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By the numbers: How would UC fit in Big 12 (Link)
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CardinalJim Online
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By the numbers: How would UC fit in Big 12 (Link)
Big 12 Conference presidents are expected to come armed with data deemed critical to guiding their decision on expansion when they convene for meetings this week in suburban Dallas.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/2.../85018126/
05-28-2016 02:32 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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RE: By the numbers: How would UC fit in Big 12 (Link)
I think Cincinnati would make a great addition to the Big12 purely by the numbers.

There are still a few other considerations that the Big12 would have to decide for themselves on.
05-28-2016 02:38 PM
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UofMstateU Offline
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RE: By the numbers: How would UC fit in Big 12 (Link)
Thats a fairly skewed, and downright poorly edited, report.

1. They show "Basketball Attendance" in the report, but clearly they mean football. (And their football graphic has three settings, and they lead with an average 5 year attendance. 5 years is an arbitrary number. The other two metrics are led by Memphis, and its by a wide gap. (2015 attendance and stadium size.) If they chose a 2 year average vs 5 year, Memphis would have led that as well.

2. The tv market is from the standard dumb-downed numbers, and not the true combined markets.

3. The proximity of "closest B12 member" is useless because, as a member of the conference, the distance to everyone else in the conference is more important. If you use average distance to the entire B12, Memphis and Houston are tied. Everyone else is much further away.

So does Cinci score well? Yes. Do they outscore Memphis? Not in most of the metrics that matter, which, if you dig far enough in this report, starts to become evident.
(This post was last modified: 05-28-2016 02:53 PM by UofMstateU.)
05-28-2016 02:50 PM
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CardinalJim Online
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RE: By the numbers: How would UC fit in Big 12 (Link)
Unlike when WVU and UofL were trying to join The Big 12 or when UofL and UConn were trying to join The ACC, when it was an either or situation, I believe the decision The Big 12 is facing is to add 2 or 4 teams.
CJ
05-28-2016 04:42 PM
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Sellular1 Offline
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RE: By the numbers: How would UC fit in Big 12 (Link)
(05-28-2016 02:50 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Thats a fairly skewed, and downright poorly edited, report.

1. They show "Basketball Attendance" in the report, but clearly they mean football. (And their football graphic has three settings, and they lead with an average 5 year attendance. 5 years is an arbitrary number. The other two metrics are led by Memphis, and its by a wide gap. (2015 attendance and stadium size.) If they chose a 2 year average vs 5 year, Memphis would have led that as well.

2. The tv market is from the standard dumb-downed numbers, and not the true combined markets.

3. The proximity of "closest B12 member" is useless because, as a member of the conference, the distance to everyone else in the conference is more important. If you use average distance to the entire B12, Memphis and Houston are tied. Everyone else is much further away.

So does Cinci score well? Yes. Do they outscore Memphis? Not in most of the metrics that matter, which, if you dig far enough in this report, starts to become evident.

Good thing academic standing isn't something being measured03-nutkick
05-28-2016 06:23 PM
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Pervis_Griffith Offline
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RE: By the numbers: How would UC fit in Big 12 (Link)
If the Big XII expands, I think Cincy is a lock.

It's who is the second school invited. And that's where it gets squirrelly.
05-28-2016 07:04 PM
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MJG Offline
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RE: By the numbers: How would UC fit in Big 12 (Link)
Football wins Boise last every other important category not a peer of any other candidate.

Memphis first in facilities decent in most but lacking in the academic profile. Wouldn't matter but in the P5 it is much more important.

The Florida twins only problem is the newness of their programs. Boise suffers from this in addition to laughable endowment and academic profile.

Cincinnati and Colorado state probably have the least amount of problems.

U Conn and Houston are too close or too far.

BYU if Baptist I think they get in. Not nough Mormons in the Big 12 footprint.

I say take four and pay them half shares for ten years.
(This post was last modified: 05-28-2016 07:15 PM by MJG.)
05-28-2016 07:13 PM
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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RE: By the numbers: How would UC fit in Big 12 (Link)
I've been advocating for Memphis as the second team along with Cincinnati to be invited to the B12. There's a lot of metrics that get thrown around but if you look at the map, it makes geographic/travel sense for Memphis's inclusion. The B12 doesn't need to create any more islands similar to WV - they should build outward incrementally. You can start to picture a future eastward expansion with the additions of say Central Florida and UConn that create a nice mini-pod not to mention some rivalries that started with the former Big East. Obviously, expansion decisions factor in different metrics (not all are equal) but at this time Cincinnati and Memphis make the most sense overall if the target is only 12 IMO.

[Image: Big-12-map1.jpg]
05-28-2016 09:11 PM
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muffinman Offline
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RE: By the numbers: How would UC fit in Big 12 (Link)
(05-28-2016 09:11 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  I've been advocating for Memphis as the second team along with Cincinnati to be invited to the B12. There's a lot of metrics that get thrown around but if you look at the map, it makes geographic/travel sense for Memphis's inclusion. The B12 doesn't need to create any more islands similar to WV - they should build outward incrementally. You can start to picture a future eastward expansion with the additions of say Central Florida and UConn that create a nice mini-pod not to mention some rivalries that started with the former Big East. Obviously, expansion decisions factor in different metrics (not all are equal) but at this time Cincinnati and Memphis make the most sense overall if the target is only 12 IMO.

[Image: Big-12-map1.jpg]

I agree with this, but I am biased...

Memphis and Cinci have history together.
05-28-2016 09:31 PM
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Pervis_Griffith Offline
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RE: By the numbers: How would UC fit in Big 12 (Link)
(05-28-2016 09:11 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  I've been advocating for Memphis as the second team along with Cincinnati to be invited to the B12. There's a lot of metrics that get thrown around but if you look at the map, it makes geographic/travel sense for Memphis's inclusion. The B12 doesn't need to create any more islands similar to WV - they should build outward incrementally. You can start to picture a future eastward expansion with the additions of say Central Florida and UConn that create a nice mini-pod not to mention some rivalries that started with the former Big East. Obviously, expansion decisions factor in different metrics (not all are equal) but at this time Cincinnati and Memphis make the most sense overall if the target is only 12 IMO.

[Image: Big-12-map1.jpg]


I'm not sure the Big XII cares about "creating islands" ... that didn't sway them with selecting WVU to being with.

Adding UConn with Cincy gets them in ACC territory (arguably Big Ten territory too), gets a well funded athletic department, a basketball power and sticks it to the ACC ... for ACC snagging Louisville out from under the Big XII.

Memphis ain't going anywhere. They'll be available when the Big XII looks to possibly expand to 14 down the road. Maybe the Big XII wants to see Memphis sustain their sudden football success, through several coaches, like Cincy has proven.
05-28-2016 10:37 PM
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rtaylor Offline
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Post: #11
RE: By the numbers: How would UC fit in Big 12 (Link)
(05-28-2016 02:50 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Thats a fairly skewed, and downright poorly edited, report.

1. They show "Basketball Attendance" in the report, but clearly they mean football. (And their football graphic has three settings, and they lead with an average 5 year attendance. 5 years is an arbitrary number. The other two metrics are led by Memphis, and its by a wide gap. (2015 attendance and stadium size.) If they chose a 2 year average vs 5 year, Memphis would have led that as well.

2. The tv market is from the standard dumb-downed numbers, and not the true combined markets.

3. The proximity of "closest B12 member" is useless because, as a member of the conference, the distance to everyone else in the conference is more important. If you use average distance to the entire B12, Memphis and Houston are tied. Everyone else is much further away.

So does Cinci score well? Yes. Do they outscore Memphis? Not in most of the metrics that matter, which, if you dig far enough in this report, starts to become evident.

Ok, you mad? Why didn't Memphis get into the BEAST if all of these things are evident? 03-lmfao
05-29-2016 12:27 AM
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RE: By the numbers: How would UC fit in Big 12 (Link)
(05-28-2016 04:42 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Unlike when WVU and UofL were trying to join The Big 12 or when UofL and UConn were trying to join The ACC, when it was an either or situation, I believe the decision The Big 12 is facing is to add 2 or 4 teams.
CJ

I think the decision is 2 or 0.
05-29-2016 07:31 AM
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RE: By the numbers: How would UC fit in Big 12 (Link)
(05-28-2016 10:37 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  
(05-28-2016 09:11 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  I've been advocating for Memphis as the second team along with Cincinnati to be invited to the B12. There's a lot of metrics that get thrown around but if you look at the map, it makes geographic/travel sense for Memphis's inclusion. The B12 doesn't need to create any more islands similar to WV - they should build outward incrementally. You can start to picture a future eastward expansion with the additions of say Central Florida and UConn that create a nice mini-pod not to mention some rivalries that started with the former Big East. Obviously, expansion decisions factor in different metrics (not all are equal) but at this time Cincinnati and Memphis make the most sense overall if the target is only 12 IMO.

[Image: Big-12-map1.jpg]


I'm not sure the Big XII cares about "creating islands" ... that didn't sway them with selecting WVU to being with.

Adding UConn with Cincy gets them in ACC territory (arguably Big Ten territory too), gets a well funded athletic department, a basketball power and sticks it to the ACC ... for ACC snagging Louisville out from under the Big XII.

Memphis ain't going anywhere. They'll be available when the Big XII looks to possibly expand to 14 down the road. Maybe the Big XII wants to see Memphis sustain their sudden football success, through several coaches, like Cincy has proven.

Yup. Memphis will definitely still be there. UConn and Cinci make the most sense as the first 2. Especially if a network is in play. UConn has 3rd tier content that will get ratings in the NYC market and is the best overall institution available.
05-29-2016 10:56 AM
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RE: By the numbers: How would UC fit in Big 12 (Link)
(05-28-2016 07:13 PM)MJG Wrote:  Football wins Boise last every other important category not a peer of any other candidate.

Memphis first in facilities decent in most but lacking in the academic profile. Wouldn't matter but in the P5 it is much more important.

The Florida twins only problem is the newness of their programs. Boise suffers from this in addition to laughable endowment and academic profile.

Cincinnati and Colorado state probably have the least amount of problems.

U Conn and Houston are too close or too far.

BYU if Baptist I think they get in. Not nough Mormons in the Big 12 footprint.

I say take four and pay them half shares for ten years.

That is the best idea in the thread.

Take BYU, Memphis, Cincinnati, UConn to add eyeballs for a conference network yet pay them 1/2 shares for 10 years.

In 10 years, Oklahoma, Kansas or Texas and their snobby attitudes could be off to greener pastures. Then the newbies (BYU, Memphis, Cincinnati, UConn) could get a full share.

Its a check mate against further development by the AAC as a tweener power conference and a checkmate against the ACC taking it some of its more attractive potential additions. ACC may want to look at UCF/USF at some point to double down in Florida.
05-29-2016 11:21 AM
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UofMstateU Offline
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RE: By the numbers: How would UC fit in Big 12 (Link)
(05-29-2016 12:27 AM)rtaylor Wrote:  
(05-28-2016 02:50 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Thats a fairly skewed, and downright poorly edited, report.

1. They show "Basketball Attendance" in the report, but clearly they mean football. (And their football graphic has three settings, and they lead with an average 5 year attendance. 5 years is an arbitrary number. The other two metrics are led by Memphis, and its by a wide gap. (2015 attendance and stadium size.) If they chose a 2 year average vs 5 year, Memphis would have led that as well.

2. The tv market is from the standard dumb-downed numbers, and not the true combined markets.

3. The proximity of "closest B12 member" is useless because, as a member of the conference, the distance to everyone else in the conference is more important. If you use average distance to the entire B12, Memphis and Houston are tied. Everyone else is much further away.

So does Cinci score well? Yes. Do they outscore Memphis? Not in most of the metrics that matter, which, if you dig far enough in this report, starts to become evident.

Ok, you mad? Why didn't Memphis get into the BEAST if all of these things are evident? 03-lmfao

Not mad. Just pointing out the skewed numbers. (And badly edited piece.)

Also, I doubt anyone matches Memphis' improvements to academics over the past 5 years. I didnt see "improvements to acedemics" listed in the piece, so I assume that thats another metric that Cinci does not match up well against Memphis.

And if the BE had invited Memphis back when they should have, this may never had been an issue. When you guys allowed UConn to win the BE championship and then they geot demolished by Oklahoma in the BCS bowl, that set everything in motion for the BE to get the boot from the BCS. (Cinci finished 2-5 in conference play that year. Remember that?)
05-29-2016 01:34 PM
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RUScarlets Online
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RE: By the numbers: How would UC fit in Big 12 (Link)
For 13/14, Houston and... Memphis. But it would be completely unnecessary.

My question is, can you get UC and perhaps UConn on the cheap? How much can you low ball them for? Pay their exit fees, but give them half price until the end of the 12 year term of the CFP? Would the current 10 team Big 12 contract automatically have to be renegotiated or is it flexible with additional teams?

I would look to add 11/12 at half price until the next TV deal is in place. And if a new TV deal has to be ironed out immediately with two additional schools, I would think they try to low ball them for at least three years.
05-29-2016 02:09 PM
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RE: By the numbers: How would UC fit in Big 12 (Link)
(05-29-2016 01:34 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  
(05-29-2016 12:27 AM)rtaylor Wrote:  
(05-28-2016 02:50 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Thats a fairly skewed, and downright poorly edited, report.

1. They show "Basketball Attendance" in the report, but clearly they mean football. (And their football graphic has three settings, and they lead with an average 5 year attendance. 5 years is an arbitrary number. The other two metrics are led by Memphis, and its by a wide gap. (2015 attendance and stadium size.) If they chose a 2 year average vs 5 year, Memphis would have led that as well.

2. The tv market is from the standard dumb-downed numbers, and not the true combined markets.

3. The proximity of "closest B12 member" is useless because, as a member of the conference, the distance to everyone else in the conference is more important. If you use average distance to the entire B12, Memphis and Houston are tied. Everyone else is much further away.

So does Cinci score well? Yes. Do they outscore Memphis? Not in most of the metrics that matter, which, if you dig far enough in this report, starts to become evident.

Ok, you mad? Why didn't Memphis get into the BEAST if all of these things are evident? 03-lmfao

Not mad. Just pointing out the skewed numbers. (And badly edited piece.)

Also, I doubt anyone matches Memphis' improvements to academics over the past 5 years. I didnt see "improvements to acedemics" listed in the piece, so I assume that thats another metric that Cinci does not match up well against Memphis.

And if the BE had invited Memphis back when they should have, this may never had been an issue. When you guys allowed UConn to win the BE championship and then they geot demolished by Oklahoma in the BCS bowl, that set everything in motion for the BE to get the boot from the BCS. (Cinci finished 2-5 in conference play that year. Remember that?)

Cincy is ranked much higher than Memphis academically. Memphis 6 year graduation rate is a terrible 42%.
05-29-2016 02:09 PM
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UofMstateU Offline
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RE: By the numbers: How would UC fit in Big 12 (Link)
(05-29-2016 02:09 PM)Sellular1 Wrote:  
(05-29-2016 01:34 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  
(05-29-2016 12:27 AM)rtaylor Wrote:  
(05-28-2016 02:50 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Thats a fairly skewed, and downright poorly edited, report.

1. They show "Basketball Attendance" in the report, but clearly they mean football. (And their football graphic has three settings, and they lead with an average 5 year attendance. 5 years is an arbitrary number. The other two metrics are led by Memphis, and its by a wide gap. (2015 attendance and stadium size.) If they chose a 2 year average vs 5 year, Memphis would have led that as well.

2. The tv market is from the standard dumb-downed numbers, and not the true combined markets.

3. The proximity of "closest B12 member" is useless because, as a member of the conference, the distance to everyone else in the conference is more important. If you use average distance to the entire B12, Memphis and Houston are tied. Everyone else is much further away.

So does Cinci score well? Yes. Do they outscore Memphis? Not in most of the metrics that matter, which, if you dig far enough in this report, starts to become evident.

Ok, you mad? Why didn't Memphis get into the BEAST if all of these things are evident? 03-lmfao

Not mad. Just pointing out the skewed numbers. (And badly edited piece.)

Also, I doubt anyone matches Memphis' improvements to academics over the past 5 years. I didnt see "improvements to acedemics" listed in the piece, so I assume that thats another metric that Cinci does not match up well against Memphis.

And if the BE had invited Memphis back when they should have, this may never had been an issue. When you guys allowed UConn to win the BE championship and then they geot demolished by Oklahoma in the BCS bowl, that set everything in motion for the BE to get the boot from the BCS. (Cinci finished 2-5 in conference play that year. Remember that?)

Cincy is ranked much higher than Memphis academically. Memphis 6 year graduation rate is a terrible 42%.

Which just shows you have no idea what you are talking about.
05-29-2016 03:12 PM
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rtaylor Offline
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Post: #19
RE: By the numbers: How would UC fit in Big 12 (Link)
(05-29-2016 01:34 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  
(05-29-2016 12:27 AM)rtaylor Wrote:  
(05-28-2016 02:50 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Thats a fairly skewed, and downright poorly edited, report.

1. They show "Basketball Attendance" in the report, but clearly they mean football. (And their football graphic has three settings, and they lead with an average 5 year attendance. 5 years is an arbitrary number. The other two metrics are led by Memphis, and its by a wide gap. (2015 attendance and stadium size.) If they chose a 2 year average vs 5 year, Memphis would have led that as well.

2. The tv market is from the standard dumb-downed numbers, and not the true combined markets.

3. The proximity of "closest B12 member" is useless because, as a member of the conference, the distance to everyone else in the conference is more important. If you use average distance to the entire B12, Memphis and Houston are tied. Everyone else is much further away.

So does Cinci score well? Yes. Do they outscore Memphis? Not in most of the metrics that matter, which, if you dig far enough in this report, starts to become evident.

Ok, you mad? Why didn't Memphis get into the BEAST if all of these things are evident? 03-lmfao

Not mad. Just pointing out the skewed numbers. (And badly edited piece.)

Also, I doubt anyone matches Memphis' improvements to academics over the past 5 years. I didnt see "improvements to acedemics" listed in the piece, so I assume that thats another metric that Cinci does not match up well against Memphis.

And if the BE had invited Memphis back when they should have, this may never had been an issue. When you guys allowed UConn to win the BE championship and then they geot demolished by Oklahoma in the BCS bowl, that set everything in motion for the BE to get the boot from the BCS. (Cinci finished 2-5 in conference play that year. Remember that?)

Are you really comparing academics? Seriously? UC torches Memphis in academics, endowment, research, etc. You bring up the one year we had a bad record over the last 10? Memphis has been putrid in football forever while UC was racking up double digit wins in a BCS conference. Oh, Memphis does outshine UC in vacated final fours though.
05-29-2016 03:18 PM
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Sellular1 Offline
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RE: By the numbers: How would UC fit in Big 12 (Link)
(05-29-2016 03:12 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  
(05-29-2016 02:09 PM)Sellular1 Wrote:  
(05-29-2016 01:34 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  
(05-29-2016 12:27 AM)rtaylor Wrote:  
(05-28-2016 02:50 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Thats a fairly skewed, and downright poorly edited, report.

1. They show "Basketball Attendance" in the report, but clearly they mean football. (And their football graphic has three settings, and they lead with an average 5 year attendance. 5 years is an arbitrary number. The other two metrics are led by Memphis, and its by a wide gap. (2015 attendance and stadium size.) If they chose a 2 year average vs 5 year, Memphis would have led that as well.

2. The tv market is from the standard dumb-downed numbers, and not the true combined markets.

3. The proximity of "closest B12 member" is useless because, as a member of the conference, the distance to everyone else in the conference is more important. If you use average distance to the entire B12, Memphis and Houston are tied. Everyone else is much further away.

So does Cinci score well? Yes. Do they outscore Memphis? Not in most of the metrics that matter, which, if you dig far enough in this report, starts to become evident.

Ok, you mad? Why didn't Memphis get into the BEAST if all of these things are evident? 03-lmfao

Not mad. Just pointing out the skewed numbers. (And badly edited piece.)

Also, I doubt anyone matches Memphis' improvements to academics over the past 5 years. I didnt see "improvements to acedemics" listed in the piece, so I assume that thats another metric that Cinci does not match up well against Memphis.

And if the BE had invited Memphis back when they should have, this may never had been an issue. When you guys allowed UConn to win the BE championship and then they geot demolished by Oklahoma in the BCS bowl, that set everything in motion for the BE to get the boot from the BCS. (Cinci finished 2-5 in conference play that year. Remember that?)

Cincy is ranked much higher than Memphis academically. Memphis 6 year graduation rate is a terrible 42%.

Which just shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

You might be able to make a weak argument that Memphis and Cincy are peers athletically, but you shouldn't be comparing academics. Cincy is clearly superior to UM. http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreview...ata/page+6

Memphis may be improving rapidly i.e. going from a 575th ranking to 520th, but you are light years behind Cincy. I don't have a horse in this race, just showing the facts
05-29-2016 03:26 PM
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