(05-20-2016 09:26 AM)elf owl Wrote:  No need to give up hope just yet. The standings show four teams one half game apart with two games to go. Baseball is a fickle game.

True. it ain't over 'til it's over.

But hope is what you rely on when you do not control your own destiny.

We need two wins, and then to keep our fingers crossed.

I wonder if our pitching staff are injured? Looks really strange.

(05-20-2016 08:03 AM)Ranger Wrote:  

(05-19-2016 11:34 PM)bobreinhold1 Wrote:  When was the last time we gave up 46 runs in three games? I'm guessing never.

What's most distressing is that pitching has been our strength. Several posters over the last week have expressed some concern over recent performance of the team, only to be belittled. Why be Chicken Little. It is only a game or two. No, it is starting to be a trend.

I am a WG fan and not a DB fan. But as I call out the football team when it plays poorly, fairness demands pointing out the failures of the baseball team.

Where have you gone Rice baseball,
Rice fans turn their lonely eyes to you,
What's that you say Joe Savery,
Rice baseball has left and gone away, hey hey hey, hey hey hey

There is a very real possibility, in fact I would say a certainty if the team does not exit its funk, that we will end up fourth in the conference.

(05-20-2016 10:22 AM)OldOwl Wrote:  I wonder if our pitching staff are injured? Looks really strange.

(05-20-2016 08:03 AM)Ranger Wrote:  

(05-19-2016 11:34 PM)bobreinhold1 Wrote:  When was the last time we gave up 46 runs in three games? I'm guessing never.

What's most distressing is that pitching has been our strength. Several posters over the last week have expressed some concern over recent performance of the team, only to be belittled. Why be Chicken Little. It is only a game or two. No, it is starting to be a trend.

I am a WG fan and not a DB fan. But as I call out the football team when it plays poorly, fairness demands pointing out the failures of the baseball team.

Where have you gone Rice baseball,
Rice fans turn their lonely eyes to you,
What's that you say Joe Savery,
Rice baseball has left and gone away, hey hey hey, hey hey hey

There is a very real possibility, in fact I would say a certainty if the team does not exit its funk, that we will end up fourth in the conference.

It does seem strange. Last week, it seemed as if everyone but Jon had contracted some strange disease. And last night he succumbed. It is not just that the pitching was a little off. It was an egregous deterioration over previous weeks.

(05-20-2016 08:48 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 08:03 AM)Ranger Wrote:  

(05-19-2016 11:34 PM)bobreinhold1 Wrote:  When was the last time we gave up 46 runs in three games? I'm guessing never.

What's most distressing is that pitching has been our strength. Several posters over the last week have expressed some concern over recent performance of the team, only to be belittled. Why be Chicken Little. It is only a game or two. No, it is starting to be a trend.

I am a WG fan and not a DB fan. But as I call out the football team when it plays poorly, fairness demands pointing out the failures of the baseball team.

Where have you gone Rice baseball,
Rice fans turn their lonely eyes to you,
What's that you say Joe Savery,
Rice baseball has left and gone away, hey hey hey, hey hey hey

There is a very real possibility, in fact I would say a certainty if the team does not exit its funk, that we will end up fourth in the conference.

Possible finishing behind a team that doesn't even have a baseball stadium... I think it's pretty clear that our edge in baseball is gone. We've discussed the recruiting issues at length on here and I think everyone agrees that something needs to be done. JP mentioned that last weekend was our first loss to FAU ever. He also mentioned before the game last night that we were 17-2? all time against LaTech who clubbed our ace pitcher last night with what is basically a JUCO team. We are still one of the best baseball programs in the country, but we aren't going to stay that way long if we continue this trend.

Just worth pointing out that we seem to expect some new building at baseball and and an EZF to somehow work wonders.

This should be the final nail in the coffin on the facilities theories and excuses.

(05-20-2016 08:28 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 08:48 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 08:03 AM)Ranger Wrote:  

(05-19-2016 11:34 PM)bobreinhold1 Wrote:  When was the last time we gave up 46 runs in three games? I'm guessing never.

What's most distressing is that pitching has been our strength. Several posters over the last week have expressed some concern over recent performance of the team, only to be belittled. Why be Chicken Little. It is only a game or two. No, it is starting to be a trend.

I am a WG fan and not a DB fan. But as I call out the football team when it plays poorly, fairness demands pointing out the failures of the baseball team.

Where have you gone Rice baseball,
Rice fans turn their lonely eyes to you,
What's that you say Joe Savery,
Rice baseball has left and gone away, hey hey hey, hey hey hey

There is a very real possibility, in fact I would say a certainty if the team does not exit its funk, that we will end up fourth in the conference.

Possible finishing behind a team that doesn't even have a baseball stadium... I think it's pretty clear that our edge in baseball is gone. We've discussed the recruiting issues at length on here and I think everyone agrees that something needs to be done. JP mentioned that last weekend was our first loss to FAU ever. He also mentioned before the game last night that we were 17-2? all time against LaTech who clubbed our ace pitcher last night with what is basically a JUCO team. We are still one of the best baseball programs in the country, but we aren't going to stay that way long if we continue this trend.

Just worth pointing out that we seem to expect some new building at baseball and and an EZF to somehow work wonders.

This should be the final nail in the coffin on the facilities theories and excuses.

You're like a terrible broken record.

(05-20-2016 10:36 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 08:28 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 08:48 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 08:03 AM)Ranger Wrote:  

(05-19-2016 11:34 PM)bobreinhold1 Wrote:  When was the last time we gave up 46 runs in three games? I'm guessing never.

What's most distressing is that pitching has been our strength. Several posters over the last week have expressed some concern over recent performance of the team, only to be belittled. Why be Chicken Little. It is only a game or two. No, it is starting to be a trend.

I am a WG fan and not a DB fan. But as I call out the football team when it plays poorly, fairness demands pointing out the failures of the baseball team.

Where have you gone Rice baseball,
Rice fans turn their lonely eyes to you,
What's that you say Joe Savery,
Rice baseball has left and gone away, hey hey hey, hey hey hey

There is a very real possibility, in fact I would say a certainty if the team does not exit its funk, that we will end up fourth in the conference.

Possible finishing behind a team that doesn't even have a baseball stadium... I think it's pretty clear that our edge in baseball is gone. We've discussed the recruiting issues at length on here and I think everyone agrees that something needs to be done. JP mentioned that last weekend was our first loss to FAU ever. He also mentioned before the game last night that we were 17-2? all time against LaTech who clubbed our ace pitcher last night with what is basically a JUCO team. We are still one of the best baseball programs in the country, but we aren't going to stay that way long if we continue this trend.

Just worth pointing out that we seem to expect some new building at baseball and and an EZF to somehow work wonders.

This should be the final nail in the coffin on the facilities theories and excuses.

You're like a terrible broken record.

Except he's right, or at least lives in reality, instead of laboring under delusions like some posters do

(05-20-2016 10:43 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 10:36 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 08:28 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 08:48 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 08:03 AM)Ranger Wrote:  What's most distressing is that pitching has been our strength. Several posters over the last week have expressed some concern over recent performance of the team, only to be belittled. Why be Chicken Little. It is only a game or two. No, it is starting to be a trend.

I am a WG fan and not a DB fan. But as I call out the football team when it plays poorly, fairness demands pointing out the failures of the baseball team.

Where have you gone Rice baseball,
Rice fans turn their lonely eyes to you,
What's that you say Joe Savery,
Rice baseball has left and gone away, hey hey hey, hey hey hey

There is a very real possibility, in fact I would say a certainty if the team does not exit its funk, that we will end up fourth in the conference.

Possible finishing behind a team that doesn't even have a baseball stadium... I think it's pretty clear that our edge in baseball is gone. We've discussed the recruiting issues at length on here and I think everyone agrees that something needs to be done. JP mentioned that last weekend was our first loss to FAU ever. He also mentioned before the game last night that we were 17-2? all time against LaTech who clubbed our ace pitcher last night with what is basically a JUCO team. We are still one of the best baseball programs in the country, but we aren't going to stay that way long if we continue this trend.

Just worth pointing out that we seem to expect some new building at baseball and and an EZF to somehow work wonders.

This should be the final nail in the coffin on the facilities theories and excuses.

You're like a terrible broken record.

Except he's right, or at least lives in reality, instead of laboring under delusions like some posters do

What reality is that?
That we shouldn't have built the end zone facility?
That it won't help with recruiting?
Tom Herman seems to think our old facilities were a big problem when he was here.

That until we find a coach who has two 10-win seasons we can't complain about 1950's facilities? That someone will have to win a conference football championship before we will have earned the right to break ground?

We need to wait until every school in the country has better facilities than us?

I haven't been involved with this EZF fuss, as. I neither think it is some miracle savior or totally worthless, but this sounds a lot like a doctor prescribing best rest, lots of water, and aspirin for something, and somebody scoffing "Bed rest? Bed rest alone won't cure this!!"

From what I heard at the Coaches Caravan, this facility will help all our sports, all 16 of them, and it seems to me that dissing the facility is dissing the AD.

Lastly, for those wanting a new coach immediately if not sooner, the EZF just makes it more likely that you will get the coach of your choice.

So why the bitching?

(05-21-2016 08:51 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I haven't been involved with this EZF fuss, as. I neither think it is some miracle savior or totally worthless, but this sounds a lot like a doctor prescribing best rest, lots of water, and aspirin for something, and somebody scoffing "Bed rest? Bed rest alone won't cure this!!"

From what I heard at the Coaches Caravan, this facility will help all our sports, all 16 of them, and it seems to me that dissing the facility is dissing the AD.

Lastly, for those wanting a new coach immediately if not sooner, the EZF just makes it more likely that you will get the coach of your choice.

So why the bitching?

Because someone has to bear the burden of being the self-described anti-mediocrity crusader.

(05-20-2016 10:58 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 10:43 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 10:36 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 08:28 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 08:48 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  Possible finishing behind a team that doesn't even have a baseball stadium... I think it's pretty clear that our edge in baseball is gone. We've discussed the recruiting issues at length on here and I think everyone agrees that something needs to be done. JP mentioned that last weekend was our first loss to FAU ever. He also mentioned before the game last night that we were 17-2? all time against LaTech who clubbed our ace pitcher last night with what is basically a JUCO team. We are still one of the best baseball programs in the country, but we aren't going to stay that way long if we continue this trend.

Just worth pointing out that we seem to expect some new building at baseball and and an EZF to somehow work wonders.

This should be the final nail in the coffin on the facilities theories and excuses.

You're like a terrible broken record.

Except he's right, or at least lives in reality, instead of laboring under delusions like some posters do

What reality is that?
That we shouldn't have built the end zone facility?
That it won't help with recruiting?
Tom Herman seems to think our old facilities were a big problem when he was here.

That until we find a coach who has two 10-win seasons we can't complain about 1950's facilities? That someone will have to win a conference football championship before we will have earned the right to break ground?

We need to wait until every school in the country has better facilities than us?

The reality that building it isn't going to make a difference to the quality of our team. And that the money would be better spent elsewhere.

Sure, building the EZF is better than not, but what's the lost opportunity cost?

The issue is not building the EZF. It's acting like it's going to somehow make Rice better. As we saw with Tudor, it didnt.

(05-21-2016 10:01 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 10:58 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 10:43 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 10:36 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 08:28 PM)Antarius Wrote:  Just worth pointing out that we seem to expect some new building at baseball and and an EZF to somehow work wonders.

This should be the final nail in the coffin on the facilities theories and excuses.

You're like a terrible broken record.

Except he's right, or at least lives in reality, instead of laboring under delusions like some posters do

What reality is that?
That we shouldn't have built the end zone facility?
That it won't help with recruiting?
Tom Herman seems to think our old facilities were a big problem when he was here.

That until we find a coach who has two 10-win seasons we can't complain about 1950's facilities? That someone will have to win a conference football championship before we will have earned the right to break ground?

We need to wait until every school in the country has better facilities than us?

The reality that building it isn't going to make a difference to the quality of our team. And that the money would be better spent elsewhere.

Sure, building the EZF is better than not, but what's the lost opportunity cost?

The issue is not building the EZF. It's acting like it's going to somehow make Rice better. As we saw with Tudor, it didnt.

If the issue is the question of if the funds could have been better spent elsewhere, that is a reasonable issue to discuss. Where do you think the money should have been spent?

If the issue is that the EZF alone would not catapult us to national prominence, I agree, but has anybody really said it would? If so, who?

From the discussion at the Coach's Caravan, it seems the EZF will help all the teams, both with better facilities and with more space, and as such it should help both the performance of those teams and recruiting for those teams. Those are hard to measure, so let's just say it can't hurt.

I don't understand why the disdain for this facility. Maybe you could explain to this latecomer to the debate.

(05-21-2016 10:14 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-21-2016 10:01 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 10:58 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 10:43 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 10:36 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  You're like a terrible broken record.

Except he's right, or at least lives in reality, instead of laboring under delusions like some posters do

What reality is that?
That we shouldn't have built the end zone facility?
That it won't help with recruiting?
Tom Herman seems to think our old facilities were a big problem when he was here.

That until we find a coach who has two 10-win seasons we can't complain about 1950's facilities? That someone will have to win a conference football championship before we will have earned the right to break ground?

We need to wait until every school in the country has better facilities than us?

The reality that building it isn't going to make a difference to the quality of our team. And that the money would be better spent elsewhere.

Sure, building the EZF is better than not, but what's the lost opportunity cost?

The issue is not building the EZF. It's acting like it's going to somehow make Rice better. As we saw with Tudor, it didnt.

If the issue is the question of if the funds could have been better spent elsewhere, that is a reasonable issue to discuss. Where do you think the money should have been spent?

If the issue is that the EZF alone would not catapult us to national prominence, I agree, but has anybody really said it would? If so, who?

From the discussion at the Coach's Caravan, it seems the EZF will help all the teams, both with better facilities and with more space, and as such it should help both the performance of those teams and recruiting for those teams. Those are hard to measure, so let's just say it can't hurt.

I don't understand why the disdain for this facility. Maybe you could explain to this latecomer to the debate.

Its less national prominence and more claims that it warrants giving Bailiff more time or that it will have a sizable impact on our program.

There are a littany of data points that show facilities make a negligible difference to a bad or mediocre program. I cannot think of a counter example even, one where a program mired in failure somehow gets a big boost from a new building.

So yes, the disdain is towards the expectations. I am perfectly fine with the building and am glad we have it, but do not anticipate it having much impact. And if the EZF resulted in us not firing our coaching staff, it actually hurt us.

If you want examples of people pinning hopes on the EZF, just do a cursory search. They are dime-a-dozen.

(05-21-2016 08:26 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(05-21-2016 10:14 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-21-2016 10:01 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 10:58 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 10:43 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  Except he's right, or at least lives in reality, instead of laboring under delusions like some posters do

What reality is that?
That we shouldn't have built the end zone facility?
That it won't help with recruiting?
Tom Herman seems to think our old facilities were a big problem when he was here.

That until we find a coach who has two 10-win seasons we can't complain about 1950's facilities? That someone will have to win a conference football championship before we will have earned the right to break ground?

We need to wait until every school in the country has better facilities than us?

The reality that building it isn't going to make a difference to the quality of our team. And that the money would be better spent elsewhere.

Sure, building the EZF is better than not, but what's the lost opportunity cost?

The issue is not building the EZF. It's acting like it's going to somehow make Rice better. As we saw with Tudor, it didnt.

If the issue is the question of if the funds could have been better spent elsewhere, that is a reasonable issue to discuss. Where do you think the money should have been spent?

If the issue is that the EZF alone would not catapult us to national prominence, I agree, but has anybody really said it would? If so, who?

From the discussion at the Coach's Caravan, it seems the EZF will help all the teams, both with better facilities and with more space, and as such it should help both the performance of those teams and recruiting for those teams. Those are hard to measure, so let's just say it can't hurt.

I don't understand why the disdain for this facility. Maybe you could explain to this latecomer to the debate.

Its less national prominence and more claims that it warrants giving Bailiff more time or that it will have a sizable impact on our program.

There are a littany of data points that show facilities make a negligible difference to a bad or mediocre program. I cannot think of a counter example even, one where a program mired in failure somehow gets a big boost from a new building.

So yes, the disdain is towards the expectations. I am perfectly fine with the building and am glad we have it, but do not anticipate it having much impact. And if the EZF resulted in us not firing our coaching staff, it actually hurt us.

If you want examples of people pinning hopes on the EZF, just do a cursory search. They are dime-a-dozen.

If they are a dime a dozen, just give me a nickel's worth. My experience with you and the other most dissatisfied makes me doubt that that what seems obvious to you would be obvious to me, unless it is a quote saying "we are pinning our hopes on the EZF, build it and the BIG12 will come".

At the Coach's Caravan, there were numerous references to how the facility would help our athletes in various sports, and no doubt something shiny to show recruits will help recruiting, but AFAIK, nobody thinks the EZF is the whole stew - maybe just the salt.

As for it being a reason for keeping Bailiff, I don't see the connection. But I do know the next coach will be glad to see it at that end of the stadium rather than a bunch of aging wooden benches, and maybe it will tip the balance in favor of us getting a miracle worker instead of just another coach.

Things like the EZF may be necessary, but clearly not sufficient, to achieve success. SMU made major facility improvements 20 years ago, and they've been through 4 head coaches--Cavan, Bennett, Jones, Morris--without getting things turned around, except for brief patches here and there. TCU has made major facilities improvements as well, but TCU has also had Gary Patterson. I think the head coach is far more important than the facility.

If the EZF helps us land even just 3 targeted recruits a year that we would've lost in the past, it will help whomever we have coaching, including Bailiff. The fact that Bailiff tends to have better results when he has better talent is also true of any coach. But 2008 and 2012-14 have shown that when we have players capable of making NFL rosters on the team, we have a pretty good shot at having a good season.

The better our recruiting, the better our chances of pulling in the players that will develop into NFL talent.

True for any coach.

(05-21-2016 09:29 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  If the EZF helps us land even just 3 targeted recruits a year that we would've lost in the past, it will help whomever we have coaching, including Bailiff. The fact that Bailiff tends to have better results when he has better talent is also true of any coach. But 2008 and 2012-14 have shown that when we have players capable of making NFL rosters on the team, we have a pretty good shot at having a good season.

The better our recruiting, the better our chances of pulling in the players that will develop into NFL talent.

True for any coach.

And that's not true either.

Look at the NFL and see how many stacked teams with high touted recruits or free agents manage to spectacularly squander that talent.

Sure, we may get 3 more recruits, but given that underachieving and misuing talent is the hallmark of Bailiff, let's not pretend that 3 better recruits results in a significant difference.

This is a team that failed to execute the option pitch multiple times last year with a 5th year QB. Lack of talent isn't our biggest issues, not by a long shot.

In summary, the EZF is inconsequential to the direction of the program. Much like Tudor and Apogee at UNT and Yulman at Tulane, the stadium simply doesn't matter.

We keep dicking around waiting for Bailiff to reap the 3 better recruits rewards and we may as well move to D3 because we aren't on a trajectory to be worth a damn by the next realignment.

Finally, unless anyone has any data points to the contrary this discussion should be over

You seem to think that others think it is a driver, and your whole point is that isn't.

I gues if anybody thought that way, you would have refuted them.

My opinion, it is a pice of the puzzle, no more, and there is no down side to having it.

I think Rick's point is valid , and it doesn't matter who is coach. there is just no way the EZF makes us get worse recruits.

We talked about needing to upgrade the weight room, the locker room, the bathrooms, but all of a sudden somehow upgrading our facilities is a bad thing? I just don't see it. If there is somebody out there saying this is all we need, I will join you in telling them they are crazy, but first I need to hear somebody say that.

(05-21-2016 11:14 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  You seem to think that others think it is a driver, and your whole point is that isn't.
I gues if anybody thought that way, you would have refuted them.
My opinion, it is a pice of the puzzle, no more, and there is no down side to having it.
I think Rick's point is valid , and it doesn't matter who is coach. there is just no way the EZF makes us get worse recruits.
We talked about needing to upgrade the weight room, the locker room, the bathrooms, but all of a sudden somehow upgrading our facilities is a bad thing? I just don't see it. If there is somebody out there saying this is all we need, I will join you in telling them they are crazy, but first I need to hear somebody say that.

I think this is the proper view. It's a piece of the puzzle, there's no down side to having it, but it's not going to be transformative.

We just perhaps watched the last bricks hit the ground in the fall of the Rice baseball empire, and we are dumping on Bailiff?