Frontcourt = Nate Thurmond, Steve Mix, Wayne Embry

Backcourt = Hal Greer, Manny Newsome


Coach = Harold "Andy" Anderson
Assistant = "Gentleman Jim " Snyder

Komives certainly belongs ahead of Newsome and Greer.

But I think you also need to quantify whether you're talking about NBA starters or MAC starters, or some combination of both.

Based on college-MAC careers only.

Ron Harper

Gary Trent won MAC POY 3 times.

(07-21-2016 08:14 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  Frontcourt = Nate Thurmond, Steve Mix, Wayne Embry

Backcourt = Hal Greer, Manny Newsome


Coach = Harold "Andy" Anderson
Assistant = "Gentleman Jim " Snyder

I think an argument can be made for Gary Trent over Steve Mix. Their career numbers are similar but PPG and particularly RPG were significantly inflated in the 60s. Add to that Trent's 3X MAC POY vs 1X for Mix and I think the vote sways towards Trent.

Ron Harper and Tom Kozelko are other guys that need to be considered.

(07-21-2016 10:40 AM)OUVan Wrote:  

(07-21-2016 08:14 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  Frontcourt = Nate Thurmond, Steve Mix, Wayne Embry

Backcourt = Hal Greer, Manny Newsome


Coach = Harold "Andy" Anderson
Assistant = "Gentleman Jim " Snyder

I think an argument can be made for Gary Trent over Steve Mix. Their career numbers are similar but PPG and particularly RPG were significantly inflated in the 60s. Add to that Trent's 3X MAC POY vs 1X for Mix and I think the vote sways towards Trent.

Ron Harper and Tom Kozelko are other guys that need to be considered.

This is an interesting question ... are you talking about (A) an all-star team ... or (B) a real cohesive team with more than offensive in mind ...

As an All-Star team ... C Nate Thurmond, PF Dan Roundfield, SF Ron Harper ... SG Howard Komives ... PG Hal Greeg

As a real unit --- I'd take the Earl Boykins-Derrick Dials tandem with the Kidd-MuCurdy forwards from Ball State and Thurmond ...

Just something to think about ...

my all-OU all-time starting 5 would like this-

G- DJ Cooper (NBA- 2013, N/A)
G- Walter Luckett (NBA- 1975, Round 2 Pick 27)
F- Dave Jamerson (NBA- 1990, Round 1 Pick 15)
F- Brandon Hunter (NBA- 2003, Round 2 Pick 56)
F- Gary Trent (NBA- 1995, Round 1 Pick 11)

for an all-MAC starting 5 I think there's a strong case for Cooper to be on it and any starting 5 without Trent is invalid.

(07-21-2016 07:26 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  my all-OU all-time starting 5 would like this-

G- DJ Cooper (NBA- 2013, N/A)
G- Walter Luckett (NBA- 1975, Round 2 Pick 27)
F- Dave Jamerson (NBA- 1990, Round 1 Pick 15)
F- Brandon Hunter (NBA- 2003, Round 2 Pick 56)
F- Gary Trent (NBA- 1995, Round 1 Pick 11)

for an all-MAC starting 5 I think there's a strong case for Cooper to be on it and any starting 5 without Trent is invalid.

GOTTA LOVE THAT OHIO PASSION ... but take a step back and remember that Dan Roundfield, Steve Mix, Ben Poquette and Grant Long, just to name a few, played in an era when the MAC truly had many other NBA players around the league ... For Trent, I believe the only MAC NBA players at that time actually played WITH Trent (Jamerson, and I believe a forward I can't remember) ...

This is not to say Trent doesn't belong on the list ... I'd vote for him ... I'm just saying some of these guys deserve a closer look and should not be easily dismissed ...

as for Cooper ... hold on to our seat, but good as he was - very good actually --- I would say there are at least a half dozen MAC PGs over the years better than him ... including Fred Cofield, Boykins, Antonio Daniels, Saddi Washington, Damon Frierson, Ray McCallum and I'm sure others even better than a few of these ... I might even take Billy Butts over him.

The MAC is a guards league, and as you say, there is a strong - and I would add relevant - case for Cooper ... But I'd guess there are a dozen 'strong cases' or more when it comes to that position.

Just look at past MAC POY PGs not even mentioned (Turner Battle, Andre Haynes and more)

(07-21-2016 08:02 PM)cleveland Wrote:  

(07-21-2016 07:26 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  my all-OU all-time starting 5 would like this-

G- DJ Cooper (NBA- 2013, N/A)
G- Walter Luckett (NBA- 1975, Round 2 Pick 27)
F- Dave Jamerson (NBA- 1990, Round 1 Pick 15)
F- Brandon Hunter (NBA- 2003, Round 2 Pick 56)
F- Gary Trent (NBA- 1995, Round 1 Pick 11)

for an all-MAC starting 5 I think there's a strong case for Cooper to be on it and any starting 5 without Trent is invalid.

GOTTA LOVE THAT OHIO PASSION ... but take a step back and remember that Dan Roundfield, Steve Mix, Ben Poquette and Grant Long, just to name a few, played in an era when the MAC truly had many other NBA players around the league ... For Trent, I believe the only MAC NBA players at that time actually played WITH Trent (Jamerson, and I believe a forward I can't remember) ...

This is not to say Trent doesn't belong on the list ... I'd vote for him ... I'm just saying some of these guys deserve a closer look and should not be easily dismissed ...

as for Cooper ... hold on to our seat, but good as he was - very good actually --- I would say there are at least a half dozen MAC PGs over the years better than him ... including Fred Cofield, Boykins, Antonio Daniels, Saddi Washington, Damon Frierson, Ray McCallum and I'm sure others even better than a few of these ... I might even take Billy Butts over him.

The MAC is a guards league, and as you say, there is a strong - and I would add relevant - case for Cooper ... But I'd guess there are a dozen 'strong cases' or more when it comes to that position.

Just look at past MAC POY PGs not even mentioned (Turner Battle, Andre Haynes and more)

Snoopy Graham was that forward, maybe?

I'm not old enough to have seen many of these previously mentioned guys play in college, but I'm surprised that nobody has even mentioned Wally Szczerbiak. He made 2nd team All-American and ended up getting drafted #6 overall.

(07-22-2016 08:02 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  I'm not old enough to have seen many of these previously mentioned guys play in college, but I'm surprised that nobody has even mentioned Wally Szczerbiak. He made 2nd team All-American and ended up getting drafted #6 overall.

That should tell you how good MAC basketball was at its peak ... Nobody has said anything about Dan Majerle, either, who would probably rank ahead of Wally, but likely behind one or two others ... trust me, I've seen most of these guys and back in the day, MAC BB was at the top of what would now be the Mid-Major food chain.

The very top.

To Major's point it is difficult to judge different era's. A lot of context to consider if you're honest about it. For years assists and blocks weren't counted let alone considered. Playing defense and against whom. Old enough to know and appreciate how tough a guard Adrian Dantley was? I understand he was Non-Con but playing him even for 2 years running vs. guarding Walter Luckett ... no comparison.

But the question begs more fun than honesty so I'll provide my biased 5.
C. Nate Thurmond
PF. Paul Griffin
SF Dan Roundfield
SG. Ron Harper
PG. Howie Komives

I'll do the Sarting Five I Most Feared Against Toledo: Thurmond, Harper, Boykins, Marjle and Roundfield. List is subject to change as other names float through the foggy halls of my memory.

(07-22-2016 02:31 PM)cleveland Wrote:  Nobody has said anything about Dan Majerle, either, who would probably rank ahead of Wally, but likely behind one or two others ...

Could be because Majerle is not considered CMU's all-time best.

That would be Roundfield, who is in MAC HOF (Thunder Dan is not).

(07-23-2016 07:24 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(07-22-2016 02:31 PM)cleveland Wrote:  Nobody has said anything about Dan Majerle, either, who would probably rank ahead of Wally, but likely behind one or two others ...

Could be because Majerle is not considered CMU's all-time best.

That would be Roundfield, who is in MAC HOF (Thunder Dan is not).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-Americ...f_the_Year

Just to illustrate a point ... There is an 11-year stretch between Kris Kamen (2003) and Justin Moss (2014) where I doubt ANY MAC POY would even get on the bench with some of the elite players being mentioned ... David Kool??? ... Mike Williams??? ... Mike Bramos ??? ... Al Fisher ??? ... Romeo Travis ??? ... Mitchell Watt ??? ...

The way the game is played now ... I think Moss and Antonio Campbell would have to be considered ... but it's doubtful even those players would have been elite back in the day. ...

Each fan base should put forth their best starting 5, and then we should debate who would win a playoff of these "best-of" teams.

(07-24-2016 07:05 PM)JohnnyMac Wrote:  Each fan base should put forth their best starting 5, and then we should debate who would win a playoff of these "best-of" teams.

Western Michigan:

PG - Saddi Washington
SG - Manny Newsome
SF - Gene Ford
PF - Paul Griffin
C - Tom Cutter

F Steve Mix
F Ken Epperson
C. Tom Kozelko
G. Larry Jones
G. Juice Brown

There will be much disagreement among Rocket fans, esp choosing Juice over Tim Rieser.

(07-26-2016 07:05 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(07-24-2016 07:05 PM)JohnnyMac Wrote:  Each fan base should put forth their best starting 5, and then we should debate who would win a playoff of these "best-of" teams.

Western Michigan:

PG - Saddi Washington
SG - Manny Newsome
SF - Gene Ford
PF - Paul Griffin
C - Tom Cutter

All good but MAC POY in '76 Jeff Tyson instead of Saddi Washington.
Manny could handle PG and Tys would be your SG.