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In theory, I don't blame Art Briles...
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BaylorFerg Offline
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Post: #41
RE: In theory, I don't blame Art Briles...
(05-30-2016 05:43 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  One common factor involved in the rape cases is booze. Ban booze from the campus and all that, and girls would not be violated by guys taken advantage of passed out girls.

Alcohol is banned at Baylor and so is any form of premarital sex. Hell, up until my freshman year (April '96) dancing on campus was banned.
05-31-2016 01:00 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #42
RE: In theory, I don't blame Art Briles...
(05-31-2016 12:55 AM)BaylorFerg Wrote:  
(05-30-2016 08:27 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(05-30-2016 07:08 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  
(05-29-2016 11:38 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Boise State is one that can win, and don't have these types of players on their teams. Yeah, they booted some players off the team after they got arrested, and suspended their QB who went pee outside his hotel room on a balcony. Boise State does not want to look like Baylor.
I never heard any North Dakota State players doing these things either.

Montana booted QB Jordan Johnson because he was charged of raping another female student, but he was acquitted of the charges. But, Montana does not want him back either because of his character, and don't want the Title IX issues. That is why Montana is not on the list because they actively act right away on rape accusations.

Stoops at Oklahoma want to take in trouble kids as well.

It seems the P5 schools mainly care for win at all cost attitude, and take in players who are trouble from the start.

Link

In summary, one of the Baylor players convicted of assault came from Boise State. The following quote is in reference to an email quoted in the article.

Quote:This correspondence indicates that Petersen was aware of Ukwuachu’s behavior in his final week at Boise State—as does the fact that at the end of that week, Petersen dismissed Ukwuachu from the team.

Boise State managed to get the player out of town before the crap hit the fan. They also didn't take any steps to get the player any help. Basically they just turned him loose on another campus.

I'm not saying Baylor or the P5 are innocent. I am saying your attempt to paint this as an exclusive P5 issue while the rest of the NCAA schools are saints is insulting and just plain wrong.

Banning booze? That's just another way of saying it was the girls fault. Again, insulting and wrong.


Actually, Peterson warned Briles, but Briles ignored the warnings and gone ahead and took the player. Briles then went on to blame Peterson, but will not take the blame for his own mistake. He tried to point the finger at somebody else.

The booze is a problem for sure. When the girl either drinks the booze or have her drink spike and passes out? The guys take advantage of the girls at that time while the girls are passed out. That is not an open invite to have sex with the girls. They had no function to say yes or no. Even the guys when drunk have no control either.

Petersen never warned Briles that SU was a dangerous person. He informed him that he was homesick, depressed and had punched out a window. He called Briles up to ask him to take SU because he thought being close to home would help. The assault on Sam's girlfriend at Boise State was never known until his rape trial when his ex testified under oath that she never told anyone at Boise St about the assault. SU was suspended and never played a down for Baylor. Baylor and Briles look bad enough without you fabricating more BS to try and make them look even worse.


That is Briles's spin. Peterson denied what Briles said. Now, you see the Baylor scandal as a coverup. Don't you think that Briles accusing Peterson just a way to coverup that he did knew before hand?
05-31-2016 02:37 AM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #43
RE: In theory, I don't blame Art Briles...
(05-30-2016 05:43 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  One common factor involved in the rape cases is booze. Ban booze from the campus and all that, and girls would not be violated by guys taken advantage of passed out girls.

Just because it's banned doesn't mean it can't be smuggled in, just like posting a speed limit doesn't stop people from speeding when the cops aren't looking (and sometimes when they are looking). Plus, many college students live off campus.
05-31-2016 02:43 AM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #44
RE: In theory, I don't blame Art Briles...
(05-31-2016 12:55 AM)BaylorFerg Wrote:  
(05-30-2016 08:27 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Actually, Peterson warned Briles, but Briles ignored the warnings and gone ahead and took the player. Briles then went on to blame Peterson, but will not take the blame for his own mistake. He tried to point the finger at somebody else.

Petersen never warned Briles that SU was a dangerous person. He informed him that he was homesick, depressed and had punched out a window. He called Briles up to ask him to take SU because he thought being close to home would help. The assault on Sam's girlfriend at Boise State was never known until his rape trial when his ex testified under oath that she never told anyone at Boise St about the assault. SU was suspended and never played a down for Baylor. Baylor and Briles look bad enough without you fabricating more BS to try and make them look even worse.

I make it a habit never to quote the poster you responded to, however I must point out that given light of what has come forward, and given what Peterson claimed when asked about this, how sure are you of Briles' word on this topic? I understand taking his word at the time, because everyone believes their own coaches, but I would not be sure so sure to believe him at this point.
05-31-2016 10:20 AM
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Wolfman Offline
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Post: #45
RE: In theory, I don't blame Art Briles...
(05-30-2016 08:27 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(05-30-2016 07:08 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  
(05-29-2016 11:38 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Boise State is one that can win, and don't have these types of players on their teams. Yeah, they booted some players off the team after they got arrested, and suspended their QB who went pee outside his hotel room on a balcony. Boise State does not want to look like Baylor.
I never heard any North Dakota State players doing these things either.

Montana booted QB Jordan Johnson because he was charged of raping another female student, but he was acquitted of the charges. But, Montana does not want him back either because of his character, and don't want the Title IX issues. That is why Montana is not on the list because they actively act right away on rape accusations.

Stoops at Oklahoma want to take in trouble kids as well.

It seems the P5 schools mainly care for win at all cost attitude, and take in players who are trouble from the start.

Link

In summary, one of the Baylor players convicted of assault came from Boise State. The following quote is in reference to an email quoted in the article.

Quote:This correspondence indicates that Petersen was aware of Ukwuachu’s behavior in his final week at Boise State—as does the fact that at the end of that week, Petersen dismissed Ukwuachu from the team.

Boise State managed to get the player out of town before the crap hit the fan. They also didn't take any steps to get the player any help. Basically they just turned him loose on another campus.

I'm not saying Baylor or the P5 are innocent. I am saying your attempt to paint this as an exclusive P5 issue while the rest of the NCAA schools are saints is insulting and just plain wrong.

Banning booze? That's just another way of saying it was the girls fault. Again, insulting and wrong.


Actually, Peterson warned Briles, but Briles ignored the warnings and gone ahead and took the player. Briles then went on to blame Peterson, but will not take the blame for his own mistake. He tried to point the finger at somebody else.

The booze is a problem for sure. When the girl either drinks the booze or have her drink spike and passes out? The guys take advantage of the girls at that time while the girls are passed out. That is not an open invite to have sex with the girls. They had no function to say yes or no. Even the guys when drunk have no control either.

That's not the point. You said it doesn't happen at Boise State and it clearly does.

Being drunk is not an open invitation to rape or be raped. Period.

It doesn't have to be alcohol to be spiked. Should Baylor ban iced tea? Lemonade? Soda? Water??

Having sex with someone that is passed out is just nasty.
05-31-2016 10:55 AM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #46
RE: In theory, I don't blame Art Briles...
(05-30-2016 12:04 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  You say that now but if Pitt had a roster full of Academic All-Americans yet was getting thrashed 52-9 and 37-14 every week and every year, you'd get tired of the losing.

Ironically, you'd ask "why don't we have any good players." No one wants to be the embarrassment of their colleagues because their school sucks at the major sports, everyone wants to win now and especially if they are a donor and paying for it or going to games and paying the cost for that.

Brother, I've been there. This isn't theoretical for me. During the 1996 season, I sat in Ohio Stadium and watched Ohio State mercilessly beat Pitt 72-0 (the year before it was 54-14 at Pitt Stadium). They ran a punt return back for a touchdown in that game with only eight men on the field.

The next week we lost to Miami in the Orange Bowl, 45-0. Two weeks later, Syracuse beat us 55-7 in the Carrier Dome and that was followed by a 60-6 loss at Notre Dame.

You would be hard pressed to find another major college football team which has won a national championship in the modern era (1976) that was repeatedly pounded like Pitt was pounded for years and years.

Pitt de-emphasized football and instituted a number of extra criteria that its players had to follow just to gain admission into the university. And we were DRILLED as a result of that decision. Still, through it all, we at least maintained our dignity. I would take every single one of those losses with pride as compared to our in-state rivals Penn State. Paterno got his 409 wins but holy hell, man. At what cost?

Was that worth it for them? I'm sure some will say yes. However, for me, there's no way that would ever be worth it. Now, when people think of Penn State they don't think of Joe Paterno, the great football coach full of character and integrity. They think of a fraud who pretended to be one thing but was actually someone altogether different than his public persona. They think of a man who covered up child rape and a State College culture that at least tacitly condoned it.

That will be Briles legacy too. Just another crook in a long line of them in college football history. Like Paterno, Briles was nothing but a phony piece of shitt.


(05-30-2016 12:04 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  So there you have it, people will be outraged by a scandal like this but I bet if Baylor was winning 1-2 Big 12 games a year like they were before Briles, they don't get that stadium built and I bet ol' Floyd Casey would be empty except for when Texas, OU and TCU came to town. So which do you want? Poor and outrageed fan support or winning with thugs? You don't have to win with thugs but your chances of comepting in that tough neighborhood increase dramtically by taking chances on them if you're lil' ol' Baylor. The same is true for their (possibly/presumably) cheating basketball program.

All of that is likely true but so what? Have some perspective, man. You have lost sight of the shore. No amount of losing can ever damage Baylor University as much as this scandal has and will.

(05-30-2016 12:04 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  As for that last paragraph, my daughter, if I had one, would be way more of a worry going somewhere in the middle of the hood like Spellman, Texas Southern or even UH (it's not as dangerous as people make it out but there is still poverty and crime in the area) than in Waco or most anywhere Briles may go (he likes rural locations). We're talking about a relative few rapes over the course of a few years, there are rapes, date rapes and sexual harrassment on every college campus, let alone crime in general. Rather than shield her, I'd put pressure on the administration to ensure her safety and keep a watchful eye on everyone, whether they are with the chemistry majors or football team, and discipline people sharply.

How can you pressure the administration to do anything if the first thing you are looking to do is completely absolve the man most responsible for creating/facilitating/condoning a rape culture within his program?

I have two boys but if I had a girl there is no way in hell I would send her anywhere that has been proven to systemically cover up the rapes of other people's little girls, even going so far as to openly intimidate some of them.

Honestly the jock worship in this country is out of control. If Briles were a postal inspector or a manager at Wal-Mart instead of a football coach, and he was actively covering up crimes committed by his employees, would you be so forgiving?

No chance.
05-31-2016 12:19 PM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #47
RE: In theory, I don't blame Art Briles...
(05-30-2016 01:31 AM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  New Yorker article by Malcolm Gladwell (who I'm sure has no favorite CFB, unlike Dr. Isaly). http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/0...plain-view

Paterno and PSU football's legacy had little to do with Sandusky's crimes. Please don't compare our sad, sad situation with Baylor's. Apples to oranges.

Why not? There are many striking similarities. The only major dissimilarity I see so far is the Baylor folks at least appear to be willing to face reality and move on rather than blaming everyone else for their own institutional and cultural failures.
05-31-2016 12:35 PM
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Post: #48
RE: In theory, I don't blame Art Briles...
(05-30-2016 08:27 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(05-30-2016 07:08 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  
(05-29-2016 11:38 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Boise State is one that can win, and don't have these types of players on their teams. Yeah, they booted some players off the team after they got arrested, and suspended their QB who went pee outside his hotel room on a balcony. Boise State does not want to look like Baylor.
I never heard any North Dakota State players doing these things either.

Montana booted QB Jordan Johnson because he was charged of raping another female student, but he was acquitted of the charges. But, Montana does not want him back either because of his character, and don't want the Title IX issues. That is why Montana is not on the list because they actively act right away on rape accusations.

Stoops at Oklahoma want to take in trouble kids as well.

It seems the P5 schools mainly care for win at all cost attitude, and take in players who are trouble from the start.

Link

In summary, one of the Baylor players convicted of assault came from Boise State. The following quote is in reference to an email quoted in the article.

Quote:This correspondence indicates that Petersen was aware of Ukwuachu’s behavior in his final week at Boise State—as does the fact that at the end of that week, Petersen dismissed Ukwuachu from the team.

Boise State managed to get the player out of town before the crap hit the fan. They also didn't take any steps to get the player any help. Basically they just turned him loose on another campus.

I'm not saying Baylor or the P5 are innocent. I am saying your attempt to paint this as an exclusive P5 issue while the rest of the NCAA schools are saints is insulting and just plain wrong.

Banning booze? That's just another way of saying it was the girls fault. Again, insulting and wrong.


Actually, Peterson warned Briles, but Briles ignored the warnings and gone ahead and took the player. Briles then went on to blame Peterson, but will not take the blame for his own mistake. He tried to point the finger at somebody else.

The booze is a problem for sure. When the girl either drinks the booze or have her drink spike and passes out? The guys take advantage of the girls at that time while the girls are passed out. That is not an open invite to have sex with the girls. They had no function to say yes or no. Even the guys when drunk have no control either.

Peterson said he did.
Briles said he didn't.

Peterson could have been violating federal law if he said too much.

Hard to tell who is telling the truth here. Peterson wants to look like he didn't just dump somebody and Briles doesn't want to admit he took a bad apple.
05-31-2016 12:45 PM
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Post: #49
RE: In theory, I don't blame Art Briles...
(05-29-2016 01:20 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  In theory I say, don't take any more from that than you see. I don't condone covering up crimes or recruiting players that are clear character risks.

That said, in a vacuum, I can't say for certain that I wouldn't do some of the same things. There's a significant amount of pressure to win in intercollegiate athletics where if you try to win the right way and win cleanly you end up like Rice or Tulane. That's fine and dandy if your goal is mostly to mimic Ivy League schools but in the Big 12, to compete with schools like Texas, OU and increasingly OSU (and for a number of years, Nebraska) who have a bottomless pit of resources, you simply can't have a roster of all choir boys.

Unless their goal was to be irrelevant in the Big 12 from 1996 until eternity and be considered a leech who was added due to nepotism, then they had to take some character risks if they wanted any shot at taking down UT, OU, TCU and even OSU and K-State. I wouldn't do what he did sitting here as a random internet poster but with his job depending on him winning or be left dealing with irrational and impatient alumni and donors that want to win at all costs, I can't say for certain I wouldn't do some of what he did although harboring rapists is beyond low and you should dismiss them as soon as something negative comes to light, especially a second chancer like Sam Ukwauchu.

One can win without sacrificing morality and allowing others, in this case young women, pay for the price of success. I'm really disappointed in this sentiment where it's okay to victimize people for the price of success. It is downright disgusting, within a vacuum outside a vacuum, it doesn't matter. You can win at small schools without compromising.
05-31-2016 12:52 PM
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Post: #50
RE: In theory, I don't blame Art Briles...
(05-31-2016 12:19 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  
(05-30-2016 12:04 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  You say that now but if Pitt had a roster full of Academic All-Americans yet was getting thrashed 52-9 and 37-14 every week and every year, you'd get tired of the losing.

Ironically, you'd ask "why don't we have any good players." No one wants to be the embarrassment of their colleagues because their school sucks at the major sports, everyone wants to win now and especially if they are a donor and paying for it or going to games and paying the cost for that.

Brother, I've been there. This isn't theoretical for me. During the 1996 season, I sat in Ohio Stadium and watched Ohio State mercilessly beat Pitt 72-0 (the year before it was 54-14 at Pitt Stadium). They ran a punt return back for a touchdown in that game with only eight men on the field.

The next week we lost to Miami in the Orange Bowl, 45-0. Two weeks later, Syracuse beat us 55-7 in the Carrier Dome and that was followed by a 60-6 loss at Notre Dame.

You would be hard pressed to find another major college football team which has won a national championship in the modern era (1976) that was repeatedly pounded like Pitt was pounded for years and years.

Pitt de-emphasized football and instituted a number of extra criteria that its players had to follow just to gain admission into the university. And we were DRILLED as a result of that decision. Still, through it all, we at least maintained our dignity. I would take every single one of those losses with pride as compared to our in-state rivals Penn State. Paterno got his 409 wins but holy hell, man. At what cost?

Was that worth it for them? I'm sure some will say yes. However, for me, there's no way that would ever be worth it. Now, when people think of Penn State they don't think of Joe Paterno, the great football coach full of character and integrity. They think of a fraud who pretended to be one thing but was actually someone altogether different than his public persona. They think of a man who covered up child rape and a State College culture that at least tacitly condoned it.

That will be Briles legacy too. Just another crook in a long line of them in college football history. Like Paterno, Briles was nothing but a phony piece of shitt.


(05-30-2016 12:04 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  So there you have it, people will be outraged by a scandal like this but I bet if Baylor was winning 1-2 Big 12 games a year like they were before Briles, they don't get that stadium built and I bet ol' Floyd Casey would be empty except for when Texas, OU and TCU came to town. So which do you want? Poor and outrageed fan support or winning with thugs? You don't have to win with thugs but your chances of comepting in that tough neighborhood increase dramtically by taking chances on them if you're lil' ol' Baylor. The same is true for their (possibly/presumably) cheating basketball program.

All of that is likely true but so what? Have some perspective, man. You have lost sight of the shore. No amount of losing can ever damage Baylor University as much as this scandal has and will.

(05-30-2016 12:04 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  As for that last paragraph, my daughter, if I had one, would be way more of a worry going somewhere in the middle of the hood like Spellman, Texas Southern or even UH (it's not as dangerous as people make it out but there is still poverty and crime in the area) than in Waco or most anywhere Briles may go (he likes rural locations). We're talking about a relative few rapes over the course of a few years, there are rapes, date rapes and sexual harrassment on every college campus, let alone crime in general. Rather than shield her, I'd put pressure on the administration to ensure her safety and keep a watchful eye on everyone, whether they are with the chemistry majors or football team, and discipline people sharply.

How can you pressure the administration to do anything if the first thing you are looking to do is completely absolve the man most responsible for creating/facilitating/condoning a rape culture within his program?

I have two boys but if I had a girl there is no way in hell I would send her anywhere that has been proven to systemically cover up the rapes of other people's little girls, even going so far as to openly intimidate some of them.

Honestly the jock worship in this country is out of control. If Briles were a postal inspector or a manager at Wal-Mart instead of a football coach, and he was actively covering up crimes committed by his employees, would you be so forgiving?

No chance.

Great post.
05-31-2016 12:56 PM
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Post: #51
RE: In theory, I don't blame Art Briles...
(05-31-2016 10:55 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  That's not the point. You said it doesn't happen at Boise State and it clearly does.

Being drunk is not an open invitation to rape or be raped. Period.

It doesn't have to be alcohol to be spiked. Should Baylor ban iced tea? Lemonade? Soda? Water??

Having sex with someone that is passed out is just nasty.

And illegitimate in a number of ways, I'd never brag about it (in the sense of telling everyone at school I slept with a certain girl. Where's the fun and where's the pleasure?).
05-31-2016 01:23 PM
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Post: #52
RE: In theory, I don't blame Art Briles...
(05-31-2016 01:23 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(05-31-2016 10:55 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  That's not the point. You said it doesn't happen at Boise State and it clearly does.

Being drunk is not an open invitation to rape or be raped. Period.

It doesn't have to be alcohol to be spiked. Should Baylor ban iced tea? Lemonade? Soda? Water??

Having sex with someone that is passed out is just nasty.

And illegitimate in a number of ways, I'd never brag about it (in the sense of telling everyone at school I slept with a certain girl. Where's the fun and where's the pleasure?).

Having sex with someone who is unable to consent is far beyond "illegitimate in a number of ways": it's the legal definition of rape.
05-31-2016 01:46 PM
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Post: #53
RE: In theory, I don't blame Art Briles...
(05-31-2016 12:19 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  
(05-30-2016 12:04 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  You say that now but if Pitt had a roster full of Academic All-Americans yet was getting thrashed 52-9 and 37-14 every week and every year, you'd get tired of the losing.

Ironically, you'd ask "why don't we have any good players." No one wants to be the embarrassment of their colleagues because their school sucks at the major sports, everyone wants to win now and especially if they are a donor and paying for it or going to games and paying the cost for that.

Brother, I've been there. This isn't theoretical for me. During the 1996 season, I sat in Ohio Stadium and watched Ohio State mercilessly beat Pitt 72-0 (the year before it was 54-14 at Pitt Stadium). They ran a punt return back for a touchdown in that game with only eight men on the field.

The next week we lost to Miami in the Orange Bowl, 45-0. Two weeks later, Syracuse beat us 55-7 in the Carrier Dome and that was followed by a 60-6 loss at Notre Dame.

You would be hard pressed to find another major college football team which has won a national championship in the modern era (1976) that was repeatedly pounded like Pitt was pounded for years and years.

Pitt de-emphasized football and instituted a number of extra criteria that its players had to follow just to gain admission into the university. And we were DRILLED as a result of that decision. Still, through it all, we at least maintained our dignity. I would take every single one of those losses with pride as compared to our in-state rivals Penn State. Paterno got his 409 wins but holy hell, man. At what cost?

Was that worth it for them? I'm sure some will say yes. However, for me, there's no way that would ever be worth it. Now, when people think of Penn State they don't think of Joe Paterno, the great football coach full of character and integrity. They think of a fraud who pretended to be one thing but was actually someone altogether different than his public persona. They think of a man who covered up child rape and a State College culture that at least tacitly condoned it.

That will be Briles legacy too. Just another crook in a long line of them in college football history. Like Paterno, Briles was nothing but a phony piece of shitt.


(05-30-2016 12:04 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  So there you have it, people will be outraged by a scandal like this but I bet if Baylor was winning 1-2 Big 12 games a year like they were before Briles, they don't get that stadium built and I bet ol' Floyd Casey would be empty except for when Texas, OU and TCU came to town. So which do you want? Poor and outrageed fan support or winning with thugs? You don't have to win with thugs but your chances of comepting in that tough neighborhood increase dramtically by taking chances on them if you're lil' ol' Baylor. The same is true for their (possibly/presumably) cheating basketball program.

All of that is likely true but so what? Have some perspective, man. You have lost sight of the shore. No amount of losing can ever damage Baylor University as much as this scandal has and will.

(05-30-2016 12:04 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  As for that last paragraph, my daughter, if I had one, would be way more of a worry going somewhere in the middle of the hood like Spellman, Texas Southern or even UH (it's not as dangerous as people make it out but there is still poverty and crime in the area) than in Waco or most anywhere Briles may go (he likes rural locations). We're talking about a relative few rapes over the course of a few years, there are rapes, date rapes and sexual harrassment on every college campus, let alone crime in general. Rather than shield her, I'd put pressure on the administration to ensure her safety and keep a watchful eye on everyone, whether they are with the chemistry majors or football team, and discipline people sharply.

How can you pressure the administration to do anything if the first thing you are looking to do is completely absolve the man most responsible for creating/facilitating/condoning a rape culture within his program?

I have two boys but if I had a girl there is no way in hell I would send her anywhere that has been proven to systemically cover up the rapes of other people's little girls, even going so far as to openly intimidate some of them.

Honestly the jock worship in this country is out of control. If Briles were a postal inspector or a manager at Wal-Mart instead of a football coach, and he was actively covering up crimes committed by his employees, would you be so forgiving?

No chance.

Quote 1: You forgot that you lost to a Kim Helton-led Houston team. You should have dropped football right then and there for that offense. 03-lmfao 07-coffee3

Quote 2: Keep in mind, I said I don't condone anything they did and if pressed into the situation, I don't know what I'd do. It's easy sitting here at the computer and decrying it all but putting myself in Briles' shoes knowing I'd have a hard time winning without bringing in some thugs, I may just try it. In Novemeber, no one is thinking about or wants to hear that you kicked 5 starters off your team unless they're high profile offensive players, especially QB and RB, all they want to know is why you lost to Kansas.

Quote 3: I'll be honest and say I don't know what I would do. I'm not a parent and don't plan on having any children. But I also know rape and bad apples persist everywhere and these were a relative few rapes over the span of a few years.

There's danger everywhere if you're looking for it or in the right place at the wrong time. I'd encourage my daughter not to go to parties and avoid trying to be a groupie, for starters. It's not right at all to make excuses for rape or some men's behavior and it's not fair to say some girls are asking for it but on the other hand some girls certainly raise their chances by willing to do anything they can to be associated with the big sports star at school. They'll go to parties where drugs and alcohol are prevalent and with people they thought they could trust but are willing to take advantage of that trust at moment's notice. Or maybe they'll take advantage of that trust later on when no one is looking. Bottom line, I'd try my best to ensure she hung with good people and not wolves in sheep's clothing. That's a better strategy than trying to shield her from an overblown sense of danger.

But then again, I'm not a parent nor do I plan to be one.
05-31-2016 02:21 PM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #54
RE: In theory, I don't blame Art Briles...
(05-31-2016 01:46 PM)58-56 Wrote:  Having sex with someone who is unable to consent is far beyond "illegitimate in a number of ways": it's the legal definition of rape.

Right, I'm just saying that the idea of bragging about having sex with someone later on knowing the girl didn't consent for it and let alone when they weren't conscious for it as I've (presumably) known some people to do in the past is something I'd never do. Forget about the rape part, it just flat out doesn't even count in my book and is cheap and dumb bragging about.
(This post was last modified: 05-31-2016 06:40 PM by C2__.)
05-31-2016 02:30 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #55
RE: In theory, I don't blame Art Briles...
(05-31-2016 10:55 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  It doesn't have to be alcohol to be spiked. Should Baylor ban iced tea? Lemonade? Soda? Water??

Having sex with someone that is passed out is just nasty.

[Image: 3094769_o.gif]
05-31-2016 06:22 PM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #56
RE: In theory, I don't blame Art Briles...
It's football season...no one cares that Charlie Strong weeded out the bad characters from UT football, they only care that he's not winning and losing against schools like Kansas.

I'm not saying he should have a lockerroom full of thugs but this is what I mean when I say people only care about certain things during the off-season.
11-22-2016 01:16 AM
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uccheese Offline
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Post: #57
RE: In theory, I don't blame Art Briles...
I will go with you as far as this... I don't blame coaches who take on kids who are character risks. There is always risk/reward in life and I can see why they think it's worth it.

This went at least a step (10 steps??) beyond that though. This was actively impacting the legal system and justice. If you take a shot on a kid and it burns you, you've got to know when to pull the plug, do the right thing, and move on. For your sake, for the possible victims sake, for your schools sake, for your teams sake. Heck, you're not even doing the player any favors by enabling him. He should have known when it was time to say enough is enough and he just went way, way too far.
11-23-2016 08:29 AM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #58
RE: In theory, I don't blame Art Briles...
Maybe it's time for Bob Stoops to cut ties with Mixon over what just happened.
12-19-2016 04:54 PM
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bullet Offline
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Post: #59
RE: In theory, I don't blame Art Briles...
(12-19-2016 04:54 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Maybe it's time for Bob Stoops to cut ties with Mixon over what just happened.

That is just the release of the video of something that happened before he even brought him on. Its nothing new.
12-19-2016 05:36 PM
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jarmzet Offline
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Post: #60
RE: In theory, I don't blame Art Briles...
(05-29-2016 05:43 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  If Winston was at Boise State? He would have been booted right away.

What bad thing happened because Winston wasn't booted off the team and out of school?

It depends upon the exact circumstances, but I don't think you always throw a person away because they made a mistake.
12-20-2016 01:57 PM
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