It's interesting that in my time it was pretty much everything goes but the first times we were able to vote in the 80's we voted Republican (by 20 points in 1984) and were a pretty conservative lot politically and have remained so.

But since then we have steadily restricted students in schools. Dress codes, hair codes, acceptable political speech, clear backpacks, bans on aspirin, arrests for fighting, no flags, drug dogs, police on staff, locker searches.....much of it at the behest of conservative school boards.

My kids in public elementary school had a "no talking at lunch" policy in their school. You marched silently in a line to the cafeteria and then ate silently. Like a prison.

....and that generation now has an outbreak of whiny self-indulgent thoughtless crybaby social justice warriors in rebellion.

Correlation is not causation. But it is interesting that the more we try to tamp them down and make them silent worker drones, the worse the inevitable teenage rebellion seems to be. Perhaps letting them grow up free isn't actually that bad of a thing.

(05-23-2016 12:35 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  It's interesting that in my time it was pretty much everything goes but the first times we were able to vote in the 80's we voted Republican (by 20 points in 1984) and were a pretty conservative lot politically and have remained so.

But since then we have steadily restricted students in schools. Dress codes, hair codes, acceptable political speech, clear backpacks, bans on aspirin, arrests for fighting, no flags, drug dogs, police on staff, locker searches.....much of it at the behest of conservative school boards.

My kids in public elementary school had a "no talking at lunch" policy in their school. You marched silently in a line to the cafeteria and then ate silently. Like a prison.

....and that generation now has an outbreak of whiny self-indulgent thoughtless crybaby social justice warriors in rebellion.

Correlation is not causation. But it is interesting that the more we try to tamp them down and make them silent worker drones, the worse the inevitable teenage rebellion seems to be. Perhaps letting them grow up free isn't actually that bad of a thing.

Conservatives isn't really about freedom. It's about retaining tradition which in and of itself is the opposite of freedom.

(05-23-2016 12:45 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 12:35 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  It's interesting that in my time it was pretty much everything goes but the first times we were able to vote in the 80's we voted Republican (by 20 points in 1984) and were a pretty conservative lot politically and have remained so.

But since then we have steadily restricted students in schools. Dress codes, hair codes, acceptable political speech, clear backpacks, bans on aspirin, arrests for fighting, no flags, drug dogs, police on staff, locker searches.....much of it at the behest of conservative school boards.

My kids in public elementary school had a "no talking at lunch" policy in their school. You marched silently in a line to the cafeteria and then ate silently. Like a prison.

....and that generation now has an outbreak of whiny self-indulgent thoughtless crybaby social justice warriors in rebellion.

Correlation is not causation. But it is interesting that the more we try to tamp them down and make them silent worker drones, the worse the inevitable teenage rebellion seems to be. Perhaps letting them grow up free isn't actually that bad of a thing.

Conservatives isn't really about freedom. It's about retaining tradition which in and of itself is the opposite of freedom.

Conservative and liberal these days are two collections of talking-points and wedge issues that really don't actually have any philosophical underpinnings and are just designed to carve up slices of the demographics.

For example, at one time it was "conservative" to preserve the land, the environment, the wild spaces and to have an attachment to the land. Conservatism and yeoman farmer went together. Liberal was build, build, build, progress, progress.

Now its conservative to bulldoze and pave. Its conservative to push the yeoman farmer out and the corporate farm in. Environmentalism is a non-starter if it affects profits. And for liberals its okay to be a neo-luddite who wants to stifle all progress.

The two parties have essentially divided up all the wedge issues and agreed which ones they'll exploit and which ones are the other guys turf to exploit. The philosophical framework is patched together after the fact.

Then you guys fight over all of it like a game while they have drinks in the cloak room and laugh with the lobbyists.

But to the specific topic....
I personally think I would have gone crazy if my schools had been like my kid's schools.

(05-23-2016 11:50 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 11:48 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 09:39 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  I'm strangely okay with this, but not for the reason given. "skinny jeans" aren't so different that yoga pants and leggings. My girlfriend's are stretchy as hell and fit ridiculously tight. The problem I see with this is that limiting some clothing items to 'protect from bullying' is a poor reason.

This is where I am... like dress lengths schools should seek to keep "distracting" clothing out. This is best accomplished by a reasonable uniform policy.

My kids school says blue or khaki slacks and a red or blue polo..

No dress code will stop some kids from teasing other kids.

I never said otherwise. Some clothes are less distracting than others to the student population at large.

(05-23-2016 12:58 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 12:45 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 12:35 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  It's interesting that in my time it was pretty much everything goes but the first times we were able to vote in the 80's we voted Republican (by 20 points in 1984) and were a pretty conservative lot politically and have remained so.

But since then we have steadily restricted students in schools. Dress codes, hair codes, acceptable political speech, clear backpacks, bans on aspirin, arrests for fighting, no flags, drug dogs, police on staff, locker searches.....much of it at the behest of conservative school boards.

My kids in public elementary school had a "no talking at lunch" policy in their school. You marched silently in a line to the cafeteria and then ate silently. Like a prison.

....and that generation now has an outbreak of whiny self-indulgent thoughtless crybaby social justice warriors in rebellion.

Correlation is not causation. But it is interesting that the more we try to tamp them down and make them silent worker drones, the worse the inevitable teenage rebellion seems to be. Perhaps letting them grow up free isn't actually that bad of a thing.

Conservatives isn't really about freedom. It's about retaining tradition which in and of itself is the opposite of freedom.

Conservative and liberal these days are two collections of talking-points and wedge issues that really don't actually have any philosophical underpinnings and are just designed to carve up slices of the demographics.

For example, at one time it was "conservative" to preserve the land, the environment, the wild spaces and to have an attachment to the land. Conservatism and yeoman farmer went together. Liberal was build, build, build, progress, progress.

Now its conservative to bulldoze and pave. Its conservative to push the yeoman farmer out and the corporate farm in. Environmentalism is a non-starter if it affects profits. And for liberals its okay to be a neo-luddite who wants to stifle all progress.

The two parties have essentially divided up all the wedge issues and agreed which ones they'll exploit and which ones are the other guys turf to exploit. The philosophical framework is patched together after the fact.

Then you guys fight over all of it like a game while they have drinks in the cloak room and laugh with the lobbyists.

But to the specific topic....
I personally think I would have gone crazy if my schools had been like my kid's schools.

Excellent post. I agree with you 100%.

School uniforms should be mandatory.

In my day girls had to wear dresses below their knee. Being a guy with regular sexual urges it wasn't fun. There was one teacher who would call you up front to his desk and tie a string on your belt loops if you didn't have a belt. It was just to embarrass you in front of the class because we would take it off as soon as we left his class. He had a weird habit of checking his zipper to make sure it wasn't open, sort of OCDish.

Cheerleaders didn't have those skimpy outfits either.

(05-23-2016 03:11 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  School uniforms should be mandatory.

I like these styles.

Komsomol


Red Guards

Bernies best?

(05-23-2016 11:48 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 09:39 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  I'm strangely okay with this, but not for the reason given. "skinny jeans" aren't so different that yoga pants and leggings. My girlfriend's are stretchy as hell and fit ridiculously tight. The problem I see with this is that limiting some clothing items to 'protect from bullying' is a poor reason.

This is where I am... like dress lengths schools should seek to keep "distracting" clothing out. This is best accomplished by a reasonable uniform policy.

My kids school says blue or khaki slacks and a red or blue polo..

even hattiesgulch missippy has a uniform dress code now.....shockingly, st. elizabeth had that in StL back in the 70s.....

whoody hoooo.....like it should be a big deal....

unfortunately, it is to sum......

My 7th grader was actually written up for a dress code violation the other day for wearing leggings and a very long t-shirt. So was her friend, who was wearing the same outfit but perhaps a slightly shorter t-shirt. It's crazy - there are so many kids wearing the outfits that it's impossible to single out dress code violators unless it's real obvious.

There's an 8th grader in my daughters' theater class who mooned the other students while the teacher wasn't watching, and occasionally shows boys her bra when she gets a new one - again when the teachers aren't paying attention. And she hasn't gotten in trouble, but my daughter gets written up. Crazy. And by the way, skinny jeans are fine at her school for some reason (I agree with some others that they are just as tight as leggings).

It's getting to the point that middle school and high schoolers should all wear school uniforms.