As far as insider/outsider status. From Pitt's perspective, I don't think much has changed from the Big East to the ACC. In that way, we are very different than Boston College and especially Syracuse.

Just watch the Requiem for the Big East 30/30 and Pitt is hardly even mentioned in it. Also, listen to any historical retrospective of the conference and we hardly rate a mention in those as well. Some of that is our own doing but we had a pretty good men's basketball program for a long time and that probably warrants a little more respect than it was given.

For example, Jamie Dixon coached in the Big East for more than a decade and has the best winning percentage of any coach in that league's history. That's a pretty good sample size and that's a lot of winning over the "core" programs. That's probably worth mentioning when doing a retrospective on the conference.

I think the real problem in the Big East is that we were not ever seen as being truly "Northeastern" in the strictest sense. We were always somewhat of an outlier. That's Pittsburgh in general. People were never really sure what we are? Are we Midwestern? Nope, I've lived in Ohio and it's very different culturally. Are we Northeastern? Nope, I've also lived in Boston and we're very different than that place too. The truth is Pittsburgh, probably like Buffalo, is kind of it's own place and that's a major part of the charm. However, it also leads to being excluded in certain situations.

Also, we were always seen it as "an expansion team," even though we joined the conference just three years after its inception and before it really rose to national prominence.

It is the same in the ACC. We will always be one of the northern interlopers to a large section of the league's fans. You see it in a lot of these realignment discussions. It's like, "Okay, now where the hell do we put these three useless northern teams?"

We usually end up in some sort of junk drawer with the league's Southern teams that they don't respect. LOL!

It's all good, Pitt and Penn State had a chance to form their own conference around teams from their region and they each blew it. This is what we both deserve.

Still, it is more than a little amusing to be dismissed as useless by a fan of the team who's been good for about 10 minutes. I've said this before and I will say it again – because it is absolutely true. Consult the Internet or read a book and you will learn that the history of Syracuse and Pitt football blows away that of every ACC school except Florida State and Miami.

In other words, we weren't thrown a lifeline and we don't owe anyone anything. Rather, we were brought in to enhance a product in need of enhancement.

Now, when you talk about your history and tradition, you don't have to show videos of guys Shawn Moore, Will Fuller, Kelvin Bryant and a bunch of other guys no one has ever heard of. Now, you can show videos of Dan Marino, Tony Dorsett, Hugh Green, Mike Ditka, Darrelle Revis, Jim Brown, Floyd Little, Donovan McNabb, Marvin Harrison, etc., and claim them as your own.

It was a fair trade and good business for all sides. However, I don't look at this as anything but a business partnership. I root for other ACC schools only because it benefits Pitt. If it doesn't help my school, I don't really care what happens to the ACC school in question. I rooted for Clemson against Alabama but I rooted against ACC schools in the NCAA tournament. That's because we need to enhance our football credibility but our basketball reputation has long been firmly cemented.

Do you consider Cuse, Pitt and Ville as ACC teams?
Formally? Yes. Culturally? Not so much.

Do you root for them nonconference?
Absolutely.

Do you accept the variety they bring in traditions and attitudes?
I have a soft spot for Pitt. Cuse is kinda meh. I'm more or less hostile to Louisville, due primarily to geography, academics, Petrino, and a surprising number of U(sic)GA connections.

Or do you wish they went away?
Pitt can stay. Louisville can stay if Kentucky comes in. I don't have much interest in Cuse, but in their defense that goes for pretty much everybody North of the Potomac and Ohio Rivers.

I consider Cuse, Pitt and 'Ville all part of the ACC, root for them OOC and accept them wholeheartedly.

I was very impressed with the Yinzer contingent that traveled to Wallace-Wade last season. Then again, I see plenty of PITT shirts/sweaters/jerseys all around the Triangle. They're family.

Keep all of them. I do agree with "Boss" on luring Kentucky in -- that would be all sorts of epic, especially in football if you put UK in the Atlantic Division. On second thought, you'd have to put them in the Coastal, pair them with UL and watch a beautiful thing unfold between UK and UVA.

(06-19-2016 03:20 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  So do you newbie ACC fans (Cuse, Pitt, and Ville) feel you are part of the ACC now? In FB and BB? Do you still wish you were in the Big East? Do you root for the other ACC teams in non conference contests?

Old Head fans: Do you consider Cuse, Pitt and Ville as ACC teams? Do you root for them nonconference? Do you accept the variety they bring in traditions and attitudes? Or do you wish they went away?

I left Notre Dame out on purpose.

From my perspective, I am happy to have SU, Pitt, and UL in the ACC. I have not made it to a FB game at either Pitt or SU yet but hope to do so next year. UL has turned out to be a really nice addition in football and of course BB as well. SU and Pitt have been good additions in BB and time will tell for football. I have been to UL for a football game and it was a great experience.

My only gripe is having both BC and SU in the Atlantic division. I understand the need and desire to "integrate" the newbies and semi newbies into the conference and from a logical standpoint am OK with this. From a "fan" standpoint, the attempt to "generate" a rivalry just makes no sense. BC and Cuse are located so far away and in many respects are perceived to be very different culturally by the average Clemson fan. Do not get me wrong - we have had some good FB games with BC since they joined the conference but in the eyes of many (or most) Clemson fans, they will never be a rival. As much as it "pains" me to say this, we would much rather play UNC on an annual basis and would definitely prefer to play VT on an annual basis. Having said all this though - I am happy to have BC and SU in the ACC and think they (along with UL, Pitt, SU, and VT) were good additions.

Regardless of the team, I always have and always will pull for ACC teams against any team from another conference.

(06-19-2016 03:20 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Do you consider Cuse, Pitt and Ville as ACC teams?

Sure. Not sure what the alternative would be. They're in the conference. We have to play them.

Quote:Do you root for them nonconference?

Most definitely.

Quote:Do you accept the variety they bring in traditions and attitudes?

Umm...like what? I'm a football guy, and I'm just not really seeing a lot brought to the table from SU and Pitt from a football perspective.

I grew up near SU, and have huge respect for the program's history. I like Syracuse, and I followed them, and was dismayed when they fell off the face of the earth. But it's really hard for me to make a case that they enhance the ACC's football experience. They are in a horrible recruiting area, they are a very long trip, and they have not been competitive in football in a long time.

Now, in full disclosure, my opinion is colored strongly by the fact that I don't believe that Syracuse will ever be "back" as a nationally relevant program. I hope I'm wrong, I like the Syracuse posters on here, and I want to see Syracuse do well. But I do think they are destined to be forever between 2-8 and 8-4. I don't think they'll ever be good enough to be a "big game", or will ever have enough national respect to not be a lose-lose scenario.

If I'm wrong, my opinion on Syracuse's value would change dramatically and quickly, because Syracuse is kind of a neat program, in a unique environment, with a cool history. If they every got to the point of being good enough to matter, I think having Syracuse becomes fun. If you had a choice between a Syracuse or say an NC State becoming a top 15 team, then I think Syracuse would be the choice because of it's uniqueness.

But I just don't see a lot of value add to ACC football if they don't get good.

Pitt is quite similar, but just not as much so. I'm a little more intrigued by Pitt's upside than I am Syracuse's. I can picture Pitt being a meaningful player a little more easily. There may be zero to back it up, but I'm a little more hopeful.

Louisville, I'm all in with. Great fit, great replacement for Maryland, I like what they're doing.

Quote:Or do you wish they went away?

As programs? Certainly not. But do they bring more to me as a fan than what is lost by having a 14 game schedule, and two additional seats at the financial table? I can't make a compelling case why I'd rather play Syracuse every year than any other team from the Coastal.

I like FSU basketball a lot, but it's just not a big enough deal for me to offset the football. I would much rather play GT and VT twice every six years like we used to than play Syracuse every year.

It's a little strong to say I wish they "went away". I don't hate them, or hate playing them. I just don't think they improve the ACC football situation. But I'm rooting for them and hope it ends up someday being a net positive.

Do you consider Cuse, Pitt and Ville as ACC teams?
Yes, they were fully equal members in my mind when they joined.

Do you root for them nonconference?
Absolutely. I'll watch most any ACC men's basketball or Football team play as long as VT isn't playing at the same time.

Do you accept the variety they bring in traditions and attitudes?
Yes. Louisville was a big step up over Maryland in every way. I believe Pitt will be adding to the overall ACC football brand pretty soon with the hires and commitment they've made. Syracuse may never be a power again in football but they can be better than average half the time.

All three plus ND added huge excitement to ACC basketball. As good as the ACC was, adding 2 elite programs like Cuse and Louisville as well as 2 still pretty elite programs like Pitt and ND have made ACC basketball, for me, at least twice as enjoyable if not more.

Or do you wish they went away?
No. There is no one available for which I'd trade any of the 3 of them. That includes WVU who is available in 9 years.

(06-20-2016 02:07 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  I consider Cuse, Pitt and 'Ville all part of the ACC, root for them OOC and accept them wholeheartedly.

I was very impressed with the Yinzer contingent that traveled to Wallace-Wade last season. Then again, I see plenty of PITT shirts/sweaters/jerseys all around the Triangle. They're family.

Keep all of them. I do agree with "Boss" on luring Kentucky in -- that would be all sorts of epic, especially in football if you put UK in the Atlantic Division. On second thought, you'd have to put them in the Coastal, pair them with UL and watch a beautiful thing unfold between UK and UVA.

Even though it would never happen you do have a sizable Kentucky Fanbase that would love to be in the ACC because of Basketball and in their view more favorable schedule in Football

(06-20-2016 10:09 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(06-20-2016 10:02 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  As a Pitt fan, my emotions are somewhat mixed, TBH.

First let me say that when I heard that Pitt and Syracuse were leaving the Big East for the ACC I was ecstatic. I could see the writing on the wall and knew that the Big East was finished as a major player in college football.

It was badly damaged when Miami, Virginia Tech and Boston College left the league back in 2004 and 2005. However, it was still salvageable. When the whole discussions to bring Villanova over, basically against their wishes, that sealed it for me. At that point it became obvious that we were going to die on the vine if we stayed in that conference and I wanted out of it ASAP.

People always misunderstood that from a Pitt perspective. They thought that Pitt was worried about recruiting against Villanova. That was not the fear at all – at least among the people that I know. The fear was trying to recruit against the likes of Penn State, Ohio State, West Virginia, Notre Dame, Michigan, etc. whenever we played in the same conference as a team that played in an 18,000 seat off campus soccer stadium. That was going to be a really difficult hill to climb and I wanted no part of it.

I knew that Penn State would never allow us entrance into the Big Ten so our only realistic hope were the ACC. However, then the Big 12 experienced all of its instability and I don't put up an opportunity for us. They openly flirted with Pitt – likely in an attempt to attract Notre Dame, with whom we have always had a close relationship.

I had no interest in joining a Great Plains-based conference. However, if that was our only ladder out of Saigon, so be it. All ports in a storm, right? I was that desperate to get out of the Big East.

For me, the absolute turning point during all of this came during a rain delay of a Marshall/West Virginia football game. I was driving home from vacation in South Carolina and and I came upon a WVU/Marshall game on the radio. It was raining like hell and everyone else in the car was sound asleep, so the game was welcome company.

Soon after finding it, they halted play due to a bunch of lightning in the area and that led to a long delay. During the delay, the announcer started to talk about all things West Virginia football. They basically turn the game broadcast into a call-in show. About a half an hour in then mountaineer athletic director Oliver Luck appeared on the show and started fielding questions.

Within two or three calls the talk turn to the Big East and it's possible expansion as well as what that meant for West Virginia University.

Well, Luck pulled no punches and basically said in no uncertain terms that West Virginia was actively trying to get out of the Big East and was in talks with a number of different conferences.

That scared the hell out of me. I knew if West Virginia left ahead of us, we were toast. I also knew that would not be the only defect her and that the conference is a whole would likely be toast.

To this day, I have no idea why he would be so open there? But never made any sense to me. Also, I don't know if that had any impact on anything but I will tell you that it was not very long afterwards and watch the news leaked out that Pitt and Syracuse were leaving for the ACC.

I dont remember hearing about that but I do remember Luck saying something to some boosters about leaving the BE. Dr Gross, in a lame excuse to explain why SU was leaving the BE said that word coming out of WV destabilized the league. I still get a chuckle when I think about Luck trying to leave every body in the BE behind, but it was SU and Pitt that left WV behind and put the Eers in desperation mode.

Then to all of the above add in the quotes from Luck after SU and Pitt accepted invites to the ACC.

His Awesomeness in all of his glory.

I miss WVU but I don't miss that a$$hat.

Cheers,
Neil

(06-20-2016 10:32 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  As far as insider/outsider status. From Pitt's perspective, I don't think much has changed from the Big East to the ACC. In that way, we are very different than Boston College and especially Syracuse.

Just watch the Requiem for the Big East 30/30 and Pitt is hardly even mentioned in it. Also, listen to any historical retrospective of the conference and we hardly rate a mention in those as well. Some of that is our own doing but we had a pretty good men's basketball program for a long time and that probably warrants a little more respect than it was given.

For example, Jamie Dixon coached in the Big East for more than a decade and has the best winning percentage of any coach in that league's history. That's a pretty good sample size and that's a lot of winning over the "core" programs. That's probably worth mentioning when doing a retrospective on the conference.

I think the real problem in the Big East is that we were not ever seen as being truly "Northeastern" in the strictest sense. We were always somewhat of an outlier. That's Pittsburgh in general. People were never really sure what we are? Are we Midwestern? Nope, I've lived in Ohio and it's very different culturally. Are we Northeastern? Nope, I've also lived in Boston and we're very different than that place too. The truth is Pittsburgh, probably like Buffalo, is kind of it's own place and that's a major part of the charm. However, it also leads to being excluded in certain situations.

Also, we were always seen it as "an expansion team," even though we joined the conference just three years after its inception and before it really rose to national prominence.

It is the same in the ACC. We will always be one of the northern interlopers to a large section of the league's fans. You see it in a lot of these realignment discussions. It's like, "Okay, now where the hell do we put these three useless northern teams?"

We usually end up in some sort of junk drawer with the league's Southern teams that they don't respect. LOL!

It's all good, Pitt and Penn State had a chance to form their own conference around teams from their region and they each blew it. This is what we both deserve.

Still, it is more than a little amusing to be dismissed as useless by a fan of the team who's been good for about 10 minutes. I've said this before and I will say it again – because it is absolutely true. Consult the Internet or read a book and you will learn that the history of Syracuse and Pitt football blows away that of every ACC school except Florida State and Miami.

In other words, we weren't thrown a lifeline and we don't owe anyone anything. Rather, we were brought in to enhance a product in need of enhancement.

Now, when you talk about your history and tradition, you don't have to show videos of guys Shawn Moore, Will Fuller, Kelvin Bryant and a bunch of other guys no one has ever heard of. Now, you can show videos of Dan Marino, Tony Dorsett, Hugh Green, Mike Ditka, Darrelle Revis, Jim Brown, Floyd Little, Donovan McNabb, Marvin Harrison, etc., and claim them as your own.

It was a fair trade and good business for all sides. However, I don't look at this as anything but a business partnership. I root for other ACC schools only because it benefits Pitt. If it doesn't help my school, I don't really care what happens to the ACC school in question. I rooted for Clemson against Alabama but I rooted against ACC schools in the NCAA tournament. That's because we need to enhance our football credibility but our basketball reputation has long been firmly cemented.

This has been mentioned on previous threads; but Syracuse and Pittsburgh have been long time rivals, if you can call it that since 1916. But it does seem in recent years and decades that when Syracuse is good Pittsburgh is not, and conversely when Pitt is good Syracuse is bad.

(06-20-2016 03:04 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(06-19-2016 03:20 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Do you consider Cuse, Pitt and Ville as ACC teams?

Sure. Not sure what the alternative would be. They're in the conference. We have to play them.

Quote:Do you root for them nonconference?

Most definitely.

Quote:Do you accept the variety they bring in traditions and attitudes?

Umm...like what? I'm a football guy, and I'm just not really seeing a lot brought to the table from SU and Pitt from a football perspective.

I grew up near SU, and have huge respect for the program's history. I like Syracuse, and I followed them, and was dismayed when they fell off the face of the earth. But it's really hard for me to make a case that they enhance the ACC's football experience. They are in a horrible recruiting area, they are a very long trip, and they have not been competitive in football in a long time.

Now, in full disclosure, my opinion is colored strongly by the fact that I don't believe that Syracuse will ever be "back" as a nationally relevant program. I hope I'm wrong, I like the Syracuse posters on here, and I want to see Syracuse do well. But I do think they are destined to be forever between 2-8 and 8-4. I don't think they'll ever be good enough to be a "big game", or will ever have enough national respect to not be a lose-lose scenario.

If I'm wrong, my opinion on Syracuse's value would change dramatically and quickly, because Syracuse is kind of a neat program, in a unique environment, with a cool history. If they every got to the point of being good enough to matter, I think having Syracuse becomes fun. If you had a choice between a Syracuse or say an NC State becoming a top 15 team, then I think Syracuse would be the choice because of it's uniqueness.

But I just don't see a lot of value add to ACC football if they don't get good.

Pitt is quite similar, but just not as much so. I'm a little more intrigued by Pitt's upside than I am Syracuse's. I can picture Pitt being a meaningful player a little more easily. There may be zero to back it up, but I'm a little more hopeful.

Louisville, I'm all in with. Great fit, great replacement for Maryland, I like what they're doing.

Quote:Or do you wish they went away?

As programs? Certainly not. But do they bring more to me as a fan than what is lost by having a 14 game schedule, and two additional seats at the financial table? I can't make a compelling case why I'd rather play Syracuse every year than any other team from the Coastal.

I like FSU basketball a lot, but it's just not a big enough deal for me to offset the football. I would much rather play GT and VT twice every six years like we used to than play Syracuse every year.

It's a little strong to say I wish they "went away". I don't hate them, or hate playing them. I just don't think they improve the ACC football situation. But I'm rooting for them and hope it ends up someday being a net positive.

I hope we can surprise you Lou.

(06-20-2016 10:34 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Do you consider Cuse, Pitt and Ville as ACC teams?
Formally? Yes. Culturally? Not so much.

Do you root for them nonconference?
Absolutely.

Do you accept the variety they bring in traditions and attitudes?
I have a soft spot for Pitt. Cuse is kinda meh. I'm more or less hostile to Louisville, due primarily to geography, academics, Petrino, and a surprising number of U(sic)GA connections.

Or do you wish they went away?
Pitt can stay. Louisville can stay if Kentucky comes in. I don't have much interest in Cuse, but in their defense that goes for pretty much everybody North of the Potomac and Ohio Rivers.

I love PITT in the ACC.. I Love Louisville in the ACC, However with CUSE I am on the fence, however I am glad we have CUSE and do not have UCONN...

I would rather have ECU than UCONN!!

(06-23-2016 11:28 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(06-20-2016 10:34 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Do you consider Cuse, Pitt and Ville as ACC teams?
Formally? Yes. Culturally? Not so much.

Do you root for them nonconference?
Absolutely.

Do you accept the variety they bring in traditions and attitudes?
I have a soft spot for Pitt. Cuse is kinda meh. I'm more or less hostile to Louisville, due primarily to geography, academics, Petrino, and a surprising number of U(sic)GA connections.

Or do you wish they went away?
Pitt can stay. Louisville can stay if Kentucky comes in. I don't have much interest in Cuse, but in their defense that goes for pretty much everybody North of the Potomac and Ohio Rivers.

I love PITT in the ACC.. I Love Louisville in the ACC, However with CUSE I am on the fence, however I am glad we have CUSE and do not have UCONN...

I would rather have ECU than UCONN!!

IMO, BC was the peculiar addition. Yes, they were on a good run in 2004 with Tom O'Brien at head coach, Frank Spaziani at DC, and a rookie QB named Matt Ryan who tormented ACC defenses for the next few years. Even so, the school was and still is located in Greater Boston - a football recruiting desert and a pro sports town for fans. To say the least, it was a bit of a reach (not that I want to kick them out or anything, it was just a strange choice).

(06-23-2016 11:55 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  IMO, BC was the peculiar addition. ... Even so, the school was and still is located in Greater Boston - a football recruiting desert and a pro sports town for fans. To say the least, it was a bit of a reach (not that I want to kick them out or anything, it was just a strange choice).

their inclusion sped up the big yeast's demise ...
most important, University of Miami wanted them ...

GATEWAY TO NEW ENGLAND

(06-23-2016 12:04 PM)green Wrote:  

(06-23-2016 11:55 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  IMO, BC was the peculiar addition. ... Even so, the school was and still is located in Greater Boston - a football recruiting desert and a pro sports town for fans. To say the least, it was a bit of a reach (not that I want to kick them out or anything, it was just a strange choice).

their inclusion sped up the big yeast's demise ...
most important, University of Miami wanted them ...

GATEWAY TO NEW ENGLAND

LOL. "Most important"... that was priceless!!!

(Oh, you were serious?)

Honestly I wish we would have added WVU. In conference games between Pitt-WVU and VT-WVU would have been great.