(06-25-2016 01:42 AM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 11:18 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 05:34 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Liberals, I mean Progressives (even they know liberal is a dirty word) preach tolerance and are usually the most intolerant.

"Liberal" is not a dirty word. I quote the great Milton Friedman from his book Capitalism and Freedom:

"It is extremely convenient to have a label for the political and economic viewpoint elaborated in this book. The rightful and proper label is liberalism. Unfortunately, the enemies of the system of private enterprise have thought it wise to appropriate its label, so that liberal has, in the United States, come to have a very different meaning that it did in the 19th century or does today over much of the continent of Europe.... Because of the corruption of the term liberalism, the views that formerly went under that name are now often labeled conservatism. But this is not a satisfactory alternative. The 19th century liberal was a radical... so too must be his modern heir."

True. The terms liberal and conservative have ceased to retain their actual meanings and have become pejorative expressions of the left and right. Many who consider themselves conservatives have latched onto a term that they identify with, yet have little resemblance to the conservatism of Russell Kirk, the father of modern conservatism. The evolution has occurred due to a number of influences, including neo-conservatism, which may have been well-meaning, but carried out policies of intervention that were anything but conservative and the radicalization of the Tea Party, transforming it from a grassroots group focused on fiscal responsibility into a catchall for the social agenda of the right. Ultimately, all of these labels mean nothing.

JR said it so well, but I agree wholeheartedly that people have stopped thinking, stopped listening and stopped considering alternatives to what they have been comfortable believing. People have stopped challenging their own beliefs and have rather only sought to reinforce the positions they want to have. Those bringing up the proponents of Eugenics in the 20's and 30's seem to be seeking to link those who identify as conservatives with Nazis and xenophobes; indeed one brought up pro-lifers hoping to support their position. I would guarantee you that these same people love Planned Parenthood, an organization founded by a proponent of Eugenics. One of the primary purposes of Planned Parenthood was to reduce the number of non-white babies carried to term.

I could rattle on about these topics for pages, but it probably wouldn't be worthwhile. Let me just sum up with this -- think for yourselves, don't accept the party line without doing your own research, think for yourselves, vote for candidates you like instead of against candidates you don't like, think for yourselves, stop marginalizing people with whom you disagree, and above all.......wait for it.......think for yourselves.

Oh yeah, realignment. I believe that there will be an economic tightening by the networks in the coming contract negotiations. However, the plums that produce the content that most of the country wants to watch will still get paid IMO. The SEC and Big 10 will get the best deals with the PAC, Big 12 and ACC getting a bit less. Unfortunately, I think the G5 will get scraps by comparison and that separation will create a de facto Division I-AA. While a proactive school or two may be able to improve their conference situation, I believe it's unlikely to occur due to the hesitant nature of college presidents. They will simply move too slowly to create the momentum necessary to make a conference move or initiate a conference expansion. Their default mode is inaction -- just wait and see what happens. I think what will happen is nothing.

I consider myself a strong Christian conservative. I trace my conservative beliefs to whom I believe founded the modern conservative movement in Barry Goldwater. Russell Kirk was one of Goldwater's closest friends during the late 50's and early 60's.

While our Liberal counterparts have moved farther to the left, to push their "One World" global agenda, they have become almost "Neo-Marxist" in their views. I believe our conservative movement has strayed to too far to center.

Today's "popular" conservative holds views are closer to a Democrat than Goldwater Republican. This I find this extremely troubling.

I am tired of seeing Republicans play the good guy, quietly stand by and be called a racist, a bigot, a homophobe or a dozen other derogatory names that spill out of the mouth of our President when he doesn't get his way. It was embarrassing yesterday to see our President scolding the Brits for their vote.

I am tired of Republicans not being Republicans.

(06-25-2016 06:06 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(06-25-2016 01:42 AM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 11:18 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 05:34 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Liberals, I mean Progressives (even they know liberal is a dirty word) preach tolerance and are usually the most intolerant.

"Liberal" is not a dirty word. I quote the great Milton Friedman from his book Capitalism and Freedom:

"It is extremely convenient to have a label for the political and economic viewpoint elaborated in this book. The rightful and proper label is liberalism. Unfortunately, the enemies of the system of private enterprise have thought it wise to appropriate its label, so that liberal has, in the United States, come to have a very different meaning that it did in the 19th century or does today over much of the continent of Europe.... Because of the corruption of the term liberalism, the views that formerly went under that name are now often labeled conservatism. But this is not a satisfactory alternative. The 19th century liberal was a radical... so too must be his modern heir."

True. The terms liberal and conservative have ceased to retain their actual meanings and have become pejorative expressions of the left and right. Many who consider themselves conservatives have latched onto a term that they identify with, yet have little resemblance to the conservatism of Russell Kirk, the father of modern conservatism. The evolution has occurred due to a number of influences, including neo-conservatism, which may have been well-meaning, but carried out policies of intervention that were anything but conservative and the radicalization of the Tea Party, transforming it from a grassroots group focused on fiscal responsibility into a catchall for the social agenda of the right. Ultimately, all of these labels mean nothing.

JR said it so well, but I agree wholeheartedly that people have stopped thinking, stopped listening and stopped considering alternatives to what they have been comfortable believing. People have stopped challenging their own beliefs and have rather only sought to reinforce the positions they want to have. Those bringing up the proponents of Eugenics in the 20's and 30's seem to be seeking to link those who identify as conservatives with Nazis and xenophobes; indeed one brought up pro-lifers hoping to support their position. I would guarantee you that these same people love Planned Parenthood, an organization founded by a proponent of Eugenics. One of the primary purposes of Planned Parenthood was to reduce the number of non-white babies carried to term.

I could rattle on about these topics for pages, but it probably wouldn't be worthwhile. Let me just sum up with this -- think for yourselves, don't accept the party line without doing your own research, think for yourselves, vote for candidates you like instead of against candidates you don't like, think for yourselves, stop marginalizing people with whom you disagree, and above all.......wait for it.......think for yourselves.

Oh yeah, realignment. I believe that there will be an economic tightening by the networks in the coming contract negotiations. However, the plums that produce the content that most of the country wants to watch will still get paid IMO. The SEC and Big 10 will get the best deals with the PAC, Big 12 and ACC getting a bit less. Unfortunately, I think the G5 will get scraps by comparison and that separation will create a de facto Division I-AA. While a proactive school or two may be able to improve their conference situation, I believe it's unlikely to occur due to the hesitant nature of college presidents. They will simply move too slowly to create the momentum necessary to make a conference move or initiate a conference expansion. Their default mode is inaction -- just wait and see what happens. I think what will happen is nothing.

I consider myself a strong Christian conservative. I trace my conservative beliefs to whom I believe founded the modern conservative movement in Barry Goldwater. Russell Kirk was one of Goldwater's closest friends during the late 50's and early 60's.

While our Liberal counterparts have moved farther to the left, to push their "One World" global agenda, they have become almost "Neo-Marxist" in their views. I believe our conservative movement has strayed to too far to center.

Today's "popular" conservative holds views are closer to a Democrat than Goldwater Republican. This I find this extremely troubling.

I am tired of seeing Republicans play the good guy, quietly stand by and be called a racist, a bigot, a homophobe or a dozen other derogatory names that spill out of the mouth of our President when he doesn't get his way. It was embarrassing yesterday to see our President scolding the Brits for their vote.

I am tired of Republicans not being Republicans.

While Goldwater certainly influenced the direction of the Republican Party, it did not stop being Republican until Reagan was elected. It was his willingness to embrace the former segregationist southern Democrats that fixed the future direction of the party, and led us to where we are today.

I believe that he, like many Republicans of his time, felt that the GOP could contain and control that element of his party, along with its religious wing, and that with their votes could ensure a Republican majority for decades.

Turns out he was wrong.

(06-24-2016 08:26 AM)EmeryZach Wrote:  Far right nationalism and xenophobia is out in full force.

It is about borders, national identity and culture.

(06-25-2016 07:13 AM)ken d Wrote:  While Goldwater certainly influenced the direction of the Republican Party, it did not stop being Republican until Reagan was elected. It was his willingness to embrace the former segregationist southern Democrats that fixed the future direction of the party, and led us to where we are today.

I believe that he, like many Republicans of his time, felt that the GOP could contain and control that element of his party, along with its religious wing, and that with their votes could ensure a Republican majority for decades.

Turns out he was wrong.

That is an interesting point that I had never considered. It doesn't help that many of the good southern Democrats are gone now. Many replaced by more moderate Republicans. Perhaps I should consider myself a member of the Tea Party instead of the Republican Party.
CJ

(06-24-2016 01:18 PM)goofus Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 12:28 PM)rjglassett Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 11:57 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 11:51 AM)goofus Wrote:  It's not exactly clear yet what all the motives were, but the message is clear that England wants to close its borders.

Hopefully the US will do the same. Instead of spending our money to protect Europe we need to protect ourselves. I have no problem with isolationism...

We could change our immigration policy at any time (and have). We don't have a supergovernment over us like the UK had over itself. And the executive action route to chagne immigration law was shot down, so contact your congressman if you want it changed.

Yes, but if you wanted to close the borders of New Jersey, the big super government of the USA might have something to say about that.

Yes. We have a federal system, there are certain powers delegated to the federal government (immigration being one of them) and theoretically anything else belongs to the states. The states weren't sovereign entities from 1787 or so, and the Civil War affirmed this.

Europe is a different beast. The only country that really had a federal system of any kind was Germany. They have the supergovernment of the EU over sovereign nations, and it's a government not really accountable (or only indirectly accountable) to the various member countries.

Again, theoretically, your congressman answers directly to the voters in his district and is up for election every 2 years. It's a different system than what exists in Europe with the EU.

(06-24-2016 11:35 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 11:24 PM)58-56 Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 10:43 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The problem we have as a nation is that our politics intentionally polarize the bases so that they portray everything as being in opposition. This allows them to utilize compromise to accomplish purposes alien to the left, the middle, and the right and excuse it as compromise to cover their selling out to the those who compensate them on the sly. The hypocrisy of the left is no different in its effect than that of the right. It is truly right out of Dante. Two groups chasing political banners hurling insults at one another and accomplishing nothing good in the process.

And fear. Don't forget the fear. Anxiety is the only thing we have left in common.

So very true, but that goes hand in hand with never talking to or getting to know your neighbors, coworkers, or even folks you meet as you go about your day. The more isolated people are the more fearful they become. Fear is quite possibly the easiest of human emotions to manipulate because it is part of our primal survival instincts. People who are part of a larger group are less fearful and more likely to defend another. The minority can't control and dominate us without fear.

That's the beauty of being older. At some point you just don't let folks scare you anymore. Of course that is one reason the old are being blamed for all of the social inconveniences that the young suffer. Alienate the young from the only remaining source of life experiences that can be taught, the old, and the indoctrination is easy. The Hitler Youth and the Young Pioneers and Mao's Red Guard learned that lesson very well.

These kids literally don't remember, or care to know about, anything that was pre Clinton or therefore pre NAFTA. Let that sink in.

Thanks for pointing that out!

Guns or safe spaces, they fill the same need. Good luck finding someone who clings to either to admit that.

But it's not just politics. Anxiety marketing has been in heavy use for a little over 50 years selling all manner of products (usually based on FOMO, but sometimes with a more deadly threat implied or even stated outright). It's a more subtle effect, but it's there just the same, ratcheting up the background anxiety level like some kind of deadly but unseen radiation, so that when ISIS chops the head off some poor volunteer medic in Fallujah they start panic-buying guns and ammo in Thorby, Alabama.

(06-25-2016 11:33 AM)58-56 Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 11:35 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 11:24 PM)58-56 Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 10:43 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The problem we have as a nation is that our politics intentionally polarize the bases so that they portray everything as being in opposition. This allows them to utilize compromise to accomplish purposes alien to the left, the middle, and the right and excuse it as compromise to cover their selling out to the those who compensate them on the sly. The hypocrisy of the left is no different in its effect than that of the right. It is truly right out of Dante. Two groups chasing political banners hurling insults at one another and accomplishing nothing good in the process.

And fear. Don't forget the fear. Anxiety is the only thing we have left in common.

So very true, but that goes hand in hand with never talking to or getting to know your neighbors, coworkers, or even folks you meet as you go about your day. The more isolated people are the more fearful they become. Fear is quite possibly the easiest of human emotions to manipulate because it is part of our primal survival instincts. People who are part of a larger group are less fearful and more likely to defend another. The minority can't control and dominate us without fear.

That's the beauty of being older. At some point you just don't let folks scare you anymore. Of course that is one reason the old are being blamed for all of the social inconveniences that the young suffer. Alienate the young from the only remaining source of life experiences that can be taught, the old, and the indoctrination is easy. The Hitler Youth and the Young Pioneers and Mao's Red Guard learned that lesson very well.

These kids literally don't remember, or care to know about, anything that was pre Clinton or therefore pre NAFTA. Let that sink in.

Thanks for pointing that out!

Guns or safe spaces, they fill the same need. Good luck finding someone who clings to either to admit that.

But it's not just politics. Anxiety marketing has been in heavy use for a little over 50 years selling all manner of products (usually based on FOMO, but sometimes with a more deadly threat implied or even stated outright). It's a more subtle effect, but it's there just the same, ratcheting up the background anxiety level like some kind of deadly but unseen radiation, so that when ISIS chops the head off some poor volunteer medic in Fallujah they start panic-buying guns and ammo in Thorby, Alabama.

Safe places are a bit absurd. I can buy a tornado shelter, or even a fallout shelter, but the latter for reasons unrelated to nuclear warfare. There are something like 22 nuclear power plants, or thereabout built on or near the New Madrid fault line or along the Mississippi and some bullseyed by the Pre-Cambrian fault line as it intersects the New Madrid Zone and I doubt many of them are as secure against earthquakes as the Fukushima plant was. But suffice it to say I have neither. I do have an inner closet and when a F2 hit across the street it was the only time in my life that I took shelter from a storm and it was in that closet.

I'm more afraid of a soccer mom in an SUV using her cell phone to twitter or text than I am of about anything else. There are legions of those nut jobs on the roads! The odds of getting killed on the highway are higher than an air flight disaster, a home invasion, or any other random act of violence. Not to mention that if it is within 15 minutes of the start of elementary school or 15 minutes within time for the same to let out your odds of being hit by one of the aforementioned goes way up as they drive like a bat out of Hell to get the kiddies, but while they are still glued to their cell phones.

If they truly wanted to stop illegal immigration they would build all of the elementary schools for Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and Southern California along the border and stagger the class times by 10 minute intervals so that illegals had to dodge a whole hoard of those lethal bimbos all rushing mindlessly to pick up the kiddies.

IMO the only thing deadlier than soccer moms on cell phones is an elderly Yankee in a Winnebago traveling 40 mph on any interstate highway headed South. I've personally witnessed 3 separate accidents with fatalities along I95 South that were caused by, or involved, elderly Northerners driving a Winnebago. The closest I've come to getting killed on the road was due to a heavy downpour coming out of Savannah headed South to Jacksonville and suddenly through my wiper motion I saw a Winnebago stopped directly in front of me in the left lane with all of its lights out. I was doing about 40 because of the weather conditions and I took to the median. The log truck behind me jackknifed and rolled as soon as he saw the same and he missed rolling over me by a few yards. The elderly Pennsylvania couple had panicked in the downpour and just stopped in the left lane and switched off the ignition with no lights left on.

So you see, I don't fear guns, I don't fear a foreign entity, and I generally don't fear storms until I see or hear one (I did go through Camille), but I do fear stupid people. Stupid people in close proximity to you is the surest way to be innocently trapped into an accidental death. Stay the hell away from stupid people. Stupid people get you killed! If you want a long and prosperous life stay away from stupid people. Don't hire them. Don't enter into contracts with them. And if they move in next door sell all you have and start over somewhere else. So what I fear the most is that we will keep electing stupid people and those fools will get us killed.

Solve that issue and I will nominate you!

We have become, just like the 24/7 "news" programs we watch, in a very big hurry to pronounce what the effects of any action will be. People who, a week ago, had never heard the term "Brexit" today pontificate on how it will play out. This is a hugely complex issue. There will no doubt be unintended consequences nobody will see coming for several years.

I assume that Russia is over the moon ecstatic over this development today. Just the possibility that this could signal the fracturing of any European unity has to have Putin salivating over what opportunities this may present.

But before he gets too carried away, he might want to think about the possibility that this could lead to the kind of political dominance of continental Europe that Hitler envisioned for the Third Reich, but without the handicap of of the leadership of a bat-shyte crazy dictator. With England choosing to isolate itself from the continent, with its unifying currency, could Germany replace London as the financial center of Europe?

Could this decision ultimately lead to another major war on the European continent in our lifetime? If so, what are the implications for the Middle East and its oil fields? What impact will England's self-imposed diminishing influence with its EU partners have on international support for the State of Israel?

There are a lot more questions than answers, and probably will be for years. What is a certainty, however, is that everybody with a political axe to grind will "prove" why they are right and their enemies are wrong. That has already started.

(06-25-2016 03:51 PM)ken d Wrote:  We have become, just like the 24/7 "news" programs we watch, in a very big hurry to pronounce what the effects of any action will be. People who, a week ago, had never heard the term "Brexit" today pontificate on how it will play out. This is a hugely complex issue. There will no doubt be unintended consequences nobody will see coming for several years.

I assume that Russia is over the moon ecstatic over this development today. Just the possibility that this could signal the fracturing of any European unity has to have Putin salivating over what opportunities this may present.

But before he gets too carried away, he might want to think about the possibility that this could lead to the kind of political dominance of continental Europe that Hitler envisioned for the Third Reich, but without the handicap of of the leadership of a bat-shyte crazy dictator. With England choosing to isolate itself from the continent, with its unifying currency, could Germany replace London as the financial center of Europe?

Could this decision ultimately lead to another major war on the European continent in our lifetime? If so, what are the implications for the Middle East and its oil fields? What impact will England's self-imposed diminishing influence with its EU partners have on international support for the State of Israel?

There are a lot more questions than answers, and probably will be for years. What is a certainty, however, is that everybody with a political axe to grind will "prove" why they are right and their enemies are wrong. That has already started.

From a currency standpoint it is exactly the kind of opening that the Chinese had hoped for with regards to the renminbi. How that plays out will be interesting as well.

(06-25-2016 08:47 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 08:26 AM)EmeryZach Wrote:  Far right nationalism and xenophobia is out in full force.

It is about borders, national identity and culture.

It's about people being afraid of people that aren't like them. You can't live like that.

It sounds as if there is a reaction to the vote for the exit. I do not profess to know the UK political system, but a call for another referendum seems to be gaining momentum. Seeing what has happened since the vote, and the fact that a breakup of the UK is possible, I can see why. People do not seem to be as patient to see if change will work out.

(06-25-2016 05:54 PM)EmeryZach Wrote:  

(06-25-2016 08:47 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 08:26 AM)EmeryZach Wrote:  Far right nationalism and xenophobia is out in full force.

It is about borders, national identity and culture.

It's about people being afraid of people that aren't like them. You can't live like that.

Cool story but that is liberal babbles

Where are the OPEC countries to take them? Mexico? China? Yeah that's right they are racists too.

(06-25-2016 07:45 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-25-2016 05:54 PM)EmeryZach Wrote:  

(06-25-2016 08:47 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 08:26 AM)EmeryZach Wrote:  Far right nationalism and xenophobia is out in full force.

It is about borders, national identity and culture.

It's about people being afraid of people that aren't like them. You can't live like that.

Cool story but that is liberal babbles

Where are the OPEC countries to take them? Mexico? China? Yeah that's right they are racists too.

You honestly don't think there is a very real resurgence in xenophobia going on around the globe?

Fear is taking over. I personally refuse to live like that.

People can disagree and live in fear, that's fine, but I won't do that.

I'm more concerned with the deteriorating infrastructure on our highways, bridges, and mass transit systems.

This thread has run its course... Check out the Spin Room.