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So speaking of college athletes and rape...
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #41
RE: So speaking of college athletes and rape...
Chappy,

Nope. You're a rape apologist. You want rapists to go free. How dare you!
06-08-2016 08:14 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #42
RE: So speaking of college athletes and rape...
Terry,

You seem to be describing a completely different scenario, where a crazed, homeless man hides in some bushes, waiting for an unsuspecting female to walk buy, so that he can jump out, tackle the woman and rape her.

Yeah, that would be a pretty obvious case.

Of course, nothing of the sort happened in this scenario.
06-08-2016 08:16 AM
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Chappy Offline
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Post: #43
RE: So speaking of college athletes and rape...
(06-08-2016 08:14 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Chappy,

Nope. You're a rape apologist. You want rapists to go free. How dare you!

Damn, my daughters are going to be disappointed in me.
06-08-2016 08:22 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #44
RE: So speaking of college athletes and rape...
And ... I'll just leave this here: http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/06/brock-tu...pport.html

Everyone is allowed to have an opinion, on the matter. Right or wrong.


*sigh* I know that by posting this, people will skip past what I'm writing right here and read what they want to read -- then accuse me of apologizing for rape. So, carry on.
06-08-2016 08:39 AM
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TerryD Online
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Post: #45
RE: So speaking of college athletes and rape...
(06-08-2016 08:16 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Terry,

You seem to be describing a completely different scenario, where a crazed, homeless man hides in some bushes, waiting for an unsuspecting female to walk buy, so that he can jump out, tackle the woman and rape her.

Yeah, that would be a pretty obvious case.

Of course, nothing of the sort happened in this scenario.


No, this guy and the crazed homeless rapist are the same.

Rape is rape is rape. There is no difference between the homeless attacker and this Stanford guy. Both raped someone, period.

No matter what, no matter what. Rape is rape and is evil.

There is never a single, solitary valid "excuse" or mitigating/extenuating circumstance for the intentional infliction of sexual violence on another human being.

And yes, unconsensual sex where the victim is intoxicated and helpless is an act of violence against the victim. Sorry.
(This post was last modified: 06-08-2016 10:11 AM by TerryD.)
06-08-2016 10:03 AM
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TerryD Online
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Post: #46
RE: So speaking of college athletes and rape...
Being drunk is not an excuse for being a rapist.

The victim being drunk is not an excuse for the rapist.

Both being drunk does not excuse unconsented sex.

All drunks are not rapists. Not all rapists are drunk.

Rapists claiming that they were merely drunk rapists are just simply rapists seeking to excuse their sexual violence against a helpless victim.

No sale. There are absolutely no mitigating circumstances for being a rapist.
(This post was last modified: 06-08-2016 10:23 AM by TerryD.)
06-08-2016 10:07 AM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #47
RE: So speaking of college athletes and rape...
(06-08-2016 10:07 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Being drunk is not an excuse for being a rapist.

The victim being drunk is not an excuse for the rapist.

Both being drunk does not excuse unconsented sex.

All drunks are not rapists. Not all rapists are drunk.

Rapists claiming that they were merely drunk rapists are just simply rapists seeking to excuse their sexual violence against a helpless victim.

No sale. There are absolutely no mitigating circumstances for being a rapist.

That is not true Terry. Being drunk is not an affirmative defense but a Judge can certainly look at that in sentencing as the Judge and the Probation people did in this case. There is a difference between premeditated serial type rapists and what happened in this case.
06-08-2016 10:35 AM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #48
RE: So speaking of college athletes and rape...
(06-07-2016 08:34 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Corbett,

So yes, you did accuse me of being a rapist. And you're not going to apologize for that comment. That's fine. It's a very sensitive, emotional issue. I get that.


Oh yeah, show me where I did ? I will be waiting. Because that never happened.... Then once you see you know not what you speak, you can quietly exit.

An no, I won't apologize for the comment I actually made, because there is nothing wrong about it.
(This post was last modified: 06-08-2016 10:42 AM by adcorbett.)
06-08-2016 10:41 AM
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TerryD Online
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Post: #49
RE: So speaking of college athletes and rape...
(06-08-2016 10:35 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(06-08-2016 10:07 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Being drunk is not an excuse for being a rapist.

The victim being drunk is not an excuse for the rapist.

Both being drunk does not excuse unconsented sex.

All drunks are not rapists. Not all rapists are drunk.

Rapists claiming that they were merely drunk rapists are just simply rapists seeking to excuse their sexual violence against a helpless victim.

No sale. There are absolutely no mitigating circumstances for being a rapist.

That is not true Terry. Being drunk is not an affirmative defense but a Judge can certainly look at that in sentencing as the Judge and the Probation people did in this case. There is a difference between premeditated serial type rapists and what happened in this case.

We simply disagree. That is fine.

That guy is lucky I am not his sentencing Judge. I would draw no distinction between rapists and give him ten years in prison.

Ask the victim if it makes a difference to her.
(This post was last modified: 06-08-2016 10:46 AM by TerryD.)
06-08-2016 10:45 AM
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Post: #50
RE: So speaking of college athletes and rape...
(06-08-2016 07:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  OK, but if not, then exactly what are those who keep mentioning her being intoxicated saying?

Seems like they are trying to hold her in some way shape or form and/or to some degree responsible for getting raped.

And she is in no way shape or form or to any degree responsible for that. Not even the tiniest smidge. 07-coffee3

That was exactly the point I made, because it is exactly what they are saying. There is no way around that.

(06-08-2016 08:12 AM)Chappy Wrote:  I can only speak for myself (and I brought up that they were BOTH drunk, not just the victim, but the assailant as well), but this is the point I'm trying to make:

1. All of the fault in this case lies on the young man who raped the young woman.

2. There is a "getting wasted" culture on campus that increases the number of these crimes.

3. Being drunk DOES NOT EXCUSE the assailant's actions, so see point 1 again.

4. Reducing the number of kids getting drunk will decrease crime on campus.

5. In 1 out of every 3 sexual assault cases, the perpetrator was drunk.

6. Being drunk does not excuse their behavior, so see point 1 again.

7. Fewer drunks = fewer sexual assaults.

Just an FYI, this I can agree with, but is slightly different than specifically pointing that if the victim were not drunk (while also pointing the accused rapists own fault in that), it would not have happened, which makes it sound like she had a part in it, and thus was partially to blame.
06-08-2016 10:51 AM
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Post: #51
RE: So speaking of college athletes and rape...
(06-08-2016 07:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  OK, but if not, then exactly what are those who keep mentioning her being intoxicated saying?

Seems like they are trying to hold her in some way shape or form and/or to some degree responsible for getting raped.

And she is in no way shape or form or to any degree responsible for that. Not even the tiniest smidge. 07-coffee3

I disagree, at least with what's in bold. If you leave yourself open, no sexual pun intended, bad things can happen. Short of a date rape drug, she made the irresponsible decision to get drunk to the point of being incapacitated and while that's not a green light for anyone to do something bad to her, generally speaking seedy people hang around places where people get drunk to such a degree and thus she bears some responsibility because he likely wouldn't have gotten the cookie had she been sober.

She shouldn't have been raped but she's not clear of any irresponsibility either. But I certainly see where you guys are coming from.
06-08-2016 12:14 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #52
RE: So speaking of college athletes and rape...
(06-08-2016 10:51 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(06-08-2016 07:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  OK, but if not, then exactly what are those who keep mentioning her being intoxicated saying?

Seems like they are trying to hold her in some way shape or form and/or to some degree responsible for getting raped.

And she is in no way shape or form or to any degree responsible for that. Not even the tiniest smidge. 07-coffee3

That was exactly the point I made, because it is exactly what they are saying. There is no way around that.

(06-08-2016 08:12 AM)Chappy Wrote:  I can only speak for myself (and I brought up that they were BOTH drunk, not just the victim, but the assailant as well), but this is the point I'm trying to make:

1. All of the fault in this case lies on the young man who raped the young woman.

2. There is a "getting wasted" culture on campus that increases the number of these crimes.

3. Being drunk DOES NOT EXCUSE the assailant's actions, so see point 1 again.

4. Reducing the number of kids getting drunk will decrease crime on campus.

5. In 1 out of every 3 sexual assault cases, the perpetrator was drunk.

6. Being drunk does not excuse their behavior, so see point 1 again.

7. Fewer drunks = fewer sexual assaults.

Just an FYI, this I can agree with, but is slightly different than specifically pointing that if the victim were not drunk (while also pointing the accused rapists own fault in that), it would not have happened, which makes it sound like she had a part in it, and thus was partially to blame.

I just don't understand how you draw that conclusion or make that leap.
06-08-2016 12:19 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #53
RE: So speaking of college athletes and rape...
(06-08-2016 10:45 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(06-08-2016 10:35 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(06-08-2016 10:07 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Being drunk is not an excuse for being a rapist.

The victim being drunk is not an excuse for the rapist.

Both being drunk does not excuse unconsented sex.

All drunks are not rapists. Not all rapists are drunk.

Rapists claiming that they were merely drunk rapists are just simply rapists seeking to excuse their sexual violence against a helpless victim.

No sale. There are absolutely no mitigating circumstances for being a rapist.

That is not true Terry. Being drunk is not an affirmative defense but a Judge can certainly look at that in sentencing as the Judge and the Probation people did in this case. There is a difference between premeditated serial type rapists and what happened in this case.

We simply disagree. That is fine.

That guy is lucky I am not his sentencing Judge. I would draw no distinction between rapists and give him ten years in prison.

Ask the victim if it makes a difference to her.

Yep that is fine.
06-08-2016 12:21 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #54
RE: So speaking of college athletes and rape...
Corbett,

In post #11 you called me a rapist, and in post #26 you confirmed that. Saying "nuh uh" is middle school crap. You should apologize, but I don't expect you to.


Terry,

You're taking an emotional stance without being privy to any details. Your stance is that of a father of a rape victim. Perhaps you were, I hope not. If so, I'm sorry to hear it.

You can thump your chest all you like about how you'd sentence a drunk frat night gone wrong with no previous criminal charges the same as a violent, premeditated rape by a serial rapist. But being mule-headed as that just means you're not fit to be a judge.


SuperBFly,

Indeed, it's a complete leap that has no logical explaining. I think it's driven from fear, more than anything. Like "if we give them even a millimeter of wiggle room, they'll slither away!"

Fact is, she herself -- the rape victim -- declared in her own statement that she made a mistake. And she wanted to warn others against making the same mistake.

So by taking that stance, they're actually accusing the rape victim of being a rape apologist/blame shifter. That should destroy their argument, but I'm sure they'll have an answer.
(This post was last modified: 06-08-2016 12:27 PM by MplsBison.)
06-08-2016 12:24 PM
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Post: #55
RE: So speaking of college athletes and rape...
(06-07-2016 11:21 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  You come off like a psychopath, or an accused rapist who is currently awaiting trial.

(06-07-2016 06:27 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 05:22 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Then you accept that what you said about me is incorrect. You're allowed to do that, but I am allowed to point out that it's wrong.

You like to say people misunderstood you, with whatever it is you said, despite the number of people who point out they reached the same conclusion with what you said. Anyway since I didn't say anything "about you;" it's not incorrect. I said "you sound like..." It wasn't incorrect.

(06-08-2016 12:24 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Corbett,

In post #11 you called me a rapist, and in post #26 you confirmed that. Saying "nuh uh" is middle school crap. You should apologize, but I don't expect you to.


The posts are above. Tell me where I called you that. The only thing I will "apologize" for is that you like to say people don't comprehend what you post, when clearly, you have the comprehension issues.
06-08-2016 12:38 PM
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Post: #56
RE: So speaking of college athletes and rape...
(06-08-2016 12:19 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(06-08-2016 10:51 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(06-08-2016 07:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  OK, but if not, then exactly what are those who keep mentioning her being intoxicated saying?

Seems like they are trying to hold her in some way shape or form and/or to some degree responsible for getting raped.

And she is in no way shape or form or to any degree responsible for that. Not even the tiniest smidge. 07-coffee3

That was exactly the point I made, because it is exactly what they are saying. There is no way around that.

(06-08-2016 08:12 AM)Chappy Wrote:  I can only speak for myself (and I brought up that they were BOTH drunk, not just the victim, but the assailant as well), but this is the point I'm trying to make:

1. All of the fault in this case lies on the young man who raped the young woman.

2. There is a "getting wasted" culture on campus that increases the number of these crimes.

3. Being drunk DOES NOT EXCUSE the assailant's actions, so see point 1 again.

4. Reducing the number of kids getting drunk will decrease crime on campus.

5. In 1 out of every 3 sexual assault cases, the perpetrator was drunk.

6. Being drunk does not excuse their behavior, so see point 1 again.

7. Fewer drunks = fewer sexual assaults.

Just an FYI, this I can agree with, but is slightly different than specifically pointing that if the victim were not drunk (while also pointing the accused rapists own fault in that), it would not have happened, which makes it sound like she had a part in it, and thus was partially to blame.

I just don't understand how you draw that conclusion or make that leap.

I don't understand at all how you can NOT draw that conclusion. When you say that person made a mistake that contributed to the result, you are shifting part of the blame. There is no other conclusion to draw. And no bison, it is not fear. It is common sense, and it is either or. Either you say she made a mistake and contributed to it, which means she shares, in part, blame for the result. Or the other party is 100% responsible, and her being drunk, which is actually legal depending on your age, was NOT change who's to blame (and thus being drunk was not a "mistake" that lead to it).
06-08-2016 12:41 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #57
RE: So speaking of college athletes and rape...
(06-08-2016 12:41 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(06-08-2016 12:19 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(06-08-2016 10:51 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(06-08-2016 07:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  OK, but if not, then exactly what are those who keep mentioning her being intoxicated saying?

Seems like they are trying to hold her in some way shape or form and/or to some degree responsible for getting raped.

And she is in no way shape or form or to any degree responsible for that. Not even the tiniest smidge. 07-coffee3

That was exactly the point I made, because it is exactly what they are saying. There is no way around that.

(06-08-2016 08:12 AM)Chappy Wrote:  I can only speak for myself (and I brought up that they were BOTH drunk, not just the victim, but the assailant as well), but this is the point I'm trying to make:

1. All of the fault in this case lies on the young man who raped the young woman.

2. There is a "getting wasted" culture on campus that increases the number of these crimes.

3. Being drunk DOES NOT EXCUSE the assailant's actions, so see point 1 again.

4. Reducing the number of kids getting drunk will decrease crime on campus.

5. In 1 out of every 3 sexual assault cases, the perpetrator was drunk.

6. Being drunk does not excuse their behavior, so see point 1 again.

7. Fewer drunks = fewer sexual assaults.

Just an FYI, this I can agree with, but is slightly different than specifically pointing that if the victim were not drunk (while also pointing the accused rapists own fault in that), it would not have happened, which makes it sound like she had a part in it, and thus was partially to blame.

I just don't understand how you draw that conclusion or make that leap.

I don't understand at all how you can NOT draw that conclusion. When you say that person made a mistake that contributed to the result, you are shifting part of the blame. There is no other conclusion to draw. And no bison, it is not fear. It is common sense, and it is either or. Either you say she made a mistake and contributed to it, which means she shares, in part, blame for the result. Or the other party is 100% responsible, and her being drunk, which is actually legal depending on your age, was NOT change who's to blame (and thus being drunk was not a "mistake" that lead to it).

That isn't true. Nobody has partially blamed the girl. Pointing out that getting wasted, losing complete control of your ability to function, is a bad choice is not blaming the victim in any manner whatsoever.
06-08-2016 12:56 PM
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TerryD Online
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Post: #58
RE: So speaking of college athletes and rape...
(06-08-2016 12:24 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Corbett,

In post #11 you called me a rapist, and in post #26 you confirmed that. Saying "nuh uh" is middle school crap. You should apologize, but I don't expect you to.


Terry,

You're taking an emotional stance without being privy to any details. Your stance is that of a father of a rape victim. Perhaps you were, I hope not. If so, I'm sorry to hear it.

You can thump your chest all you like about how you'd sentence a drunk frat night gone wrong with no previous criminal charges the same as a violent, premeditated rape by a serial rapist. But being mule-headed as that just means you're not fit to be a judge.


SuperBFly,

Indeed, it's a complete leap that has no logical explaining. I think it's driven from fear, more than anything. Like "if we give them even a millimeter of wiggle room, they'll slither away!"

Fact is, she herself -- the rape victim -- declared in her own statement that she made a mistake. And she wanted to warn others against making the same mistake.

So by taking that stance, they're actually accusing the rape victim of being a rape apologist/blame shifter. That should destroy their argument, but I'm sure they'll have an answer.


Lol, I have a daughter but she was never a rape victim. So, that is a blind alley for you.

I have been a lawyer for almost thirty years but never had the slightest desire to be a judge.

That Judge was an ass for only sentencing that criminal to six months in jail. That is his problem, not mine.

You seem to want to give "drunk frat boys" a pass. I wonder why. Drunk frat boys who rape women are just....rapists, the same as the "serial rapist".

I am not emotional about this at all. I am the most unemotional person you would ever meet. Pretty laid back, actually. Type "B" and all.

I just know that "negligence" is not applicable to "intentional acts", i.e. rape (unless you think that somehow it possible to rape someone by a combination of accidents or lack of attention).

A girl being drunk, flirty, high or dressing in a certain manner = things that have nothing to do with rapists being rapists and raping someone.

When a girl is incapacitated, it is always rape to have sex with her when she is unable to consent, period.

I don't believe for a second that any of the above are mitigating circumstances when a guy sexually assaults a woman.
(This post was last modified: 06-08-2016 01:09 PM by TerryD.)
06-08-2016 01:06 PM
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Post: #59
RE: So speaking of college athletes and rape...
He is from Oakwood, Ohio, a very wealthy suburb of Dayton. Shows that money can buy almost anything...
06-08-2016 01:08 PM
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Post: #60
RE: So speaking of college athletes and rape...
Didn't I just see this exact argument play out last year on the fictional TV show switched at birth?

I would say the show was prophetic, but its probably more a commentary on how often this actually happens on college campuses.
06-08-2016 01:18 PM
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