(07-10-2016 02:14 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  The problem with the 30,000 seat requirement to move up is: Who in the heck is going to have a stadium that large at the FCS level.

Well, in the mid-90s when this was enforced, you had the likes of Nevada, UCF, Marshall, and Boise grow to meet the bar and move up in that time frame. That's basically the "who's who" of teams that have made the jump. It could be said that these programs build the foundation in I-AA/FCS, and were in position to succeed for the long term.

(07-10-2016 02:14 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  

(07-10-2016 01:01 PM)herdinva Wrote:  There was once a stadium capacity requirement to move up.......now you are seeing an extreme example of why that requirement even existed.

Ok, that said, the more programs that move up that aren't ready for this level, the more the P5 have an argument that 1a is watered down and want separate divisions again. This is what caused it to separate into divisions many moons ago, and here we are again.

If a program has the infrastructure, resources etc and all they need is to move up on a piece of paper, then so be it, they can blend in with the rest of us. If they do not have these things in place, then they have no business moving up. Coastal doesn't have these things in place.....great location but everything else sucks besides baseball. Gymnasium is even pretty small, I know, I went to Radford University as well as Marshall and seen it first hand.

Now look at the other 1AA schools that moved up recently, you have GSU, Georgia State, App State, ODU, Charlotte (I don't count UTSA, they were in transition when we took them). Ok, now which of those schools are anything like Coastal in the situation? Answer: None. App and GSU have been ready for a little while, ODU sorta was and has backing and a plan being executed, Charlotte sorta same as ODU, Georgia State, well play in a big stadium but program was not ready. Coastal compared to those is light years behind in most every fashion, even behind Georgia State.

If they are allowed to move up with a 9000 seat stadium, that would be a travesty.

The problem with the 30,000 seat requirement to move up is: Who in the heck is going to have a stadium that large at the FCS level. A better requirement would be to be able to prove you have the financial wherewithal to make the move. You should have to open the books to your AD to the NCAA. Put it all out on the table.

To be honest, 30K seat might have been a bit much, BUT Marshall did it to get back to 1a.........So there is that. If the requirement still existed, you could count on other hopefuls to do the same thing, get the infrastructure in place and then apply for the move up. Right now it seems there is a come one come all thing happening, again creating more of an argument that 1a should be further divided if this is going to continue, and I am not sure I can disagree with that. The funny thing is, when Marshall rejoined the MAC, we had the nicest venue and highest capacity in that conference because of the requirement and they were already 1a will less that 30K seat stadiums and our capacity grew in time while in the MAC to what it is today...I don't know if that was a grandfather clause or what at the time. I could see a reasonable requirement being 20-25K capacity and firmly believe it should be a requirement. My previous argument still stands, if you aren't ready to go, then you have no business trying to up your game with more severe competition at 1a level. If you want to be one of the big boys then you have to appear to be a big boy.....just my opinion. Soon you would be comparing a 9000 seat stadium to a 35-40 K stadium and scratch your head on how in the world they are in the same division.

(07-10-2016 06:32 PM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  

(07-10-2016 02:14 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  The problem with the 30,000 seat requirement to move up is: Who in the heck is going to have a stadium that large at the FCS level.

Well, in the mid-90s when this was enforced, you had the likes of Nevada, UCF, Marshall, and Boise grow to meet the bar and move up in that time frame. That's basically the "who's who" of teams that have made the jump. It could be said that these programs build the foundation in I-AA/FCS, and were in position to succeed for the long term.

App st, Texas St. and GSU did the same thing, grew in 1AA for the move to 1A.

There are a few more schools ready for the jump if they so chose to do it. James Madison, spent a lot of money upgrading their stadium, Montana, FBS quality stadium, Delaware, needs a little work but foundation is there. Jacksonville St could, its not a huge stadium but its nice and 24K capacity. JMU screwed the pooch, Montana and Delaware are happy being a big fish in a small pond. Jacksonville St has no suitors. All these schools are light years ahead of CCU.

(07-10-2016 07:04 PM)herdinva Wrote:  

(07-10-2016 06:32 PM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  

(07-10-2016 02:14 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  The problem with the 30,000 seat requirement to move up is: Who in the heck is going to have a stadium that large at the FCS level.

Well, in the mid-90s when this was enforced, you had the likes of Nevada, UCF, Marshall, and Boise grow to meet the bar and move up in that time frame. That's basically the "who's who" of teams that have made the jump. It could be said that these programs build the foundation in I-AA/FCS, and were in position to succeed for the long term.

App st, Texas St. and GSU did the same thing, grew in 1AA for the move to 1A.

Well let me ask you something; When Marshall moved up was the rule requiring a team to have an invite from an FBS conference on the books? The reason I ask this is, what if a team was to build a 30K stadium (at a minimum cost of probably 125 Million dollars) and then didn't get an invite? They would be flirting with financial ruin. No school is going to do that. It is that exact situation UMass faces with the AAC. Build it and maybe we let you in. UMass says let us in and we can get the support (from the state) to build it.

(07-10-2016 07:36 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  

(07-10-2016 07:04 PM)herdinva Wrote:  

(07-10-2016 06:32 PM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  

(07-10-2016 02:14 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  The problem with the 30,000 seat requirement to move up is: Who in the heck is going to have a stadium that large at the FCS level.

Well, in the mid-90s when this was enforced, you had the likes of Nevada, UCF, Marshall, and Boise grow to meet the bar and move up in that time frame. That's basically the "who's who" of teams that have made the jump. It could be said that these programs build the foundation in I-AA/FCS, and were in position to succeed for the long term.

App st, Texas St. and GSU did the same thing, grew in 1AA for the move to 1A.

Well let me ask you something; When Marshall moved up was the rule requiring a team to have an invite from an FBS conference on the books? The reason I ask this is, what if a team was to build a 30K stadium (at a minimum cost of probably 125 Million dollars) and then didn't get an invite? They would be flirting with financial ruin. No school is going to do that. It is that exact situation UMass faces with the AAC. Build it and maybe we let you in. UMass says let us in and we can get the support (from the state) to build it.

I am not 100% sure but I think that was still the case. The MAC invited us back to them, we applied was rejected because of the 30K rule, we upgraded a year later by enclosing the bowl a few rows to reach 30K, reapplied and was accepted, started play in 97. We further expanded in 2000 I think to current capacity of 38K by adding more rows to the same bowl enclosure. That by far made us more CUSA like at that time than MAC like, and with all the success and facility enhancements, we had a CUSA invite the next year, football only and had to turn it down due to no home for other sports. I am willing to bet if UMASS would invest in their program like the AAC wants, they would by far be their first choice and I can applaud the AAC for doing that. All the FBS conferences should be doing that method. If you want to belong, show us. Here is a conditional invite, upgrade your facilities and the official invite is yours, simple as that. Now it would have to be a binding agreement to make it work, and I am sure it is a binding agreement if both parties accept the conditions.

I don't understand this thread. Coastal will have a 20,000 + seat stadium completed by 2018 and will use temporary seating to get to 15,000 for next season so why is this any different than any other FCS team who improved stadium capacity after being invited to FBS?

(07-10-2016 07:46 PM)herdinva Wrote:  

(07-10-2016 07:36 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  

(07-10-2016 07:04 PM)herdinva Wrote:  

(07-10-2016 06:32 PM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  

(07-10-2016 02:14 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  The problem with the 30,000 seat requirement to move up is: Who in the heck is going to have a stadium that large at the FCS level.

Well, in the mid-90s when this was enforced, you had the likes of Nevada, UCF, Marshall, and Boise grow to meet the bar and move up in that time frame. That's basically the "who's who" of teams that have made the jump. It could be said that these programs build the foundation in I-AA/FCS, and were in position to succeed for the long term.

App st, Texas St. and GSU did the same thing, grew in 1AA for the move to 1A.

Well let me ask you something; When Marshall moved up was the rule requiring a team to have an invite from an FBS conference on the books? The reason I ask this is, what if a team was to build a 30K stadium (at a minimum cost of probably 125 Million dollars) and then didn't get an invite? They would be flirting with financial ruin. No school is going to do that. It is that exact situation UMass faces with the AAC. Build it and maybe we let you in. UMass says let us in and we can get the support (from the state) to build it.

I am not 100% sure but I think that was still the case. The MAC invited us back to them, we applied was rejected because of the 30K rule, we upgraded a year later by enclosing the bowl a few rows to reach 30K, reapplied and was accepted, started play in 97. We further expanded in 2000 I think to current capacity of 38K by adding more rows to the same bowl enclosure. That by far made us more CUSA like at that time than MAC like, and with all the success and facility enhancements, we had a CUSA invite the next year, football only and had to turn it down due to no home for other sports. I am willing to bet if UMASS would invest in their program like the AAC wants, they would by far be their first choice and I can applaud the AAC for doing that. All the FBS conferences should be doing that method. If you want to belong, show us. Here is a conditional invite, upgrade your facilities and the official invite is yours, simple as that. Now it would have to be a binding agreement to make it work, and I am sure it is a binding agreement if both parties accept the conditions.

Actually now that I think on it, I am not so sure you had to have a conference invite to move up. We used to have enough independents to make a conference on their own. So I am going to say no, you didn't have to have a conference to move up at that time, but you did have to meet requirements.

(07-10-2016 07:48 PM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  I don't understand this thread. Coastal will have a 20,000 + seat stadium completed by 2018 and will use temporary seating to get to 15,000 for next season so why is this any different than any other FCS team who improved stadium capacity after being invited to FBS?

According to reports, their expansion has been rejected. that's the issue. I or anyone else on here don't matter much as far as opinion, but I feel they should have this stuff in place before making a transition. But that can be said of a few others schools as well.

Are they even selling out consistently their current capacity? I mean... could they be ready to add 5-10K based on ticket sales/attendance trends?

I don't see why the stadium couldn't be multipurpose for the community if they wanted to....

(07-10-2016 05:13 PM)panama Wrote:  

(07-10-2016 04:47 PM)FriscoDawg Wrote:  "Easy" information is not always correct information, and it isn't here.

Standard enrollment figures used universally are those taken after the 9th day of fall classes. And those are the official figures that I quoted.

No one honestly can believe ANY figures posted on ANY federal website. Especially for a department that serves no purpose. The general public is not told how data provided to the feds is scrubbed prior to release. Take the bogus unemployment figures released by the DoL as probably the most high profile example.

And given the post #29 OP's history, I'm sure if the University of Louisiana figures had been lower than the DoE figures, those would have been the figures that would have been used.

Cool conspiracy theory bro. The numbers he is referring to are federally reported to the govt by the university.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You are correct. Those figures are the numbers that TECH reported in compliance with the rules. If one has a problem with the numbers then they should contact the Tech administration.

(07-10-2016 08:00 PM)herdinva Wrote:  

(07-10-2016 07:48 PM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  I don't understand this thread. Coastal will have a 20,000 + seat stadium completed by 2018 and will use temporary seating to get to 15,000 for next season so why is this any different than any other FCS team who improved stadium capacity after being invited to FBS?

According to reports, their expansion has been rejected. that's the issue. I or anyone else on here don't matter much as far as opinion, but I feel they should have this stuff in place before making a transition. But that can be said of a few others schools as well.

Old news...they bypassed the committee that had been stonewalling them and had their funding approved by the state legislature. Everything is now proceeding although it was delayed enough that they will have to bring in temporary seating for next season.

(07-10-2016 08:12 PM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  

(07-10-2016 08:00 PM)herdinva Wrote:  

(07-10-2016 07:48 PM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  I don't understand this thread. Coastal will have a 20,000 + seat stadium completed by 2018 and will use temporary seating to get to 15,000 for next season so why is this any different than any other FCS team who improved stadium capacity after being invited to FBS?

According to reports, their expansion has been rejected. that's the issue. I or anyone else on here don't matter much as far as opinion, but I feel they should have this stuff in place before making a transition. But that can be said of a few others schools as well.

Old news...they bypassed the committee that had been stonewalling them and had their funding approved by the state legislature. Everything is now proceeding although it was delayed enough that they will have to bring in temporary seating for next season.

Good to know. Doesn't change my opinion that a school should have things ready to go before making a move though. It used to be that way and never should have changed. As one of our ECU buddies pointed out though, do they even sell out their small stadium as is? Is there enough interest in the area to draw fans not part of the school? Its a great location, but given the size of the school and competition to date, what can they expect as far as support? Answers to that would be interesting. They could hit it off pretty quick, or they could be another FIU, FAU with no fan interest. At least FAU has a nice stadium.

Another question; Can anybody decipher just what the NCAA rules for for attendance are? I've heard several different interpretations. Including one just today. In Miniums column today he said a team only needed a crowd of 15,000 once in a 3 year period. Obviously this can't be true, can it?

"Average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football contests over a rolling two-year period". [Bylaw 20.9.9.3]

"Coastal recently joined the Sun Belt Conference and will move to FBS in 2017. Coastal’s Brooks Stadium seats just 9,214 – and the school must have a bigger stadium because NCAA rules require an average home attendance of 15,000 at least once every three years"
Harry Minium 7/10/2016

What you are missing is Coastal was sought out by the Sun Belt. They may have had the long term goal of FBS but the Sun Belt's interest sped up the time table. This may have well been the last slot for an FCS team to upgrade for a long time.

Liberty and eku had been lobbing like crazy but neither had the votes.

So coastal was sought out and they will have their stadium just a bit delayed

(07-10-2016 08:19 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  Another question; Can anybody decipher just what the NCAA rules for for attendance are? I've heard several different interpretations. Including one just today. In Miniums column today he said a team only needed a crowd of 15,000 once in a 3 year period. Obviously this can't be true, can it?

"Average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football contests over a rolling two-year period". [Bylaw 20.9.9.3]

"Coastal recently joined the Sun Belt Conference and will move to FBS in 2017. Coastal’s Brooks Stadium seats just 9,214 – and the school must have a bigger stadium because NCAA rules require an average home attendance of 15,000 at least once every three years"
Harry Minium 7/10/2016

Well I am pretty sure the original writing on that was butts in seats but obviously they backed off that and included paid attendance, 15K average once every two years, get a warning if you miss the mark on one year and I am not sure what the next step was if it was 2 in a row. It could be a 3 year thing if you think on it. miss it first year, get it second year, resets, miss it next year. So technically they could only need once every 3 years in their first 3 years, but then it would reverse itself on the next 3 year cycle, needing two years over that 3 year period to comply

(07-10-2016 08:25 PM)David Krumudgen Wrote:  What you are missing is Coastal was sought out by the Sun Belt. They may have had the long term goal of FBS but the Sun Belt's interest sped up the time table. This may have well been the last slot for an FCS team to upgrade for a long time.

Liberty and eku had been lobbing like crazy but neither had the votes.

So coastal was sought out and they will have their stadium just a bit delayed

Well in that situation they could delay full membership until its built, where is the harm in that. Sure you may have a lame duck season, but ODU had a lame duck season when they announced their move, CAA cod blocked them from winning the conference to make it to the playoffs. Its just part of it. Get the stadium built and be ready to compete on day one of full membership. There is a reason Charlotte was independent in FCS, they knew where they were going, and yeah it was a lame duck season, but it was necessary and they knew it, Im not sure what the hold up with them is on stadium expansion cause their current capacity for a CUSA school is embarrassing.

(07-10-2016 08:28 PM)herdinva Wrote:  

(07-10-2016 08:19 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  Another question; Can anybody decipher just what the NCAA rules for for attendance are? I've heard several different interpretations. Including one just today. In Miniums column today he said a team only needed a crowd of 15,000 once in a 3 year period. Obviously this can't be true, can it?

"Average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football contests over a rolling two-year period". [Bylaw 20.9.9.3]

"Coastal recently joined the Sun Belt Conference and will move to FBS in 2017. Coastal’s Brooks Stadium seats just 9,214 – and the school must have a bigger stadium because NCAA rules require an average home attendance of 15,000 at least once every three years"
Harry Minium 7/10/2016

Well I am pretty sure the original writing on that was butts in seats but obviously they backed off that and included paid attendance, 15K average once every two years, get a warning if you miss the mark on one year and I am not sure what the next step was if it was 2 in a row. It could be a 3 year thing if you think on it. miss it first year, get it second year, resets, miss it next year. So technically they could only need once every 3 years in their first 3 years, but then it would reverse itself on the next 3 year cycle, needing two years over that 3 year period to comply

Well to me that requirement is much too easy:
Rule #1 Before moving up, open your books to the NCAA (publics only) and prove you can afford it.

Rule #2 Average 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for every game. Miss 4 games in a row where you do not meet the minimum. The following year, you are on one years probation. Miss one game in your probation year and you are forced down. Now that's a rule with some teeth!!

(07-10-2016 08:18 PM)herdinva Wrote:  

(07-10-2016 08:12 PM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  

(07-10-2016 08:00 PM)herdinva Wrote:  

(07-10-2016 07:48 PM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  I don't understand this thread. Coastal will have a 20,000 + seat stadium completed by 2018 and will use temporary seating to get to 15,000 for next season so why is this any different than any other FCS team who improved stadium capacity after being invited to FBS?

According to reports, their expansion has been rejected. that's the issue. I or anyone else on here don't matter much as far as opinion, but I feel they should have this stuff in place before making a transition. But that can be said of a few others schools as well.

Old news...they bypassed the committee that had been stonewalling them and had their funding approved by the state legislature. Everything is now proceeding although it was delayed enough that they will have to bring in temporary seating for next season.

Good to know. Doesn't change my opinion that a school should have things ready to go before making a move though. It used to be that way and never should have changed. As one of our ECU buddies pointed out though, do they even sell out their small stadium as is? Is there enough interest in the area to draw fans not part of the school? Its a great location, but given the size of the school and competition to date, what can they expect as far as support? Answers to that would be interesting. They could hit it off pretty quick, or they could be another FIU, FAU with no fan interest. At least FAU has a nice stadium.

I admit I wasn't sure about how well they are attended so I looked it up and yes they sold out 6 of their 7 home games last season averaging for the season 96% capacity. The answers to your other questions can't be known now.

You have to remember this add was more about sports other than football. The Sun Belt needed a travel partner for App St and wanted a school that played soccer so we could keep our auto-bid. It helped that they are great at baseball and had made a couple of trips to March Madness recently plus fit our footprint perfectly. They will get the stadium done and given time I think they will have a fairly high ceiling in FBS. They are also probably the last FCS to be called up for a very long time so no need to worry about it getting worse because in a very short time they will probably surpass several of FBS's under-performing legacy programs.

(07-10-2016 08:47 PM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  

(07-10-2016 08:18 PM)herdinva Wrote:  

(07-10-2016 08:12 PM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  

(07-10-2016 08:00 PM)herdinva Wrote:  

(07-10-2016 07:48 PM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  I don't understand this thread. Coastal will have a 20,000 + seat stadium completed by 2018 and will use temporary seating to get to 15,000 for next season so why is this any different than any other FCS team who improved stadium capacity after being invited to FBS?

According to reports, their expansion has been rejected. that's the issue. I or anyone else on here don't matter much as far as opinion, but I feel they should have this stuff in place before making a transition. But that can be said of a few others schools as well.

Old news...they bypassed the committee that had been stonewalling them and had their funding approved by the state legislature. Everything is now proceeding although it was delayed enough that they will have to bring in temporary seating for next season.

Good to know. Doesn't change my opinion that a school should have things ready to go before making a move though. It used to be that way and never should have changed. As one of our ECU buddies pointed out though, do they even sell out their small stadium as is? Is there enough interest in the area to draw fans not part of the school? Its a great location, but given the size of the school and competition to date, what can they expect as far as support? Answers to that would be interesting. They could hit it off pretty quick, or they could be another FIU, FAU with no fan interest. At least FAU has a nice stadium.

I admit I wasn't sure about how well they are attended so I looked it up and yes they sold out 6 of their 7 home games last season averaging for the season 96% capacity. The answers to your other questions can't be known now.

You have to remember this add was more about sports other than football. The Sun Belt needed a travel partner for App St and wanted a school that played soccer so we could keep our auto-bid. It helped that they are great at baseball and had made a couple of trips to March Madness recently plus fit our footprint perfectly. They will get the stadium done and given time I think they will have a fairly high ceiling in FBS. They are also probably the last FCS to be called up for a very long time so no need to worry about it getting worse because in a very short time they will probably surpass several of FBS's under-performing legacy programs.

Well that is true, BUT football is what is driving expansion, football is what pays the bills. I don't think they wanted CCU for anything other than its location. Yeah they average good baseball teams, and their basketball has only recently been successful in the big south, but football is the driver, that is what brings in TV, that is what pays bills. We can say we added ODU for their basketball but that wasn't the biggest reason we added them. If that was the only reason the addition wouldn't have happened. CUSA saw their football potential, they were maxing their stadium on successful FCS years, which was pretty much every year since they restarted play. I really feel ODU is short changing the stadium that will be built, I think they could average what marshall or USM averages if they had a big enough stadium. ODU's football and future potential is what got them the invite, not their basketball, that was just a bonus.