Open question...

In my younger days, I would visit the batting cage and make decent contact up to ~45mph...past that, all I could see was a white blur and I would just "swing at an area" and hope to make contact.

I have had many a discussion with those who have watched and played in HS and college who claim they can "see" the ball at those speeds. Obviously they can hit the ball more effectively than the average casual player, but do you think they actually have "faster eyes" than most?

It's something I've always wondered about.

To quote an unknown major leaguer: Given enough pitches, major league hitters can hit a 747. So yes, the pitch can be seen, Is there enough reaction time for the normal hitter? Unknown. An unknown umpire once said "Well, it sounded low."

(07-23-2016 08:06 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  Open question...

In my younger days, I would visit the batting cage and make decent contact up to ~45mph...past that, all I could see was a white blur and I would just "swing at an area" and hope to make contact.

I have had many a discussion with those who have watched and played in HS and college who claim they can "see" the ball at those speeds. Obviously they can hit the ball more effectively than the average casual player, but do you think they actually have "faster eyes" than most?

It's something I've always wondered about.

Eyes are the single most important part of hitting. Yes, I think great hitters have better vision. When you can see the spin on a ball at those speeds and know its a slider from side spin, a curveball from tumbling forward spin or a fastball due to backwards spin, those are some quick twitch synopse firing.

I batted against a future MLB all-star in high school. He was throwing in the low-mid 90's at that point. You see the ball but making contact is another thing. Hitting said ball solidly requires talent larger than I ever possessed.

I played a great deal of ball at a level equivalent to A ball. I saw some pretty good pitchers. I could see the ball but couldn't hit a curve. Good hitters say they have the ability to recognize a curve ball from a fast ball from the seams. A fastball supposedly looks "whiter" to a good hitter as opposed to a curve having a pinker look because of the seams spinning. I don't know that I can confirm that as I said I could not hit a curve ball. So obviously I was not able to see the "pink" ball. I had one player tell me that when the curve was coming he could see a pinkish spot in the muffle of the ball from the spinning seams.

Sounds plausible but there are very few who can say they have actually been able to see that.

(07-24-2016 08:14 AM)Bearcat Otto Wrote:  I played a great deal of ball at a level equivalent to A ball. I saw some pretty good pitchers. I could see the ball but couldn't hit a curve. Good hitters say they have the ability to recognize a curve ball from a fast ball from the seams. A fastball supposedly looks "whiter" to a good hitter as opposed to a curve having a pinker look because of the seams spinning. I don't know that I can confirm that as I said I could not hit a curve ball. So obviously I was not able to see the "pink" ball. I had one player tell me that when the curve was coming he could see a pinkish spot in the muffle of the ball from the spinning seams.

Sounds plausible but there are very few who can say they have actually been able to see that.

So...I thought this was interesting...this is the way the ball looks from the batters box at progressively higher speeds, topping out at 100mph. I have to confess...at top speed, I see very little...just a faint white blur.

Should watch that documentary Fastball on Netflix. Interviews with former players and goes through the physics and batter's perception of the ball.

(07-24-2016 08:14 AM)Bearcat Otto Wrote:  I played a great deal of ball at a level equivalent to A ball. I saw some pretty good pitchers. I could see the ball but couldn't hit a curve. Good hitters say they have the ability to recognize a curve ball from a fast ball from the seams. A fastball supposedly looks "whiter" to a good hitter as opposed to a curve having a pinker look because of the seams spinning. I don't know that I can confirm that as I said I could not hit a curve ball. So obviously I was not able to see the "pink" ball. I had one player tell me that when the curve was coming he could see a pinkish spot in the muffle of the ball from the spinning seams.

Sounds plausible but there are very few who can say they have actually been able to see that.

That's likely confabulation. No one can consciously "recognize" a 90 MPH fastball and still have enough time to hit it.

There was a great article in SI a few years ago about this. It's not just baseball players, but tennis players being able to return 140 MPH serves or cricket players being able to . . . do whatever they do, they are experts at predicting where a ball will go based on what they see the pitcher/server/cricket bowler do. The article talked about how softball pitcher Jennie Finch struck out Barry Bonds and ARod and a bunch of other all stars. Even though she was only throwing the equivalent of about 90 MPH with a bigger ball, the motion is so different that even the best baseball players aren't accustomed to it.

Found the article, if anyone is interested:
http://www.si.com/vault/2011/08/08/10609...ticipation

(07-24-2016 08:14 AM)Bearcat Otto Wrote:  I played a great deal of ball at a level equivalent to A ball. I saw some pretty good pitchers. I could see the ball but couldn't hit a curve. Good hitters say they have the ability to recognize a curve ball from a fast ball from the seams. A fastball supposedly looks "whiter" to a good hitter as opposed to a curve having a pinker look because of the seams spinning. I don't know that I can confirm that as I said I could not hit a curve ball. So obviously I was not able to see the "pink" ball. I had one player tell me that when the curve was coming he could see a pinkish spot in the muffle of the ball from the spinning seams.

Sounds plausible but there are very few who can say they have actually been able to see that.

The pink dot is the hallmark visual cue of the slider.

A 12-6 curve is a little harder because the visual of the seam spin is more like a four seam fastball, but in forward spin, not reverse. Reverse and forward spin are almost impossible to differentiate at speed.

One of the newest ways of teaching curve or fastball identification is what I call "fat wrist".

If the pitcher is throwing you a fastball, they will have their fingers and hand on top of and behind the ball facing towards you. The batter will see the wide part or "fat wrist".

If the pitcher is throwing you a curve or slider they will have their hand and fingers on the side of the ball as they come towards release - you will see the side or "thin wrist".

Seeing "Thin wrist" = do not swing (unless in a two strike count situation).

(07-27-2016 07:37 AM)Eastside_J Wrote:  

(07-24-2016 08:14 AM)Bearcat Otto Wrote:  I played a great deal of ball at a level equivalent to A ball. I saw some pretty good pitchers. I could see the ball but couldn't hit a curve. Good hitters say they have the ability to recognize a curve ball from a fast ball from the seams. A fastball supposedly looks "whiter" to a good hitter as opposed to a curve having a pinker look because of the seams spinning. I don't know that I can confirm that as I said I could not hit a curve ball. So obviously I was not able to see the "pink" ball. I had one player tell me that when the curve was coming he could see a pinkish spot in the muffle of the ball from the spinning seams.

Sounds plausible but there are very few who can say they have actually been able to see that.

The pink dot is the hallmark visual cue of the slider.

A 12-6 curve is a little harder because the visual of the seam spin is more like a four seam fastball, but in forward spin, not reverse. Reverse and forward spin are almost impossible to differentiate at speed.

One of the newest ways of teaching curve or fastball identification is what I call "fat wrist".

If the pitcher is throwing you a fastball, they will have their fingers and hand on top of and behind the ball facing towards you. The batter will see the wide part or "fat wrist".

If the pitcher is throwing you a curve or slider they will have their hand and fingers on the side of the ball as they come towards release - you will see the side or "thin wrist".

Seeing "Thin wrist" = do not swing (unless in a two strike count situation).

Can you see the pink dot at 100mph? If so, I'm impressed.

(07-27-2016 01:21 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  

(07-27-2016 07:37 AM)Eastside_J Wrote:  

(07-24-2016 08:14 AM)Bearcat Otto Wrote:  I played a great deal of ball at a level equivalent to A ball. I saw some pretty good pitchers. I could see the ball but couldn't hit a curve. Good hitters say they have the ability to recognize a curve ball from a fast ball from the seams. A fastball supposedly looks "whiter" to a good hitter as opposed to a curve having a pinker look because of the seams spinning. I don't know that I can confirm that as I said I could not hit a curve ball. So obviously I was not able to see the "pink" ball. I had one player tell me that when the curve was coming he could see a pinkish spot in the muffle of the ball from the spinning seams.

Sounds plausible but there are very few who can say they have actually been able to see that.

The pink dot is the hallmark visual cue of the slider.

A 12-6 curve is a little harder because the visual of the seam spin is more like a four seam fastball, but in forward spin, not reverse. Reverse and forward spin are almost impossible to differentiate at speed.

One of the newest ways of teaching curve or fastball identification is what I call "fat wrist".

If the pitcher is throwing you a fastball, they will have their fingers and hand on top of and behind the ball facing towards you. The batter will see the wide part or "fat wrist".

If the pitcher is throwing you a curve or slider they will have their hand and fingers on the side of the ball as they come towards release - you will see the side or "thin wrist".

Seeing "Thin wrist" = do not swing (unless in a two strike count situation).

Can you see the pink dot at 100mph? If so, I'm impressed.

You can't throw a slider 100 MPH. Or I should say no one ever has been able to.

Even the 100MPH pitchers only get their sliders up into the very low 90's.

When you hand is on the side of the ball you can't get quite the same push and whip as when your hand is behind and on top of the ball.

You plan for the fastball and react to the breaking pitch. As Eastside says the wrist or. Position of the fingers is the easiest way to distinguish the difference. Start your swing looking g for the fastball and adjust toto the curve or let it go depending on the count. The best hitters can foul off pitches they can't hit or are not in their zone. They also have the ability to wait on a curve and have the bat speed to hit it. I okayed a lot of sports. Hitting a baseball with consistency is the hardest thing in sports

Played not okayed.

(07-27-2016 02:27 PM)Eastside_J Wrote:  

(07-27-2016 01:21 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  

(07-27-2016 07:37 AM)Eastside_J Wrote:  

(07-24-2016 08:14 AM)Bearcat Otto Wrote:  I played a great deal of ball at a level equivalent to A ball. I saw some pretty good pitchers. I could see the ball but couldn't hit a curve. Good hitters say they have the ability to recognize a curve ball from a fast ball from the seams. A fastball supposedly looks "whiter" to a good hitter as opposed to a curve having a pinker look because of the seams spinning. I don't know that I can confirm that as I said I could not hit a curve ball. So obviously I was not able to see the "pink" ball. I had one player tell me that when the curve was coming he could see a pinkish spot in the muffle of the ball from the spinning seams.

Sounds plausible but there are very few who can say they have actually been able to see that.

The pink dot is the hallmark visual cue of the slider.

A 12-6 curve is a little harder because the visual of the seam spin is more like a four seam fastball, but in forward spin, not reverse. Reverse and forward spin are almost impossible to differentiate at speed.

One of the newest ways of teaching curve or fastball identification is what I call "fat wrist".

If the pitcher is throwing you a fastball, they will have their fingers and hand on top of and behind the ball facing towards you. The batter will see the wide part or "fat wrist".

If the pitcher is throwing you a curve or slider they will have their hand and fingers on the side of the ball as they come towards release - you will see the side or "thin wrist".

Seeing "Thin wrist" = do not swing (unless in a two strike count situation).

Can you see the pink dot at 100mph? If so, I'm impressed.

You can't throw a slider 100 MPH. Or I should say no one ever has been able to.

Even the 100MPH pitchers only get their sliders up into the very low 90's.

When you hand is on the side of the ball you can't get quite the same push and whip as when your hand is behind and on top of the ball.

I'm still impressed if you can see the pink dot at 90mph..it means that your eyes are faster than a video camera. I have trouble seeing much above 45mph.

My understanding is the batter goes into a count anticipating the next pitch. I think the first thing the batter looks for is the grip. Sometimes the pitcher telegraphs this by the way their wrist is positioned in their glove. If they can't see the grip before the pitch, they will at least see it at release and as a result will have a general idea of how it will move. I would think at 100 mph seeing white or pink or a pink dot would be very difficult to see and more difficult to react to, although some hitters can in today's game.