UNT in facilities battle five years after Apogee opened



By Brett Vito

Staff Writer

bvito@dentonrc.com

Published: 16 July 2016 08:59 PM

EDITOR’S NOTE: North Texas will reach the five-year anniversary of its first game at Apogee Stadium this fall. Over the next three days, the Denton Record-Chronicle will examine the state of UNT’s program as it reaches a milestone that coincides with a critical point in program history. Today’s story focuses on the facilities arms race among UNT and the schools it competes with in the region.

Optimism about North Texas’ athletic program reached new heights on a warm summer afternoon in 2011 when the school announced a naming rights deal for its brand-new football stadium.



Louisiana Tech, Rice and Houston are among the schools that have responded with major facility upgrades since UNT opened Apogee, which hasn’t made the impact that school officials and fans hoped it might.

http://www.dentonrc.com/sports/sports-he...-is-on.ece

You have 37,000 students and averaged 13,000 a game last season?

Something is not right.

(07-17-2016 03:59 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  You have 37,000 students and averaged 13,000 a game last season?

Something is not right.

A bad athletic director, combined with a 1-11 season, including a loss to an FCS team, will do that to a fan base.

North Texas does have over 37,000 students, and over 300,000 alumni in the region. Denton county has a population of over 800,000 people. If Littrell builds us a winner, we can sell out Apogee on a regular basis.

"UNT sold 3,900 season tickets for the 2015 season, according to school officials. A study conducted by UAB listed UNT’s season ticket sales for the 2014 season at 4,285. That total ranked 13th out of the 14 teams in C-USA, ahead of only Rice."

(07-17-2016 06:48 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  "UNT sold 3,900 season tickets for the 2015 season, according to school officials. A study conducted by UAB listed UNT’s season ticket sales for the 2014 season at 4,285. That total ranked 13th out of the 14 teams in C-USA, ahead of only Rice."

The 4,285 season tickets sold following our 2013 HOD Bowl win is simply embarrassing, and RV should have been let go just based on his lack of ability to sell more tickets. In addition to that, savvy North Texas fans revolted after McCarney failed to bring a real FBS caliber QB to campus, and forced McNulty down our throats by naming him the starter for the 2015 season. The embarrassment against Portland State was the last straw for the people with deep pockets. The house cleaning started right after the game, and won't be finished until the next AD is hired and hires his new staff and cans Benford.

Stay tuned.

Expectations I'm sure were high with that new stadium going into CUSA.

The move to CUSA unfortunately has fallen flat when WKU, MTSU, FAU, ODU and Charlotte were all added to it. This is not what UNT signed up for.

UNT should be scheduling more B12 in the non-conference. Money games at Tech, TCU and Baylor, Oklahoma St instead of Wisconsin, Florida, Iowa ect. The key is to schedule games your alumni can get to building interest.

You also need a coaching style that fits the type of players UNT normally would recruit. That is what TCU has with Gary Patterson a guy who was a former lineman who has built a program with the lines.

Good programs have good chemistry from the conference fit to the non-conference to the coaching philosophy.

(07-17-2016 04:21 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(07-17-2016 03:59 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  You have 37,000 students and averaged 13,000 a game last season?

Something is not right.

A bad athletic director, combined with a 1-11 season, including a loss to an FCS team, will do that to a fan base.

North Texas does have over 37,000 students, and over 300,000 alumni in the region. Denton county has a population of over 800,000 people. If Littrell builds us a winner, we can sell out Apogee on a regular basis.

Make that a lost to an FCS almost more than 60 points. North Texas holds the record for the worst lost to an FCS team.

(07-18-2016 12:40 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Expectations I'm sure were high with that new stadium going into CUSA.

The move to CUSA unfortunately has fallen flat when WKU, MTSU, FAU, ODU and Charlotte were all added to it. This is not what UNT signed up for.

UNT should be scheduling more B12 in the non-conference. Money games at Tech, TCU and Baylor, Oklahoma St instead of Wisconsin, Florida, Iowa ect. The key is to schedule games your alumni can get to building interest.

You also need a coaching style that fits the type of players UNT normally would recruit. That is what TCU has with Gary Patterson a guy who was a former lineman who has built a program with the lines.

Good programs have good chemistry from the conference fit to the non-conference to the coaching philosophy.

So your solution to people not showing up because the team is terrible is go out of their way to ensure they will lose their OOC games? Money is not the issue here and you can't keep blaming it on the teams they play. When they were in the SBC they always wanted more Texas teams and now they have three and are still bad.

I think there is a more obvious and simple answer. Maybe the people of Denton just are not interested in UNT football? Could you blame them when you have the Cowboys and TCU near by?

(07-18-2016 08:14 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(07-18-2016 12:40 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Expectations I'm sure were high with that new stadium going into CUSA.

The move to CUSA unfortunately has fallen flat when WKU, MTSU, FAU, ODU and Charlotte were all added to it. This is not what UNT signed up for.

UNT should be scheduling more B12 in the non-conference. Money games at Tech, TCU and Baylor, Oklahoma St instead of Wisconsin, Florida, Iowa ect. The key is to schedule games your alumni can get to building interest.

You also need a coaching style that fits the type of players UNT normally would recruit. That is what TCU has with Gary Patterson a guy who was a former lineman who has built a program with the lines.

Good programs have good chemistry from the conference fit to the non-conference to the coaching philosophy.

So your solution to people not showing up because the team is terrible is go out of their way to ensure they will lose their OOC games? Money is not the issue here and you can't keep blaming it on the teams they play. When they were in the SBC they always wanted more Texas teams and now they have three and are still bad.

I think there is a more obvious and simple answer. Maybe the people of Denton just are not interested in UNT football? Could you blame them when you have the Cowboys and TCU near by?

Plus with Baylor, SMU, Midwestern State and now Texas Wesleyan in the area as well.

I really liked UNT's stadium. Except for the end zone.

Building new stadiums helped Utah, Rutgers and Louisville reach the promised land. They were the "first adopters" building stadiums between 1994 and 1998 after a long lull in college stadium building.

Helped UCF, Houston, UConn stay competitive or become more competitive. Those schools made bowls 14 out off 24 seasons in their new stadiums and combined to win 5 conference titles. Each advanced to a BCS/NY6 bowl.

Hasn't really helped SMU, Akron, North Texas, Florida Atlantic, Tulane or Charlotte. Those schools have gone to a combined 6 bowls in 38 seasons in their new stadiums. June Jones taking SMU to 4 straight minor bowls is the lone bright spot for those six schools in their new stadiums.

The main difference? SMU, Akron, North Texas, Florida Atlantic, Tulane and Charlotte draw an "announced" 15K-22K per game. The attendance range at Louisville, Utah, Rutgers, UConn, UCF and Houston is double that.

By itself, building a stadium is not a magic cure for a football program. You need a fan base too.

(07-18-2016 08:14 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(07-18-2016 12:40 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Expectations I'm sure were high with that new stadium going into CUSA.

The move to CUSA unfortunately has fallen flat when WKU, MTSU, FAU, ODU and Charlotte were all added to it. This is not what UNT signed up for.

UNT should be scheduling more B12 in the non-conference. Money games at Tech, TCU and Baylor, Oklahoma St instead of Wisconsin, Florida, Iowa ect. The key is to schedule games your alumni can get to building interest.

You also need a coaching style that fits the type of players UNT normally would recruit. That is what TCU has with Gary Patterson a guy who was a former lineman who has built a program with the lines.

Good programs have good chemistry from the conference fit to the non-conference to the coaching philosophy.

So your solution to people not showing up because the team is terrible is go out of their way to ensure they will lose their OOC games? Money is not the issue here and you can't keep blaming it on the teams they play. When they were in the SBC they always wanted more Texas teams and now they have three and are still bad.

I think there is a more obvious and simple answer. Maybe the people of Denton just are not interested in UNT football? Could you blame them when you have the Cowboys and TCU near by?

Its what gets your fan base enthused.

Colorado
Kansas
Texas Tech
Oklahoma State

Regional P5's for 1 and done money games. That is what Ohio has.

2016 @Tennessee
2017 @Purdue
2018 @Virginia
2019 @Pittsburgh
2020 @Boston College
2021 @Northwestern

Then decent 1 for 1's with Kansas, UMass, Cincinnati, Marshall, Louisiana, FAU, Iowa State.

I wouldn't load up on Wisconsin, LSU, Alabama ect. when it's a 99% loss. Give the alumni hope with P5's you've got a chance to win against and bring schools across the country in @home.

If I were UNT I'd drop SMU & Army with the idea of bringing in Boise, Col State, AState, Louisiana, Appalachian State ect. Fans want to see good teams.

(07-18-2016 08:14 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(07-18-2016 12:40 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Expectations I'm sure were high with that new stadium going into CUSA.

The move to CUSA unfortunately has fallen flat when WKU, MTSU, FAU, ODU and Charlotte were all added to it. This is not what UNT signed up for.

UNT should be scheduling more B12 in the non-conference. Money games at Tech, TCU and Baylor, Oklahoma St instead of Wisconsin, Florida, Iowa ect. The key is to schedule games your alumni can get to building interest.

You also need a coaching style that fits the type of players UNT normally would recruit. That is what TCU has with Gary Patterson a guy who was a former lineman who has built a program with the lines.

Good programs have good chemistry from the conference fit to the non-conference to the coaching philosophy.

So your solution to people not showing up because the team is terrible is go out of their way to ensure they will lose their OOC games? Money is not the issue here and you can't keep blaming it on the teams they play. When they were in the SBC they always wanted more Texas teams and now they have three and are still bad.

I think there is a more obvious and simple answer. Maybe the people of Denton just are not interested in UNT football? Could you blame them when you have the Cowboys and TCU near by?

You are not here. You do not understand the dynamics of the problem. We don't need to lure fans away from TCU. We have a much larger alumni base the they do. There are plenty of fans in the Denton area. More then enough to sell out Apogee. Our problem has been the leadership of our athletic department. He was here for 15 years, and never figured out how to hire coaches or market our programs. 35,000 North Texas fans showed up for our Heart of Dallas Bowl in 2013, our 1 winning season in the past decade. We have a fan base. Our last AD just didn't understand how to engage them.

We are in the process of hiring a new AD. Things are going to change at North Texas.

(07-19-2016 11:06 AM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(07-18-2016 08:14 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(07-18-2016 12:40 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Expectations I'm sure were high with that new stadium going into CUSA.

The move to CUSA unfortunately has fallen flat when WKU, MTSU, FAU, ODU and Charlotte were all added to it. This is not what UNT signed up for.

UNT should be scheduling more B12 in the non-conference. Money games at Tech, TCU and Baylor, Oklahoma St instead of Wisconsin, Florida, Iowa ect. The key is to schedule games your alumni can get to building interest.

You also need a coaching style that fits the type of players UNT normally would recruit. That is what TCU has with Gary Patterson a guy who was a former lineman who has built a program with the lines.

Good programs have good chemistry from the conference fit to the non-conference to the coaching philosophy.

So your solution to people not showing up because the team is terrible is go out of their way to ensure they will lose their OOC games? Money is not the issue here and you can't keep blaming it on the teams they play. When they were in the SBC they always wanted more Texas teams and now they have three and are still bad.

I think there is a more obvious and simple answer. Maybe the people of Denton just are not interested in UNT football? Could you blame them when you have the Cowboys and TCU near by?

You are not here. You do not understand the dynamics of the problem. We don't need to lure fans away from TCU. We have a much larger alumni base the they do. There are plenty of fans in the Denton area. More then enough to sell out Apogee. Our problem has been the leadership of our athletic department. He was here for 15 years, and never figured out how to hire coaches or market our programs. 35,000 North Texas fans showed up for our Heart of Dallas Bowl in 2013, our 1 winning season in the past decade. We have a fan base. Our last AD just didn't understand how to engage them.

We are in the process of hiring a new AD. Things are going to change at North Texas.

bolded is the real problem at north Texas state

their fans simply live outside of reality they talk a lot about the AD for the last 15 years while ignoring the fact that their athletics have sucked for a hell of a lot longer than 15 years

they ignore the fact that the AD they all complain about was not at the university when the university sucked so bad at football that they dropped down to D1-AA and still sucked

and they ignore the fact that while that AD had a number of issues that anyone could bring up with him he was still a hell of a lot better than any AD they had in the history of the university with the possible exception of Hayden Fry and Hayden Fry left the university ASAP because of their total lack of commitment to athletics

they give the AD that just left next to no credit for much of the things that DID get done and they ignore the massively unstable leadership at the top of the university and the horrid leadership at the system level that AD also had to contend with

they also pretend that north Texas state had 35,000 fans at the Heart of Dallas bowl when the reality was there were 35,000 people that showed up tot hat bowl game and nowhere near 35,000 of them were there specifically because of north Texas state......that is like dem coogs doh taking credit for well over half of the fans at the Peach bowl last year against FSU

and really even IF that number of fans was there for that specific team how pathetic is it those fans will not show up year in and year out to regular season games.......this is not a strong fan base that is a weak group of fair weather fans that will never contribute to a strong consistent winning athletics program no matter who the AD is or what type of gorilla suit he puts on to jump around on the street corner to try and sell tickets

that is the type of weak fan base that shows up to see a winner and then walks away the moment times get tough and says for someone else to do something to fix the problem and then they will be back

if YOUR FANS need OTHER TEAMS to get them to show up to a game then YOUR FANS SUCK

if YOUR FANS only show up to a bowl game and not to regular season games then YOUR FANS SUCK

if YOUR FANS need a "handy" and a hug from the AD or they get butt hurt and walk away then YOUR FANS SUCK

if your fans have a history of coming up with excuse after excuse about why "the sleeping giant" never wakes up from "conference too far away in the Big West" to "no Texas teams in the Sunbelt" "our coach alienates the fans and plays boring football" to "our facilities suck wait until we get new ones" to "our coach plays high school ball" to "our coach is old and plays football high school kids don't like" to "our AD sucks we need a new one" and on and on and the issues still continue even after those issues are solved or the situation changes......well at some point you have to just accept reality that you are what you are and maybe it is the actual fans and the overall attitude of the university and the students it attracted in the past and attracts now and will attract in the future

UNT needs to hire Art Briles.