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BullsFanInTX Offline
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Post: #1
CUSA/Group of 5 TV dollars.
If the numbers from this article are to be believed (and I know there have been several numbers floating around from various sources), CUSA took a major hit in TV dollars in it's new deal. 200K per school, per year in TV revenue.

So question is, does this affect other G5 conferences in their new deals? Is the P5 affected at all? It appears the AAC and MWC are significantly ahead in revenue from the other G5 conferences. Does this stay the same? Does the AAC get an even larger deal next time? Or do they drop also? Is there a new G2 (AAC/MWC) and a G3 (the rest). Or does this bode terribly for everyone equally? Thoughts?

http://pilotonline.com/sports/college/ol...957e7.html

The value of Conference USA's television contracts has eroded even more than earlier reports indicated.

The league will receive about $2.8 million in TV revenue in 2016-2017 from its four broadcast networks, according to documents The Virginian-Pilot obtained under the Freedom of Information Act.

That's about $200,000 for each school, according to notes Old Dominion officials received during C-USA's spring meetings last month.

It represents a steep decline from from the $15.4 million, or about $1.1 million per school, to be distributed this year.

------

Conference USA now appears fourth in the so called Group of 5 mid-major leagues when it comes to TV money. The American Athletic ($2 million per school), the Mountain West ($1.7 million) and Mid-American ($670,000) are all estimated to be well ahead of C-USA, which had the misfortune of being the first league to renegotiate its TV contracts during the current decline in cable sports revenue.

The Sun Belt is last at about $100,000.
06-07-2016 01:06 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #2
RE: CUSA/Group of 5 TV dollars.
I will say this: I never bought into the idea of a geographical reshuffle of CUSA and Sun Belt — the logistics would be borderline impossible — but if these numbers hash out, then the difference between the two contracts are low enough that it becomes more feasible. I mean, if you're going to get peanuts, at least shorten the drive to the peanut store.
06-07-2016 01:25 PM
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BullsFanInTX Offline
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Post: #3
RE: CUSA/Group of 5 TV dollars.
(06-07-2016 01:25 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I will say this: I never bought into the idea of a geographical reshuffle of CUSA and Sun Belt — the logistics would be borderline impossible — but if these numbers hash out, then the difference between the two contracts are low enough that it becomes more feasible. I mean, if you're going to get peanuts, at least shorten the drive to the peanut store.

Not sure any CUSA schools would go for this. CUSA is still perceived by some as a step up from the Sun Belt...therefore, if any went back to a Sun Belt type league, it would be an admission that they made a lateral move.
06-07-2016 01:54 PM
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Carolina_Low_Country Offline
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Post: #4
RE: CUSA/Group of 5 TV dollars.
Disband both conferences and just re-brand completely as different conferences:
Eastern Athletic Conference
NORTH
Marshall
Western Kentucky
Middle Tennessee
Old Dominion
Appalachian State
Charlotte
Coastal Carolina
CHAMPIONSHIP GAME: Atlanta, GA Turner Field
SOUTH
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
FAU
FIU
UAB
Troy
South Alabama

Southwestern Conference
EAST
Southern Miss
Missouri State
Arkansas State
ULM
Louisiana
Louisiana Tech
CHAMPIONSHIP GAME: Houston, TX Reliant Stadium
WEST
Rice
Texas State
UTSA
North Texas
UTEP
New Mexico State
06-07-2016 03:56 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #5
RE: CUSA/Group of 5 TV dollars.
(06-07-2016 01:25 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I will say this: I never bought into the idea of a geographical reshuffle of CUSA and Sun Belt — the logistics would be borderline impossible — but if these numbers hash out, then the difference between the two contracts are low enough that it becomes more feasible. I mean, if you're going to get peanuts, at least shorten the drive to the peanut store.

I agree. For these fantasy SB/CUSA realignment scenarios to work, the money and bowl access had to pretty much even out. It looks like that has occurred. So the conditions are now set up for two regional conferences (one west and one east) to form if enough schools begin to see it as a way to cut expenses enough to improve the finances. If you lose $500K in media income but cut expenses by a $1 million---you got your income back plus a little extra. If more regional conference create a few more drivable games--schools might even see higher ticket sales due to visiting fans. Not to mention, Fox SW might be back at the table if a conference has 12 schools in the Fox-SW footprint.
(This post was last modified: 06-07-2016 06:41 PM by Attackcoog.)
06-07-2016 06:38 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #6
RE: CUSA/Group of 5 TV dollars.
$5
06-07-2016 07:30 PM
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Hilltop75 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: CUSA/Group of 5 TV dollars.
(06-07-2016 06:38 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 01:25 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I will say this: I never bought into the idea of a geographical reshuffle of CUSA and Sun Belt — the logistics would be borderline impossible — but if these numbers hash out, then the difference between the two contracts are low enough that it becomes more feasible. I mean, if you're going to get peanuts, at least shorten the drive to the peanut store.

I agree. For these fantasy SB/CUSA realignment scenarios to work, the money and bowl access had to pretty much even out. It looks like that has occurred. So the conditions are now set up for two regional conferences (one west and one east) to form if enough schools begin to see it as a way to cut expenses enough to improve the finances. If you lose $500K in media income but cut expenses by a $1 million---you got your income back plus a little extra. If more regional conference create a few more drivable games--schools might even see higher ticket sales due to visiting fans. Not to mention, Fox SW might be back at the table if a conference has 12 schools in the Fox-SW footprint.

How the heck do you consider the TV tevenue the same the sbc had 100k total
06-07-2016 07:38 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #8
RE: CUSA/Group of 5 TV dollars.
(06-07-2016 07:38 PM)Hilltop75 Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 06:38 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 01:25 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I will say this: I never bought into the idea of a geographical reshuffle of CUSA and Sun Belt — the logistics would be borderline impossible — but if these numbers hash out, then the difference between the two contracts are low enough that it becomes more feasible. I mean, if you're going to get peanuts, at least shorten the drive to the peanut store.

I agree. For these fantasy SB/CUSA realignment scenarios to work, the money and bowl access had to pretty much even out. It looks like that has occurred. So the conditions are now set up for two regional conferences (one west and one east) to form if enough schools begin to see it as a way to cut expenses enough to improve the finances. If you lose $500K in media income but cut expenses by a $1 million---you got your income back plus a little extra. If more regional conference create a few more drivable games--schools might even see higher ticket sales due to visiting fans. Not to mention, Fox SW might be back at the table if a conference has 12 schools in the Fox-SW footprint.

How the heck do you consider the TV tevenue the same the sbc had 100k total

Because its close enough that it doesnt really matter for the scenario that was mentioned. If travel expenses go down a million dollars by reorganizing into two regional leagues--even if you lose $200K in media income you're still $800K better off. Money saved spends the same as money earned. If tickets sales go up due to more traveling fans, you're even better off. Plus, like I said, these tighter regional leagues that are concentrated within a regional sports networks footprint (like Fox SW for instance) might be a place to pick up that lost $200K in media earnings. Im not saying they are exactly the same--Im saying the difference isn't a deal breaker like it was when CUSA schools were making over a million a year and had 7 bowl ties to the Sunbelts 3.
(This post was last modified: 06-07-2016 08:31 PM by Attackcoog.)
06-07-2016 08:23 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #9
RE: CUSA/Group of 5 TV dollars.
Make it 3 conferences to split up to create.

Northeast
Southeast
Southwest

Northeast:
Buffalo
UMass
Toledo
Ohio
Marshall
Stony Brook
James Madison
Delaware
Liberty
Towson
Western Kentucky

Southeast:
UAB
Troy
South Alabama
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
Middle Tennessee State
Coast Carolina
Appalachian State
Eastern Kentucky
Southern Miss.
Chattanooga
Jacksonville State


Southwest:
New Mexico State
Texas State
Lamar
Missouri State
Arkansas State
La.-Lafayette
La.-Monroe
La. Tech
West Texas A&M
Central Arkansas
McNeese State
Central Oklahoma
06-07-2016 08:45 PM
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BullsFanatic Offline
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Post: #10
RE: CUSA/Group of 5 TV dollars.
I think that we are mostly in agreement that a reorganization into travel friendly conferences makes sense with the TV contract as low as it is. C-USA should be able to split into two with both conferences getting an auto-bid (like the Big East and American), allowing the Sun Belt to survive as well. Ten team conferences make a lot of sense right now- allows for a championship game and a round-robin in basketball while dividing the pot by the fewest amount of teams. I'm guessing that the western division of C-USA would split off, as they seem the most unhappy at the moment:

Southwest
East: Southern Miss, Louisiana Tech, Rice, Louisiana-Lafayette, Arkansas State
West: North Texas, UTSA, UTEP, New Mexico State, Texas State

The remaining teams in C-USA and the Sun Belt could reorganize as follows:

Sun Belt
West: ULM, Troy, South Alabama, Georgia State, Jacksonville State
East: Appalachian State, Coastal Carolina, Georgia Southern, FIU, FAU

C-USA
North: Marshall, Old Dominion, James Madison, Eastern Kentucky, UMass (FB only)
South: Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee, Chattanooga, Charlotte, UAB

While I think a reborn Southwest Conference has legs, I'm less confident in the Sun Belt and C-USA both getting back to 10. Too many FCS moveups, which is part of the reason C-USA is in this mess. One or two is fine, but they added six teams with fewer than ten years of FBS experience in football. A lot of those programs could turn out to be good, but I think the lack of known football brands really hurt them.
(This post was last modified: 06-07-2016 09:20 PM by BullsFanatic.)
06-07-2016 09:19 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #11
RE: CUSA/Group of 5 TV dollars.
(06-07-2016 06:38 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  If you lose $500K in media income but cut expenses by a $1 million

None of these schools can cut $1 million out of their annual athletics travel budget by shuffling the decks of these conferences. Each is probably spending a total of $1 million/year or so on athletics travel/meals/lodging -- you can't cut that down to zero.

Hawai'i has the highest athletics travel costs of any G5 school (by far, I'm sure), and even their annual travel/meals/lodging budget is "only" $3.8 million, according to page 5 (and Table 3) of this: https://www.hawaii.edu/offices/bor/athle...Report.pdf
06-07-2016 09:49 PM
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Post: #12
RE: CUSA/Group of 5 TV dollars.
Just a reminder.

When CUSA 2.x signed the deal that just expired...
Fox did not own any FBS content they could distribute nationally. Slots that used to go to CUSA 2.x on the Fox family are now being filled by Big XII and Pac-12.
CBSSN only had the MWC when the last deal was signed. They had zero Eastern and Central time zone content. Today ESPN resells AAC and MAC content reportedly at a lower cost per game than CBSSN was paying CUSA 2.x per game.

That's some serious deflationary pressure before you even address the loss of Houston, UCF, SMU, Memphis, Tulane, ECU, and Tulsa as well as the messy UAB situation.

You can't disband the two conferences and start from scratch because that creates issues with NCAA units and more importantly the CFP. When the Big West dropped football and Sun Belt added football the BCS told Sun Belt "tough luck but you weren't a signatory to the BCS deal you get $0, and the Sun Belt got $0 from the BCS until the next BCS deal. CFP is much more money, that can't be risked.

What you CAN do is move teams around tell the NCAA we are still the Sun Belt and CUSA and never mind the new names (this one is SBC and that one is CUSA) we are still the old leagues with new branding and we are relying on the grace period to deal with our lineup changes. And you tell the CFP we are still the old leagues with new names.

There is precedence for this. When Texas, TAMU, Baylor and Texas Tech joined the Big 8, it was announced as "new" conference with a creation date of the date of expansion and the records were wiped clean. They insisted they were a new conference, except when dealing with the NCAA, then they were the Big 8 with a new name.
(This post was last modified: 06-07-2016 10:50 PM by arkstfan.)
06-07-2016 10:49 PM
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Post: #13
RE: CUSA/Group of 5 TV dollars.
As far as finances go...
It is widely reported that the Sun Belt deal is $1 million a year. Here is what I know to be fact. When the current deal was first signed it was $1.5 million with annual escalations to $2.5 million in 2019-20. BUT when Benson renegotiated that deal to get all unselected games on ESPN3 they may have changed the terms (don't know this part to be fact). Supposedly the numbers tossed for CUSA are supposedly net after production costs, so it could be that Benson gave up part or all of the escalator to not have to pay production. I've been told that the Sun Belt pays nothing for all or at least most ESPN3 telecast production and gets a set number of basketball games that don't require paying production. So it is possible that Sun Belt rebated some of the rights fee to get more games produced without a production payment.

But taking the lower message board number of $1 million the difference between Sun Belt and CUSA TV is +$100,000 per school in football revenue.
In CFP revenue after two years Sun Belt averages $86,000 more per year per team which should even get better as Sun Belt drops to 10 and CUSA goes back to 14.
In hoops since CUSA 3.x started play the Sun Belt and CUSA have earned 5 units each which is plus $15,000 per team for Sun Belt with the smaller lineup.

So basically Sun Belt membership is currently worth $1000 a year more than CUSA but for the leftover Memphis units which fall off in three more years.

There are zero financial reasons for a conference that stretches from Boone, NC to San Marcos, TX to overlap with a conference that goes from Norfolk, VA to El Paso, TX when there is no financial difference in the two leagues.
06-07-2016 11:13 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #14
RE: CUSA/Group of 5 TV dollars.
(06-07-2016 10:49 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Just a reminder.

When CUSA 2.x signed the deal that just expired...
Fox did not own any FBS content they could distribute nationally. Slots that used to go to CUSA 2.x on the Fox family are now being filled by Big XII and Pac-12.
CBSSN only had the MWC when the last deal was signed. They had zero Eastern and Central time zone content. Today ESPN resells AAC and MAC content reportedly at a lower cost per game than CBSSN was paying CUSA 2.x per game.

That's some serious deflationary pressure before you even address the loss of Houston, UCF, SMU, Memphis, Tulane, ECU, and Tulsa as well as the messy UAB situation.

You can't disband the two conferences and start from scratch because that creates issues with NCAA units and more importantly the CFP. When the Big West dropped football and Sun Belt added football the BCS told Sun Belt "tough luck but you weren't a signatory to the BCS deal you get $0, and the Sun Belt got $0 from the BCS until the next BCS deal. CFP is much more money, that can't be risked.

What you CAN do is move teams around tell the NCAA we are still the Sun Belt and CUSA and never mind the new names (this one is SBC and that one is CUSA) we are still the old leagues with new branding and we are relying on the grace period to deal with our lineup changes. And you tell the CFP we are still the old leagues with new names.

There is precedence for this. When Texas, TAMU, Baylor and Texas Tech joined the Big 8, it was announced as "new" conference with a creation date of the date of expansion and the records were wiped clean. They insisted they were a new conference, except when dealing with the NCAA, then they were the Big 8 with a new name.

They were part of the SWC. Could recreate a new SWC work out? From what I read, Houston, Rice and SMU still hold the rights. If Houston and SMU agree to let Rice to have the name for them to restart SWC? Maybe that conference name alone might help them be part of the CFP?
06-08-2016 12:13 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #15
RE: CUSA/Group of 5 TV dollars.
(06-07-2016 09:49 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 06:38 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  If you lose $500K in media income but cut expenses by a $1 million

None of these schools can cut $1 million out of their annual athletics travel budget by shuffling the decks of these conferences. Each is probably spending a total of $1 million/year or so on athletics travel/meals/lodging -- you can't cut that down to zero.

Hawai'i has the highest athletics travel costs of any G5 school (by far, I'm sure), and even their annual travel/meals/lodging budget is "only" $3.8 million, according to page 5 (and Table 3) of this: https://www.hawaii.edu/offices/bor/athle...Report.pdf



I don't think that's as unusual as you think. Arizonas travel budget was 4.2 million in 2008. Ohio States was 3.8 million that same year. I'm sure the G5 economize more, but distances are distances. CUSA stretches from far west Texas to the Atlantic. Traveling in a conference that far flung is going to cost at least 2-2.5 million even with the most frugal AD. Teams playing in a conference of UTEP, UTSA, N Texas, Rice, Texas St, LaTech, ULL, ArkSt, ULM, SMiss, UAB, and ASU are going to rarely step foot on an airplane. That's virtually a bus league. You might could get those travel costs down to million or less.

http://www.athleticbusiness.com/Budgetin...rther.html

This article would indicate the 4 G5 universities mentioned in Texas had combined travel costs of 11 million--that's nearly 3 million each.

The smaller conferences haven’t seen as much of an influx in television money. But the realignment has caused a ripple effect that reaches their schools, too. For example, the University of Houston was for decades a part of Southwest Conference, which was mostly made up of teams from Texas. In 1996, UH moved to Conference USA. But the recent round of realignment moved it to the American Athletic Conference, where it competes against teams in Philadelphia, Storrs, Conn., and Tampa, Fla.

Meanwhile, Conference USA, which currently includes UTSA, UTEP and UNT, has teams from 10 states. And that means the conference’s Texas teams must regularly fly to play Marshall University in West Virginia and Florida International University in Miami, among other locations.

That distance combined with, until recently, high energy prices has pushed up travel costs for those four universities up by more than 50 percent in the last seven years, to a combined $11 million in 2015, according to NCAA reports.


https://www.texastribune.org/2016/03/18/...s-support/
(This post was last modified: 06-08-2016 02:05 AM by Attackcoog.)
06-08-2016 01:36 AM
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HawaiiMongoose Offline
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Post: #16
RE: CUSA/Group of 5 TV dollars.
A lot of P5 schools use charter flights to transport their football teams to road games. Hawaii flies commercial. So it wouldn't surprise me if quite a few P5 schools have larger travel budgets, despite the fact that the Warriors travel many, many more miles.

But for the G5, I'd expect Hawaii's travel expense to be close to if not at the top, as Wedge surmises.
(This post was last modified: 06-08-2016 01:41 AM by HawaiiMongoose.)
06-08-2016 01:39 AM
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Post: #17
RE: CUSA/Group of 5 TV dollars.
(06-08-2016 01:39 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  A lot of P5 schools use charter flights to transport their football teams to road games. Hawaii flies commercial. So it wouldn't surprise me if quite a few P5 schools have larger travel budgets, despite the fact that the Warriors travel many, many more miles.

But for the G5, I'd expect Hawaii's travel expense to be close to if not at the top, as Wedge surmises.

I just posted an article that says Houston, UNT, UTSA and UTEP had combined travel costs of 11 million in 2015 (an average travel cost of about 2.8 million each). And yes, I would think Hawaii would be near the top of G5 travel budgets. What I'm saying is G5s playing in half-continent conferences don't have travel budgets of 1 million. They are much higher than that. The MAC is the only G5 that might have it down that low. The vast majority of those 2.8 million in costs for North Texas or Houston is from the east coast trips--not the bus trips to San Antonio or Louisiana.
(This post was last modified: 06-08-2016 02:18 AM by Attackcoog.)
06-08-2016 01:50 AM
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Post: #18
RE: CUSA/Group of 5 TV dollars.
I found this interesting:

"Documents indicate the league will do some belt-tightening to deal with tougher economic times. Salaries have been frozen for all employees in its Irving, Texas, office.

The league’s budget will fall by about $120,000 to $4.83 million."

So the league office negotiates a TV deal that sees revenue plummet by 75% and yet the league's office only takes a 2.5% hit? And the league office is spending two to three times as much money as each school is getting from the league?

The league office is getting 20% of all revenues generated by the conference! The SEC has a very, very generous league office setup, and it gets about 7% of SEC revenue.

Seems like the cart is driving the horse. 07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 06-08-2016 07:39 AM by quo vadis.)
06-08-2016 07:37 AM
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Post: #19
RE: CUSA/Group of 5 TV dollars.
(06-08-2016 12:13 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 10:49 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Just a reminder.

When CUSA 2.x signed the deal that just expired...
Fox did not own any FBS content they could distribute nationally. Slots that used to go to CUSA 2.x on the Fox family are now being filled by Big XII and Pac-12.
CBSSN only had the MWC when the last deal was signed. They had zero Eastern and Central time zone content. Today ESPN resells AAC and MAC content reportedly at a lower cost per game than CBSSN was paying CUSA 2.x per game.

That's some serious deflationary pressure before you even address the loss of Houston, UCF, SMU, Memphis, Tulane, ECU, and Tulsa as well as the messy UAB situation.

You can't disband the two conferences and start from scratch because that creates issues with NCAA units and more importantly the CFP. When the Big West dropped football and Sun Belt added football the BCS told Sun Belt "tough luck but you weren't a signatory to the BCS deal you get $0, and the Sun Belt got $0 from the BCS until the next BCS deal. CFP is much more money, that can't be risked.

What you CAN do is move teams around tell the NCAA we are still the Sun Belt and CUSA and never mind the new names (this one is SBC and that one is CUSA) we are still the old leagues with new branding and we are relying on the grace period to deal with our lineup changes. And you tell the CFP we are still the old leagues with new names.

There is precedence for this. When Texas, TAMU, Baylor and Texas Tech joined the Big 8, it was announced as "new" conference with a creation date of the date of expansion and the records were wiped clean. They insisted they were a new conference, except when dealing with the NCAA, then they were the Big 8 with a new name.

They were part of the SWC. Could recreate a new SWC work out? From what I read, Houston, Rice and SMU still hold the rights. If Houston and SMU agree to let Rice to have the name for them to restart SWC? Maybe that conference name alone might help them be part of the CFP?

I'm not an expert on intellectual property law but I cannot believe that ANYONE owns the right to the name Southwest Conference because trademark law provides that if you aren't using the name in commerce the name lapses and becomes public domain (or at least until someone else wants to use it, registers it and actually uses it presuming it hasn't become a generic term by then).

That said, why would anyone WANT to use the name for a new conference, all you are doing is inviting comparison to a league that sent two teams to the SEC (eventually) and has four in the Big XII.

Better to create a new identity and brand.
06-08-2016 08:08 AM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #20
RE: CUSA/Group of 5 TV dollars.
(06-08-2016 07:37 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I found this interesting:

"Documents indicate the league will do some belt-tightening to deal with tougher economic times. Salaries have been frozen for all employees in its Irving, Texas, office.

The league’s budget will fall by about $120,000 to $4.83 million."

So the league office negotiates a TV deal that sees revenue plummet by 75% and yet the league's office only takes a 2.5% hit? And the league office is spending two to three times as much money as each school is getting from the league?

The league office is getting 20% of all revenues generated by the conference! The SEC has a very, very generous league office setup, and it gets about 7% of SEC revenue.

Seems like the cart is driving the horse. 07-coffee3

Keep in mind though that the SEC and CUSA relatively sponsor roughly the same amount of sports. 7% of 300 million+ the SEC gets goes a long ways to pay for tournaments, officials, admin and productions. CUSA can't take that big of a hit and still keep the tournaments, officials and admin paid.
06-08-2016 08:09 AM
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