(06-30-2016 03:29 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(06-30-2016 02:31 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Sub & Shox,

Current is 4 private/6 public, why wouldn't they add Valpo to get to 5/5 ?


Where are IL St, IN St, UNI, MO St and S Ill reasonably going to go?? Seems like any other regional DI conf (non-FB and FCS) would be a downgrade in bball. Don't think the MAC would take any. Maybe Sun Belt for MO St.

Because I don't think the public schools will allow it is why. Especially considering the private schools are pretty much the bottom 4 in the Valley when it comes to athletics.

I don't know where they'll go, but if the MVC continues to replace teams with teams that will finish near the bottom and bring nothing else to the table then they'll look elsewhere. We've already lost ground in basketball and others have gained quite a bit and if the top of the conference leaves for one of those nearby in ranking, that conference will easily move ahead of the MVC.

Us and Bradley have been down in basketball that's why the MVC has took the nose dive in that sport. We should have a pretty good team this year, 20+ wins. If that doesn't happen Lusk is gone. Bradley made a pretty good hire, but that team was just gutted. Get us two back in the top 6, attendance, RPI, and MVC tournament attendance will go back up as well.

(06-30-2016 02:31 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Sub & Shox,

Current is 4 private/6 public, why wouldn't they add Valpo to get to 5/5 ?


Where are IL St, IN St, UNI, MO St and S Ill reasonably going to go?? Seems like any other regional DI conf (non-FB and FCS) would be a downgrade in bball. Don't think the MAC would take any. Maybe Sun Belt for MO St.

Outside of Bradley, the rest of the Privates are low budget bottom feeders in almost all of the conference sports. Another private making it 50/50 swings the power their way and budget constraints will come in order to save money.

(06-30-2016 03:35 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(06-30-2016 03:29 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(06-30-2016 02:31 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Sub & Shox,

Current is 4 private/6 public, why wouldn't they add Valpo to get to 5/5 ?


Where are IL St, IN St, UNI, MO St and S Ill reasonably going to go?? Seems like any other regional DI conf (non-FB and FCS) would be a downgrade in bball. Don't think the MAC would take any. Maybe Sun Belt for MO St.

Because I don't think the public schools will allow it is why. Especially considering the private schools are pretty much the bottom 4 in the Valley when it comes to athletics.

I don't know where they'll go, but if the MVC continues to replace teams with teams that will finish near the bottom and bring nothing else to the table then they'll look elsewhere. We've already lost ground in basketball and others have gained quite a bit and if the top of the conference leaves for one of those nearby in ranking, that conference will easily move ahead of the MVC.

Us and Bradley have been down in basketball that's why the MVC has took the nose dive in that sport. We should have a pretty good team this year, 20+ wins. If that doesn't happen Lusk is gone. Bradley made a pretty good hire, but that team was just gutted. Get us two back in the top 6, attendance, RPI, and MVC tournament attendance will go back up as well.

That's definitely true about you and BU, but we still have UE getting much worse and complacent with a coach that will never challenge his team. We still have a Loyola that is just happy to be here. We still have a Drake that somehow continues to get worse. I'm not sure what's going to happen with SIU. The Trees do more with less than most but that's a risky game and their financial situation sucks, much like the IL schools. ISUr is playing a risky game of ignoring character while recruiting and that could blow up at any minute.

Maybe I'm overly negative, maybe not. I've supported the MVC and talked about its potential for a number of years only to see so many schools seem to stop making a real effort to improve. I tried to support the Loyola decision by seeing it from their POV but I'm losing patience with that. I might feel a little better if we'd just expand to 12 with the Dakotas but that will never happen.

Personally, in a perfect world, I'd love to see us, you, UNI and Bradley find a way out and into better situations. I think you all deserve a better chance than what I feel the Valley now provides.

(06-30-2016 03:47 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(06-30-2016 03:35 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(06-30-2016 03:29 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(06-30-2016 02:31 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Sub & Shox,

Current is 4 private/6 public, why wouldn't they add Valpo to get to 5/5 ?


Where are IL St, IN St, UNI, MO St and S Ill reasonably going to go?? Seems like any other regional DI conf (non-FB and FCS) would be a downgrade in bball. Don't think the MAC would take any. Maybe Sun Belt for MO St.

Because I don't think the public schools will allow it is why. Especially considering the private schools are pretty much the bottom 4 in the Valley when it comes to athletics.

I don't know where they'll go, but if the MVC continues to replace teams with teams that will finish near the bottom and bring nothing else to the table then they'll look elsewhere. We've already lost ground in basketball and others have gained quite a bit and if the top of the conference leaves for one of those nearby in ranking, that conference will easily move ahead of the MVC.

Us and Bradley have been down in basketball that's why the MVC has took the nose dive in that sport. We should have a pretty good team this year, 20+ wins. If that doesn't happen Lusk is gone. Bradley made a pretty good hire, but that team was just gutted. Get us two back in the top 6, attendance, RPI, and MVC tournament attendance will go back up as well.

That's definitely true about you and BU, but we still have UE getting much worse and complacent with a coach that will never challenge his team. We still have a Loyola that is just happy to be here. We still have a Drake that somehow continues to get worse. I'm not sure what's going to happen with SIU. The Trees do more with less than most but that's a risky game and their financial situation sucks, much like the IL schools. ISUr is playing a risky game of ignoring character while recruiting and that could blow up at any minute.

Maybe I'm overly negative, maybe not. I've supported the MVC and talked about its potential for a number of years only to see so many schools seem to stop making a real effort to improve. I tried to support the Loyola decision by seeing it from their POV but I'm losing patience with that. I might feel a little better if we'd just expand to 12 with the Dakotas but that will never happen.

Personally, in a perfect world, I'd love to see us, you, UNI and Bradley find a way out and into better situations. I think you all deserve a better chance than what I feel the Valley now provides.

We honestly did need to be in the Chicago market. An Illinois student can attend Missouri State cheaper than they can go to SIU, Illinois State, etc. I would preferred UIC to Loyola. At least they have their games on ESPN radio in Chicago and has a baseball team. But Loyola is rock solid academically and has cash that's the extent to it.

(06-30-2016 03:47 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(06-30-2016 03:35 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(06-30-2016 03:29 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(06-30-2016 02:31 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Sub & Shox,

Current is 4 private/6 public, why wouldn't they add Valpo to get to 5/5 ?


Where are IL St, IN St, UNI, MO St and S Ill reasonably going to go?? Seems like any other regional DI conf (non-FB and FCS) would be a downgrade in bball. Don't think the MAC would take any. Maybe Sun Belt for MO St.

Because I don't think the public schools will allow it is why. Especially considering the private schools are pretty much the bottom 4 in the Valley when it comes to athletics.

I don't know where they'll go, but if the MVC continues to replace teams with teams that will finish near the bottom and bring nothing else to the table then they'll look elsewhere. We've already lost ground in basketball and others have gained quite a bit and if the top of the conference leaves for one of those nearby in ranking, that conference will easily move ahead of the MVC.

Us and Bradley have been down in basketball that's why the MVC has took the nose dive in that sport. We should have a pretty good team this year, 20+ wins. If that doesn't happen Lusk is gone. Bradley made a pretty good hire, but that team was just gutted. Get us two back in the top 6, attendance, RPI, and MVC tournament attendance will go back up as well.

That's definitely true about you and BU, but we still have UE getting much worse and complacent with a coach that will never challenge his team. We still have a Loyola that is just happy to be here. We still have a Drake that somehow continues to get worse. I'm not sure what's going to happen with SIU. The Trees do more with less than most but that's a risky game and their financial situation sucks, much like the IL schools. ISUr is playing a risky game of ignoring character while recruiting and that could blow up at any minute.

Realistically if Wichita, Missouri State, Illinois St, UNI, Bradley, SIU, and Indiana State are in the top 7, we are going to be fine as a conference. Drake serves their purpose well. Evansville and Loyola can fly a kite IMO.

I still don't see how we're any more relevant in Chicago than we were before Loyola. But maybe it has an impact on MSU that it doesn't Wichita.

I know the western 5 were in favor of it because they can practically walk there, but it did nothing but weaken the MVC. Valpo has more relevance to the city of Chicago than either UIC or Loyola when it comes to athletics. Even Loyola fans complain about how they get next to no coverage from media but so many others do. Loyola was a mistake.

Sub & MSB,

What are you honest opinions about NDSU and SDSU and how they'd make the MVC better or worse overall?

(NOT asking if you think they have a chance to get in)

(06-30-2016 05:01 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Sub & MSB,

What are you honest opinions about NDSU and SDSU and how they'd make the MVC better or worse overall?

(NOT asking if you think they have a chance to get in)

They would both absolutely make the MVC stronger. And I think the MVC could possibly make them stronger as well as there would be more exposure I believe. I'm talking mostly from a men's basketball perspective. I'd say in any given year they'd compete for a top 3 spot. I feel pretty confident that more often than not Wichita and UNI will be around the top of the conference. Others have the potential to make runs but it's been a while since we've seen anyone else sustain a higher level of play. SDSU and NDSU both have the ability to keep their programs at respectable to high levels. And if we added you two, I think the MVC could be guaranteed at least 2 spots in the tournament most years and have chances at 3 or even 4 depending on how others improve.

I don't know enough about your other sports to say one way or the other how that would go, but think you'd fit in well and have good success in basketball. Maybe it'd help you land in better MTE's or even just your noncon schedule. I have no idea but the MVC is still perceived at a higher level than what we've been lately and that helps some in scheduling. I think as successful as the two Dakota's have been they could stand to benefit from the extra exposure they would get through ESPN and the regional Fox Sports coverage. I'm assuming the MVC offers more there than the Summit does. Your addition might even expand our Fox coverage as I don't think FSNMW covers the Dakota's and Minnesota but I could be wrong.

If it had been up to me, we'd have gone after both of you before Creighton left and then gone after Valpo since both Denver and Belmont declined. I don't care that it would have left an 8-4 split on the public/private debate, it would have improved the conference more than waiting for CU to leave and then pulling the weakest private school under consideration.

If and when Wichita State adds football? Do you think the other publics want to stay with the MVFC and MVC? I do not think so. Can a Wichita State and New Mexico State lobby for a new FBS conference that offer all sports?

West:
New Mexico State/West Texas A&M
North Dakota State/South Dakota State
South Dakota/Northern Iowa

Those would be travel partners.

East:
Missouri State/Southern Illinois
Illinois State/Indiana State
Youngstown State/Eastern Kentucky

Those 6 would be travel partners.

Western Illinois could slip into OVC with Eastern Illinois.

Remember, the MVFC schools want to keep the paychecks coming in from the Big 10 since Big 10 new rules that they can't play FCS schools anymore. There have been some very good rivalry games between Big 10 and MVFC.

North Dakota State/Minnesota
Illinois/Illinois State
Indiana/Indiana State
Iowa/Northern Iowa

Those are examples. For them to continue the long instate rivalries, the MVFC must upgrade to FBS to keep it going. Some of the best football games come between those 2 conferences.

(06-30-2016 05:01 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Sub & MSB,

What are you honest opinions about NDSU and SDSU and how they'd make the MVC better or worse overall?

(NOT asking if you think they have a chance to get in)

Both would be outstanding additions. Very similar to how Missouri State and UNI was in the Mid-Con before they joined the Valley in the early 90s. Great academics, solid all around sports, passionate fan bases, flagship universities. Travel sucks and small population down side. They have flat out dominated the Summit Conference all sports wise.

Sub & MSB,

Appreciate the kind words towards both programs. I think both have really upped the ante, so to speak, in the facilities game, with SDSU actually taking the lead there.

That said, the Dakotas (minus UND) have a really good thing going in the Summit, IMO. It's basically "our" league. In the MVC, we'd have to fight with WSU and UNI in bball, for sure, and other programs in probably all sports.

(06-29-2016 09:06 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

Kittonhead ' Wrote:  Would the SBC be willing to take in Wichita and Missouri St?

Probably a combo that could gain acceptance.

The SBC was practically begging Mo St to hop on board, but it flatly rejected them.

Sun Belt basketball is seen as a big demotion by WSU and Mo St.

Before the next CFP contract, my bet is CUSA will split in two, with a low level ACC2 and a new Southwest Conference. WSU and Mo St are positioning themselves, at worst case, for the new Southwest Conference. Best case is the AAC or MWC. But it in meantime they need an FBS bid that doesn't damage basketball.

Flat rejection from Missouri State isn't the case.
They played at AState this year and took a beating. MoSt official said "well guess that ends any Sun Belt interest." AState official laughed and said "Your football isn't what got us interested." The Bears are working on their stadium and just haven't gotten the pieces in place to make a call on moving to FBS.

Arkansas State and Arkansas-Little Rock can bus to Springfield, the Springfield TV market abuts the Jonesboro and Little Rock TV markets, ULM could easily bus to MoSt if they wanted to.

Louisiana Lafayette is not going to oppose a quality baseball program in the region.

The rub for Wichita State and Missouri State right now is the Sun Belt's comfort level with the 10/12 alignment. Olympic sports split up easily in the divisional format, the west is two from Texas, two from Louisiana and two from Arkansas. In football it will be one Texas, one Arkansas, two Louisiana, and most likely split up the Alabama schools.

The geographic mess is only in football where the Alabama school going west misses one east trip and as long as USA/Troy play every year, it's not a significant difference in travel.

If the Sun Belt were to add Missouri State and Wichita State in football it is orderly with the two MVC schools, AState, TXST, UL Lafayette and ULM in the west. In other sports you have to shift an Arkansas or Louisiana school to the east and the team shifted comes out worse off in travel.

The core problem for FBS Wichita State is that any league that might be willing to take them barring some dramatic realignment isn't going to be acceptable to the hoops fans without a great education and sales job by the WSU administration and even then might not take.

(07-01-2016 12:11 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The core problem for FBS Wichita State is that any league that might be willing to take them barring some dramatic realignment isn't going to be acceptable to the hoops fans without a great education and sales job by the WSU administration and even then might not take.

Except if you remove Wichita from the calculations, the MVC really isn't stronger, or much stronger, than the Belt or MAC. Though I know the MAC would be an even longer shot than others. CUSA is struggling though and that would be a concern. But the odds are that the only way into say an AAC or MWC may be through something like the Belt and I know I and a number of others who've looked at the numbers would be ok with that knowing that our sights are still set higher. No guarantees, but more opportunities.

CUSA is the one that makes most of us pause and wonder though. But you're right, to the average fan that knows nothing about the Belt it would take some work to convince them, but I think that's doable. Especially if the Belt continues to improve the basketball product.

(07-01-2016 02:09 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(07-01-2016 12:11 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The core problem for FBS Wichita State is that any league that might be willing to take them barring some dramatic realignment isn't going to be acceptable to the hoops fans without a great education and sales job by the WSU administration and even then might not take.

Except if you remove Wichita from the calculations, the MVC really isn't stronger, or much stronger, than the Belt or MAC. Though I know the MAC would be an even longer shot than others. CUSA is struggling though and that would be a concern. But the odds are that the only way into say an AAC or MWC may be through something like the Belt and I know I and a number of others who've looked at the numbers would be ok with that knowing that our sights are still set higher. No guarantees, but more opportunities.

CUSA is the one that makes most of us pause and wonder though. But you're right, to the average fan that knows nothing about the Belt it would take some work to convince them, but I think that's doable. Especially if the Belt continues to improve the basketball product.

Well when Wichita football was first brought up, I pointed out that sans the Shockers, the Valley and Sun Belt were near identical and you'd have thought I announced I was a vegan at a Cattlemens Association Banquet.

(07-01-2016 02:24 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(07-01-2016 02:09 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(07-01-2016 12:11 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The core problem for FBS Wichita State is that any league that might be willing to take them barring some dramatic realignment isn't going to be acceptable to the hoops fans without a great education and sales job by the WSU administration and even then might not take.

Except if you remove Wichita from the calculations, the MVC really isn't stronger, or much stronger, than the Belt or MAC. Though I know the MAC would be an even longer shot than others. CUSA is struggling though and that would be a concern. But the odds are that the only way into say an AAC or MWC may be through something like the Belt and I know I and a number of others who've looked at the numbers would be ok with that knowing that our sights are still set higher. No guarantees, but more opportunities.

CUSA is the one that makes most of us pause and wonder though. But you're right, to the average fan that knows nothing about the Belt it would take some work to convince them, but I think that's doable. Especially if the Belt continues to improve the basketball product.

Well when Wichita football was first brought up, I pointed out that sans the Shockers, the Valley and Sun Belt were near identical and you'd have thought I announced I was a vegan at a Cattlemens Association Banquet.

I would have until I started looking at actual numbers. But there really isn't much difference at this point especially if Little Rock and Arlington can keep things at a respectable level. Being that basketball is their focal point you'd think they'll do everything they can to keep a good product. It's been a while since I've looked at things but I do know there were a few others that weren't looking too bad.