Ambivalence at Apogee: UNT’s attendance falters as hopes of success go unrealized


By Brett Vito

Staff Writer

bvito@dentonrc.com

Published: 17 July 2016 11:32 PM
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Steven King was among thousands of North Texas fans who banded together to help make the dream of a new football stadium at the school a reality five years ago.

UNT desperately needed to replace Fouts Field and sold donors on the benefits of purchasing high-dollar seats, including some in an exclusive club level.

King paid a $12,000 fee over five years for two club seats and watched as Apogee Stadium emerged from the grounds of a rundown golf course before opening in 2011.

King, who works in management for an industrial battery manufacturer, and a host of other UNT fans are divided. Some believe their seat licenses were worth the cost, while others have elected not to renew their seats....


Houston opened TDECU Stadium, its $125 million venue, in 2014, while Louisiana Tech opened the Davison Athletics Complex, a $22 million end zone facility, in 2015. Rice will open the Brian Patterson Sports Performance Center, its $31.5 million end zone facility, this fall.

UNT is looking for the funds to keep improving what it has to work with to avoid being left behind.

http://www.dentonrc.com/sports/sports-he...alized.ece

Damn. I thought Rice had it bad. It must be incredibly disappointing to have so little to show for that investment. I think people were very excited about McCarney. I didn't expect him to fall on his face like he did.

(07-18-2016 01:56 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  Damn. I thought Rice had it bad. It must be incredibly disappointing to have so little to show for that investment. I think people were very excited about McCarney. I didn't expect him to fall on his face like he did.

It was the infatuation with grey goose and laziness...

What can you say?{shrugs shoulders} The only thing that could have helped(viewed as an outsider) was to have fired Villareal a year or two sooner.Also maybe marketing director should have been fired sooner.




*FIRE RAY WATTS
*FIRE TONY BENFORD
*FIRE CHUCK LANDON

There is little margin for error in the G5 and especially in metropolitan areas.

(07-18-2016 01:56 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  Damn. I thought Rice had it bad. It must be incredibly disappointing to have so little to show for that investment. I think people were very excited about McCarney. I didn't expect him to fall on his face like he did.

People were not only fed up with Mac, they were tired of the old AD and the administration that let him stay for 15 years with terrible results the last 10 of those years.

Making the right AD hire will show the fans the school is finally ready to make a real commitment to athletics, and not just consider it a box that needs to be checked for any school in Texas, then I think you will see support explode.

win

(07-24-2016 11:18 AM)Cerebus Wrote:  

(07-18-2016 01:56 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  Damn. I thought Rice had it bad. It must be incredibly disappointing to have so little to show for that investment. I think people were very excited about McCarney. I didn't expect him to fall on his face like he did.

People were not only fed up with Mac, they were tired of the old AD and the administration that let him stay for 15 years with terrible results the last 10 of those years.

Making the right AD hire will show the fans the school is finally ready to make a real commitment to athletics, and not just consider it a box that needs to be checked for any school in Texas, then I think you will see support explode.

north Texas state already spends $20 million from the academic side on athletics which is 64% of the total budget

this at a time that the student to faculty ratio is dramatically rising and the number of tenure and tenure track full time professors is dropping

the student to faculty ratio has climbed to 29-1

and average tuition and fees are the 3rd highest in the state only behind UTD and UH

so how much more of a commitment do you expect from the university itself

(07-25-2016 04:05 PM)ATTALLABLAZE Wrote:  win

*Sustained winning. 2009 we went 10-3 and still only had 2 games over 23,000. Next year (6-7) also had 2 with 26,000+ but went quickly back to crap crowds.

(07-25-2016 06:15 PM)Ole Blue Wrote:  

(07-25-2016 04:05 PM)ATTALLABLAZE Wrote:  win

*Sustained winning. 2009 we went 10-3 and still only had 2 games over 23,000. Next year (6-7) also had 2 with 26,000+ but went quickly back to crap crowds.

Same thing happened to Rice after our CUSA champ in 2013 (and after our Texas Bowl win back in 2008 (10-3, 7-1)). If you don't sustain in a G5, it means little to nothing. Boise and TCU provide the models in G5: sustain winning at high levels, dominate your conference, and win more than a few of your OOC games against P5s even if on the road.

Only 3900 season tickets and less that 14k home average. Unbelievable. Especially when it wasn't long ago they had 30k at the Cotton bowl for the bowl game. The good and bad of being in, (or just north) of the Metroplex is that winning brings lots of potential fans, but if your losing there are plenty of other teams to support and things to do.

(07-25-2016 08:44 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(07-25-2016 06:15 PM)Ole Blue Wrote:  

(07-25-2016 04:05 PM)ATTALLABLAZE Wrote:  win

*Sustained winning. 2009 we went 10-3 and still only had 2 games over 23,000. Next year (6-7) also had 2 with 26,000+ but went quickly back to crap crowds.

Same thing happened to Rice after our CUSA champ in 2013 (and after our Texas Bowl win back in 2008 (10-3, 7-1)). If you don't sustain in a G5, it means little to nothing. Boise and TCU provide the models in G5: sustain winning at high levels, dominate your conference, and win more than a few of your OOC games against P5s even if on the road.

But was that announced attendance or actual butts? From the two years Western's been in CUSA Rice's 20k are more like 2. So I assume that's more than likely the norm with Rice?

How many day games has UNT played in the last 2-3 years (especially for TV)?

IMHO that is factor #1a to #1 (winning). No one likes to sit in the noon sun in 90+ heat for 3 hours. Its an attendance killer.

Everyone talks about potential and frankly everyone has it. I truly believe Tech can sell out it's stadium even though it's a small school in a small market. There are two methods to do it.
1. Southern Miss
2. Boise State

You can build a winning tradition over 10-15 years of steady success or you can build a winning tradition over a few short years with wildly successful seasons.
The bad news for both of those methods is once the winning stops things can drop off quickly.

There are of course other things you can do to help attendance. Quality scheduling, gameday experience improvements etc, but the main point is people want to see a winner.

(07-26-2016 09:28 AM)DETLTU Wrote:  Everyone talks about potential and frankly everyone has it. I truly believe Tech can sell out it's stadium even though it's a small school in a small market. There are two methods to do it.
1. Southern Miss
2. Boise State

You can build a winning tradition over 10-15 years of steady success or you can build a winning tradition over a few short years with wildly successful seasons.
The bad news for both of those methods is once the winning stops things can drop off quickly.

There are of course other things you can do to help attendance. Quality scheduling, gameday experience improvements etc, but the main point is people want to see a winner.

This!

(07-25-2016 08:59 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(07-25-2016 08:44 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(07-25-2016 06:15 PM)Ole Blue Wrote:  

(07-25-2016 04:05 PM)ATTALLABLAZE Wrote:  win

*Sustained winning. 2009 we went 10-3 and still only had 2 games over 23,000. Next year (6-7) also had 2 with 26,000+ but went quickly back to crap crowds.

Same thing happened to Rice after our CUSA champ in 2013 (and after our Texas Bowl win back in 2008 (10-3, 7-1)). If you don't sustain in a G5, it means little to nothing. Boise and TCU provide the models in G5: sustain winning at high levels, dominate your conference, and win more than a few of your OOC games against P5s even if on the road.

But was that announced attendance or actual butts? From the two years Western's been in CUSA Rice's 20k are more like 2. So I assume that's more than likely the norm with Rice?

Glad someone else said it so i didn't have to. Rice has never had good attendance as long as i have followed cusa and been familiar with them.

(07-27-2016 07:21 AM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  

(07-25-2016 08:59 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(07-25-2016 08:44 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(07-25-2016 06:15 PM)Ole Blue Wrote:  

(07-25-2016 04:05 PM)ATTALLABLAZE Wrote:  win

*Sustained winning. 2009 we went 10-3 and still only had 2 games over 23,000. Next year (6-7) also had 2 with 26,000+ but went quickly back to crap crowds.

Same thing happened to Rice after our CUSA champ in 2013 (and after our Texas Bowl win back in 2008 (10-3, 7-1)). If you don't sustain in a G5, it means little to nothing. Boise and TCU provide the models in G5: sustain winning at high levels, dominate your conference, and win more than a few of your OOC games against P5s even if on the road.

But was that announced attendance or actual butts? From the two years Western's been in CUSA Rice's 20k are more like 2. So I assume that's more than likely the norm with Rice?

Glad someone else said it so i didn't have to. Rice has never had good attendance as long as i have followed cusa and been familiar with them.

That has been said many times and Rice fans have stated that the vast majority of their fans sit on the side that the cameras don't view. I have seen at least a couple of instances where that was true. On tv you think almost no one is there but in person you see a good crowd on the other side of the field.

(07-27-2016 07:37 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  

(07-27-2016 07:21 AM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  

(07-25-2016 08:59 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(07-25-2016 08:44 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(07-25-2016 06:15 PM)Ole Blue Wrote:  *Sustained winning. 2009 we went 10-3 and still only had 2 games over 23,000. Next year (6-7) also had 2 with 26,000+ but went quickly back to crap crowds.

Same thing happened to Rice after our CUSA champ in 2013 (and after our Texas Bowl win back in 2008 (10-3, 7-1)). If you don't sustain in a G5, it means little to nothing. Boise and TCU provide the models in G5: sustain winning at high levels, dominate your conference, and win more than a few of your OOC games against P5s even if on the road.

But was that announced attendance or actual butts? From the two years Western's been in CUSA Rice's 20k are more like 2. So I assume that's more than likely the norm with Rice?

Glad someone else said it so i didn't have to. Rice has never had good attendance as long as i have followed cusa and been familiar with them.

That has been said many times and Rice fans have stated that the vast majority of their fans sit on the side that the cameras don't view. I have seen at least a couple of instances where that was true. On tv you think almost no one is there but in person you see a good crowd on the other side of the field.

I second this. I've been to this stadium a few times, and every time, it looked completely empty on one side and one endzone, but on the other side and in the upper decks there have been at least 18k+. In the relatively small sample size, I'd have to say the Rice games I've been to have had equal or greater crowds than UNT games (save UH '11 and UTEP '13).
20k can easily get lost in a stadium that is large enough to hold over 70k; I'm sure UAB fans understand this phenomenon

There is some truth to both sides...

We don't have very good attendance, but the camera issue magnifies the problem.

Last season we had pretty good attendance for Army, USM (most left at halftime but can't blame them for that), and Wagner.

We had OK attendance for WKU (a lot left early given the score).

Pretty bad attendance for LA Tech.

Really, really, really awful attendance for Charlotte. Probably less than 3k in the stands. Neither team had anything to play for and it was cold/rainy.

NT has had three major factors leading to dwindling bad luck -- losing, quality of opponent, and schduling problems.

Throughout the history of Apogee, UNT has been terrible outside of 2013. Only UH and Indiana were any kind of marquee opponent brought in. A couple of games have been put at really difficult times - weekday game on Halloween when the team sucked, 11am scalding hot games to open the year, etc. Also homecoming on the same Saturday as the Red River Shootout 45 min south in Dallas. Add to that the 2011 season the Rangers were good and their playoff run coincided with some NT home games. A LCS and WS game coincided with NT home games. Ugh.