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http://www.breakingnews.com/item/2016/07...n-unnamed/

Several dead and wounded per report.

No one is safe; this **** is getting old.

It seems to me that the whole "the only thing that beats a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" theory might be a myth. How many good guys with a gun were in the courtroom? And they were well trained good guys, not poorly trained like most civilians.

From early news reports it reads as if the "bad guy" somehow took the gun from one of the bailiffs ('good guy' - victim).

Every day seems like an episode from "Gunsmoke" except Marshall Dillon isn't always faster, law doesn't always prevail and "right" isn't always right.

I remember when one of Kalamazoo's long-serving judges (Patrick McCauley for you old-timers) retired.

GAZETTE reporter asked him what the difference was between when he first took the bench, and then.

He said (I'm paraphrasing) that when he became a judge the convicted were frequently immoral but often expressed remorse for their actions.

As he was leaving the judiciary he said most were amoral - didn't know the difference between right or wrong or didn't care.

That was 20 years ago.

(07-11-2016 05:22 PM)BCBronco Wrote:  It seems to me that the whole "the only thing that beats a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" theory might be a myth. How many good guys with a gun were in the courtroom? And they were well trained good guys, not poorly trained like most civilians.

Statistically, I wonder if families with guns in the house are safer than those without guns.

(07-11-2016 06:05 PM)Hiller4Hyz09 Wrote:  

(07-11-2016 05:22 PM)BCBronco Wrote:  It seems to me that the whole "the only thing that beats a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" theory might be a myth. How many good guys with a gun were in the courtroom? And they were well trained good guys, not poorly trained like most civilians.

Statistically, I wonder if families with guns in the house are safer than those without guns.

I've never owned a gun, but have a buddy who's been around guns his whole life and currently owns six or so guns at home. He's a gun enthusiast but told me one day that his guns are virtually useless as a means of protection. His theory is unless he's sleeping with them or watching tv with them in his lap, they won't be much help locked up in the gun safe.

His message was in a typical B&E the guns won't help. He thought they might be useful in the event of a zombie apocalypse.

(07-11-2016 06:05 PM)Hiller4Hyz09 Wrote:  

(07-11-2016 05:22 PM)BCBronco Wrote:  It seems to me that the whole "the only thing that beats a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" theory might be a myth. How many good guys with a gun were in the courtroom? And they were well trained good guys, not poorly trained like most civilians.

Statistically, I wonder if families with guns in the house are safer than those without guns.

I suspect that it depends if that house is in Flint, Chicago, Baltimore type cities or out in the countryside.
Why are there not protest marches & meetings with OVER 2100 shot in Chicago alone so far this year. 313 of those dead and seems like no one cares. 95% are Black or Hispanic per a Chicago website. http://www.Heyjackass.com

Quote:Why are there not protest marches & meetings with OVER 2100 shot in Chicago alone so far this year.

There actually are very frequent protests regarding violence in Chicago. I was there this weekend and there were advertisements for a hip-hop event dedicated to stopping violence. The radio DJ's sign-off included a "put down the guns" message. Here is an article recounting some protests in the city.

https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20151201...s-all-time

Yes sorry, I am sure many of the local population cares, but where is the national media coverage and national attention?
Mean while Per news reports, There are 100s to 1000s of people at current "police" protests.

If 4000 Americans were shot in some foreign city with 500-600 US citizens dead in one year, I suspect the US Military would be sent over.

(07-11-2016 05:40 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  He said (I'm paraphrasing) that when he became a judge the convicted were frequently immoral but often expressed remorse for their actions.

As he was leaving the judiciary he said most were amoral - didn't know the difference between right or wrong or didn't care.

That was 20 years ago.

Yep, the cold absence of empathy is scary, and the person much harder to rehabilitate.

While there are many contributing causes, the main root starts in the home. When the father is completely absent and the too-young mother is either unfit or unwilling to raise children, the child is ultimately "raised" by a troubled sibling and/or the streets constantly exposed to violence and apathy. The pattern repeats itself, and with each generation cycle, the emotions get harder, robotic.

(07-11-2016 08:23 PM)okgc Wrote:  Yes sorry, I am sure many of the local population cares, but where is the national media coverage and national attention?

Nice backpedal

As stated earlier, the gun used in this courthouse shooting was one taken by a criminal defendant from a police officer who was escorting the defendant to the jail. Unless someone is advocating that the police shouldn't carry guns either, this is not a poster-child case for "gun control". And if there were non law enforcement people in the area who were carrying guns, and who had the opportunity and brass to shoot the assailant before he shot any of the people he shot, perhaps one or more of the victims lives would have been saved. The reality is though that courthouses prohibit the public from carrying pistols. Most, including mine, allow judges to carry pistols. Unfortunately, in my county, and other poor rural counties, there is almost no security at all.

I know many of the judges in Berrien county, and feel for everyone there: particularly the families of the victims. But, while the media and others will frame this as a "gun" issue, the real problem is that we have created a society loaded with policies that enable derelicts, delinquents, criminals, and particularly the irresponsible to do what they do, then pass on the same traits from one generation to the next. And instead of condemning those people, we throw government money at them, paid for from those who are trying hard to do the right things. This is the product of our new socially correct America.

Appears Berrien County should not have listened to New York's "kinder, gentler police" ideas.

Quote: NYPOST.com October 17, 2015

The NYPD will soon allow cops to handcuff criminal suspects with their hands in front instead of behind their backs as part of the use-of-force overhaul — a change one police source called “total lunacy.”

“They want to say they’re a kinder, gentler police force by coming up with a new policy on front-cuffing. But it invites danger,” the source said.

NYPD spokesman Stephen Davis told The Post that the change — which will go into effect Jan. 1 — was part of the revision of the Patrol Guide regarding use of force.

Sorry to hear stories like this.

(07-13-2016 08:33 AM)okgc Wrote:  Appears Berrien County should not have listened to New York's "kinder, gentler police" ideas.

Quote: NYPOST.com October 17, 2015

The NYPD will soon allow cops to handcuff criminal suspects with their hands in front instead of behind their backs as part of the use-of-force overhaul — a change one police source called “total lunacy.”

“They want to say they’re a kinder, gentler police force by coming up with a new policy on front-cuffing. But it invites danger,” the source said.

NYPD spokesman Stephen Davis told The Post that the change — which will go into effect Jan. 1 — was part of the revision of the Patrol Guide regarding use of force.

Sorry to hear stories like this.

The "Do-Gooders" in society, and those who vote for "Do-Gooders" to represent us in congress and in other elected positions, do no "good" for our country, or even the people they think they are helping. Be it handcuffing policies, gun control, national defense, social welfare, or anything else. Yet, instead of admitting that these philosophies have been wrong, and disastrous to America, the "Do-Gooders" refuse to relent, and the "Do-Gooder" policies keep growing.

(07-13-2016 08:19 AM)brovol Wrote:  As stated earlier, the gun used in this courthouse shooting was one taken by a criminal defendant from a police officer who was escorting the defendant to the jail. Unless someone is advocating that the police shouldn't carry guns either, this is not a poster-child case for "gun control". And if there were non law enforcement people in the area who were carrying guns, and who had the opportunity and brass to shoot the assailant before he shot any of the people he shot, perhaps one or more of the victims lives would have been saved. The reality is though that courthouses prohibit the public from carrying pistols. Most, including mine, allow judges to carry pistols. Unfortunately, in my county, and other poor rural counties, there is almost no security at all.

I know many of the judges in Berrien county, and feel for everyone there: particularly the families of the victims. But, while the media and others will frame this as a "gun" issue, the real problem is that we have created a society loaded with policies that enable derelicts, delinquents, criminals, and particularly the irresponsible to do what they do, then pass on the same traits from one generation to the next. And instead of condemning those people, we throw government money at them, paid for from those who are trying hard to do the right things. This is the product of our new socially correct America.

I don't think anyone is trying to spin this incident as a "gun control" issue, but thank you for reminding everyone of your willingness to descend into the toxic sewer of partisan hackiness when it suits your political agenda.

(07-13-2016 10:05 AM)Charm City Bronco Wrote:  

(07-13-2016 08:19 AM)brovol Wrote:  As stated earlier, the gun used in this courthouse shooting was one taken by a criminal defendant from a police officer who was escorting the defendant to the jail. Unless someone is advocating that the police shouldn't carry guns either, this is not a poster-child case for "gun control". And if there were non law enforcement people in the area who were carrying guns, and who had the opportunity and brass to shoot the assailant before he shot any of the people he shot, perhaps one or more of the victims lives would have been saved. The reality is though that courthouses prohibit the public from carrying pistols. Most, including mine, allow judges to carry pistols. Unfortunately, in my county, and other poor rural counties, there is almost no security at all.

I know many of the judges in Berrien county, and feel for everyone there: particularly the families of the victims. But, while the media and others will frame this as a "gun" issue, the real problem is that we have created a society loaded with policies that enable derelicts, delinquents, criminals, and particularly the irresponsible to do what they do, then pass on the same traits from one generation to the next. And instead of condemning those people, we throw government money at them, paid for from those who are trying hard to do the right things. This is the product of our new socially correct America.

I don't think anyone is trying to spin this incident as a "gun control" issue, but thank you for reminding everyone of your willingness to descend into the toxic sewer of partisan hackiness when it suits your political agenda.

LOL. Charm is always the predictable pot calling the kettle black. I was waiting for your call. Its a good thing you always come to the table with "clean hands", never having stooped so low as to manifest your sickle and hammer, socialistic propaganda during discussions on virtually any subject. Perhaps I am more conspicuous, as I lack the same thoughtful way of expressing myself that you have Charm. HAHAHAHAHA. God bless your soul Charm. HAHAHAHAHA.

(07-13-2016 11:25 AM)brovol Wrote:  

(07-13-2016 10:05 AM)Charm City Bronco Wrote:  

(07-13-2016 08:19 AM)brovol Wrote:  As stated earlier, the gun used in this courthouse shooting was one taken by a criminal defendant from a police officer who was escorting the defendant to the jail. Unless someone is advocating that the police shouldn't carry guns either, this is not a poster-child case for "gun control". And if there were non law enforcement people in the area who were carrying guns, and who had the opportunity and brass to shoot the assailant before he shot any of the people he shot, perhaps one or more of the victims lives would have been saved. The reality is though that courthouses prohibit the public from carrying pistols. Most, including mine, allow judges to carry pistols. Unfortunately, in my county, and other poor rural counties, there is almost no security at all.

I know many of the judges in Berrien county, and feel for everyone there: particularly the families of the victims. But, while the media and others will frame this as a "gun" issue, the real problem is that we have created a society loaded with policies that enable derelicts, delinquents, criminals, and particularly the irresponsible to do what they do, then pass on the same traits from one generation to the next. And instead of condemning those people, we throw government money at them, paid for from those who are trying hard to do the right things. This is the product of our new socially correct America.

I don't think anyone is trying to spin this incident as a "gun control" issue, but thank you for reminding everyone of your willingness to descend into the toxic sewer of partisan hackiness when it suits your political agenda.

LOL. Charm is always the predictable pot calling the kettle black. I was waiting for your call. Its a good thing you always come to the table with "clean hands", never having stooped so low as to manifest your sickle and hammer, socialistic propaganda during discussions on virtually any subject. Perhaps I am more conspicuous, as I lack the same thoughtful way of expressing myself that you have Charm. HAHAHAHAHA. God bless your soul Charm. HAHAHAHAHA.

Holy chit, you're a complete jackasss. Judge bum.

(07-15-2016 01:14 PM)DiaperHead69 Wrote:  

(07-13-2016 11:25 AM)brovol Wrote:  

(07-13-2016 10:05 AM)Charm City Bronco Wrote:  

(07-13-2016 08:19 AM)brovol Wrote:  As stated earlier, the gun used in this courthouse shooting was one taken by a criminal defendant from a police officer who was escorting the defendant to the jail. Unless someone is advocating that the police shouldn't carry guns either, this is not a poster-child case for "gun control". And if there were non law enforcement people in the area who were carrying guns, and who had the opportunity and brass to shoot the assailant before he shot any of the people he shot, perhaps one or more of the victims lives would have been saved. The reality is though that courthouses prohibit the public from carrying pistols. Most, including mine, allow judges to carry pistols. Unfortunately, in my county, and other poor rural counties, there is almost no security at all.

I know many of the judges in Berrien county, and feel for everyone there: particularly the families of the victims. But, while the media and others will frame this as a "gun" issue, the real problem is that we have created a society loaded with policies that enable derelicts, delinquents, criminals, and particularly the irresponsible to do what they do, then pass on the same traits from one generation to the next. And instead of condemning those people, we throw government money at them, paid for from those who are trying hard to do the right things. This is the product of our new socially correct America.

I don't think anyone is trying to spin this incident as a "gun control" issue, but thank you for reminding everyone of your willingness to descend into the toxic sewer of partisan hackiness when it suits your political agenda.

LOL. Charm is always the predictable pot calling the kettle black. I was waiting for your call. Its a good thing you always come to the table with "clean hands", never having stooped so low as to manifest your sickle and hammer, socialistic propaganda during discussions on virtually any subject. Perhaps I am more conspicuous, as I lack the same thoughtful way of expressing myself that you have Charm. HAHAHAHAHA. God bless your soul Charm. HAHAHAHAHA.

Holy chit, you're a complete jackasss. Judge bum.

I won't disagree with you on that one. But imagine Diaper-Douche, by comparison, what your status must be.