NDSU may not turn down if the offer comes if they would join MWC. They could have a chance to gain an access bowl when they become eligible after they upgrade. I do not think they want to join a reform WAC, MAC, C-USA or Sun Belt.

MWC:Boise State, TCU, Utah, Hawaii and Fresno State (came close) combined the most.

AAC:Houston, UCF, UConn have been to bigger bowl games.

MAC:Northern Illinois

C-USA:None, Houston and Marshall came close.

Sun Belt:None

Wichita State, UTEP, Rice, North Dakota State and maybe Montana could ditch Montana State to be part of the MWC for a better chance at the access bowl. WAC does not have any access to bowl games until they set up a MWC/WAC, MAC/WAC, WAC/C-USA setup. More boels could be created. Sun Belt could get the Little Rock bowl going. They could get it a WAC/Sun Belt or Sun Belt/C-USA matchup.

(06-27-2016 01:45 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  NDSU may not turn down if the offer comes if they would join MWC. They could have a chance to gain an access bowl when they become eligible after they upgrade. I do not think they want to join a reform WAC, MAC, C-USA or Sun Belt.

MWC:Boise State, TCU, Utah, Hawaii and Fresno State (came close) combined the most.

AAC:Houston, UCF, UConn have been to bigger bowl games.

MAC:Northern Illinois

C-USA:None, Houston and Marshall came close.

Sun Belt:None

Wichita State, UTEP, Rice, North Dakota State and maybe Montana could ditch Montana State to be part of the MWC for a better chance at the access bowl. WAC does not have any access to bowl games until they set up a MWC/WAC, MAC/WAC, WAC/C-USA setup. More boels could be created. Sun Belt could get the Little Rock bowl going. They could get it a WAC/Sun Belt or Sun Belt/C-USA matchup.

Im not seeing the motivation that would spur the MW to add those schools.

(06-27-2016 02:22 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-27-2016 01:45 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  NDSU may not turn down if the offer comes if they would join MWC. They could have a chance to gain an access bowl when they become eligible after they upgrade. I do not think they want to join a reform WAC, MAC, C-USA or Sun Belt.

MWC:Boise State, TCU, Utah, Hawaii and Fresno State (came close) combined the most.

AAC:Houston, UCF, UConn have been to bigger bowl games.

MAC:Northern Illinois

C-USA:None, Houston and Marshall came close.

Sun Belt:None

Wichita State, UTEP, Rice, North Dakota State and maybe Montana could ditch Montana State to be part of the MWC for a better chance at the access bowl. WAC does not have any access to bowl games until they set up a MWC/WAC, MAC/WAC, WAC/C-USA setup. More boels could be created. Sun Belt could get the Little Rock bowl going. They could get it a WAC/Sun Belt or Sun Belt/C-USA matchup.

Im not seeing the motivation that would spur the MW to add those schools.

If we didn't add UTEP and Rice which are 10x's more populous than ND, then we won't add anybody unless to fill in a vacated spot or if BYU decides it want's back in.

(06-27-2016 01:45 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  NDSU may not turn down if the offer comes if they would join MWC. They could have a chance to gain an access bowl when they become eligible after they upgrade. I do not think they want to join a reform WAC, MAC, C-USA or Sun Belt.

MWC:Boise State, TCU, Utah, Hawaii and Fresno State (came close) combined the most.

AAC:Houston, UCF, UConn have been to bigger bowl games.

MAC:Northern Illinois

C-USA:None, Houston and Marshall came close.

Sun Belt:None

Wichita State, UTEP, Rice, North Dakota State and maybe Montana could ditch Montana State to be part of the MWC for a better chance at the access bowl. WAC does not have any access to bowl games until they set up a MWC/WAC, MAC/WAC, WAC/C-USA setup. More boels could be created. Sun Belt could get the Little Rock bowl going. They could get it a WAC/Sun Belt or Sun Belt/C-USA matchup.

The Bible says to never answer a fool to his folly. But since I'm bored:
"NDSU may not turn down the offer if the MWC invites them"---Yes, NDSU might not turn down the MWC if offered. But first off, why would the MWC offer them again?

Cheers!

(06-27-2016 03:05 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(06-27-2016 01:45 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  NDSU may not turn down if the offer comes if they would join MWC. They could have a chance to gain an access bowl when they become eligible after they upgrade. I do not think they want to join a reform WAC, MAC, C-USA or Sun Belt.

MWC:Boise State, TCU, Utah, Hawaii and Fresno State (came close) combined the most.

AAC:Houston, UCF, UConn have been to bigger bowl games.

MAC:Northern Illinois

C-USA:None, Houston and Marshall came close.

Sun Belt:None

Wichita State, UTEP, Rice, North Dakota State and maybe Montana could ditch Montana State to be part of the MWC for a better chance at the access bowl. WAC does not have any access to bowl games until they set up a MWC/WAC, MAC/WAC, WAC/C-USA setup. More boels could be created. Sun Belt could get the Little Rock bowl going. They could get it a WAC/Sun Belt or Sun Belt/C-USA matchup.

The Bible says to never answer a fool to his folly. But since I'm bored:
"NDSU may not turn down the offer if the MWC invites them"---Yes, NDSU might not turn down the MWC if offered. But first off, why would the MWC offer them again?

Cheers!

Heck, if the CURRENT MWC offered NAU, we'd jump in a heartbeat...

(06-27-2016 03:05 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(06-27-2016 01:45 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  NDSU may not turn down if the offer comes if they would join MWC. They could have a chance to gain an access bowl when they become eligible after they upgrade. I do not think they want to join a reform WAC, MAC, C-USA or Sun Belt.

MWC:Boise State, TCU, Utah, Hawaii and Fresno State (came close) combined the most.

AAC:Houston, UCF, UConn have been to bigger bowl games.

MAC:Northern Illinois

C-USA:None, Houston and Marshall came close.

Sun Belt:None

Wichita State, UTEP, Rice, North Dakota State and maybe Montana could ditch Montana State to be part of the MWC for a better chance at the access bowl. WAC does not have any access to bowl games until they set up a MWC/WAC, MAC/WAC, WAC/C-USA setup. More boels could be created. Sun Belt could get the Little Rock bowl going. They could get it a WAC/Sun Belt or Sun Belt/C-USA matchup.

The Bible says to never answer a fool to his folly. But since I'm bored:
"NDSU may not turn down the offer if the MWC invites them"---Yes, NDSU might not turn down the MWC if offered. But first off, why would the MWC offer them again?

Cheers!

It would cause a clash of the Titans in the MWC when you have 2 of the best programs at D1 with wins with Boise State and NDSU. That would get an ESPN prime time ticket right there. It would boast MWC strength adding a couple of good teams like Montana and NDSU. Those 2 teams are better than UTEP and Rice right now in football. Wichita State would bring in a very good basketball program.

(06-27-2016 04:27 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-27-2016 03:05 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(06-27-2016 01:45 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  NDSU may not turn down if the offer comes if they would join MWC. They could have a chance to gain an access bowl when they become eligible after they upgrade. I do not think they want to join a reform WAC, MAC, C-USA or Sun Belt.

MWC:Boise State, TCU, Utah, Hawaii and Fresno State (came close) combined the most.

AAC:Houston, UCF, UConn have been to bigger bowl games.

MAC:Northern Illinois

C-USA:None, Houston and Marshall came close.

Sun Belt:None

Wichita State, UTEP, Rice, North Dakota State and maybe Montana could ditch Montana State to be part of the MWC for a better chance at the access bowl. WAC does not have any access to bowl games until they set up a MWC/WAC, MAC/WAC, WAC/C-USA setup. More boels could be created. Sun Belt could get the Little Rock bowl going. They could get it a WAC/Sun Belt or Sun Belt/C-USA matchup.

The Bible says to never answer a fool to his folly. But since I'm bored:
"NDSU may not turn down the offer if the MWC invites them"---Yes, NDSU might not turn down the MWC if offered. But first off, why would the MWC offer them again?

Cheers!

It would cause a clash of the Titans in the MWC when you have 2 of the best programs at D1 with wins with Boise State and NDSU. That would get an ESPN prime time ticket right there. It would boast MWC strength adding a couple of good teams like Montana and NDSU. Those 2 teams are better than UTEP and Rice right now in football. Wichita State would bring in a very good basketball program.

This is probably one of your better ideas David.

MWC to 14 with Wichita and NDSU wouldn't be too bad.

It wouldn't be too great either....

(06-27-2016 01:45 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  NDSU may not turn down if the offer comes if they would join MWC. They could have a chance to gain an access bowl when they become eligible after they upgrade. I do not think they want to join a reform WAC, MAC, C-USA or Sun Belt.

MWC:Boise State, TCU, Utah, Hawaii and Fresno State (came close) combined the most.

AAC:Houston, UCF, UConn have been to bigger bowl games.

MAC:Northern Illinois

C-USA:None, Houston and Marshall came close.

Sun Belt:None

Wichita State, UTEP, Rice, North Dakota State and maybe Montana could ditch Montana State to be part of the MWC for a better chance at the access bowl. WAC does not have any access to bowl games until they set up a MWC/WAC, MAC/WAC, WAC/C-USA setup. More boels could be created. Sun Belt could get the Little Rock bowl going. They could get it a WAC/Sun Belt or Sun Belt/C-USA matchup.

ark st (#37),

And your entire post is preempted by "ROI" being a false/incompatible ideology for college athletics at the G5 level, in the first place. If cost-containment and/or revenue generation is/are your goal(s), then you're in the wrong sub-division, bub.

FBS is a nice thing. It's an expensive thing. If you want to play the game at that level, then buck up and pay the costs. If not, then don't. It has really nothing to do with anything else.


Bish (#38),

This is my opinion: Bohl has one dream -- to be head coach at a Big 12 or Big Ten program. Obviously he'd love Nebraska, but not sure they'll "forgive" him there. I think he thought his winning at NDSU was going to propel him directly into the position, but then reality set in. He interviewed for Colorado St and they went for a P5 assistant instead, who is now HC at Florida.

So the next time he had an opportunity at the MWC, he jumped at it. If he can build Wyoming into a winner, some P5 will take a chance on him as HC (Tiller to Purdue, for example). I wish him the best of luck, but his first two seasons at Wyoming have been terrible.

From what I hear, it's a very difficult place to recruit because NCAA rules prohibit flying in recruits on charter/private air and there is literally no commercial air service to the state. So recruits have to fly into Denver, then bus up.


Nodak (#39),

Bohl's 2006 & 2007 teams probably would've won the FCS title, which were about half&half of his recruits and the last class of the previous head coach. He hit a recruiting slump, then exploded back to win the 2011, 2012 and 2013 FCS titles using all of his own recruits.

Klieman is a great coach, no doubt, but his 2014 & 2015 titles have mostly been using Bohl recruits. It'll be interesting to see how the team does a full year with Stick at QB, which I believe was the first class with Klieman as HC.

Granted, Klieman was on the staff and helped recruit a lot of those guys. But the HC is the closer.

I think they'll be just fine, but obviously the streak will have to stop some time.


NDSU has the most unique situation in the country with FCS. It's able to recruit FBS level players from the Dakotas, Nebraska, KC, Minn and Wisconsin, that are completely overlooked by the few P5 schools in those areas and there are no G5 schools in those areas, with relatively few FCS schools.

Simply put: NDSU wins because no other FCS schools have that many players on their rosters of that caliber unless they're transfers.

From a long-term marketing and prestige standpoint it would be good for Idaho, the Montanas and the Dakotas to affiliate with each other. A league of like-minded flagships from small western states makes tons of sense and is far better for marketing and rivalry development than trying to make people understand games with Directional State Tech.

And, if they wanted to, those schools could be the backbone of a really nice little FBS league. Similar states, similar budgets, little chance of a destructive intra-conference arms race between the schools. It would be like the MAC, except those schools would actually be the dominant teams in their geographic territories. And they could all say with a straight face that they were on a level playing field with the other state flagships around the country.

The problem is, most of those schools are wrapped around the axle with FCS and have decided what they have is "good enough." I haven't seen anyone at any of those places with the talent, vision and salesmanship to change people's minds and make a conference like that happen.

In summary, none of us are moving out of Mom's basement anytime soon. Even sadder, Idaho is moving back in.

(06-28-2016 04:36 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  From a long-term marketing and prestige standpoint it would be good for Idaho, the Montanas and the Dakotas to affiliate with each other. A league of like-minded flagships from small western states makes tons of sense and is far better for marketing and rivalry development than trying to make people understand games with Directional State Tech.

And, if they wanted to, those schools could be the backbone of a really nice little FBS league. Similar states, similar budgets, little chance of a destructive intra-conference arms race between the schools. It would be like the MAC, except those schools would actually be the dominant teams in their geographic territories. And they could all say with a straight face that they were on a level playing field with the other state flagships around the country.

The problem is, most of those schools are wrapped around the axle with FCS and have decided what they have is "good enough." I haven't seen anyone at any of those places with the talent, vision and salesmanship to change people's minds and make a conference like that happen.

In summary, none of us are moving out of Mom's basement anytime soon. Even sadder, Idaho is moving back in.

Wait til the Big Sky media days in July. Our new President is coming aboard July 1st, so protocol insists that he be involved in major "decisions." He a former Minnesota congressman, represented Michelle Bachmann's district before her, and got back into academics after he lost a Minnesota Senatorial race. He's been at most of the major athletics meetings already, including the Frozen Four and Big Sky President meetings recently.

If an FBS WAC isn't announced by the end of July, I'll concede that Idaho is truly going FCS in two years.

(06-26-2016 04:09 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I bet LSU would put 57 on them, and maybe give up a field goal--late in the 4th quarter. I'd take that result 8 out of 10 times.

That said, they are in a great place for themselves and there is nothing wrong with being the best at the level they are.

You would be wrong and lose that bet, the same way you were wrong about a lot of things with Georgia Southern competing in their first year in FBS.

NDSU has already beaten a Kansas State team that finished 8-5, and they obliterated a MAC champion before their transition from DII to FCS was even complete. They have a better winning percentage against FBS teams than many FBS teams do.

If NDSU was interested in football-only membership with the SBC I'd take them in a second. They would arguably push the Sun Belt over the CUSA at least as far as football prowess.

Latah,

I can understand how it might be easy for the average college football fan to look at a map of the United States and say "well that looks like a nice, contiguous, Western block of states, from Idaho to the Dakotas -- their flagships, which are all playing FCS level football, ought to be in a conference together!"

But I disagree. The problem is that the Western USA is huge, and this results in the Dakota flagships being in a completely different part of the country, geographically and culturally, from the Montana/Idaho flagships.

The Dakota flagships are on the I-29 corridor, which means they're basically in Minnesota/Iowa. That's "the North", if you will, with Minneapolis being the capital. The Montana/Idaho flagships on the other hand are in the northern Rockies. There's not really a principle city in this region, with perhaps Spokane and Boise being the closest.

It's a 16hr drive from Fargo to Cd'A. Another hour+ down to Moscow.


The Dakota flagships need to be together. That much is correct. I'd include UN-O and UM-KC in that group too, along the I-29 corridor. And for good measure, as well as to appease UND and UN-O via hockey conference affiliation, I'd throw Denver U in there as well. In a perfect world, I'd throw in some of the larger Minn D2 universities (Duluth, St Cloud, Mankato) to fill it out, following the same non-football DI path as UN-O, then call it a day. That would be the new Summit League.



NoDak,

Appreciate you giving a deadline. I'll eat my hat if "FBS WAC" is even mentioned in a quote by a prez or AD in a newspaper article.

(06-29-2016 09:51 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Latah,

I can understand how it might be easy for the average college football fan to look at a map of the United States and say "well that looks like a nice, contiguous, Western block of states, from Idaho to the Dakotas -- their flagships, which are all playing FCS level football, ought to be in a conference together!"

But I disagree. The problem is that the Western USA is huge, and this results in the Dakota flagships being in a completely different part of the country, geographically and culturally, from the Montana/Idaho flagships.

The Dakota flagships are on the I-29 corridor, which means they're basically in Minnesota/Iowa. That's "the North", if you will, with Minneapolis being the capital. The Montana/Idaho flagships on the other hand are in the northern Rockies. There's not really a principle city in this region, with perhaps Spokane and Boise being the closest.

It's a 16hr drive from Fargo to Cd'A. Another hour+ down to Moscow.


The Dakota flagships need to be together. That much is correct. I'd include UN-O and UM-KC in that group too, along the I-29 corridor. And for good measure, as well as to appease UND and UN-O via hockey conference affiliation, I'd throw Denver U in there as well. In a perfect world, I'd throw in some of the larger Minn D2 universities (Duluth, St Cloud, Mankato) to fill it out, following the same non-football DI path as UN-O, then call it a day. That would be the new Summit League.

Agreed on the geography. I've lived in the West 90% of my life and I've never set foot in North Dakota, and I bet plenty of Dakotans can say the same about my state. I do still believe a conference of state flagships would be good for marketing, simply because it sounds more impressive to many casual observers than a hodgepodge of directional schools and City U's. School missions also tend to be more similar and the interactions between the schools are likely to be more beneficial on the academic side. But if you guys can replicate that closer to home, then more power to you.

Of course, the other part of this -- the state flagship conference could conceivably become an FBS conference at some point. The new Summit really couldn't. Whether that's at all important is for the schools to judge.

At this point, I'm thoroughly convinced that the NDSU (lack of) leadership is content with the number of dollars they're spending on football, for the "reward" they're getting. Granted, probably no I-AA/FCS school can claim to have realized the level of national attention that NDSU has gotten in the past five years. More than many G5, to be sure.

So they're thinking "why the hell do you increase football budget from $6M to $10M, head coach salary from $300k to $500-750k, etc., for no additional rewards and limited additional income???"

Guaranteed, that's what they're thinking. Fargodome is basically locked in on number of seats, so only way to significantly increase revenue is to significantly increase ticket price. But it's probably already topped out given the local population, wealth, etc. FBS unlocks some additional revenue, but at best it'd be a wash.

Now, of course, that's fine with me. But these are cheap, conservative North Dakotans we're talking about here!

(06-29-2016 03:58 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  At this point, I'm thoroughly convinced that the NDSU (lack of) leadership is content with the number of dollars they're spending on football, for the "reward" they're getting. Granted, probably no I-AA/FCS school can claim to have realized the level of national attention that NDSU has gotten in the past five years. More than many G5, to be sure.

So they're thinking "why the hell do you increase football budget from $6M to $10M, head coach salary from $300k to $500-750k, etc., for no additional rewards and limited additional income???"

Guaranteed, that's what they're thinking. Fargodome is basically locked in on number of seats, so only way to significantly increase revenue is to significantly increase ticket price. But it's probably already topped out given the local population, wealth, etc. FBS unlocks some additional revenue, but at best it'd be a wash.

Now, of course, that's fine with me. But these are cheap, conservative North Dakotans we're talking about here!

The obvious counter-argument would be "we are at the absolute top of the FCS mountain. It looks great now, but there's nowhere for us to go from here but down. This championship run has to stop soon and then we'll go back to getting the same level of attention as other FCS teams. We're not as isolated as the Montana schools and many of the fans we've picked up recently will find a bigger, better option once the championships slow down. Revenue and interest as an FCS team will shrink. We should strike while the iron is hot and move up when we get a chance."

I don't know enough about NDSU to know if that is 100% accurate, but it seems like at least some people over there would be in that camp.

Not enough, I'm afraid.

NDSU is very happy right now spending a good amount of dollars, but not FBS type dollars, and getting pretty much equivalent national coverage as a MAC school. Obviously it won't last ... but then again you never know. Boise had quite a run, getting "pseudo P5" coverage as a G5 school. They've cooled lately though.

(06-30-2016 05:02 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Not enough, I'm afraid.

NDSU is very happy right now spending a good amount of dollars, but not FBS type dollars, and getting pretty much equivalent national coverage as a MAC school. Obviously it won't last ... but then again you never know. Boise had quite a run, getting "pseudo P5" coverage as a G5 school. They've cooled lately though.

I believe that. People living through good times generally believe they'll last forever. It's the same psychology that leads most people in the stock market to buy high and sell low even though they know they should do the opposite.

Or you can do what AState did, be rather successful in FCS make the decision to move just as your FCS program starts crumbling and get even more battered as a new FBS.

(07-01-2016 11:51 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Or you can do what AState did, be rather successful in FCS make the decision to move just as your FCS program starts crumbling and get even more battered as a new FBS.

Hey, we did that. Must of taking right out of the AState play book.