The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

This topic has come up in a handful of threads and ruined them in the process.

Until I can find any evidence that there is a direct relationship with athletics making a degree worth more my opinion will remain that it is not the case.

I have not found any actual data that can show this.
Lots of articles talking about it, with Yes and No answers.

Here's an example of what a great football program can do for academics. University of Alabama led the country in National Merit Scholars in 2013.
http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20.../130209858

Any wonder that they were in the middle of a dominant run at football during that period? Good athletics attracts more applicants. The more applicants, the better the student body. As a student body increases in quality, so do the alums. Corporations take notice and your diploma suddenly becomes more valuable. It's a domino effect.

Those outlier institutions that you have mentioned are mostly small and/or private schools that have the ability to be selective.

Large public schools don't have that as an option.

The farther you go from the school, the more likely how you do in athletics will reflect on how aware people are of the school assuming you aren't a name brand (Ivy league, large flagship public)

This helps with networking, etc.

I've gotten into a couple random conversations about our football team spurred by my ODU alumni license plate frame up here in NJ that surprise me.

Play word association. Name a school and name the first person that comes to mind. Or state the first thing that comes to mind.

Alabama = football. Bear Bryant. Saban
Miami= the u
Michigan= the big house. Tom Brady. Harbaugh

The point is u typically don't mention a highly regarded professor when thinking of a school. I do not have any quantitative date to back up
My argument, but rather anecdotal evidence.

People recognize the school because of athletics and it enhances your degree.

Athletics are important for school recognition, unless you go to an Ivy League school.

But ultimately, your degree is worth what you make of it.

(06-10-2016 06:51 PM)devyanks90 Wrote:  The farther you go from the school, the more likely how you do in athletics will reflect on how aware people are of the school assuming you aren't a name brand (Ivy league, large flagship public)

This helps with networking, etc.

I've gotten into a couple random conversations about our football team spurred by my ODU alumni license plate frame up here in NJ that surprise me.

This X1000

If you travel outside of Virginia, you will definitely see the difference. Old Dominion carries a better name than James Madison. In-state, Old Dominion carries a better name than Radford. The difference? Athletics.

Living in Minnesota, I'm actually surprised how often people know what "ODU" means when I reference it when asked where I went to school.

Only ONCE have I had someone say "Oh, Ohio Dominican?"

I was at the National Duals at Ohio State, and Ohio Dominican is in Columbus, so that'll get a pass.

(06-10-2016 08:10 PM)The Flagship Wrote:  

(06-10-2016 06:51 PM)devyanks90 Wrote:  The farther you go from the school, the more likely how you do in athletics will reflect on how aware people are of the school assuming you aren't a name brand (Ivy league, large flagship public)

This helps with networking, etc.

I've gotten into a couple random conversations about our football team spurred by my ODU alumni license plate frame up here in NJ that surprise me.

This X1000

If you travel outside of Virginia, you will definitely see the difference. Old Dominion carries a better name than James Madison. In-state, Old Dominion carries a better name than Radford. The difference? Athletics.

That may be the case with sports fan but not with non sports fans. Im a huge sports fan, but I generally think of quality of school.

Georgetown
Stanford
Ivy school
UVA
DUKE

(06-10-2016 06:42 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  Here's an example of what a great football program can do for academics. University of Alabama led the country in National Merit Scholars in 2013.
http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20.../130209858

Any wonder that they were in the middle of a dominant run at football during that period? Good athletics attracts more applicants. The more applicants, the better the student body. As a student body increases in quality, so do the alums. Corporations take notice and your diploma suddenly becomes more valuable. It's a domino effect.

Those outlier institutions that you have mentioned are mostly small and/or private schools that have the ability to be selective.

Large public schools don't have that as an option.

Alabama led the nation in National Merit Scholars because they're trying to improve their academics. They are, or were when my son graduated, giving National Merit Scholars a completely free ride. So NMSs were going to Alabama because it was free. Not because of their athletic programs.

(06-10-2016 06:42 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  Here's an example of what a great football program can do for academics. University of Alabama led the country in National Merit Scholars in 2013.
http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20.../130209858

Any wonder that they were in the middle of a dominant run at football during that period? Good athletics attracts more applicants. The more applicants, the better the student body. As a student body increases in quality, so do the alums. Corporations take notice and your diploma suddenly becomes more valuable. It's a domino effect.

Those outlier institutions that you have mentioned are mostly small and/or private schools that have the ability to be selective.

Large public schools don't have that as an option.

Not having that as an option doesn't mean I'm wrong.
Look at our cousin Christopher Newport University. It's not the sports that is turning that school into something special.
IF you guys are correct, then these guys will be the first school I point to as to the best return for the dollar spent on "making the degree worth more"

(06-10-2016 07:15 PM)BigBlue23 Wrote:  Play word association. Name a school and name the first person that comes to mind. Or state the first thing that comes to mind.

Alabama = football. Bear Bryant. Saban
Miami= the u
Michigan= the big house. Tom Brady. Harbaugh

The point is u typically don't mention a highly regarded professor when thinking of a school. I do not have any quantitative date to back up
My argument, but rather anecdotal evidence.

People recognize the school because of athletics and it enhances your degree.

I understand what you are saying, but I'm looking for actual numbers.
People know University of Phoenix, Devry, etc... Yet their degrees are garbage.

(06-10-2016 08:10 PM)The Flagship Wrote:  

(06-10-2016 06:51 PM)devyanks90 Wrote:  The farther you go from the school, the more likely how you do in athletics will reflect on how aware people are of the school assuming you aren't a name brand (Ivy league, large flagship public)

This helps with networking, etc.

I've gotten into a couple random conversations about our football team spurred by my ODU alumni license plate frame up here in NJ that surprise me.

This X1000

If you travel outside of Virginia, you will definitely see the difference. Old Dominion carries a better name than James Madison. In-state, Old Dominion carries a better name than Radford. The difference? Athletics.

I have in laws up in NJ. I go up there once a month. I have yet to hear anybody up there say anything except OD WHO?
Brother and Sister in law are both starting the college phase. They have friends that have applied to JMU and GMU. Asked them if they know or have considered ODU.... it's a big nope for them and their friends. Being in NJ, I figured you'd get that as well. All that NE academic pride.
My friends in NYC heard of us, but they say it's because of the NIT. That's all they could say about it. That had no idea if it is a good school to go to or not.
As for Radford, there are a surprising number of Radford grads in the area around ODU. (Thanks to their Alumni stickers on their cars) More than I figured there would be for a school that's 1/2 our size and so far away.

(06-10-2016 09:45 PM)ODUwildman Wrote:  Living in Minnesota, I'm actually surprised how often people know what "ODU" means when I reference it when asked where I went to school.

Only ONCE have I had someone say "Oh, Ohio Dominican?"

I was at the National Duals at Ohio State, and Ohio Dominican is in Columbus, so that'll get a pass.

I'm from MN. Born and raised. I go up that way (St. Paul and Duluth) maybe every 6 months or so to visit the family I left to deal with all mosquitoes and potholes. Growing up there everybody I associated with wanted to go to Carleton. If they couldn't then St. Thomas or Hamline University as their safeties THEN the UofM unless they were going for engineering, then UofM was their top pick. That's obviously not the case with everybody in the state, just the crowd I grew up and still associate with. Your mileage may vary.

(06-10-2016 10:13 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-10-2016 08:10 PM)The Flagship Wrote:  

(06-10-2016 06:51 PM)devyanks90 Wrote:  The farther you go from the school, the more likely how you do in athletics will reflect on how aware people are of the school assuming you aren't a name brand (Ivy league, large flagship public)

This helps with networking, etc.

I've gotten into a couple random conversations about our football team spurred by my ODU alumni license plate frame up here in NJ that surprise me.

This X1000

If you travel outside of Virginia, you will definitely see the difference. Old Dominion carries a better name than James Madison. In-state, Old Dominion carries a better name than Radford. The difference? Athletics.

That may be the case with sports fan but not with non sports fans. Im a huge sports fan, but I generally think of quality of school.

Georgetown
Stanford
Ivy school
UVA
DUKE

(06-10-2016 10:40 PM)Old Monarch Wrote:  This, A school being famous and a school that puts out graduates that get hired first and for the best jobs are two different things.

A lot of jobs now a days are just looking for a degree to check the box. I guess having a school be famous helps the HR by not having to look up the school to see if it's real or not, and you might get hired over somebody else because your future boss and you both went to the same school... but that could be said for any school and I'm sure there has been a case where somebody opted to hire the graduate who was not from their rival school.

I travel a lot. I've found 1 person in Houston during an extended stay down there that knows who ODU is. They watch football.
I will give you that there are a good handful people in San Diego, Jacksonville, and Seattle that know our school. All military transfers though.

(06-10-2016 06:42 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  Here's an example of what a great football program can do for academics. University of Alabama led the country in National Merit Scholars in 2013.
http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20.../130209858

Any wonder that they were in the middle of a dominant run at football during that period? Good athletics attracts more applicants. The more applicants, the better the student body. As a student body increases in quality, so do the alums. Corporations take notice and your diploma suddenly becomes more valuable. It's a domino effect.

Those outlier institutions that you have mentioned are mostly small and/or private schools that have the ability to be selective.

Large public schools don't have that as an option.

Alabama led the nation in National Merit Scholars because they're trying to improve their academics. They are, or were when my son graduated, giving National Merit Scholars a completely free ride. So NMSs were going to Alabama because it was free. Not because of their athletic programs.

I can work with this. Not exactly what I was looking for to state the case either way. All the other examples are pretty much saying sports make you popular, the popularity makes you valuable. I don't agree.

Ideally I can find a paper written by an economist or somebody that can back up their message with actual data. Now you all may very well be correct but I'm not convinced.

All things being equal, if any of you where an owner of a company. Would you hire a graduate from a big sports school or a graduate from a school that's say Division III but produces quality engineers, lawyers, MBA's... what ever.

I'm actually going to follow up on this, as my sister in law is considering them for a Softball scholarship among others. She's leaning towards Duke to start their program though, or going to one of the small private schools in PA.


I appreciate all the responses. I am hoping I'm not pissing anybody off (too badly). I hear the claim made on this board a lot, but I can't seem to find out if that is actually the case.

+1

I interview and hire new college grads as I'm sure many on these boards do. I don't care what school the person is from. It's all about the interview process for me. The school might spark conversation to loosen things up and relax the interviewee. "Oh I see you went to Akron - go zips, what brings you to Virginia?" Then we get into the individual, what they can bring to the table, and if they would be a fit. I've never made an offer based on the perceived quality school and I've never passed on someone bc of the perceived negative reputation of the school. I've hired people from (gulp) VCU and not hired people from UVA. I've hired people who have thrived from Roanoke College (fine school, but certainly not at the forefront of the nations minds). It's all about the person and weather or not we feel they're a fit for the industry, company, and even local team.

I do buy in to the theory that when athletics is used as a marketing arm it can make a school more recognizable, create more interest and bring in a better pool of applicants and raise the profile. My cousin just graduated from U. Alabama last month. She's from San Diego, CA and could have gone to any number of schools between CA and the east coast. She visited UA and fell in love with the campus and the she admitted that the thought of all the fun she would have surrounding Saturday's in the Fall were a big part of her decision. She has a public relations degree now and moved back home to Cali. She could get a public relations degree anywhere. I have a hunch that UA winning the national championship her senior year in HS made her look at a school that she wouldn't have thought of. A girl from southern cal moving to Alabama? Sports made her notice it's a great place for her. So I think athletic profile helps get you noticed, but it's up to you to get hired.

There's no data in anything I laid out. Purely anecdotal but I think there's a couple value points added to your degree due to athletics as a "foot in the door" to allow you to be seen.

Notre Dame, think you would have heard about this small Catholic school without football.

(06-10-2016 10:13 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-10-2016 08:10 PM)The Flagship Wrote:  

(06-10-2016 06:51 PM)devyanks90 Wrote:  The farther you go from the school, the more likely how you do in athletics will reflect on how aware people are of the school assuming you aren't a name brand (Ivy league, large flagship public)

This helps with networking, etc.

I've gotten into a couple random conversations about our football team spurred by my ODU alumni license plate frame up here in NJ that surprise me.

This X1000

If you travel outside of Virginia, you will definitely see the difference. Old Dominion carries a better name than James Madison. In-state, Old Dominion carries a better name than Radford. The difference? Athletics.

That may be the case with sports fan but not with non sports fans. Im a huge sports fan, but I generally think of quality of school.

Georgetown
Stanford
Ivy school
UVA
DUKE

Well yeah. It's called marketing. And college athletics are used to market to student athletes and sports fans varying from 1% to 100%.

But let's stay within our "peers". I'll throw out a couple of names and tell me if you have ever heard of them, and why.
Stephen F. Austin
Northern Iowa
Mercer
Butler
North Dakota State

Honestly before this year.
I don't watch BB, and only watch D2 or D3 FB during the playoffs.

Stephen F. Austin - Drove by their campus a lot
Northern Iowa - Nope
Mercer - Nope
Butler - Yep, had friends that went there
North Dakota State- Yep, grew up in MN. They have ads along I-35 between the Twin Cities and Duluth

I'm not the biggest sports fan, so perhaps you'll believe me perhaps not.

(06-11-2016 08:01 AM)GhentFan Wrote:  Honestly before this year.
I don't watch BB, and only watch D2 or D3 FB during the playoffs.

Stephen F. Austin - Drove by their campus a lot
Northern Iowa - Nope
Mercer - Nope
Butler - Yep, had friends that went there
North Dakota State- Yep, grew up in MN. They have ads along I-35 between the Twin Cities and Duluth

I'm not the biggest sports fan, so perhaps you'll believe me perhaps not.

No reason to not believe you. But if you were a sports fan, those names would be somewhat recognizable, and not because of proximity reasons.

(06-11-2016 08:01 AM)GhentFan Wrote:  Honestly before this year.
I don't watch BB, and only watch D2 or D3 FB during the playoffs.

Stephen F. Austin - Drove by their campus a lot
Northern Iowa - Nope
Mercer - Nope
Butler - Yep, had friends that went there
North Dakota State- Yep, grew up in MN. They have ads along I-35 between the Twin Cities and Duluth

I'm not the biggest sports fan, so perhaps you'll believe me perhaps not.

Are you from East Texas?

(06-11-2016 01:25 AM)GhentFan Wrote:  

(06-10-2016 06:42 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  Here's an example of what a great football program can do for academics. University of Alabama led the country in National Merit Scholars in 2013.
http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20.../130209858

Any wonder that they were in the middle of a dominant run at football during that period? Good athletics attracts more applicants. The more applicants, the better the student body. As a student body increases in quality, so do the alums. Corporations take notice and your diploma suddenly becomes more valuable. It's a domino effect.

Those outlier institutions that you have mentioned are mostly small and/or private schools that have the ability to be selective.

Large public schools don't have that as an option.

Not having that as an option doesn't mean I'm wrong.
Look at our cousin Christopher Newport University. It's not the sports that is turning that school into something special.
IF you guys are correct, then these guys will be the first school I point to as to the best return for the dollar spent on "making the degree worth more"

CNU has an important attribute that allows a school to be more selective, they are small (around 5k undergrads). They aren't a school we can use as a roadmap to increasing selectivity, since we have very little in common past the shared area code and state.

(06-11-2016 09:18 AM)ODU AGGIE Wrote:  

(06-11-2016 08:01 AM)GhentFan Wrote:  Honestly before this year.
I don't watch BB, and only watch D2 or D3 FB during the playoffs.

Stephen F. Austin - Drove by their campus a lot
Northern Iowa - Nope
Mercer - Nope
Butler - Yep, had friends that went there
North Dakota State- Yep, grew up in MN. They have ads along I-35 between the Twin Cities and Duluth

I'm not the biggest sports fan, so perhaps you'll believe me perhaps not.

Are you from East Texas?

When I worked out of Houston for a while. Had me going all over the place. (Oil industry)

Carlton, St. Thomas, and Hemline? Never heard of any of them. No offense to CNU because it is a good school, but if you lived in Missouri you wouldn't have heard of them either.

I doubt you will find real statistics showing athletics enhances the value of your degree but people go to schools with well known athletic programs for school pride and recognition outside of their small town.

Ohio State is a good school but it is pretty well known that you don't have to be a rocket scientist to get in there if you live in Ohio. Yet they are wildly popular because of their athletic programs.

From what I've seen, where you went to school does at least make a difference. You are simply looked at higher in the beginning stages if you have a degree from Georgetown vs. Hampton. THere are plenty of schools that have no athletic reputation but are thought of highly. Washington and Lee is one, for example.