http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/20/upshot....html?_r=0

Quote:That policy would also be a financial disaster. Any public university president with an ounce of sense would simply raise annual tuition by $5,000 or $10,000 or more, secure in the knowledge that Uncle Sam would foot the bill. It would be an unlimited bonanza for colleges and a huge drain on the Treasury, for a program already estimated to costs tens of billions of dollars per year.

Bingo. Although this is already happening to an extent now, with the deep troughs of student loans. It's the college version of the housing market pre-2008.

Here's the thing with "free" college (and I obviously use that term loosely)...

I don't support a plan of "free for all" health care. But I understand the opposing argument put forth that we're talking life-and-death type stuff there, i.e. health care being a need as opposed to a want. So even if I see problems in the details, I get some of the rationale behind it. But while college is highly beneficial and things can be done to make it more affordable, it is not a need. Some people are just not interested in or cut out for 4+ more years of books and lectures, and there is no reason to twist their arms to go to State U. It's not a situation where we need to say (Oprah style), "you get a degree, you get a degree, everyone gets a degree!"

(07-19-2016 07:33 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/20/upshot....html?_r=0

Quote:That policy would also be a financial disaster. Any public university president with an ounce of sense would simply raise annual tuition by $5,000 or $10,000 or more, secure in the knowledge that Uncle Sam would foot the bill. It would be an unlimited bonanza for colleges and a huge drain on the Treasury, for a program already estimated to costs tens of billions of dollars per year.

Bingo. Although this is already happening to an extent now, with the deep troughs of student loans. It's the college version of the housing market pre-2008.

Here's the thing with "free" college (and I obviously use that term loosely)...

I don't support a plan of "free for all" health care. But I understand the opposing argument put forth that we're talking life-and-death type stuff there, i.e. health care being a need as opposed to a want. So even if I see problems in the details, I get some of the rationale behind it. But while college is highly beneficial and things can be done to make it more affordable, it is not a need. Some people are just not interested in or cut out for 4+ more years of books and lectures, and there is no reason to twist their arms to go to State U. It's not a situation where we need to say (Oprah style), "you get a degree, you get a degree, everyone gets a degree!"

The other thing that makes health care and college different...

Everyone being healthy does not diminish the value of my health but everyone having a four year degree does devaule a four year degree.

The better patch is to fix K12 by (1) making it more difficult to slide by graduate without meeting proper standards and (2) making some arrangements for folks who might need a couple of extra years.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/08/about-...y-college/

Approximately 80 percent of NYC high school grads can’t read well enough for community college

It's just Hillary saying whatever to try to get votes.

This is selling our young people short. They are capable of tackling college curriculum in high school and junior high. Re-organized the secondary schools so that college is unnecessary for a career. My cousin had an associates degree coming out of high school and graduated with a BS 18 months out of high school by the age of 19.

(07-19-2016 11:00 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  This is selling our young people short. They are capable of tackling college curriculum in high school and junior high. Re-organized the secondary schools so that college is unnecessary for a career. My cousin had an associates degree coming out of high school and graduated with a BS 18 months out of high school by the age of 19.

Minnesota actually has a really nice program for this. It let's kids take PSEO classes in the 11th and 12th grade. Not "AP" work but actual college classes.

When my kids were 5/6 we signed them up for Piano lessons with young woman at our church. She was a junior in HS at the time and taking mostly PSEO classes. I think she graduated from HS with three semesters or so worth of course work and a big wad of cash from two years of teaching Piano.

I think she graduated with her BS in two years and very little debt.

One of my kids is a grade ahead in everyting and the other is a year up in Math so when they get to the 9th grade I plan to get them in at least one college course.

It is not going to happen any more that the wall being built.

If you work and pay your taxes and some of your tax dollars go to the colleges and universities? It is not free. You are still paying money to the government to fund these schools.

(07-19-2016 11:27 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(07-19-2016 11:00 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  This is selling our young people short. They are capable of tackling college curriculum in high school and junior high. Re-organized the secondary schools so that college is unnecessary for a career. My cousin had an associates degree coming out of high school and graduated with a BS 18 months out of high school by the age of 19.

Minnesota actually has a really nice program for this. It let's kids take PSEO classes in the 11th and 12th grade. Not "AP" work but actual college classes.

When my kids were 5/6 we signed them up for Piano lessons with young woman at our church. She was a junior in HS at the time and taking mostly PSEO classes. I think she graduated from HS with three semesters or so worth of course work and a big wad of cash from two years of teaching Piano.

I think she graduated with her BS in two years and very little debt.

One of my kids is a grade ahead in everyting and the other is a year up in Math so when they get to the 9th grade I plan to get them in at least one college course.

Similar thing in NC and we have a huge Comm College system in which any kid can get the same first 2 years of college at a tiny fraction of the cost. If these kids are concerned about the high cost of a 4 year degree there are already alternatives. Additionally NC has 16 subsidized universities that offer just about any degree track one could want...much cheaper than privates.

(07-20-2016 02:25 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  If you work and pay your taxes and some of your tax dollars go to the colleges and universities? It is not free. You are still paying money to the government to fund these schools.

Politicians just use the word "free" because so many people are stupid enough to believe it is true.

I think it was high school I learned there was "no such thing as a free lunch". I guess that isn't taught any longer.

(07-19-2016 11:27 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(07-19-2016 11:00 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  This is selling our young people short. They are capable of tackling college curriculum in high school and junior high. Re-organized the secondary schools so that college is unnecessary for a career. My cousin had an associates degree coming out of high school and graduated with a BS 18 months out of high school by the age of 19.

Minnesota actually has a really nice program for this. It let's kids take PSEO classes in the 11th and 12th grade. Not "AP" work but actual college classes.

When my kids were 5/6 we signed them up for Piano lessons with young woman at our church. She was a junior in HS at the time and taking mostly PSEO classes. I think she graduated from HS with three semesters or so worth of course work and a big wad of cash from two years of teaching Piano.

I think she graduated with her BS in two years and very little debt.

One of my kids is a grade ahead in everyting and the other is a year up in Math so when they get to the 9th grade I plan to get them in at least one college course.

Exactly! Programs like this in conjunction with community colleges and year round schooling are the answer. Kids lose so much over the summer. School has become a babysitting service for working parents leading to other kids raising your kid.

Which is cheaper, paying for your own education IF you choose to go to college, a debt that you will eventually be free of or paying for everyone else's, even if you choose not to go yourself, forever.

Neither is free but one is closer than the other.

Basic rule of behavioral economics is that people assign value according to its real and perceived cost.

(07-19-2016 07:33 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/20/upshot....html?_r=0

Quote:That policy would also be a financial disaster. Any public university president with an ounce of sense would simply raise annual tuition by $5,000 or $10,000 or more, secure in the knowledge that Uncle Sam would foot the bill. It would be an unlimited bonanza for colleges and a huge drain on the Treasury, for a program already estimated to costs tens of billions of dollars per year.

Bingo. Although this is already happening to an extent now, with the deep troughs of student loans. It's the college version of the housing market pre-2008.

Here's the thing with "free" college (and I obviously use that term loosely)...

I don't support a plan of "free for all" health care. But I understand the opposing argument put forth that we're talking life-and-death type stuff there, i.e. health care being a need as opposed to a want. So even if I see problems in the details, I get some of the rationale behind it. But while college is highly beneficial and things can be done to make it more affordable, it is not a need. Some people are just not interested in or cut out for 4+ more years of books and lectures, and there is no reason to twist their arms to go to State U. It's not a situation where we need to say (Oprah style), "you get a degree, you get a degree, everyone gets a degree!"

When they say "free college", they don't mean paying whatever tuition the colleges set. They mean making the colleges accept whatever tuition THEY set.

It's ultimately about revolutionizing and federalizing the US university system. With money comes control.

In case you haven't noticed, efforts to federalize health care, policing, education, and most everything else are always ongoing.