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Chuck Landon: The MAC has moved ahead of C-USA in virtually every aspect
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Chuck Landon: The MAC has moved ahead of C-USA in virtually every aspect
(06-13-2016 09:16 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  I'd be open to Marshall if WKU came along, but it's not without its potential downsides. On one hand, we get two solid football programs (hence taking away two from C-USA), a historically good basketball team in the Hilltoppers, get to move BG to the West. On the other, there's iffy history to consider with the Herd, both teams would bolt if the AAC came calling, and it would split up our TV money two more ways without adding schools that would instantly boost the MAC's value. I'm willing to consider it, but we need to tread very lightly if we want to go down the Marshall path again.

I don't think they would go to the AAC but I feel like it would make more sense to pursue schools that are more like MAC schools. No offense but Marshall and WKU aren't exactly lighting it on fire academically.

The MAC could look at ODU and FIU....two highly populated states/markets. ODU is really fish out of water in CUSA. The distance between them and the Texas schools is gigantic. Stadium size in CUSA is 40k+ at many schools while they have a more MAC like 22,000 seats. FIU stadium is 23,500 seats also more of a MAC level capacity.

Total Students:

Florida International 54,099
Old Dominion 24,670
Western Kentucky 21,048
Marshall 16,782

I'm still skeptical if going above 12 makes sense at all because of the CFP distribution. Steinbrecher has said that if a group of schools became available that could help the MAC, the MAC might be tempted to expand.
06-13-2016 08:04 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Chuck Landon: The MAC has moved ahead of C-USA in virtually every aspect
(06-13-2016 07:54 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  Wait a sec - when was CUSA ever ahead of the MAC?

When it was CUSA 1.0. Original lineup and the conference those schools are in now.

Cincinnati (AAC)
DePaul (Big East)
Louisville (ACC)
Marquette (Big East)
Saint Louis (Atlantic 10)
South Florida (AAC)
Charlotte (CUSA)
Southern Miss (CUSA)
UAB (CUSA)
Memphis (AAC)
Tulane (AAC)

That version of CUSA was a 4-5 NCAA bi basketball conference. Better even than the AAC of today.
06-13-2016 08:10 PM
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Post: #23
RE: Chuck Landon: The MAC has moved ahead of C-USA in virtually every aspect
(06-13-2016 08:04 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  I'm still skeptical if going above 12 makes sense at all because of the CFP distribution.

It means the school would need to clearly add value. I think Marshall would. Not everyone here agrees with me, obviously.

(I also think Stony Brook would add value. Even fewer of you agree with me on that.)

Quote:Steinbrecher has said that if a group of schools became available that could help the MAC, the MAC might be tempted to expand.

To the media?
06-13-2016 08:58 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Chuck Landon: The MAC has moved ahead of C-USA in virtually every aspect
(06-13-2016 10:40 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  I think Marshall would boost the MAC's value. Another state. A good football program. Whether ESPN would reward us for that additional value is another question, but it's hard to say Marshall doesn't add value.
But a conference is a membership club, not a commercial corporation. The question is not whether Marshall would raise total value of the MAC, but whether it would raise the average value per school, which given that the CFP money starts being watered down above ten schools, seems unlikely.

If Old Dominion was located as close as Marshall, that would be really interesting. OTOH, if they were located as close as Marshall, they wouldn't be on the eastern seaboard, which is part of what would drive interest.

At that distance, the Olympic sports travel cost would have to be taken into account, and adding another East Coast school that was not a workable travel partner for ODU would only exacerbate the travel cost. Which pragmatically would leave ODU and JMU. And there too, while the institutional fit would be much better than with Marshall, the question is whether they would whether it would raise the average value per school .. and that would also seem unlikely.
(This post was last modified: 06-14-2016 05:37 AM by BruceMcF.)
06-14-2016 05:32 AM
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Love and Honor Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Chuck Landon: The MAC has moved ahead of C-USA in virtually every aspect
(06-13-2016 08:04 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(06-13-2016 09:16 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  I'd be open to Marshall if WKU came along, but it's not without its potential downsides. On one hand, we get two solid football programs (hence taking away two from C-USA), a historically good basketball team in the Hilltoppers, get to move BG to the West. On the other, there's iffy history to consider with the Herd, both teams would bolt if the AAC came calling, and it would split up our TV money two more ways without adding schools that would instantly boost the MAC's value. I'm willing to consider it, but we need to tread very lightly if we want to go down the Marshall path again.

I don't think they would go to the AAC but I feel like it would make more sense to pursue schools that are more like MAC schools. No offense but Marshall and WKU aren't exactly lighting it on fire academically.

The MAC could look at ODU and FIU....two highly populated states/markets. ODU is really fish out of water in CUSA. The distance between them and the Texas schools is gigantic. Stadium size in CUSA is 40k+ at many schools while they have a more MAC like 22,000 seats. FIU stadium is 23,500 seats also more of a MAC level capacity.

Total Students:

Florida International 54,099
Old Dominion 24,670
Western Kentucky 21,048
Marshall 16,782

I'm still skeptical if going above 12 makes sense at all because of the CFP distribution. Steinbrecher has said that if a group of schools became available that could help the MAC, the MAC might be tempted to expand.

ODU? Slim chance. FIU? Absolutely not. Unless we were adding The U or someone of that stature, we're not looking anywhere near that far south. Geographic compactness has always been a strength of the MAC, and Marshall/WKU fit that component reasonably well. JMU/ODU stretch it but are doable, UMass/Temple would've been too if they became full members. But like you said, staying at 12 is probably what will happen and probably is the right answer anyways.
06-14-2016 09:03 AM
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Post: #26
RE: Chuck Landon: The MAC has moved ahead of C-USA in virtually every aspect
(06-13-2016 08:58 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  
(06-13-2016 08:04 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  I'm still skeptical if going above 12 makes sense at all because of the CFP distribution.

It means the school would need to clearly add value. I think Marshall would. Not everyone here agrees with me, obviously.

(I also think Stony Brook would add value. Even fewer of you agree with me on that.)

Quote:Steinbrecher has said that if a group of schools became available that could help the MAC, the MAC might be tempted to expand.

To the media?

Yes. He occasionally does radio interviews with Cleveland sports talk radio stations during the football and basketball seasons.
06-14-2016 11:55 AM
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kreed5120 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Chuck Landon: The MAC has moved ahead of C-USA in virtually every aspect
I feel there is no absolutes when it comes to expansion. I don't see the MAC expanding just for the sake of expanding, but if lets say the Big 12 got raided and was forced to fold and a team like Iowa State needed a new home, the MAC would be foolish to not extend them an invite. Not saying they would accept, but it would be worth offering.

Edit: In this highly unlikely scenario of ISU joining the MAC perhaps you also get Wichita State to add FBS football and join the MAC. In said scenario the MAC would instantly become a 2, maybe even a 3 bid conference.
(This post was last modified: 06-14-2016 03:22 PM by kreed5120.)
06-14-2016 02:52 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Chuck Landon: The MAC has moved ahead of C-USA in virtually every aspect
(06-13-2016 08:58 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  
Quote:Steinbrecher has said that if a group of schools became available that could help the MAC, the MAC might be tempted to expand.

To the media?

What he said when asked about expansion a while after the B1G moved to 14 was this.......

1) It will probably be quiet on the expansion front until the media contracts open back up (meaning grant of rights expire)

2) 12 to 14 team conferences may be as big as these conferences get. There is a concern by weaker schools in those conferences that more schools will push them further down the conference pecking order, making it less likely they have a chance at a conference championship.

3) If a school or a group of schools could help the MAC the conference would consider the additions.

To me a group is 3 schools so what are the possible combos?

Temple-UConn-Navy
Marshall-Charlotte-ODU
Marshall-WKU-Middle Tenn

Would it make sense for the MAC to grab Marshall and Old Dominion with the idea that if the AAC collapsed it would make it a better place for Temple if they get left out in the cold?

I know WKU has a good football team lately but ODU has more upside because they have enough talent locally to field a Top 20 team. ODU has a record 57-27 in 7 years of football (.687).

Marshall and ODU are two schools that can handle midweek games. Marshall because its fanbase is large enough and ODU has a large market with only a 22k stadium to fill.

I don't know if WKU has the support for midweek games. Western Kentucky only averaged 17,960 last year and that was without midweek games. ODU has sold out every home football game in its 7 year history and almost a 40 million dollar athletic budget.

ODU has made 11 NCAA tournament appearances since 1980. Last season ODU averaged 7,000 a game in basketball on a crappy CUSA schedule. That would be enough for #1 in the MAC. ODU is regularly noted as one of the top AAC candidates. Charlotte that I mention people think is too far for the MAC. They have been to 10 NCAA tournaments since 1988 and a final four in 1977. A new football stadium in Charlotte, albeit a small one.

I would put ODU as the #1 target followed by Charlotte. Both would help MAC basketball and could thrive on Midweek games with their metros. They could use the MAC deal to improve football recruiting.
(This post was last modified: 06-14-2016 08:16 PM by Kittonhead.)
06-14-2016 08:15 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Chuck Landon: The MAC has moved ahead of C-USA in virtually every aspect
ODU's board just approved a renovation of its stadium from 20k to 22k seats with all the modern amenities.

http://odu.edu/news/2016/6/odu_bov_appro...2C7UigrKhf

Attendance last year averaged over 20,000 and that would make them a close third in the MAC after Ohio and Toledo.

MAC wanted to add ODU 4 years ago but they accepted a surprise offer to CUSA. An offer that sounded too good to pass up to play in a conference with ECU. Little did they know ECU was going to be out the door by next year.
06-14-2016 10:54 PM
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Post: #30
RE: Chuck Landon: The MAC has moved ahead of C-USA in virtually every aspect
Conference USA fans are obviously discussing this Landon column. This was a very interesting take from an East Carolina fan:

(06-16-2016 06:47 AM)baruna falls Wrote:  CUSA also has a narrative problem imo. For those who say that CUSA is more valuable than the MAC, prove it. The MAC has a great story line and has sent teams to the most important BCS bowl game( before name change to Access), something CUSA has not done yet. The MAC represents old line football institutions in Middle America. People love football and people love Middle American, therefor people love the MAC. The MAC's narrative gets respect from people. It just does. There the little league that can. They are also the league that has sent some great teams to the January Big Boy Bowl game, further increasing their value and underdog status. People also know who makes up the MAC, or at least the vast majority of teams. The MAC is household name to sports fans.

That was really nice to hear. This really shows, I think, how weeknight #MACtion has raised the stature of our conference for some fans.

For the whole thread, look here:

http://csnbbs.com/thread-782064.html

(Some Marshall fans seem open to a return to the MAC. Others remain down on the conference.)
(This post was last modified: 06-17-2016 10:08 AM by Schadenfreude.)
06-17-2016 10:07 AM
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JMU2004 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Chuck Landon: The MAC has moved ahead of C-USA in virtually every aspect
I don't think the MAC will do anything.

I think you'll see other G5 conferences follow the MAC's example. Regionalize among like-minded/resources schools.
06-17-2016 10:12 AM
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herdinva Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Chuck Landon: The MAC has moved ahead of C-USA in virtually every aspect
(06-17-2016 10:07 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  Conference USA fans are obviously discussing this Landon column. This was a very interesting take from an East Carolina fan:

(06-16-2016 06:47 AM)baruna falls Wrote:  CUSA also has a narrative problem imo. For those who say that CUSA is more valuable than the MAC, prove it. The MAC has a great story line and has sent teams to the most important BCS bowl game( before name change to Access), something CUSA has not done yet. The MAC represents old line football institutions in Middle America. People love football and people love Middle American, therefor people love the MAC. The MAC's narrative gets respect from people. It just does. There the little league that can. They are also the league that has sent some great teams to the January Big Boy Bowl game, further increasing their value and underdog status. People also know who makes up the MAC, or at least the vast majority of teams. The MAC is household name to sports fans.

That was really nice to hear. This really shows, I think, how weeknight #MACtion has raised the stature of our conference for some fans.

For the whole thread, look here:

http://csnbbs.com/thread-782064.html

(Some Marshall fans seem open to a return to the MAC. Others remain down on the conference.)
I started that thread. Most of the time Landon is a complete idiot, most of us Marshall fans don't even read his crap. You should read the latest suggesting we bring up more FCS schools and split into different conferences with the belt. Like I said, he is an idiot. This was the only piece he has written that made any sense.

Now to the question of whether or not we should have left the MAC to begin with. At the time, CUSA had more to offer (better bowls, more bowls, better money), no different than the AAC is now. During that time the MAC tv was almost nothing and teams who went to bowls lost money. I know that is not the case now but it was then.

Fast forward to today. CUSA is not even half of what it was with only a few teams in it that have any kind of football value which did nothing to help the tv funds, look at the schools now in it. Outside of a few that do have a name people know, they are greatly outnumbered by schools that are not well known and more sunbelt like in appearance and even FCS. If you are a network are you going to give even half of what you were giving before, after the product had changed the way it did? It doesn't matter how well known Marshall or USM or LT is, it doesn't make up for all the others. I know I don't speak for all Marshall fans but this is the way I see it.

Ok, look at the MAC of today. It has been a steady conference, you fixed your bowl money issues, your tv contract improved and being loyal to ESPN after all these years finally paid off. It still shares some of the issues CUSA does, like teams that rank very low and have little to no name recognition, low attendance, but its not on the scale of the same issue in CUSA right now with some of the teams brought in. Bano made some very bad moves going after market instead of going after established programs. People can talk of potential and market all day long, but in the current state it means nothing unless that program realizes its potential and becomes relevant in its market. Just a case in point, espn only bought 5 games, of those 5 Marshall and USM are the only 2 bought games that doesn't involve a P5 opponent. That in itself proves that a programs value does override its market with neither USM or Marshall being in a large market, while the other 3 games it took a P5 opponent to make ESPN buy them, like FIU vs. Indiana, they didn't buy it for FIU.

So I will be one to say that yes, currently the MAC is a better conference right now. I wouldn't mind seeing Marshall playing Toledo, BG, Ohio, Miami, NIU, W. Michigan on a regular basis again, it sure beats the heck out of playing what we have to deal with now and our rivalries with MAC members still exist. The only team I would miss playing would be USM. I would say LT but we have only played them once since all this realignment crap. The adds that were good for CUSA were MT, WKY, LT, ODU, outside of that some where definitely bad and some are still up in the air.

So would I mind going back to the MAC at this day and time, nope I sure wouldn't mind at all. Is staying put and HOPING CUSA will renew its image the best thing..........I don't think anyone can answer that question with a straight face.

Anyways, just my two cents. Please don't flame, didn't post for a flaming war.
06-17-2016 01:54 PM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Chuck Landon: The MAC has moved ahead of C-USA in virtually every aspect
Of all the recent realignment hoohaa I am honestly intrigued by splitting up CUSA and the Sun Belt and then realigning all those schools more closely along geographic lines. You'd have a midwest MAC (current MAC) an eastern MAC (new CUSA with the eastern schools) and a southern MAC (new Belt with the southern schools.)
06-17-2016 02:54 PM
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cmufanatic Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Chuck Landon: The MAC has moved ahead of C-USA in virtually every aspect
(06-17-2016 02:54 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Of all the recent realignment hoohaa I am honestly intrigued by splitting up CUSA and the Sun Belt and then realigning all those schools more closely along geographic lines. You'd have a midwest MAC (current MAC) an eastern MAC (new CUSA with the eastern schools) and a southern MAC (new Belt with the southern schools.)

Pretty good idea, the winner then of this MAC could then be a member of the NCAA playoff if it were to expand
06-17-2016 03:07 PM
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DICK Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Chuck Landon: The MAC has moved ahead of C-USA in virtually every aspect
Even if an addition of WKU and Marshall would increase competition and marketability, it would cost each MAC team a bunch of money. The ESPN contract is locked in for a decade, and we were fortunate to negotiate it when we did. ESPN is currently in a sports contract reduction phase. If we had to renegotiate our contract right now, we would lose value. Until ESPN gets there finances in order, there is no chance of them upping our contract by bringing in a couple more schools.
06-17-2016 09:55 PM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Chuck Landon: The MAC has moved ahead of C-USA in virtually every aspect
I would not want Marshall back in for one simple reason. If CUSA finds it's footing and manages to match the MAC's TV money they will be clamoring to get right back out.
06-17-2016 10:23 PM
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RE: Chuck Landon: The MAC has moved ahead of C-USA in virtually every aspect
(06-17-2016 10:07 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  Conference USA fans are obviously discussing this Landon column. This was a very interesting take from an East Carolina fan:

(06-16-2016 06:47 AM)baruna falls Wrote:  CUSA also has a narrative problem imo. For those who say that CUSA is more valuable than the MAC, prove it. The MAC has a great story line and has sent teams to the most important BCS bowl game( before name change to Access), something CUSA has not done yet. The MAC represents old line football institutions in Middle America. People love football and people love Middle American, therefor people love the MAC. The MAC's narrative gets respect from people. It just does. There the little league that can. They are also the league that has sent some great teams to the January Big Boy Bowl game, further increasing their value and underdog status. People also know who makes up the MAC, or at least the vast majority of teams. The MAC is household name to sports fans.

That was really nice to hear. This really shows, I think, how weeknight #MACtion has raised the stature of our conference for some fans.

For the whole thread, look here:

http://csnbbs.com/thread-782064.html

(Some Marshall fans seem open to a return to the MAC. Others remain down on the conference.)

Speaking of which I was in Aberdeen Maryland for work and talking to people from several other centers (Upstate NY, Memphis, and locally in MD) I was really surprised how many of the schools they could name (had trouble with Ball State and forgot a Michigan school but not bad), how much they knew in general, and had a lot of positive comments about the conference. Considering that I have little reason to believe that they otherwise would know the schools I would have to imagine that MACtion was the reason they knew as much as they did.
06-17-2016 10:29 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Chuck Landon: The MAC has moved ahead of C-USA in virtually every aspect
(06-17-2016 03:07 PM)cmufanatic Wrote:  
(06-17-2016 02:54 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Of all the recent realignment hoohaa I am honestly intrigued by splitting up CUSA and the Sun Belt and then realigning all those schools more closely along geographic lines. You'd have a midwest MAC (current MAC) an eastern MAC (new CUSA with the eastern schools) and a southern MAC (new Belt with the southern schools.)

Pretty good idea, the winner then of this MAC could then be a member of the NCAA playoff if it were to expand

I love it. I'd settle for a playoff between these three conferences to get into the main playoff.
06-21-2016 03:05 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Chuck Landon: The MAC has moved ahead of C-USA in virtually every aspect
I would rather add NDSU and UNI and move Toledo and EMU to the East. In this, you have a championship caliber program in NDSU, a serious contender in UNI, the East gains respectability in adding Toledo and Eastern gets 2-3 more wins a year.
06-21-2016 10:03 PM
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uakronkid Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Chuck Landon: The MAC has moved ahead of C-USA in virtually every aspect
If we invite NDSU, even NIU would be east of center.
06-22-2016 05:18 AM
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