upstater1
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RE: Ranking the candidates in order of who gives a crap
I know this is going to sound like an insult of the AAC teams, and it probably is, but at the level these schools draw fans and TV eyeballs for football, the football/basketball distinction doesn't hold.
For the SEC it is without a doubt football > basketball, and a few other conferences as well.
But the football averages we're talking about here are not above the basketball eyeballs and fans that a school like UConn brings. This will make a difference. All reports about Bevilaqua's presentation showed that UConn had the most pull--and CBS Sports's Neal Pilson (ex-Pres. of CBS) confirmed it afterward.
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07-28-2016 11:24 AM |
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UConnHusky
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RE: Ranking the candidates in order of who gives a crap
(07-28-2016 11:24 AM)upstater1 Wrote: I know this is going to sound like an insult of the AAC teams, and it probably is, but at the level these schools draw fans and TV eyeballs for football, the football/basketball distinction doesn't hold.
For the SEC it is without a doubt football > basketball, and a few other conferences as well.
But the football averages we're talking about here are not above the basketball eyeballs and fans that a school like UConn brings. This will make a difference. All reports about Bevilaqua's presentation showed that UConn had the most pull--and CBS Sports's Neal Pilson (ex-Pres. of CBS) confirmed it afterward.
Pilson keeps saying that if the Big 12 is smart, they have to take UConn. His numbers are all there to back it up.
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07-28-2016 11:35 AM |
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pesik
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RE: Ranking the candidates in order of who gives a crap
(07-28-2016 11:24 AM)upstater1 Wrote: I know this is going to sound like an insult of the AAC teams, and it probably is, but at the level these schools draw fans and TV eyeballs for football, the football/basketball distinction doesn't hold.
For the SEC it is without a doubt football > basketball, and a few other conferences as well.
But the football averages we're talking about here are not above the basketball eyeballs and fans that a school like UConn brings. This will make a difference. All reports about Bevilaqua's presentation showed that UConn had the most pull--and CBS Sports's Neal Pilson (ex-Pres. of CBS) confirmed it afterward.
thats not even remotely true
our top football games drew 3mil..i couldnt find regular season uconn tv rating but i did finnd the ratings for the "elite regular season games" of college basketball averaged less than 2 million viewers on cbs broadcast...houston had 2 football games over 3 million playing a aac teams..and note these were game like duke vs unc and im not sure the type of homerism you have but uconns ratings likely arent touching that
actually edit: i found the ratings for uconn top game last year.. uconn vs ohio state.. the total viewers on cbs was 1.350m
and im sure uconn has the most basketball pull, not a surprise to anyone
(This post was last modified: 07-28-2016 11:45 AM by pesik.)
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07-28-2016 11:41 AM |
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UConnHusky
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RE: Ranking the candidates in order of who gives a crap
(07-28-2016 11:41 AM)pesik Wrote: (07-28-2016 11:24 AM)upstater1 Wrote: I know this is going to sound like an insult of the AAC teams, and it probably is, but at the level these schools draw fans and TV eyeballs for football, the football/basketball distinction doesn't hold.
For the SEC it is without a doubt football > basketball, and a few other conferences as well.
But the football averages we're talking about here are not above the basketball eyeballs and fans that a school like UConn brings. This will make a difference. All reports about Bevilaqua's presentation showed that UConn had the most pull--and CBS Sports's Neal Pilson (ex-Pres. of CBS) confirmed it afterward.
thats not even remotely true
our top football games drew 3mil..i couldnt find regular season uconn tv rating but i did finnd the ratings for the "elite regular season games" of college basketball averaged less than 2 million viewers on cbs broadcast...houston had 2 football games over 3 million playing a aac teams..and note these were game like duke vs unc and im not sure the type of homerism you have but uconns ratings likely arent touching that
and im sure uconn has the most basketball pull, not a surprise to anyone
For the Big 12, it won't really matter if UConn is drawing eyeballs in football as long as their opponent is drawing eyeballs in football in UConn's market:
"Neal Pilson, a sports media consultant and former president of CBS Sports, “advised the Big 12 to take a page from the Big Ten’s playbook. Much as the Big Ten, a traditionally Midwestern league, recently added Rutgers and Maryland to plant its flag near several East Coast population centers, the Big 12, whose members reside in Great Plains states and Texas (and West Virginia), ought to invite Connecticut to join.”
The Times quoted Pilson here: “Having Texas and Oklahoma and the other major Big 12 schools playing in the Northeast would create additional revenue opportunities and make it a more attractive conference in terms of new sponsors and a better linear television deal,” he said.
http://www.theday.com/article/20160726/S.../160729428
EDIT: I should clarify that UConn's market WILL tune in for UConn regardless. I was just making a point. In addition, UConn would have drawn higher in football if we also had a Top 25 ranked football team last year, so that isn't really apples to apples.
(This post was last modified: 07-28-2016 11:56 AM by UConnHusky.)
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07-28-2016 11:49 AM |
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rosewater
Heisman
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RE: Ranking the candidates in order of who gives a crap
(07-28-2016 11:11 AM)pesik Wrote: (07-28-2016 11:03 AM)Sellular1 Wrote: Exactly. Cincy is the best of the BigEast STILL stuck on the short bus
thats a total of 3 teams..what does it matter if they were the best of the 3..cincy hasnt even showed its value in the AAC yet..
college football perception is based around what have you done for me now..and cincy has been medicore at best..
as far as an individual team lost next year its houston that brings the biggest loss in perception ...
a year ago it would have been ucf, Houston and cincy...all would have negatively impacted the leagues perception, but ucf and 0-12 killed any perception around them and cincy has lost more of its luster
if you lost cincy only, with houston a current elite and usf/ucf with potential, i dont think the league takes much of hit perception wise
if you lose houston only, the league isnt taking a death blow..but the "below mwc" perceptions comeback
Despite your insistance otherwise basketball does contribute to perception. Nothing screams g5 like houstons basketball attendance. A figure an early season loss and we can sa y the same about their football. You have gotten all the possible mileage out of your one year.
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07-28-2016 11:55 AM |
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derek78
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RE: Ranking the candidates in order of who gives a crap
(07-28-2016 11:16 AM)TripleA Wrote: All fan bases dislike all other schools that might go to the P5 before they do, or even compete with them to go. Human nature.
I had no issue with any critical comments towards UH.
I just thought the appearance of what the fanbase is composed of is quite amusing.
I grabbed an image off google of a section of fans from a football game.
As you can see the demographic makeup of this photo is surely opposite of what people imagine UH fans to be.
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/hou/...50909.jpeg
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07-28-2016 12:20 PM |
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No Bull
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RE: Ranking the candidates in order of who gives a crap
(07-28-2016 12:20 PM)derek78 Wrote: (07-28-2016 11:16 AM)TripleA Wrote: All fan bases dislike all other schools that might go to the P5 before they do, or even compete with them to go. Human nature.
I had no issue with any critical comments towards UH.
I just thought the appearance of what the fanbase is composed of is quite amusing.
I grabbed an image off google of a section of fans from a football game.
As you can see the demographic makeup of this photo is surely opposite of what people imagine UH fans to be.
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/hou/...50909.jpeg
uh-oh...looks like privileged folks...
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07-28-2016 12:23 PM |
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pesik
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RE: Ranking the candidates in order of who gives a crap
(07-28-2016 11:55 AM)rosewater Wrote: (07-28-2016 11:11 AM)pesik Wrote: (07-28-2016 11:03 AM)Sellular1 Wrote: Exactly. Cincy is the best of the BigEast STILL stuck on the short bus
thats a total of 3 teams..what does it matter if they were the best of the 3..cincy hasnt even showed its value in the AAC yet..
college football perception is based around what have you done for me now..and cincy has been medicore at best..
as far as an individual team lost next year its houston that brings the biggest loss in perception ...
a year ago it would have been ucf, Houston and cincy...all would have negatively impacted the leagues perception, but ucf and 0-12 killed any perception around them and cincy has lost more of its luster
if you lost cincy only, with houston a current elite and usf/ucf with potential, i dont think the league takes much of hit perception wise
if you lose houston only, the league isnt taking a death blow..but the "below mwc" perceptions comeback
Despite your insistance otherwise basketball does contribute to perception. Nothing screams g5 like houstons basketball attendance. A figure an early season loss and we can sa y the same about their football. You have gotten all the possible mileage out of your one year.
literally no one cares about bad basketball...basketball can only be a positive, not a negative in realignment
ie look at tcu...i doubt youd even notice their bball was in worse shape athletically and attendance wise than Houston when they were invited..people who are actually trashing houston because they dont want houston have said nothing about our basketball.. few actually mention our bball as a positive with the history
you can try to blowup something to be a bigger issue than it is to make yourself feel better
and one year..we have way more winning seasons that cincy in football...we have had down is our history but have had way more ups..
no one actually is predicting houston to beat oklahoma, 100% of them are picking houston to still be in the ny6..so i dont get your comment about lossing 1 game..
most of your comment is just your inner hater speaking..let the dark side reach into you..let logic fly out the window lol
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07-28-2016 12:24 PM |
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pesik
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RE: Ranking the candidates in order of who gives a crap
lol something interesting is that our basketball will likely be a selling point when its all said and done...espn is dropping a 30 for 30 special about the dominant phi slama jama right before the reported vote..
like "The U" and the "FAB 5" will likely paint Houston's bball as a force ..and will likely make a bigger perception impact that our attendance
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07-28-2016 12:28 PM |
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UCBEast
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RE: Ranking the candidates in order of who gives a crap
(07-28-2016 11:17 AM)UConnHusky Wrote: (07-28-2016 11:11 AM)pesik Wrote: (07-28-2016 11:03 AM)Sellular1 Wrote: Exactly. Cincy is the best of the BigEast STILL stuck on the short bus
thats a total of 3 teams..what does it matter if they were the est of the 3..cincy hasnt even showed its value in the AAC yet..
college football perception is based around what have you done for me now..and cicny has been medicore at best..
as far as an individual team lost next year it houston brings the biggest loss in perception ...
a year ago it would have been ucf, Houston and cincy...would have negatively impacted the leagues pereption, but ucf and 0-12 killed any perception around them and cincy has lost more of its luster
if you lost cincy only, with houston a current elite and usf/ucf with potential, i dont think the league takes much of hit perception wise
if you lose houston only, the league isnt taken a death blow..but the below mwc perceptions comeback
For sure. Losing Houston at the moment hurts more in football than losing Cincy.
Also, no offense to Cincy, but their history of losing in the big moment that is (was) a BCS bowl isn't any different than UConn's history in that regard.
Yeah? Well in the SB we dealt with an absent and newly ex-HC who lied to his player's face before the big game with sPitt that would determine the BE champ and possible 12-0 season; plus the *emotion* of Urbie's sudden death-throes to roust the troops. At least our loss was due to some extent that we didn't have a HC...
(This post was last modified: 07-28-2016 12:39 PM by UCBEast.)
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07-28-2016 12:36 PM |
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BearcatMan
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RE: Ranking the candidates in order of who gives a crap
(07-28-2016 11:20 AM)upstater1 Wrote: (07-28-2016 10:52 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: (07-28-2016 10:43 AM)UConnHusky Wrote: (07-28-2016 10:32 AM)Sellular1 Wrote: From an AAC perspective, what is the order you would place the top 4 schools being talked about going to the B12 from least impact to greatest impact on the future of the AAC?
1: BYU - Obviously no impact on the AAC. Hopefully another whacky religious school would further destabilize the B12 and expedite the conf demise.
2: MemphEx - If they left the AAC it might have a minor effect on the basketball perception of the AAC. The B12 would pick up another small school located in the armpit of America. Terrible academics. 3 winning football seasons in 10 years. Lost their head coach and only good Qb they ever had other than Wimprine.
3: Houston - Prolly should already be in B12 based on their redneck geography. UT needs another stepbrother to push around. Good football team. Was able to beat the 3rd place team from the ACC in their bowl game last season. Quality coach and facilities. If they leave the AAC it will definitely have an impact, but nobody really likes UH anyway.
4: Cincy - This would hurt the AAC the most. 9 winning seasons over the past 10 years which is better than any team in the league. 5 consecutive bowl games, also best in the AAC. No other AAC team packs their stadium as a % of capacity than Cincy. Was the flagship football program of the BigEast. Excellent basketball program as well. Most of their fans are tolerable.
Disagree. With no disrespect to Cincy, West Virginia was the flagship football program of the Big East.
Yep, I would probably put UC and UL on equal pegging in second behind WVU. Those Pat White/Steve Slaton years they were the talk of every sports page in America.
UL????
Did you forget Kragthorpe?
Louisville had a brutal 4 years with him. Took one year of mediocre Strong to turn it around. Louisville was 50% good in the BE.
Really, I would put Cincy at #2.
The middle of the conference, Louisville, USF, Pitt, Rutgers and UConn were closer to 50% and constantly up and down.
Syracuse and Temple were the stragglers for those 10 years.
I think the Brohm years and the Bridgewater years more than made up for the failed three years in the middle. They had much more national recognition than any other teams in the Big East outside of West Virginia. Cincinnati was really only supremely relevant for three years in the Big East, 2007, 2008, and 2009. Louisville had 6 good years, and West Virginia really didn't have a bad year.
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07-28-2016 01:05 PM |
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M1T4
Heisman
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RE: Ranking the candidates in order of who gives a crap
(07-28-2016 10:32 AM)Sellular1 Wrote: From an AAC perspective, what is the order you would place the top 4 schools being talked about going to the B12 from least impact to greatest impact on the future of the AAC?
1: BYU - Obviously no impact on the AAC. Hopefully another whacky religious school would further destabilize the B12 and expedite the conf demise.
2: MemphEx - If they left the AAC it might have a minor effect on the basketball perception of the AAC. The B12 would pick up another small school located in the armpit of America. Terrible academics. 3 winning football seasons in 10 years. Lost their head coach and only good Qb they ever had other than Wimprine.
3: Houston - Prolly should already be in B12 based on their redneck geography. UT needs another stepbrother to push around. Good football team. Was able to beat the 3rd place team from the ACC in their bowl game last season. Quality coach and facilities. If they leave the AAC it will definitely have an impact, but nobody really likes UH anyway.
4: Cincy - This would hurt the AAC the most. 9 winning seasons over the past 10 years which is better than any team in the league. 5 consecutive bowl games, also best in the AAC. No other AAC team packs their stadium as a % of capacity than Cincy. Was the flagship football program of the BigEast. Excellent basketball program as well. Most of their fans are tolerable.
You couldn't say at least 1 positive about Memphis?
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07-28-2016 01:12 PM |
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acc4life
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RE: Ranking the candidates in order of who gives a crap
(07-28-2016 10:32 AM)Sellular1 Wrote: 4: Cincy - Was the flagship football program of the BigEast.
That's a bit of a stretch.
WVU and Louisville would say different.
(This post was last modified: 07-28-2016 01:22 PM by acc4life.)
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07-28-2016 01:21 PM |
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rosewater
Heisman
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RE: Ranking the candidates in order of who gives a crap
(07-28-2016 12:24 PM)pesik Wrote: (07-28-2016 11:55 AM)rosewater Wrote: (07-28-2016 11:11 AM)pesik Wrote: (07-28-2016 11:03 AM)Sellular1 Wrote: Exactly. Cincy is the best of the BigEast STILL stuck on the short bus
thats a total of 3 teams..what does it matter if they were the best of the 3..cincy hasnt even showed its value in the AAC yet..
college football perception is based around what have you done for me now..and cincy has been medicore at best..
as far as an individual team lost next year its houston that brings the biggest loss in perception ...
a year ago it would have been ucf, Houston and cincy...all would have negatively impacted the leagues perception, but ucf and 0-12 killed any perception around them and cincy has lost more of its luster
if you lost cincy only, with houston a current elite and usf/ucf with potential, i dont think the league takes much of hit perception wise
if you lose houston only, the league isnt taking a death blow..but the "below mwc" perceptions comeback
Despite your insistance otherwise basketball does contribute to perception. Nothing screams g5 like houstons basketball attendance. A figure an early season loss and we can sa y the same about their football. You have gotten all the possible mileage out of your one year.
literally no one cares about bad basketball...basketball can only be a positive, not a negative in realignment
ie look at tcu...i doubt youd even notice their bball was in worse shape athletically and attendance wise than Houston when they were invited..people who are actually trashing houston because they dont want houston have said nothing about our basketball.. few actually mention our bball as a positive with the history
you can try to blowup something to be a bigger issue than it is to make yourself feel better
and one year..we have way more winning seasons that cincy in football...we have had down is our history but have had way more ups..
no one actually is predicting houston to beat oklahoma, 100% of them are picking houston to still be in the ny6..so i dont get your comment about lossing 1 game..
most of your comment is just your inner hater speaking..let the dark side reach into you..let logic fly out the window lol
Did any media forcast you to win the league last year. I would say no. How about the prior year. Again no. Other than last year did you finish ahead of cincy. No. Other than your one loss conference season and your win over 3rd place fla state what have you done. Houston does not equal tcu. You beat the second weakest seed. Tcu has been around for more than a cup of coffee. Not a hatet just tired of revisionist history.
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07-28-2016 01:22 PM |
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pesik
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RE: Ranking the candidates in order of who gives a crap
(07-28-2016 01:22 PM)rosewater Wrote: Did any media forcast you to win the league last year. I would say no. How about the prior year. Again no. Other than last year did you finish ahead of cincy. No. Other than your one loss conference season and your win over 3rd place fla state what have you done. Houston does not equal tcu. You beat the second weakest seed. Tcu has been around for more than a cup of coffee. Not a hatet just tired of revisionist history.
lmao, this post is pure bitterness
1) houston did have first place votes 2 seasons ago, houston received 1/5 of the first place projections even in the official AAC preseason poll... John okorn had just won freshmen of the year and espn dubbed him a Heisman candidate and 5 star greenberry at that preseason was projected a top 25 1st rd draft pick...
okorn ended up flopping but ward comes in
2) as for the rest of your post you can thoroughly believe that if you want and take it to the grave..i personally dont care...we are talking national perception and the opinion of the masses
0% of people who matter care that you had 1 more win than houston in 2014, what will affect perception is cincy getting blown out on national television in their bowl ..they will care that Houston had a historic bowl game comeback versus pit (something that was referenced in the oregon tcu bowl comeback this year)
you can sleep at night with a pillow that calls fsu the 3rd place ACC for all i care...the national perception is we beat a top 10 ranked blue blood team in college football
lol this was the biggest hater post ive read from you in a while.. while denting it and saying revisionist history when YOU changed history in your post
(This post was last modified: 07-28-2016 01:45 PM by pesik.)
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07-28-2016 01:41 PM |
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Westhoff123
Dr. Doom
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RE: Ranking the candidates in order of who gives a crap
No one cares about basketball when it comes to expansion.
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07-28-2016 01:58 PM |
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pesik
Legend
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RE: Ranking the candidates in order of who gives a crap
(07-28-2016 01:58 PM)Westhoff123 Wrote: No one cares about basketball when it comes to expansion.
it matters ..but i see it as a plus ...it can help but can't hurt
we have been top 5 in football for the last 5 years but only 1 person comes to our bball games
big 12: here's an invite
i see what you have in basketball as an " added it on top"
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07-28-2016 02:12 PM |
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TopperCard
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RE: Ranking the candidates in order of who gives a crap
(07-28-2016 11:20 AM)upstater1 Wrote: (07-28-2016 10:52 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: (07-28-2016 10:43 AM)UConnHusky Wrote: (07-28-2016 10:32 AM)Sellular1 Wrote: From an AAC perspective, what is the order you would place the top 4 schools being talked about going to the B12 from least impact to greatest impact on the future of the AAC?
1: BYU - Obviously no impact on the AAC. Hopefully another whacky religious school would further destabilize the B12 and expedite the conf demise.
2: MemphEx - If they left the AAC it might have a minor effect on the basketball perception of the AAC. The B12 would pick up another small school located in the armpit of America. Terrible academics. 3 winning football seasons in 10 years. Lost their head coach and only good Qb they ever had other than Wimprine.
3: Houston - Prolly should already be in B12 based on their redneck geography. UT needs another stepbrother to push around. Good football team. Was able to beat the 3rd place team from the ACC in their bowl game last season. Quality coach and facilities. If they leave the AAC it will definitely have an impact, but nobody really likes UH anyway.
4: Cincy - This would hurt the AAC the most. 9 winning seasons over the past 10 years which is better than any team in the league. 5 consecutive bowl games, also best in the AAC. No other AAC team packs their stadium as a % of capacity than Cincy. Was the flagship football program of the BigEast. Excellent basketball program as well. Most of their fans are tolerable.
Disagree. With no disrespect to Cincy, West Virginia was the flagship football program of the Big East.
Yep, I would probably put UC and UL on equal pegging in second behind WVU. Those Pat White/Steve Slaton years they were the talk of every sports page in America.
UL????
Did you forget Kragthorpe?
Louisville had a brutal 4 years with him. Took one year of mediocre Strong to turn it around. Louisville was 50% good in the BE.
Really, I would put Cincy at #2.
The middle of the conference, Louisville, USF, Pitt, Rutgers and UConn were closer to 50% and constantly up and down.
Syracuse and Temple were the stragglers for those 10 years.
1. Please don't ever mention HWSNBN ever again.
2. HWSNBN was here 3 years, not 4. And in that one year of "Mediocre" Strong, where he had to rebuild from absolutely nothing, we still went to, and won, a bowl game.
3. Cincy always had a strong team, but could never get it done in the big games. Louisville won two BCS bowls as a member of the Big East/AAC (Orange in 2007 and Sugar in 2013).
So I would say overall the league went like this:
WVU
Louisville
Cincy
everyone else
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07-28-2016 02:13 PM |
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shere khan
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Re: RE: Ranking the candidates in order of who gives a crap
(07-28-2016 02:13 PM)TopperCard Wrote: (07-28-2016 11:20 AM)upstater1 Wrote: (07-28-2016 10:52 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: (07-28-2016 10:43 AM)UConnHusky Wrote: (07-28-2016 10:32 AM)Sellular1 Wrote: From an AAC perspective, what is the order you would place the top 4 schools being talked about going to the B12 from least impact to greatest impact on the future of the AAC?
1: BYU - Obviously no impact on the AAC. Hopefully another whacky religious school would further destabilize the B12 and expedite the conf demise.
2: MemphEx - If they left the AAC it might have a minor effect on the basketball perception of the AAC. The B12 would pick up another small school located in the armpit of America. Terrible academics. 3 winning football seasons in 10 years. Lost their head coach and only good Qb they ever had other than Wimprine.
3: Houston - Prolly should already be in B12 based on their redneck geography. UT needs another stepbrother to push around. Good football team. Was able to beat the 3rd place team from the ACC in their bowl game last season. Quality coach and facilities. If they leave the AAC it will definitely have an impact, but nobody really likes UH anyway.
4: Cincy - This would hurt the AAC the most. 9 winning seasons over the past 10 years which is better than any team in the league. 5 consecutive bowl games, also best in the AAC. No other AAC team packs their stadium as a % of capacity than Cincy. Was the flagship football program of the BigEast. Excellent basketball program as well. Most of their fans are tolerable.
Disagree. With no disrespect to Cincy, West Virginia was the flagship football program of the Big East.
Yep, I would probably put UC and UL on equal pegging in second behind WVU. Those Pat White/Steve Slaton years they were the talk of every sports page in America.
UL????
Did you forget Kragthorpe?
Louisville had a brutal 4 years with him. Took one year of mediocre Strong to turn it around. Louisville was 50% good in the BE.
Really, I would put Cincy at #2.
The middle of the conference, Louisville, USF, Pitt, Rutgers and UConn were closer to 50% and constantly up and down.
Syracuse and Temple were the stragglers for those 10 years.
1. Please don't ever mention HWSNBN ever again.
2. HWSNBN was here 3 years, not 4. And in that one year of "Mediocre" Strong, where he had to rebuild from absolutely nothing, we still went to, and won, a bowl game.
3. Cincy always had a strong team, but could never get it done in the big games. Louisville won two BCS bowls as a member of the Big East/AAC (Orange in 2007 and Sugar in 2013).
So I would say overall the league went like this:
WVU
Louisville
Cincy
everyone else
That is why it was an awful football conference. Now the awfuless has been dumped on the aac with a smidge in the other conferences. The only old big east team to even be ranked much less nationally relevant is louiseville, and they are mediocre and wouldn't have won the aac. None have even sniffed an access bowl.
Without each other to beat up on and create an illusion of being good they are all below average football schools.
Facts hurt.
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07-28-2016 02:20 PM |
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ShockerBob
SHOCKERS
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RE: Ranking the candidates in order of who gives a crap
(07-28-2016 10:32 AM)Sellular1 Wrote: 3: Houston - Prolly should already be in B12 based on their redneck geography.
you say this hailing from Florida & Atlanta..
(This post was last modified: 07-28-2016 02:30 PM by ShockerBob.)
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07-28-2016 02:29 PM |
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