It would be different. Let's say the AFA was in Huntsville, AL, which would have been a good spot for it. Or let's say Notre Dame was in Colorado Springs

(07-04-2016 01:06 AM)lew240z Wrote:  

(07-03-2016 09:29 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(07-03-2016 01:43 AM)lew240z Wrote:  

(07-02-2016 11:37 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(07-02-2016 11:23 PM)bullet Wrote:  They would have been shut down because they wouldn't have been able to fly much!

They would have gravitated to conference affiliation more with Navy and Army. The MAC may have been stronger as a result, but the American still could have reeled them in. Would have introduced college lax and hockey much earlier to that neck of the woods.

UC-Colorado Springs would have been DI decades before.

Decades before what? UCCS, established in 1964, isn't D1 now and the location of the Air Force Academy doesn't effect that one way or the other. UCCS is one third the size of the other two UC system schools and CSU. It is smaller than RMAC conference mate Metro State and slightly larger than Colorado Mesa.

UCCS has a very similar history to other DI FBS schools like USA, UTSA, USF, etc. If Colo Springs didn't have the AFA, businesses in that city would have seen a way for UC CS to be DI in some way. Colo Springs would have had a DI team, and probably an FBS one. Colorado College in DI hockey would not have been enough.

Once again, UCCS is not now and never has been D1. Whether or not the AFA was nearby is not relevant. I grew up in the area. I have relatives in the area. I know Colorado politics. The powers that be in northern Colorado will never allow a school in the southern part of the state to rival Boulder. I would be surprised if UCCS is even allowed to start a D2 football team.

Not only that, but for the majority of their histories, CU (Boulder) kept a pretty tight stranglehold on the rest of the CU system, forbidding them to have athletics at all. The CU system was first viewed as a "compliment" to UC (Boulder) and then as a "feeder" system. So, UC-Denver (as an example...which I attended for a year between attending Metro State on the SAME campus), was started as a purely GRADUATE program school, offering masters level programs that could compliment CU (Boulder). Then they added bachelors' level programs that were intended to "prime" students and get them into the CU system so that they would complete their studies (and be ready to move to Boulder for Graduate studies). It's only recently that UC-D actually became a self-sufficient, stand-alone school...and they actually have athletics now, I gather as well. (I have NO idea when that started...) It was similar with UCCS.

The UC trustees tried hard to stifle Colorado State's athletics as well. Their argument in the State Board of Higher Ed. was that the State only needed ONE Division 1 program. Everyone else competed at D2 or lower. (Colorado College in Colorado Springs was D3 for all sports except Hockey, which they competed at the D1 level...) Metro State looked at moving to D1 (they are prohibited in their charter from ever sponsoring FB), but as a State institution they were blocked at moving their BB to D1 by CU. It was probably a wise move. (I voted against it as a student....)

The point is that UC-CS would not have been allowed to have had D1 sports...with or without the presence of the AFA. CU would never have allowed it.

Not to mention that, for most of its history, Colorado Springs was NOT a major metropolitan area. When I moved to Colorado in 1979, it was a rather small city, with a very small airport (with only commuter service). It had been wildly overbuilt in the 1980's and when the first "Savings and Loan" scandal hit in 1986 (Silverado...run by the Bush family, FWIW) the city was devastated with a vacancy and default rate akin to Florida in 2008. The Academy sits WELL outside of town (on the Palmer Divide). The biggest industries for the area were Fort Carson (a major Army armor base and maneuvering range), NORAD (again outside of town), Peterson AFB (though this is a more recent upgrade), and Evangelical Christianity. We used to joke about Boulder being "The People's Republic of Boulder," and Colorado Springs likewise being the "Knee-jerk Reactionary" compliment to Boulder.

And in the middle, sat Denver.

But I digress.

(07-04-2016 10:12 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(07-04-2016 01:06 AM)lew240z Wrote:  

(07-03-2016 09:29 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(07-03-2016 01:43 AM)lew240z Wrote:  

(07-02-2016 11:37 PM)NoDak Wrote:  They would have gravitated to conference affiliation more with Navy and Army. The MAC may have been stronger as a result, but the American still could have reeled them in. Would have introduced college lax and hockey much earlier to that neck of the woods.

UC-Colorado Springs would have been DI decades before.

Decades before what? UCCS, established in 1964, isn't D1 now and the location of the Air Force Academy doesn't effect that one way or the other. UCCS is one third the size of the other two UC system schools and CSU. It is smaller than RMAC conference mate Metro State and slightly larger than Colorado Mesa.

UCCS has a very similar history to other DI FBS schools like USA, UTSA, USF, etc. If Colo Springs didn't have the AFA, businesses in that city would have seen a way for UC CS to be DI in some way. Colo Springs would have had a DI team, and probably an FBS one. Colorado College in DI hockey would not have been enough.

Once again, UCCS is not now and never has been D1. Whether or not the AFA was nearby is not relevant. I grew up in the area. I have relatives in the area. I know Colorado politics. The powers that be in northern Colorado will never allow a school in the southern part of the state to rival Boulder. I would be surprised if UCCS is even allowed to start a D2 football team.

Not only that, but for the majority of their histories, CU (Boulder) kept a pretty tight stranglehold on the rest of the CU system, forbidding them to have athletics at all. The CU system was first viewed as a "compliment" to UC (Boulder) and then as a "feeder" system. So, UC-Denver (as an example...which I attended for a year between attending Metro State on the SAME campus), was started as a purely GRADUATE program school, offering masters level programs that could compliment CU (Boulder). Then they added bachelors' level programs that were intended to "prime" students and get them into the CU system so that they would complete their studies (and be ready to move to Boulder for Graduate studies). It's only recently that UC-D actually became a self-sufficient, stand-alone school...and they actually have athletics now, I gather as well. (I have NO idea when that started...) It was similar with UCCS.

The UC trustees tried hard to stifle Colorado State's athletics as well. Their argument in the State Board of Higher Ed. was that the State only needed ONE Division 1 program. Everyone else competed at D2 or lower. (Colorado College in Colorado Springs was D3 for all sports except Hockey, which they competed at the D1 level...) Metro State looked at moving to D1 (they are prohibited in their charter from ever sponsoring FB), but as a State institution they were blocked at moving their BB to D1 by CU. It was probably a wise move. (I voted against it as a student....)

The point is that UC-CS would not have been allowed to have had D1 sports...with or without the presence of the AFA. CU would never have allowed it.

Not to mention that, for most of its history, Colorado Springs was NOT a major metropolitan area. When I moved to Colorado in 1979, it was a rather small city, with a very small airport (with only commuter service). It had been wildly overbuilt in the 1980's and when the first "Savings and Loan" scandal hit in 1986 (Silverado...run by the Bush family, FWIW) the city was devastated with a vacancy and default rate akin to Florida in 2008. The Academy sits WELL outside of town (on the Palmer Divide). The biggest industries for the area were Fort Carson (a major Army armor base and maneuvering range), NORAD (again outside of town), Peterson AFB (though this is a more recent upgrade), and Evangelical Christianity. We used to joke about Boulder being "The People's Republic of Boulder," and Colorado Springs likewise being the "Knee-jerk Reactionary" compliment to Boulder.

And in the middle, sat Denver.

But I digress.

The Air Force Academy occupies a big chunk of real estate, but I wouldn't characterize it as being well out of town. In fact, the academy's southern boundary almost direct abuts the city's northern boundary, and the South Gate is only a mile or so outside the city limits. Much of Tudor Ranch, once owned by members of my extended family, was acquired by the feds and is now part of the academy grounds. An aunt and a cousin, now both deceased, lived on Tudor Road.

The academy's setting is spectacular, but I've never cared for the look of the architecture. A lot of the dorms and classroom buildings have that 1950s Holiday Inn look.

(07-04-2016 12:39 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(07-04-2016 10:12 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(07-04-2016 01:06 AM)lew240z Wrote:  

(07-03-2016 09:29 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(07-03-2016 01:43 AM)lew240z Wrote:  Decades before what? UCCS, established in 1964, isn't D1 now and the location of the Air Force Academy doesn't effect that one way or the other. UCCS is one third the size of the other two UC system schools and CSU. It is smaller than RMAC conference mate Metro State and slightly larger than Colorado Mesa.

UCCS has a very similar history to other DI FBS schools like USA, UTSA, USF, etc. If Colo Springs didn't have the AFA, businesses in that city would have seen a way for UC CS to be DI in some way. Colo Springs would have had a DI team, and probably an FBS one. Colorado College in DI hockey would not have been enough.

Once again, UCCS is not now and never has been D1. Whether or not the AFA was nearby is not relevant. I grew up in the area. I have relatives in the area. I know Colorado politics. The powers that be in northern Colorado will never allow a school in the southern part of the state to rival Boulder. I would be surprised if UCCS is even allowed to start a D2 football team.

Not only that, but for the majority of their histories, CU (Boulder) kept a pretty tight stranglehold on the rest of the CU system, forbidding them to have athletics at all. The CU system was first viewed as a "compliment" to UC (Boulder) and then as a "feeder" system. So, UC-Denver (as an example...which I attended for a year between attending Metro State on the SAME campus), was started as a purely GRADUATE program school, offering masters level programs that could compliment CU (Boulder). Then they added bachelors' level programs that were intended to "prime" students and get them into the CU system so that they would complete their studies (and be ready to move to Boulder for Graduate studies). It's only recently that UC-D actually became a self-sufficient, stand-alone school...and they actually have athletics now, I gather as well. (I have NO idea when that started...) It was similar with UCCS.

The UC trustees tried hard to stifle Colorado State's athletics as well. Their argument in the State Board of Higher Ed. was that the State only needed ONE Division 1 program. Everyone else competed at D2 or lower. (Colorado College in Colorado Springs was D3 for all sports except Hockey, which they competed at the D1 level...) Metro State looked at moving to D1 (they are prohibited in their charter from ever sponsoring FB), but as a State institution they were blocked at moving their BB to D1 by CU. It was probably a wise move. (I voted against it as a student....)

The point is that UC-CS would not have been allowed to have had D1 sports...with or without the presence of the AFA. CU would never have allowed it.

Not to mention that, for most of its history, Colorado Springs was NOT a major metropolitan area. When I moved to Colorado in 1979, it was a rather small city, with a very small airport (with only commuter service). It had been wildly overbuilt in the 1980's and when the first "Savings and Loan" scandal hit in 1986 (Silverado...run by the Bush family, FWIW) the city was devastated with a vacancy and default rate akin to Florida in 2008. The Academy sits WELL outside of town (on the Palmer Divide). The biggest industries for the area were Fort Carson (a major Army armor base and maneuvering range), NORAD (again outside of town), Peterson AFB (though this is a more recent upgrade), and Evangelical Christianity. We used to joke about Boulder being "The People's Republic of Boulder," and Colorado Springs likewise being the "Knee-jerk Reactionary" compliment to Boulder.

And in the middle, sat Denver.

But I digress.

The Air Force Academy occupies a big chunk of real estate, but I wouldn't characterize it as being well out of town. In fact, the academy's southern boundary almost direct abuts the city's northern boundary, and the South Gate is only a mile or so outside the city limits. Much of Tudor Ranch, once owned by members of my extended family, was acquired by the feds and is now part of the academy grounds. An aunt and a cousin, now both deceased, lived on Tudor Road.

The academy's setting is spectacular, but I've never cared for the look of the architecture. A lot of the dorms and classroom buildings have that 1950s Holiday Inn look.

I think that the city has largely "grown out" to the Academy boundaries.

And I agree with the architecture revue. It is "1950's" style architecture because the great majority of buildings were designed and built at the same time, in the 50's. Even the renowned Chapel (designed by Erro Saarinen was "50's chic."

(07-04-2016 02:11 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  I think that the city has largely "grown out" to the Academy boundaries.

And I agree with the architecture revue. It is "1950's" style architecture because the great majority of buildings were designed and built at the same time, in the 50's. Even the renowned Chapel (designed by Erro Saarinen was "50's chic."

Save for the chapel, the AFA wasn't SOM's best work. But they were going for a modern feel that was completely different from the gothic and beaux-arts stylings of West Point and Annapolis. It's just that 50 years later, post-modern architecture proved not to be all that timeless.

(07-04-2016 10:12 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(07-04-2016 01:06 AM)lew240z Wrote:  

(07-03-2016 09:29 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(07-03-2016 01:43 AM)lew240z Wrote:  

(07-02-2016 11:37 PM)NoDak Wrote:  They would have gravitated to conference affiliation more with Navy and Army. The MAC may have been stronger as a result, but the American still could have reeled them in. Would have introduced college lax and hockey much earlier to that neck of the woods.

UC-Colorado Springs would have been DI decades before.

Decades before what? UCCS, established in 1964, isn't D1 now and the location of the Air Force Academy doesn't effect that one way or the other. UCCS is one third the size of the other two UC system schools and CSU. It is smaller than RMAC conference mate Metro State and slightly larger than Colorado Mesa.

UCCS has a very similar history to other DI FBS schools like USA, UTSA, USF, etc. If Colo Springs didn't have the AFA, businesses in that city would have seen a way for UC CS to be DI in some way. Colo Springs would have had a DI team, and probably an FBS one. Colorado College in DI hockey would not have been enough.

Once again, UCCS is not now and never has been D1. Whether or not the AFA was nearby is not relevant. I grew up in the area. I have relatives in the area. I know Colorado politics. The powers that be in northern Colorado will never allow a school in the southern part of the state to rival Boulder. I would be surprised if UCCS is even allowed to start a D2 football team.

Not only that, but for the majority of their histories, CU (Boulder) kept a pretty tight stranglehold on the rest of the CU system, forbidding them to have athletics at all. The CU system was first viewed as a "compliment" to UC (Boulder) and then as a "feeder" system. So, UC-Denver (as an example...which I attended for a year between attending Metro State on the SAME campus), was started as a purely GRADUATE program school, offering masters level programs that could compliment CU (Boulder). Then they added bachelors' level programs that were intended to "prime" students and get them into the CU system so that they would complete their studies (and be ready to move to Boulder for Graduate studies). It's only recently that UC-D actually became a self-sufficient, stand-alone school...and they actually have athletics now, I gather as well. (I have NO idea when that started...) It was similar with UCCS.

The UC trustees tried hard to stifle Colorado State's athletics as well. Their argument in the State Board of Higher Ed. was that the State only needed ONE Division 1 program. Everyone else competed at D2 or lower. (Colorado College in Colorado Springs was D3 for all sports except Hockey, which they competed at the D1 level...) Metro State looked at moving to D1 (they are prohibited in their charter from ever sponsoring FB), but as a State institution they were blocked at moving their BB to D1 by CU. It was probably a wise move. (I voted against it as a student....)

The point is that UC-CS would not have been allowed to have had D1 sports...with or without the presence of the AFA. CU would never have allowed it.

Not to mention that, for most of its history, Colorado Springs was NOT a major metropolitan area. When I moved to Colorado in 1979, it was a rather small city, with a very small airport (with only commuter service). It had been wildly overbuilt in the 1980's and when the first "Savings and Loan" scandal hit in 1986 (Silverado...run by the Bush family, FWIW) the city was devastated with a vacancy and default rate akin to Florida in 2008. The Academy sits WELL outside of town (on the Palmer Divide). The biggest industries for the area were Fort Carson (a major Army armor base and maneuvering range), NORAD (again outside of town), Peterson AFB (though this is a more recent upgrade), and Evangelical Christianity. We used to joke about Boulder being "The People's Republic of Boulder," and Colorado Springs likewise being the "Knee-jerk Reactionary" compliment to Boulder.

And in the middle, sat Denver.

But I digress.

I used to lived in Colorado Springs from 1976 to 1980. To me, the city was large at the time for me being a kid who used to lived in smaller towns like Post Falls Idaho, Anacortes Washington, or Parker Arizona.

There is also a 4th college in town. It is I think a community college as well in the southwest part of the city. As the time have changed, the thinking is differently right now because of the rising costs of athletics. I could see schools like Colorado State-Pueblo, Colorado Mesa, Western State, Fort Lewis and maybe Colorado-Colorado Springs join D1 ranks, and maybe Metro State. Scheduling OOC games for olympic sports could help Colorado, Colorado State, Denver and Air Force which in turn help bring their spending out of the negative. The view back then was that the cost of travel was not a big issue. Now, traveling, staying at hotels, food and all that does eat up a lot of money that could be saved if they have more schools up at D1. Too bad Colorado State have not the support back then, but they could be the Auburn to Colorado's Alabama in the PAC 12. You have smaller populated states have a duel memberships in the P5 conferences. Since Colorado is a large populated state, they only have 1.

(07-04-2016 10:12 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(07-04-2016 01:06 AM)lew240z Wrote:  

(07-03-2016 09:29 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(07-03-2016 01:43 AM)lew240z Wrote:  

(07-02-2016 11:37 PM)NoDak Wrote:  They would have gravitated to conference affiliation more with Navy and Army. The MAC may have been stronger as a result, but the American still could have reeled them in. Would have introduced college lax and hockey much earlier to that neck of the woods.

UC-Colorado Springs would have been DI decades before.

Decades before what? UCCS, established in 1964, isn't D1 now and the location of the Air Force Academy doesn't effect that one way or the other. UCCS is one third the size of the other two UC system schools and CSU. It is smaller than RMAC conference mate Metro State and slightly larger than Colorado Mesa.

UCCS has a very similar history to other DI FBS schools like USA, UTSA, USF, etc. If Colo Springs didn't have the AFA, businesses in that city would have seen a way for UC CS to be DI in some way. Colo Springs would have had a DI team, and probably an FBS one. Colorado College in DI hockey would not have been enough.

Once again, UCCS is not now and never has been D1. Whether or not the AFA was nearby is not relevant. I grew up in the area. I have relatives in the area. I know Colorado politics. The powers that be in northern Colorado will never allow a school in the southern part of the state to rival Boulder. I would be surprised if UCCS is even allowed to start a D2 football team.

Not only that, but for the majority of their histories, CU (Boulder) kept a pretty tight stranglehold on the rest of the CU system, forbidding them to have athletics at all. The CU system was first viewed as a "compliment" to UC (Boulder) and then as a "feeder" system. So, UC-Denver (as an example...which I attended for a year between attending Metro State on the SAME campus), was started as a purely GRADUATE program school, offering masters level programs that could compliment CU (Boulder). Then they added bachelors' level programs that were intended to "prime" students and get them into the CU system so that they would complete their studies (and be ready to move to Boulder for Graduate studies). It's only recently that UC-D actually became a self-sufficient, stand-alone school...and they actually have athletics now, I gather as well. (I have NO idea when that started...) It was similar with UCCS.

The UC trustees tried hard to stifle Colorado State's athletics as well. Their argument in the State Board of Higher Ed. was that the State only needed ONE Division 1 program. Everyone else competed at D2 or lower. (Colorado College in Colorado Springs was D3 for all sports except Hockey, which they competed at the D1 level...) Metro State looked at moving to D1 (they are prohibited in their charter from ever sponsoring FB), but as a State institution they were blocked at moving their BB to D1 by CU. It was probably a wise move. (I voted against it as a student....)

The point is that UC-CS would not have been allowed to have had D1 sports...with or without the presence of the AFA. CU would never have allowed it.

Not to mention that, for most of its history, Colorado Springs was NOT a major metropolitan area. When I moved to Colorado in 1979, it was a rather small city, with a very small airport (with only commuter service). It had been wildly overbuilt in the 1980's and when the first "Savings and Loan" scandal hit in 1986 (Silverado...run by the Bush family, FWIW) the city was devastated with a vacancy and default rate akin to Florida in 2008. The Academy sits WELL outside of town (on the Palmer Divide). The biggest industries for the area were Fort Carson (a major Army armor base and maneuvering range), NORAD (again outside of town), Peterson AFB (though this is a more recent upgrade), and Evangelical Christianity. We used to joke about Boulder being "The People's Republic of Boulder," and Colorado Springs likewise being the "Knee-jerk Reactionary" compliment to Boulder.

And in the middle, sat Denver.

But I digress.

Ever considered that legislatures control purse strings and they are responsive to voters and civic organizations?

Practically every state flagship hasn't wanted DI or academic competition, but it eventually happens. Ohio State ring a bell?

AFA made other college sports in the Springs practically nonfeasible, so they haven't been attempted like in other similarly sized cities. Why would UCCS even attempt DI now with the AFA sports presence? That was my point. If the AFA wasn't there, they would have tried by now and succeeded.

Colo Springs in the 80's tried to have a Silicon Mountain competition to Silicon Valley. That fizzled out but there was high hopes. Now it has mostly software firms, so it is more than a military town.

(07-02-2016 02:52 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  Just read somewhere that besides Colorado Springs, the two other finalists in 1954 to get the AFA were Alton, Illinois and Lake Geneva, Wisconsin. What would conferences look like today if either of those schools had won (assuming their athletic history was about the same)? I'm guessing they'd be in the MAC, but depending on how big of a following they received you can't completely rule out something like the AAC. Going independent for football and something like the Horizon for everything else might've made sense too.

My understanding is that the land which eventually became the abandoned Bong Air Force base was originally slated to be the site of the Air Force Academy, but the locals objected. They started building an Air Force base instead, but deemed it obsolete almost immediately after construction started. It is now a WI state park/rec area, the Bong Recreation Area. Great name, huh?

Having the AFA in Wisconsin might have changed conference affiliations in the midwest. Marquette toyed with the idea of joining the Valley in the 50s. Maybe it and AFA would have joined together. Who knows?

That part of southern Illinois is a pretty miserable part of the country. Hot, humid, prone to flooding, relatively poor, and a bit remote even though a major American city is just down the road.

Not that any of that is exclusive to southern Illinois or Alton specifically, but it's not really a location befitting a service academy like a West Point or Annapolis.

We can only assume the area would have changed and improved with a military base there. They could put a military base in Detroit (insert joke) and it would still thrive and start the process of gentrifying the area. That may not even be a bad idea on multiple fronts.

(07-05-2016 01:18 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  That part of southern Illinois is a pretty miserable part of the country. Hot, humid, prone to flooding, relatively poor, and a bit remote even though a major American city is just down the road.

Not that any of that is exclusive to southern Illinois or Alton specifically, but it's not really a location befitting a service academy like a West Point or Annapolis.

Alton is a St. Louis suburb. Its right in the metro area.

They would be in Wisconsin or Illinois. Then they would probably not be the MWC, I think they would be similar to Army and Navy and be independent and football for awhile and be part of the Patriot for all sports. Would probably be in the American right now with Navy.

(07-04-2016 08:09 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(07-04-2016 10:12 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(07-04-2016 01:06 AM)lew240z Wrote:  

(07-03-2016 09:29 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(07-03-2016 01:43 AM)lew240z Wrote:  Decades before what? UCCS, established in 1964, isn't D1 now and the location of the Air Force Academy doesn't effect that one way or the other. UCCS is one third the size of the other two UC system schools and CSU. It is smaller than RMAC conference mate Metro State and slightly larger than Colorado Mesa.

UCCS has a very similar history to other DI FBS schools like USA, UTSA, USF, etc. If Colo Springs didn't have the AFA, businesses in that city would have seen a way for UC CS to be DI in some way. Colo Springs would have had a DI team, and probably an FBS one. Colorado College in DI hockey would not have been enough.

Once again, UCCS is not now and never has been D1. Whether or not the AFA was nearby is not relevant. I grew up in the area. I have relatives in the area. I know Colorado politics. The powers that be in northern Colorado will never allow a school in the southern part of the state to rival Boulder. I would be surprised if UCCS is even allowed to start a D2 football team.

Not only that, but for the majority of their histories, CU (Boulder) kept a pretty tight stranglehold on the rest of the CU system, forbidding them to have athletics at all. The CU system was first viewed as a "compliment" to UC (Boulder) and then as a "feeder" system. So, UC-Denver (as an example...which I attended for a year between attending Metro State on the SAME campus), was started as a purely GRADUATE program school, offering masters level programs that could compliment CU (Boulder). Then they added bachelors' level programs that were intended to "prime" students and get them into the CU system so that they would complete their studies (and be ready to move to Boulder for Graduate studies). It's only recently that UC-D actually became a self-sufficient, stand-alone school...and they actually have athletics now, I gather as well. (I have NO idea when that started...) It was similar with UCCS.

The UC trustees tried hard to stifle Colorado State's athletics as well. Their argument in the State Board of Higher Ed. was that the State only needed ONE Division 1 program. Everyone else competed at D2 or lower. (Colorado College in Colorado Springs was D3 for all sports except Hockey, which they competed at the D1 level...) Metro State looked at moving to D1 (they are prohibited in their charter from ever sponsoring FB), but as a State institution they were blocked at moving their BB to D1 by CU. It was probably a wise move. (I voted against it as a student....)

The point is that UC-CS would not have been allowed to have had D1 sports...with or without the presence of the AFA. CU would never have allowed it.

Not to mention that, for most of its history, Colorado Springs was NOT a major metropolitan area. When I moved to Colorado in 1979, it was a rather small city, with a very small airport (with only commuter service). It had been wildly overbuilt in the 1980's and when the first "Savings and Loan" scandal hit in 1986 (Silverado...run by the Bush family, FWIW) the city was devastated with a vacancy and default rate akin to Florida in 2008. The Academy sits WELL outside of town (on the Palmer Divide). The biggest industries for the area were Fort Carson (a major Army armor base and maneuvering range), NORAD (again outside of town), Peterson AFB (though this is a more recent upgrade), and Evangelical Christianity. We used to joke about Boulder being "The People's Republic of Boulder," and Colorado Springs likewise being the "Knee-jerk Reactionary" compliment to Boulder.

And in the middle, sat Denver.

But I digress.

I used to lived in Colorado Springs from 1976 to 1980. To me, the city was large at the time for me being a kid who used to lived in smaller towns like Post Falls Idaho, Anacortes Washington, or Parker Arizona.

There is also a 4th college in town. It is I think a community college as well in the southwest part of the city. As the time have changed, the thinking is differently right now because of the rising costs of athletics. I could see schools like Colorado State-Pueblo, Colorado Mesa, Western State, Fort Lewis and maybe Colorado-Colorado Springs join D1 ranks, and maybe Metro State. Scheduling OOC games for olympic sports could help Colorado, Colorado State, Denver and Air Force which in turn help bring their spending out of the negative. The view back then was that the cost of travel was not a big issue. Now, traveling, staying at hotels, food and all that does eat up a lot of money that could be saved if they have more schools up at D1. Too bad Colorado State have not the support back then, but they could be the Auburn to Colorado's Alabama in the PAC 12. You have smaller populated states have a duel memberships in the P5 conferences. Since Colorado is a large populated state, they only have 1.

I feel CSU's pain, only more. Ohio, with a population more than double that of Colorado, also has only one P5 program.

Ohio makes up for it with 7 programs at the G5 level.

(07-08-2016 10:04 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Ohio makes up for it with 7 programs at the G5 level.

Apples and oranges.