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Anybody notice this from Calkins?
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macgar32 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Anybody notice this from Calkins?
(05-31-2016 02:08 PM)memphistiger89 Wrote:  
(05-31-2016 10:52 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  
(05-31-2016 10:43 AM)TallTiger Wrote:  After what total control caused with Cal, we don't need to go there.

You mean multiple elite 8 trips and a title game? Yeah, who wants that again.

I think TallTiger was referring to the vacated Final Four, probation, the school being dragged through the mud, etc.

Yeah...Josh could have done the same and so could Tubby...

The coaches are still in control of all of the things you mentioned.
05-31-2016 03:47 PM
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Trapper John Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Anybody notice this from Calkins?
(05-31-2016 03:41 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  
(05-31-2016 02:48 PM)Trapper John Wrote:  
(05-31-2016 10:52 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  
(05-31-2016 10:43 AM)TallTiger Wrote:  After what total control caused with Cal, we don't need to go there.

You mean multiple elite 8 trips and a title game? Yeah, who wants that again.

Legit question - would you trade any chance at football success for another run like we had under Coach Cal?

How much success?

I guess defining success would be building positive momentum off of individual positive steps for the program. Coach Stobart seemed to follow every success with a failure, Coach Scherer couldn't quite turn the corner in spite of having one of the bigger victories in the program's history, Coach West had a small stretch of success built on D Will and Danny and Mo, but his program was also never fully supported - in part because of Coach Cal's stranglehold on the athletic dept. Right now we have had a series of positive steps with rankings, bowl appearances, and a first round draft pick. Turning that into further (and improved) bowl appearances, further top 25 rankings, and closing in on a conference title would qualify as success from where we are now.
05-31-2016 04:11 PM
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MemphisCanes Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Anybody notice this from Calkins?
(05-31-2016 04:11 PM)Trapper John Wrote:  
(05-31-2016 03:41 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  
(05-31-2016 02:48 PM)Trapper John Wrote:  
(05-31-2016 10:52 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  
(05-31-2016 10:43 AM)TallTiger Wrote:  After what total control caused with Cal, we don't need to go there.

You mean multiple elite 8 trips and a title game? Yeah, who wants that again.

Legit question - would you trade any chance at football success for another run like we had under Coach Cal?

How much success?

I guess defining success would be building positive momentum off of individual positive steps for the program. Coach Stobart seemed to follow every success with a failure, Coach Scherer couldn't quite turn the corner in spite of having one of the bigger victories in the program's history, Coach West had a small stretch of success built on D Will and Danny and Mo, but his program was also never fully supported - in part because of Coach Cal's stranglehold on the athletic dept. Right now we have had a series of positive steps with rankings, bowl appearances, and a first round draft pick. Turning that into further (and improved) bowl appearances, further top 25 rankings, and closing in on a conference title would qualify as success from where we are now.

If I had to choose between another run like we had from 2005-2010 vs. a potential shot at the AAC title game in football every once in a while, I'd choose the former because it's a sure thing. I don't think they are mutually exclusive though.
05-31-2016 04:14 PM
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Trapper John Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Anybody notice this from Calkins?
(05-31-2016 04:14 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  
(05-31-2016 04:11 PM)Trapper John Wrote:  
(05-31-2016 03:41 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  
(05-31-2016 02:48 PM)Trapper John Wrote:  
(05-31-2016 10:52 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  You mean multiple elite 8 trips and a title game? Yeah, who wants that again.

Legit question - would you trade any chance at football success for another run like we had under Coach Cal?

How much success?

I guess defining success would be building positive momentum off of individual positive steps for the program. Coach Stobart seemed to follow every success with a failure, Coach Scherer couldn't quite turn the corner in spite of having one of the bigger victories in the program's history, Coach West had a small stretch of success built on D Will and Danny and Mo, but his program was also never fully supported - in part because of Coach Cal's stranglehold on the athletic dept. Right now we have had a series of positive steps with rankings, bowl appearances, and a first round draft pick. Turning that into further (and improved) bowl appearances, further top 25 rankings, and closing in on a conference title would qualify as success from where we are now.

If I had to choose between another run like we had from 2005-2010 vs. a potential shot at the AAC title game in football every once in a while, I'd choose the former because it's a sure thing. I don't think they are mutually exclusive though.

I agree that they don't have to be mutually exclusive, although giving free reign to one coach tends to make it harder (the op's quote about Buzz).

The 2005-2010 run was crazy fun, and I wouldn't trade the memories for much anything sports related - but I can't help feeling that the way that run ended actually reinforced the idea of us as a second tier school, while a sustained run as a conference title contender and ranked team in football may help establish us as power conference worthy team - especially if the program continues to grow under multiple head coaches.
05-31-2016 04:45 PM
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TIGERCITY Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Anybody notice this from Calkins?
https://painttouches.com/2014/05/14/buzz...t-details/

Quote:...Of that $2.3 million, the base salary will be $500,00, plus supplemental compensation of 1.8 million for “services in media relations and Hokie Club appearances.” By comparison, at Marquette, his base salary was $1.8 million, with $1 million in other compensation. Additionally, his compensation will increases by $100,000 every year.

But that was already filtered. What wasn’t known and what is much more interesting are the terms of his buyout, should he be fired without cause. Last year, the media raked UCLA and Steve Alford over the coals for his buyout ($10.3 million in the first three years, and $5.2 million in the next two). Buzz’s makes that look paltry.
If he is fired without “good cause,” Virginia Tech will still pay him his full salary until the expiration of his term in 2021. I repeat, unless Buzz leaves for a different job, he will be getting a raise from VT every year until 2021. Here is a rough sketch of what those sums look like:

VT will pay however much is left on the contract from date of notice
18.2 million in first year
15.9 million in second year
13.5 million in third year
11 million in fourth year
8.4 million in fifth year
5.7 million in sixth year

But wait, there’s more. There is no language in his contract saying these payments will stop should he find another job. So take this scenario: Buzz fails to gain traction in the ACC and is fired in 2017, before the automatic extensions kick in, after three bottom-dwelling seasons. He will still get the $2.6 million that he would have made the following year, as is usual. But he remains a hot commodity and is hired by TCU for $900,000 a year in 2018. That means he will get a full salary from both institutions that year, the next and the one after as well, something rather unheard of. In other words, Buzz isn’t getting fired without cause. No chance whatsoever.

Buyouts cut both ways though. Usually when payouts for a fired coach are that high, the buyout to go coach somewhere else is ridiculously high. Take another former Marquette coach as an example. Tom Crean signed a lucrative contract extension in 2012 that severely altered the buyout terms. LateNightHoops reported on it last year, and we have verified it by obtaining a copy of Crean’s old and new contracts at Indiana. If Crean is fired before July 1st 2015, he would be owed $12 million. However, if he leaves for another job before July 1t 2015, he would owe IU $8 million.

Buzz’ buyout is nowhere near as high. Here are the terms:

$7 million in first year
$3.5 million in second year
$1.5 million in third year
$900k in fourth year
$500k in fifth year
$250k any year after

So if he kills it at VT and Oklahoma State or Texas comes calling after march 24th 2014, the buyout is only $3.5 million. That’s still high, but nowhere near as high as Alford of Crean, particularly in comparison to what he would be owed. Long story short, Buzz has all the power in this deal.

And then some.

Much like at Marquette, Buzz will have a rolling contract that automatically grants him a year extension should he make it to June 30, 2017. That’s a long time for a guy as restless as Williams is, but automatic extensions are a thing of beauty in the volatile environment of college athletics.

Here are some other random tidbits of interest:

-VT will pay for his initiation fees and membership to the Blacksburg Country Club, the obvious place to find a butcher, baker or candlestick maker.

-Bonuses

50k for winning the ACC “or conference with which the University is affiliated”
25k for winning conference coach of the year
25k for winning national coach of the year
Tournament bonuses (only one may apply)
25k for making NCAA Tournament
50k for making Round of 32
75k for making Sweet 16
100k for making Final Four
150k for winning the championship
50k for APR score 960 or higher
15k or team GPA of 2.6
20k for GPA of 2.75
25k for GPA of 3.0
-12 tickets to home games, 24 tickets to ACC Tourney games, 24 NCAA Tourney tickets
-12 tickets to home football games
-Budget of 725k to be split among 3 assistants. I’ve yet to confirm what Isaac Chew made at Marquette, but assume he took quite a haircut to follow Buzz to VT.
-Use of two new vehicles to be replaced every two years
-Two seats on the team plane for family members for road games or Tournament games
05-31-2016 04:54 PM
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TallTiger Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Anybody notice this from Calkins?
In addition to what others have mentioned, we couldn't invest any $$ into the football program when we should have. Also, Cal told RC not to release the Letter of Inquiry from the NCAA...so we didn't. Cal was running the program back then. No coach should have that much control.
05-31-2016 05:00 PM
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Post: #27
RE: Anybody notice this from Calkins?
(05-31-2016 10:52 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  
(05-31-2016 10:43 AM)TallTiger Wrote:  After what total control caused with Cal, we don't need to go there.

You mean multiple elite 8 trips and a title game? Yeah, who wants that again.

more like the vacated season, and NCAA probation...the NCAA won't be so forgiving a third time around...
05-31-2016 05:03 PM
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EarthBoundMisfit Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Anybody notice this from Calkins?
(05-31-2016 10:52 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  
(05-31-2016 10:43 AM)TallTiger Wrote:  After what total control caused with Cal, we don't need to go there.

You mean multiple elite 8 trips and a title game? Yeah, who wants that again.

at the expense of football....no thanks
05-31-2016 05:27 PM
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EarthBoundMisfit Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Anybody notice this from Calkins?
(05-31-2016 03:47 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  
(05-31-2016 02:08 PM)memphistiger89 Wrote:  
(05-31-2016 10:52 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  
(05-31-2016 10:43 AM)TallTiger Wrote:  After what total control caused with Cal, we don't need to go there.

You mean multiple elite 8 trips and a title game? Yeah, who wants that again.

I think TallTiger was referring to the vacated Final Four, probation, the school being dragged through the mud, etc.

Yeah...Josh could have done the same and so could Tubby...

The coaches are still in control of all of the things you mentioned.

Not totally. Josh was forced to schedule Ole Prius. I dunno if Tubby cares about that or not....but Josh didn't want to play Arkansas, Ole Prius, or Tennessee.
05-31-2016 05:32 PM
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Latilleon Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Anybody notice this from Calkins?
(05-31-2016 10:31 AM)3601 Wrote:  I wonder exactly what he meant by the bolded part?

http://www.commercialappeal.com/columnis...11061.html

Second choice to whom?

1. Norvell — Memphis couldn’t come to an agreement with Barry Odom, who wound up at his alma mater, Missouri.

2. Smith — Memphis called Buzz Williams, but wasn’t willing to give him the contract or the complete control he has at Virginia Tech.

3. Fizdale — The Grizzlies wanted Frank Vogel, who preferred the situation in Orlando.

Comment: No need to pine over these three, although Vogel would have been a reassuring replacement for Joerger, and Williams would have been a sensational hire.

If Bowen wants to schedule UTK or Mississippi by gosh, no coach who works for him is going to overrule him. If he doesn't want Rick Ross at a glorified pep rally, no coach is going to overrule him.
05-31-2016 05:38 PM
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fsquid Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Anybody notice this from Calkins?
(05-31-2016 05:03 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  
(05-31-2016 10:52 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  
(05-31-2016 10:43 AM)TallTiger Wrote:  After what total control caused with Cal, we don't need to go there.

You mean multiple elite 8 trips and a title game? Yeah, who wants that again.

more like the vacated season, and NCAA probation...the NCAA won't be so forgiving a third time around...

Ooo they may take scholarships
05-31-2016 08:51 PM
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NigelTufnel Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Anybody notice this from Calkins?
(05-31-2016 04:54 PM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  https://painttouches.com/2014/05/14/buzz...t-details/

Quote:...Of that $2.3 million, the base salary will be $500,00, plus supplemental compensation of 1.8 million for “services in media relations and Hokie Club appearances.” By comparison, at Marquette, his base salary was $1.8 million, with $1 million in other compensation. Additionally, his compensation will increases by $100,000 every year.

But that was already filtered. What wasn’t known and what is much more interesting are the terms of his buyout, should he be fired without cause. Last year, the media raked UCLA and Steve Alford over the coals for his buyout ($10.3 million in the first three years, and $5.2 million in the next two). Buzz’s makes that look paltry.
If he is fired without “good cause,” Virginia Tech will still pay him his full salary until the expiration of his term in 2021. I repeat, unless Buzz leaves for a different job, he will be getting a raise from VT every year until 2021. Here is a rough sketch of what those sums look like:

VT will pay however much is left on the contract from date of notice
18.2 million in first year
15.9 million in second year
13.5 million in third year
11 million in fourth year
8.4 million in fifth year
5.7 million in sixth year

But wait, there’s more. There is no language in his contract saying these payments will stop should he find another job. So take this scenario: Buzz fails to gain traction in the ACC and is fired in 2017, before the automatic extensions kick in, after three bottom-dwelling seasons. He will still get the $2.6 million that he would have made the following year, as is usual. But he remains a hot commodity and is hired by TCU for $900,000 a year in 2018. That means he will get a full salary from both institutions that year, the next and the one after as well, something rather unheard of. In other words, Buzz isn’t getting fired without cause. No chance whatsoever.

Buyouts cut both ways though. Usually when payouts for a fired coach are that high, the buyout to go coach somewhere else is ridiculously high. Take another former Marquette coach as an example. Tom Crean signed a lucrative contract extension in 2012 that severely altered the buyout terms. LateNightHoops reported on it last year, and we have verified it by obtaining a copy of Crean’s old and new contracts at Indiana. If Crean is fired before July 1st 2015, he would be owed $12 million. However, if he leaves for another job before July 1t 2015, he would owe IU $8 million.

Buzz’ buyout is nowhere near as high. Here are the terms:

$7 million in first year
$3.5 million in second year
$1.5 million in third year
$900k in fourth year
$500k in fifth year
$250k any year after

So if he kills it at VT and Oklahoma State or Texas comes calling after march 24th 2014, the buyout is only $3.5 million. That’s still high, but nowhere near as high as Alford of Crean, particularly in comparison to what he would be owed. Long story short, Buzz has all the power in this deal.

And then some.

Much like at Marquette, Buzz will have a rolling contract that automatically grants him a year extension should he make it to June 30, 2017. That’s a long time for a guy as restless as Williams is, but automatic extensions are a thing of beauty in the volatile environment of college athletics.

Here are some other random tidbits of interest:

-VT will pay for his initiation fees and membership to the Blacksburg Country Club, the obvious place to find a butcher, baker or candlestick maker.

-Bonuses

50k for winning the ACC “or conference with which the University is affiliated”
25k for winning conference coach of the year
25k for winning national coach of the year
Tournament bonuses (only one may apply)
25k for making NCAA Tournament
50k for making Round of 32
75k for making Sweet 16
100k for making Final Four
150k for winning the championship
50k for APR score 960 or higher
15k or team GPA of 2.6
20k for GPA of 2.75
25k for GPA of 3.0
-12 tickets to home games, 24 tickets to ACC Tourney games, 24 NCAA Tourney tickets
-12 tickets to home football games
-Budget of 725k to be split among 3 assistants. I’ve yet to confirm what Isaac Chew made at Marquette, but assume he took quite a haircut to follow Buzz to VT.
-Use of two new vehicles to be replaced every two years
-Two seats on the team plane for family members for road games or Tournament games

I'm guessing Justin Fuente didn't get a sweetheart deal like this one. After Josh's debacle of a contract, there was no way Memphis was going to sign off on something similar for Buzz.

And like someone else said, Buzz ain't done #$%# at Va Tech. Not to mention, someone told me the competition in the ACC is pretty tough in basketball.
05-31-2016 09:20 PM
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TallTiger Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Anybody notice this from Calkins?
When Justin Fuente's contract was renewed, didn't he ask that the buyout be lowered? That issue was brought up when it was obvious he was leaving with a few games left last year.

The University offered him a better deal, but he adjusted it. His goal was to get to a Power 5 school. I heard South Carolina talked to him for two to three weeks before VT.

We couldn't afford Buzz, that's an expensive contract.
06-01-2016 04:01 AM
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Brother Bluto Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Anybody notice this from Calkins?
(05-31-2016 08:51 PM)fsquid Wrote:  
(05-31-2016 05:03 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  
(05-31-2016 10:52 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  
(05-31-2016 10:43 AM)TallTiger Wrote:  After what total control caused with Cal, we don't need to go there.

You mean multiple elite 8 trips and a title game? Yeah, who wants that again.

more like the vacated season, and NCAA probation...the NCAA won't be so forgiving a third time around...

Ooo they may take scholarships

They for sure won't ever vacate any 18-14 seasons
06-01-2016 11:37 AM
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