletics because if college is "free" then most states are going on o start shutting down a LOT of their smaller, regional schools in favor of their one or two flagship/land grants.

Some might be able to convert to private schools but most will be SOL.

Meanwhile the privates big and small will thrive since if you don't have the grades or political connections for the few "free" slots at public school, they are your only alternative and now cost 4x what they used to

Smaller, regional schools in rural areas would be in trouble. Urban public schools would be fine.

The model isn't 'away college' but rather live at home college. Schools like Stephen F Austin or Sul Ross State in Texas would be the most endangered. Schools like TAMU-CC, UTSA, etc. would do just fine.

Its far cheaper to afford college when you aren't paying to do so far away from where you live.
07-31-2016 10:31 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Free College and Realignment
(07-31-2016 10:31 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-31-2016 04:12 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  It would affect athletics because if college is "free" then most states are going on o start shutting down a LOT of their smaller, regional schools in favor of their one or two flagship/land grants.

Some might be able to convert to private schools but most will be SOL.

Meanwhile the privates big and small will thrive since if you don't have the grades or political connections for the few "free" slots at public school, they are your only alternative and now cost 4x what they used to

Smaller, regional schools in rural areas would be in trouble. Urban public schools would be fine.

The model isn't 'away college' but rather live at home college. Schools like Stephen F Austin or Sul Ross State in Texas would be the most endangered. Schools like TAMU-CC, UTSA, etc. would do just fine.

Its far cheaper to afford college when you aren't paying to do so far away from where you live.

City schools might make it but will likely be in the form of reduced students, reduced curriculum and being more like no frills European schools where you are assigned your major and study nothing else. No sports, no dorms, no rev centers etc. It's that or they convert to private.

The only schools that current students would recognize will be the one or two flagship/landgrants they keep open. And make no mistake, only a handful of public schools will still exist in each state if this passes
(This post was last modified: 08-01-2016 12:13 AM by 10thMountain.)
08-01-2016 12:10 AM
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ODU BLUE Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Free College and Realignment
(07-31-2016 10:31 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-31-2016 04:12 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  It would affect athletics because if college is "free" then most states are going on o start shutting down a LOT of their smaller, regional schools in favor of their one or two flagship/land grants.

Some might be able to convert to private schools but most will be SOL.

Meanwhile the privates big and small will thrive since if you don't have the grades or political connections for the few "free" slots at public school, they are your only alternative and now cost 4x what they used to

Smaller, regional schools in rural areas would be in trouble. Urban public schools would be fine.

Its far cheaper to afford college when you aren't paying to do so far away from where you live.

Any idea how many G5 schools would be affected? I can see at least one G5 conference going away, maybe two.
08-01-2016 05:27 AM
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ODU BLUE Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Free College and Realignment
Quote:Some Group of 5 programs, like Memphis, with support from large sports friendly corporations like Fed Ex will have a better chance to survive. Those without will be left twisting in the wind. Program exits could lead to a consolidation of the remaining programs into a Group of 3 or even 2. It will be a survival of the financially fittest in the short run, and a extinction level event in the long run. Unless the NCAA comes up with a way to save the Group of 5 from financial ruin these programs will go the way of the dinosaurs.

http://newuniversesports.sportsblog.com/...ences.html

With free college looming G5 athletics might turn to the private sector to foot the bill.
(This post was last modified: 08-01-2016 05:37 AM by ODU BLUE.)
08-01-2016 05:34 AM
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owl at the moon Offline
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Free College and Realignment
I would vote for free realignment :)
08-01-2016 05:43 AM
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ODU BLUE Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Free College and Realignment
(08-01-2016 05:43 AM)owl at the moon Wrote:  I would vote for free realignment :)

I don't think that's what the B12 has in mind.

[Image: bth_a8f139ac.gif]
08-01-2016 06:00 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Free College and Realignment
There are only X slots of total capacity in any state's overall public higher ed system. With free tuition likely increasing applications to attend ... how the heck does closing some of the schools in the system increase the capacity of the system????
08-01-2016 09:34 AM
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ODU BLUE Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Free College and Realignment
This will change everything for G5 athletic budgets and realignment

Bernie Sanders Introduces Hillary Clinton, Endorses Her "Debt-Free College" Plan

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2..._plan.html



09-29-2016 07:11 AM
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CardinalJim Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Free College and Realignment
I have said it for 30 years and I will continue to say it until the Lord calls me home. I also say it as a father who had two daughters and a son all graduate with advanced college degrees.

The value of a college education is greatly exaggerated. We do many of our young people a great dis-service by trying to channel every high school student into a college path. The honest fact is not every child is college material. When they fail, and many do, they are ill prepared for life after college. With no degree and no marketable skills the career prospects for these young people is dim at best.

Until our educators join the real world and start offering realistic vocational training to students like these then our system simply can not work. "The world needs ditch diggers too".
CJ
09-29-2016 08:20 AM
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FrancisDrake Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Free College and Realignment
(07-31-2016 09:46 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  I don't see how it would be relevant or have any impact on realignment/expansion.


That said:

**POLITICS WARNING**

those with enough money to pay for their children to attend public college should not get free public college.

So schools that can afford facilities, coaching salaries etc have to pay for it, those that can't will get subsidy. Idaho is going to be thrilled!
09-29-2016 08:53 AM
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Spinal070508 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Free College and Realignment
Nothing should be free. If you cannot afford something then you do not need it.
09-29-2016 09:01 AM
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Chappy Offline
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RE: Free College and Realignment
(09-29-2016 08:20 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I have said it for 30 years and I will continue to say it until the Lord calls me home. I also say it as a father who had two daughters and a son all graduate with advanced college degrees.

The value of a college education is greatly exaggerated. We do many of our young people a great dis-service by trying to channel every high school student into a college path. The honest fact is not every child is college material. When they fail, and many do, they are ill prepared for life after college. With no degree and no marketable skills the career prospects for these young people is dim at best.

Until our educators join the real world and start offering realistic vocational training to students like these then our system simply can not work. "The world needs ditch diggers too".
CJ

Well said.

And it's not just ditch diggers, but more skilled trades like plumbers, mechanics, repairmen (HVAC, etc).

Building up $100K in debt for a major outside of engineering, law, and medicine is going to do more harm than good. My oldest wants to be a dentist, I'm pushing her towards college. My middle child wants to be a photographer... a four-year college won't be worth the investment for her.
09-29-2016 09:05 AM
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Gamecock Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Free College and Realignment
I doubt it would affect athletic department that turn a profit and contribute to their schools academic fund.

This won't happen anyway, likely we will just see some minor student loan debt reforms under a Clinton administration.
09-29-2016 09:17 AM
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RE: Free College and Realignment
(09-29-2016 09:05 AM)Chappy Wrote:  
(09-29-2016 08:20 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I have said it for 30 years and I will continue to say it until the Lord calls me home. I also say it as a father who had two daughters and a son all graduate with advanced college degrees.

The value of a college education is greatly exaggerated. We do many of our young people a great dis-service by trying to channel every high school student into a college path. The honest fact is not every child is college material. When they fail, and many do, they are ill prepared for life after college. With no degree and no marketable skills the career prospects for these young people is dim at best.

Until our educators join the real world and start offering realistic vocational training to students like these then our system simply can not work. "The world needs ditch diggers too".
CJ

Well said.

And it's not just ditch diggers, but more skilled trades like plumbers, mechanics, repairmen (HVAC, etc).

Building up $100K in debt for a major outside of engineering, law, and medicine is going to do more harm than good. My oldest wants to be a dentist, I'm pushing her towards college. My middle child wants to be a photographer... a four-year college won't be worth the investment for her.

I agree with both of you. And I have a Ph.D. in business, lol.
09-29-2016 09:27 AM
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