(06-21-2016 04:10 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(06-21-2016 04:02 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  Without a doubt. ULL and Texas State draw well within the region at least.

Ah the sound of settling for mediocrity.

We are already in mediocrity. At least this version of mediocrity would have some sanity attached to it, instead of trying to find reasons to care about games against FAU, FIU, ODU, Charlotte, and Marshall (and them trying to make their fans care about playing Rice)!

(06-21-2016 04:14 PM)Antarius Wrote:  None of there ideas take us anywhere near relevant. There unfortunately aren't varying levels of irrelevance- just one sad lonely irrelevant place where no one cares

I agree that it is just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. But at least the music will sound better before the ship goes down. Plus, if it slightly reduces travel costs and slightly increases attendance, not like it hurts anything.

(06-21-2016 04:25 PM)mrbig Wrote:  

(06-21-2016 04:10 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(06-21-2016 04:02 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  Without a doubt. ULL and Texas State draw well within the region at least.

Ah the sound of settling for mediocrity.

We are already in mediocrity. At least this version of mediocrity would have some sanity attached to it, instead of trying to find reasons to care about games against FAU, FIU, ODU, Charlotte, and Marshall (and them trying to make their fans care about playing Rice)!

(06-21-2016 04:14 PM)Antarius Wrote:  None of there ideas take us anywhere near relevant. There unfortunately aren't varying levels of irrelevance- just one sad lonely irrelevant place where no one cares

I agree that it is just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. But at least the music will sound better before the ship goes down. Plus, if it slightly reduces travel costs and slightly increases attendance, not like it hurts anything.

Change takes effort. And IMO, that effort is better spent either pumping water out and sealing the hole or lowering the lifeboats and calling it done.

Rearranging the deck chairs is effort with zero reward.

Why would we seek to make such a pointless conference larger?

My suggestion was and remains that if we can't go totally independent, that we limit our exposure to teams low on the food chain. That we keep CUSA west and dump the east. I don't care what you call it... how about the South West Conference? nor do I care what the Sun Belt or CUSA East does in response... unless we can get paid to play a playoff.

We can still play ULL or Tx State if we want to, but we don't have to do home/homes with them. I'd rather save that 'away' game at San Marcos or Lafayette for an 'away' game at UH or Air Force as part of a home/home... or an 'away' game that pays.

(06-21-2016 04:10 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(06-21-2016 04:02 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  Without a doubt. ULL and Texas State draw well within the region at least.

Ah the sound of settling for mediocrity.

What you're failing to acknowledge in all this is that no one else wants Rice right now. Unless UH goes to the Big12 and the AAC wants another private school, or we build ourselves up enough to get into the MWC, there's nowhere else to go. We're stuck. Rice isn't a candidate for expansion anywhere. We don't deserve better right now. What athletic accomplishments dictate otherwise? What attendance figures can we show off? None. With a merger, at least we're in a conference with some regional appeal. I'd love to drive to football games in Lafayette and San Marcos. Who wouldn't?

(06-21-2016 04:53 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  I'd love to drive to football games in Lafayette and San Marcos. Who wouldn't?

UH will be there 9/24. Enjoy the trip


BTW, Tx State is 4-2 against UH after last years big win


This isn't about those schools. This is about what is best for US. If scheduling a home and home with ULL is what is best for us, then we should do that. I don't think anyone in their right mind thinks that it is. Our problem is that we already have 7+ such games on our schedule.

Hint... you don't move up the food chain by playing teams that are low on the food chain, whether or not you beat them.

It doesn't matter how exactly it happens, but there needs to at least be a breakaway of CUSA West members from the conference. I don't see how we find 6 more games to fill out the schedule, but who knows? There may be more security in having 8 or 9 members. It just makes sense to play people from around here as much as possible, under any scenario we're in. Competitively, I think the sad truth is that there's not much separating us (CUSA West) from the Sun Belt's best programs.

(06-21-2016 04:56 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(06-21-2016 04:53 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  I'd love to drive to football games in Lafayette and San Marcos. Who wouldn't?

UH will be there 9/24. Enjoy the trip


BTW, Tx State is 4-2 against UH after last years big win


This isn't about those schools. This is about what is best for US. If scheduling a home and home with ULL is what is best for us, then we should do that. I don't think anyone in their right mind thinks that it is. Our problem is that we already have 7+ such games on our schedule.

Hint... you don't move up the food chain by playing teams that are low on the food chain, whether or not you beat them.

I would be interested in knowing how ULL has traveled to sites like U of H, Tulane, or even Rice (we played them in the 80's or early 90's I believe). They are one school that might help attendance in football, as well as RPI in baseball. I think their fans travel, and they undoubtedly have alumni in Houston.

I remember those games in the 80's. ULL was horrible. Thinking back, I'm surprised that so many of their fans came out to support them. They had a respectable contingent, more than Tulane, North Texas, or Tulsa ever brought. I can remember that much.

I'm fine with inviting ULL to come here and bring their fans... I just don't see much of a benefit in going there.

No knock on Lafayette or their fans... just why bother if you don't have to?

If you're in conference (which was the original proposition) then you are tied to a trip there every other year. Can we get a 1 and done? how about a 2:1? They may like an annual trip to Houston's fertile recruiting ground.

and we already have 4 non-conference games to fill... 2 more isn't that big a deal... especially when everyone else in our 'old' conference will have the same problems. Worst case, you schedule them as a non-conference game.

The point of having a conference in the first place (these days) is the shared revenue from the collective contract.... which we don't have.... and rivalries that can develop from frequent encounters... which we also don't have.

Personally, I think our realignment goals should be driven by the following:

1) Move to a conference to increase notoriety and ensure our top sports are in a position to play against stronger competition (this is why I am somewhat reluctant to move to the MWC, as it would be devastating for our best sport, baseball. However, the MWC would represent an upgrade in other sports.). C-USA is a joke as it stands today, an amalgamation of a few old C-USA teams, former Sun Belt teams, FBS call-ups, with a few schools that did note even play football in the 20th century.

2) Move to a conference that has more academic peers. Literally any other conference other than the Sun Belt and the MAC would provide this.

3) Move to a conference with more regional rivalries, which is where I think Afflicted's argument/idea comes in. If only given the option between the current C-USA and a conference with more regional teams (C-USA West plus a few western Sun Belt teams), I'd take the latter every time. The only eastern team with any long-lasting athletic cachet in FBS is Marshall. Every other team is former Sun Belt or former FCS. I like playing Marshall, given their strong history in football, but every other eastern team literally holds no appeal to me given their distance from us.

(06-22-2016 10:08 AM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  Personally, I think our realignment goals should be driven by the following:

1) Move to a conference to increase notoriety and ensure our top sports are in a position to play against stronger competition (this is why I am somewhat reluctant to move to the MWC, as it would be devastating for our best sport, baseball. However, the MWC would represent an upgrade in other sports.). C-USA is a joke as it stands today, an amalgamation of a few old C-USA teams, former Sun Belt teams, FBS call-ups, with a few schools that did note even play football in the 20th century.

2) Move to a conference that has more academic peers. Literally any other conference other than the Sun Belt and the MAC would provide this.

3) Move to a conference with more regional rivalries, which is where I think Afflicted's argument/idea comes in. If only given the option between the current C-USA and a conference with more regional teams (C-USA West plus a few western Sun Belt teams), I'd take the latter every time. The only eastern team with any long-lasting athletic cachet in FBS is Marshall. Every other team is former Sun Belt or former FCS. I like playing Marshall, given their strong history in football, but every other eastern team literally holds no appeal to me given their distance from us.

Yeah, I agree with this. Although it doesn't matter to me at all if we play academic peers, I guess I can see why it would matter to Rice folks. And Marshall is the only team in East that I care about. The others are so unfamiliar that I have no interest whatsoever, and I'd expect any random Houston sports fan to feel the same. As for the MWC, that would be a good step up in competition, but do we really want to fly athletes all over the country like we do right now? Pick your poison. No situation will be perfect. My guess is that Karlgaard has determined that the MWC is the place for Rice to be. It must be feasible, and I trust his judgement. If it doesn't happen, a small regional conference would help Rice, and everyone else in CUSA West for that matter.

I'm surprised to read the Marshall love, I'd be fine if Rice never played Marshall again in any sport. Not that I hate Marshall, but isn't Huntington just about the most annoying place for the Rice student athletes to get (in terms of current CUSA foes)? And while Marshall has more historical and recent football success than most CUSA East programs, I just don't sense that they have any more attraction than Charlotte or FIU for the kinds of fans Rice would target for home game attendance.

keep the championship game... IF we and they make it, we play at one or the other place. A home/home with them is stupid. We don't travel well there and they don't travel well here. Unaware of substantial number of Marshall grads in the area that would come even if they were 'top 20'.

(06-22-2016 11:59 AM)mrbig Wrote:  I'm surprised to read the Marshall love, I'd be fine if Rice never played Marshall again in any sport. Not that I hate Marshall, but isn't Huntington just about the most annoying place for the Rice student athletes to get (in terms of current CUSA foes)? And while Marshall has more historical and recent football success than most CUSA East programs, I just don't sense that they have any more attraction than Charlotte or FIU for the kinds of fans Rice would target for home game attendance.

Probably also the worst academic school in the conference and that's saying something.

(06-22-2016 11:59 AM)mrbig Wrote:  I'm surprised to read the Marshall love, I'd be fine if Rice never played Marshall again in any sport. Not that I hate Marshall, but isn't Huntington just about the most annoying place for the Rice student athletes to get (in terms of current CUSA foes)? And while Marshall has more historical and recent football success than most CUSA East programs, I just don't sense that they have any more attraction than Charlotte or FIU for the kinds of fans Rice would target for home game attendance.

Agree with you on the location part - major detractor from playing them versus a school in Miami or Charlotte. I guess I'm trying to read the mind of a potential casual Rice fan, who may have heard of Marshall more than Charlotte/FIU/FAU/ODU/WKU, given the release of the "We Are Marshall" movie, the Chad Pennington / Randy Moss / Byron Leftwich days, as well as the fact that they have recent successes (C-USA runner up in 2013, C-USA champion and a one loss season in 2014 (versus the other schools, which have little to no FBS success to speak of). Although I readily admit that I may be giving the casual fan too much credit in remembering all of that info and using it to justify attending a Rice/Marshall game vs a Rice/FAU game.

(06-22-2016 11:59 AM)mrbig Wrote:  I'm surprised to read the Marshall love, I'd be fine if Rice never played Marshall again in any sport. Not that I hate Marshall, but isn't Huntington just about the most annoying place for the Rice student athletes to get (in terms of current CUSA foes)? And while Marshall has more historical and recent football success than most CUSA East programs, I just don't sense that they have any more attraction than Charlotte or FIU for the kinds of fans Rice would target for home game attendance.

They're tolerable, but nothing to get overly excited about. They're the only East team with name recognition

Even Marshall has been FBS/1-A for only 20 seasons (this year).

BTW, for C-USA history, this image from Wikipedia tells a pretty interesting story of membership.


source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conference...p_timeline