(06-10-2016 06:42 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: Here's an example of what a great football program can do for academics. University of Alabama led the country in National Merit Scholars in 2013.
http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20.../130209858
Any wonder that they were in the middle of a dominant run at football during that period? Good athletics attracts more applicants. The more applicants, the better the student body. As a student body increases in quality, so do the alums. Corporations take notice and your diploma suddenly becomes more valuable. It's a domino effect.
Those outlier institutions that you have mentioned are mostly small and/or private schools that have the ability to be selective.
Large public schools don't have that as an option.
Not having that as an option doesn't mean I'm wrong.
Look at our cousin Christopher Newport University. It's not the sports that is turning that school into something special.
IF you guys are correct, then these guys will be the first school I point to as to the best return for the dollar spent on "making the degree worth more"
(06-10-2016 07:15 PM)BigBlue23 Wrote: Play word association. Name a school and name the first person that comes to mind. Or state the first thing that comes to mind.
Alabama = football. Bear Bryant. Saban
Miami= the u
Michigan= the big house. Tom Brady. Harbaugh
The point is u typically don't mention a highly regarded professor when thinking of a school. I do not have any quantitative date to back up
My argument, but rather anecdotal evidence.
People recognize the school because of athletics and it enhances your degree.
I understand what you are saying, but I'm looking for actual numbers.
People know University of Phoenix, Devry, etc... Yet their degrees are garbage.
(06-10-2016 08:10 PM)The Flagship Wrote: (06-10-2016 06:51 PM)devyanks90 Wrote: The farther you go from the school, the more likely how you do in athletics will reflect on how aware people are of the school assuming you aren't a name brand (Ivy league, large flagship public)
This helps with networking, etc.
I've gotten into a couple random conversations about our football team spurred by my ODU alumni license plate frame up here in NJ that surprise me.
This X1000
If you travel outside of Virginia, you will definitely see the difference. Old Dominion carries a better name than James Madison. In-state, Old Dominion carries a better name than Radford. The difference? Athletics.
I have in laws up in NJ. I go up there once a month. I have yet to hear anybody up there say anything except OD WHO?
Brother and Sister in law are both starting the college phase. They have friends that have applied to JMU and GMU. Asked them if they know or have considered ODU.... it's a big nope for them and their friends. Being in NJ, I figured you'd get that as well. All that NE academic pride.
My friends in NYC heard of us, but they say it's because of the NIT. That's all they could say about it. That had no idea if it is a good school to go to or not.
As for Radford, there are a surprising number of Radford grads in the area around ODU. (Thanks to their Alumni stickers on their cars) More than I figured there would be for a school that's 1/2 our size and so far away.
(06-10-2016 09:45 PM)ODUwildman Wrote: Living in Minnesota, I'm actually surprised how often people know what "ODU" means when I reference it when asked where I went to school.
Only ONCE have I had someone say "Oh, Ohio Dominican?"
I was at the National Duals at Ohio State, and Ohio Dominican is in Columbus, so that'll get a pass.
I'm from MN. Born and raised. I go up that way (St. Paul and Duluth) maybe every 6 months or so to visit the family I left to deal with all mosquitoes and potholes. Growing up there everybody I associated with wanted to go to Carleton. If they couldn't then St. Thomas or Hamline University as their safeties THEN the UofM unless they were going for engineering, then UofM was their top pick. That's obviously not the case with everybody in the state, just the crowd I grew up and still associate with. Your mileage may vary.
(06-10-2016 10:13 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: (06-10-2016 08:10 PM)The Flagship Wrote: (06-10-2016 06:51 PM)devyanks90 Wrote: The farther you go from the school, the more likely how you do in athletics will reflect on how aware people are of the school assuming you aren't a name brand (Ivy league, large flagship public)
This helps with networking, etc.
I've gotten into a couple random conversations about our football team spurred by my ODU alumni license plate frame up here in NJ that surprise me.
This X1000
If you travel outside of Virginia, you will definitely see the difference. Old Dominion carries a better name than James Madison. In-state, Old Dominion carries a better name than Radford. The difference? Athletics.
That may be the case with sports fan but not with non sports fans. Im a huge sports fan, but I generally think of quality of school.
Georgetown
Stanford
Ivy school
UVA
DUKE
(06-10-2016 10:40 PM)Old Monarch Wrote: This, A school being famous and a school that puts out graduates that get hired first and for the best jobs are two different things.
A lot of jobs now a days are just looking for a degree to check the box. I guess having a school be famous helps the HR by not having to look up the school to see if it's real or not, and you might get hired over somebody else because your future boss and you both went to the same school... but that could be said for any school and I'm sure there has been a case where somebody opted to hire the graduate who was not from their rival school.
I travel a lot. I've found 1 person in Houston during an extended stay down there that knows who ODU is. They watch football.
I will give you that there are a good handful people in San Diego, Jacksonville, and Seattle that know our school. All military transfers though.
(06-10-2016 06:42 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: Here's an example of what a great football program can do for academics. University of Alabama led the country in National Merit Scholars in 2013.
http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20.../130209858
Any wonder that they were in the middle of a dominant run at football during that period? Good athletics attracts more applicants. The more applicants, the better the student body. As a student body increases in quality, so do the alums. Corporations take notice and your diploma suddenly becomes more valuable. It's a domino effect.
Those outlier institutions that you have mentioned are mostly small and/or private schools that have the ability to be selective.
Large public schools don't have that as an option.
Alabama led the nation in National Merit Scholars because they're trying to improve their academics. They are, or were when my son graduated, giving National Merit Scholars a completely free ride. So NMSs were going to Alabama because it was free. Not because of their athletic programs.
I can work with this. Not exactly what I was looking for to state the case either way. All the other examples are pretty much saying sports make you popular, the popularity makes you valuable. I don't agree.
Ideally I can find a paper written by an economist or somebody that can back up their message with actual data. Now you all may very well be correct but I'm not convinced.
All things being equal, if any of you where an owner of a company. Would you hire a graduate from a big sports school or a graduate from a school that's say Division III but produces quality engineers, lawyers, MBA's... what ever.
I'm actually going to follow up on this, as my sister in law is considering them for a Softball scholarship among others. She's leaning towards Duke to start their program though, or going to one of the small private schools in PA.
I appreciate all the responses. I am hoping I'm not pissing anybody off (too badly). I hear the claim made on this board a lot, but I can't seem to find out if that is actually the case.