(05-17-2016 12:23 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  In order to be considered a part of the South, you must agree with and publicly uphold the tenets dictated by the elites. Those tenets are that men should really run things, minorities should keep their mouths shut and know their places, fundamentalism is the moral arbiter, and new ideas aren't welcome.

Tom, I grew up in a small town in the south, or more properly out in the country near there. I'm sure you know exactly which one. I'd say that exactly none of those things were true there.

I will agree that there are places in the south where those things would have been true at one time, maybe even when you were growing up, although I don't know your age. But there are plenty of places where they were not true then, and even more where they are not true now.

There are places where those things are still true. On US-59, between Nacogdoches and Garrison, TX, flies the largest confederate flag that I have ever seen anywhere. I'm pretty sure that characterization would fit the guy who flies that flag. And I know other places where it probably still fits too. But to express it as the kind of all-encompassing generalization that you are making is entirely inaccurate and inappropriate.

One thing for sure, my parents' house was one place where none of those things were ever true, not even remotely close.

I still put Confederate flags on my relatives graves. Thankfully they arent buried in a VA cemetery, so I still have the right to express myself in this way for now.

I also have paintings of General Cleburne and the Battle of Pea Ridge on my den wall complete with Confederate flags.

The African-American girl who is dating a friend's son and spent the weekend with us last weekend seemed to pick up fairly quickly that this did not make us racists and a good time was had by all.

Hopefully this offends everyone that needs to be offended by it.











Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

(05-19-2016 03:07 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-17-2016 12:23 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  In order to be considered a part of the South, you must agree with and publicly uphold the tenets dictated by the elites. Those tenets are that men should really run things, minorities should keep their mouths shut and know their places, fundamentalism is the moral arbiter, and new ideas aren't welcome.

Tom, I grew up in a small town in the south, or more properly out in the country near there. I'm sure you know exactly which one. I'd say that exactly none of those things were true there.

I will agree that there are places in the south where those things would have been true at one time, maybe even when you were growing up, although I don't know your age. But there are plenty of places where they were not true then, and even more where they are not true now.

There are places where those things are still true. On US-59, between Nacogdoches and Garrison, TX, flies the largest confederate flag that I have ever seen anywhere. I'm pretty sure that characterization would fit the guy who flies that flag. And I know other places where it probably still fits too. But to express it as the kind of all-encompassing generalization that you are making is entirely inaccurate and inappropriate.

One thing for sure, my parents' house was one place where none of those things were ever true, not even remotely close.

The real issue is that even if one disagreed with the elites, you're expected to keep that opinion to yourself.

I'd argue that someone who was politically a supporter of Barack Obama, or who publicly supported Gay rights, etc., would experience some level of business or social disapproval as a result of that.

I'd be surprised if there was a bunch of Confederate symbols being bandied about (that's just considered usually tacky), but rather just a society where virtually everyone parrots the line coming from right wing radio or if they disagree, keeps their mouths shut.

By the way, we sold most of the farm last year.

(05-19-2016 02:55 PM)Dawgxas Wrote:  

(05-17-2016 12:23 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-17-2016 11:04 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Good read on why the GOP is failing.


"Ronald Reagan and other Republican elites would leverage Atwater’s approach to winning white voters and elections. To point, Reagan began his 1980 presidential campaign in Philadelphia, Mississippi, the locale where American civil rights freedom fighters Andrew Goodman, Michael Schwerner and James Chaney were killed by white racial terrorists. In that speech, Reagan signaled to the ghosts of Jim and Jane Crow and the neo-Confederacy by stating his support for “states’ rights.”

Reagan would continue to use overt and coded racial appeals to gin up white support through his references to a “lazy,” “violent” and “parasitic” class of black Americans who he described as “welfare queens” and “strapping bucks.” George Bush would continue with the Southern Strategy when he summoned up white racist stereotypes and fears of “the black beast rapist” in the form of Willie Horton during the 1988 presidential election.

The Age of Obama witnessed an explosion of anti-black racism by the Republican Party and conservatives en masse. Birtherism, the rise of the Tea Party, the use of antebellum language (which was used to defend the Southern slaveocracy) such as “secession” and “nullification”, both overt and coded racist invective by Republican officials and news media, and a pattern of disrespect towards both the idea and literal personhood of Barack Obama as the United States’ first black president has been the norm. This deluge of anti-black animus towards Barack Obama does not exist in a separate universe outside of American society: it has real impact on the values and behavior of citizens."

Link

I try to tell people looking for an understanding of the politics of Southern Whites that calling it all racism misses the point. For sure, the racism is there, but its really more tribal than anything else. Its about position in society. They feel humiliated because the Conservative South isn't considered to be innovative or successful and everyone knows it. And 20 years of hard right economics hasn't moved the needle.

The real issue is that the Conservative South (excluding Southern Florida, Yankee infused Raleigh, etc.,) remains economically backwards and will likely remain so. They passed a billion tax cuts and many cases paid companies to move there. But the economic development that was supposed to follow never did. Sure, they got some 40k a year manufacturing jobs, but precious few of the 100-200k corporate office jobs. New technologies rarely come from the Conservative South.

In order to be considered a part of the South, you must agree with and publicly uphold the tenets dictated by the elites. Those tenets are that men should really run things, minorities should keep their mouths shut and know their places, fundamentalism is the moral arbiter, and new ideas aren't welcome.

Sorry Tom that's just total Stereotypical crap. Have you ever been to Dallas, Houston, NW Arkansas? Sure they are those stereotypes that you mentioned in smaller towns but they are many innovative areas of the South

Ive lived in Houston for close to 15 years. I spent 20 years living in Alabama.

NW Arkansas isn't a leader in innovative technologies, but rather of mature ones. Houston is a leader largely of commodity trading (I work in that industry).

Texas is Texas. Its a different game entirely. Both Houston and Dallas voted for Obama, twice.

(05-19-2016 07:03 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-19-2016 03:07 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-17-2016 12:23 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  In order to be considered a part of the South, you must agree with and publicly uphold the tenets dictated by the elites. Those tenets are that men should really run things, minorities should keep their mouths shut and know their places, fundamentalism is the moral arbiter, and new ideas aren't welcome.

Tom, I grew up in a small town in the south, or more properly out in the country near there. I'm sure you know exactly which one. I'd say that exactly none of those things were true there.

I will agree that there are places in the south where those things would have been true at one time, maybe even when you were growing up, although I don't know your age. But there are plenty of places where they were not true then, and even more where they are not true now.

There are places where those things are still true. On US-59, between Nacogdoches and Garrison, TX, flies the largest confederate flag that I have ever seen anywhere. I'm pretty sure that characterization would fit the guy who flies that flag. And I know other places where it probably still fits too. But to express it as the kind of all-encompassing generalization that you are making is entirely inaccurate and inappropriate.

One thing for sure, my parents' house was one place where none of those things were ever true, not even remotely close.

The real issue is that even if one disagreed with the elites, you're expected to keep that opinion to yourself.

I'd argue that someone who was politically a supporter of Barack Obama, or who publicly supported Gay rights, etc., would experience some level of business or social disapproval as a result of that.

I'd be surprised if there was a bunch of Confederate symbols being bandied about (that's just considered usually tacky), but rather just a society where virtually everyone parrots the line coming from right wing radio or if they disagree, keeps their mouths shut.

By the way, we sold most of the farm last year.

Not sure who you hung around with but I know very few Southerners of any class who are afraid of speaking their mind because of some mysterious "elite".

I think you may have it in your mind that the majority of people just can't really hold views that don't match yours...so there must be some sort of mysterious force or imbedded social convention that prevents them from thinking and speaking right....like you.

Now I know "WGAS" about personal anecdotes and they make some posters cry, but nonetheless I happen to be opposed to the death penalty....a very minority opinion. I have not ever been skeert to mention that fact in the South out of fear of "social disaproval".

You are going to have to go into some more detail about this deal because I'm real skeptical.

(05-19-2016 07:51 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(05-19-2016 07:03 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-19-2016 03:07 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-17-2016 12:23 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  In order to be considered a part of the South, you must agree with and publicly uphold the tenets dictated by the elites. Those tenets are that men should really run things, minorities should keep their mouths shut and know their places, fundamentalism is the moral arbiter, and new ideas aren't welcome.

Tom, I grew up in a small town in the south, or more properly out in the country near there. I'm sure you know exactly which one. I'd say that exactly none of those things were true there.

I will agree that there are places in the south where those things would have been true at one time, maybe even when you were growing up, although I don't know your age. But there are plenty of places where they were not true then, and even more where they are not true now.

There are places where those things are still true. On US-59, between Nacogdoches and Garrison, TX, flies the largest confederate flag that I have ever seen anywhere. I'm pretty sure that characterization would fit the guy who flies that flag. And I know other places where it probably still fits too. But to express it as the kind of all-encompassing generalization that you are making is entirely inaccurate and inappropriate.

One thing for sure, my parents' house was one place where none of those things were ever true, not even remotely close.

The real issue is that even if one disagreed with the elites, you're expected to keep that opinion to yourself.

I'd argue that someone who was politically a supporter of Barack Obama, or who publicly supported Gay rights, etc., would experience some level of business or social disapproval as a result of that.

I'd be surprised if there was a bunch of Confederate symbols being bandied about (that's just considered usually tacky), but rather just a society where virtually everyone parrots the line coming from right wing radio or if they disagree, keeps their mouths shut.

By the way, we sold most of the farm last year.

Not sure who you hung around with but I know very few Southerners of any class who are afraid of speaking their mind because of some mysterious "elite".

I think you may have it in your mind that the majority of people just can't really hold views that don't match yours...so there must be some sort of mysterious force or imbedded social convention that prevents them from thinking and speaking right....like you.

Now I know "WGAS" about personal anecdotes and they make some posters cry, but nonetheless I happen to be opposed to the death penalty....a very minority opinion. I have not ever been skeert to mention that fact in the South out of fear of "social disaproval".

You are going to have to go into some more detail about this deal because I'm real skeptical.

Try publicly supporting a liberal Democrat for office citing your support for Death Penalty repeal. You'll feel the backlash real quick. Or sponsor a Syrian refugee family in town. Or advocate that the First Baptist Church not receive taxpayer funding or support for the Minister's mansion.

Will they burn your house down? Not likely. But you'll feel it. Its subtle, but its there.

---

The Death Penalty hasn't been the 'issue du jour' for the Angry White Southerners in 25 years.

---

The backlash happens when you defy convention on the 'hot button issue of the day'. Or you happen to be the target of that convention.

---

Again, if the South is so welcoming of others, then why does just about anyone who is different leave as soon as they can? And why don't others move there in significant numbers?

If you think the South just has a PR problem, and they really don't hate Gays, Mexicans, Transgendered persons, Blacks, Muslims, Athiests, Secularists, and Free Thinkers, then you might want to take it up with your GOP elected officials, whom seem to be doing everything possible to reinforce that perception of the Deep South.

---

Either way, I have posited my opinion as to how to explain the Deep South's love of Donald Trump (over native sons and those that would, otherwise, seem to be much better matches).

It boils down to this. Trump gives White Southerners pure, raw, unadulterated anger. They don't want Mike Huckabee's smiling extremism. They don't want Rand Paul's optimistic libertarianism. They want ANGER. Anger at someone else.

And Trump gives them what they want.

(05-20-2016 10:22 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-19-2016 07:51 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(05-19-2016 07:03 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-19-2016 03:07 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-17-2016 12:23 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  In order to be considered a part of the South, you must agree with and publicly uphold the tenets dictated by the elites. Those tenets are that men should really run things, minorities should keep their mouths shut and know their places, fundamentalism is the moral arbiter, and new ideas aren't welcome.

Tom, I grew up in a small town in the south, or more properly out in the country near there. I'm sure you know exactly which one. I'd say that exactly none of those things were true there.

I will agree that there are places in the south where those things would have been true at one time, maybe even when you were growing up, although I don't know your age. But there are plenty of places where they were not true then, and even more where they are not true now.

There are places where those things are still true. On US-59, between Nacogdoches and Garrison, TX, flies the largest confederate flag that I have ever seen anywhere. I'm pretty sure that characterization would fit the guy who flies that flag. And I know other places where it probably still fits too. But to express it as the kind of all-encompassing generalization that you are making is entirely inaccurate and inappropriate.

One thing for sure, my parents' house was one place where none of those things were ever true, not even remotely close.

The real issue is that even if one disagreed with the elites, you're expected to keep that opinion to yourself.

I'd argue that someone who was politically a supporter of Barack Obama, or who publicly supported Gay rights, etc., would experience some level of business or social disapproval as a result of that.

I'd be surprised if there was a bunch of Confederate symbols being bandied about (that's just considered usually tacky), but rather just a society where virtually everyone parrots the line coming from right wing radio or if they disagree, keeps their mouths shut.

By the way, we sold most of the farm last year.

Not sure who you hung around with but I know very few Southerners of any class who are afraid of speaking their mind because of some mysterious "elite".

I think you may have it in your mind that the majority of people just can't really hold views that don't match yours...so there must be some sort of mysterious force or imbedded social convention that prevents them from thinking and speaking right....like you.

Now I know "WGAS" about personal anecdotes and they make some posters cry, but nonetheless I happen to be opposed to the death penalty....a very minority opinion. I have not ever been skeert to mention that fact in the South out of fear of "social disaproval".

You are going to have to go into some more detail about this deal because I'm real skeptical.

Try publicly supporting a liberal Democrat for office citing your support for Death Penalty repeal. You'll feel the backlash real quick. Or sponsor a Syrian refugee family in town. Or advocate that the First Baptist Church not receive taxpayer funding or support for the Minister's mansion.

Will they burn your house down? Not likely. But you'll feel it. Its subtle, but its there.

---

The Death Penalty hasn't been the 'issue du jour' for the Angry White Southerners in 25 years.

---

The backlash happens when you defy convention on the 'hot button issue of the day'. Or you happen to be the target of that convention.

---

Again, if the South is so welcoming of others, then why does just about anyone who is different leave as soon as they can? And why don't others move there in significant numbers?

If you think the South just has a PR problem, and they really don't hate Gays, Mexicans, Transgendered persons, Blacks, Muslims, Athiests, Secularists, and Free Thinkers, then you might want to take it up with your GOP elected officials, whom seem to be doing everything possible to reinforce that perception of the Deep South.

---

Either way, I have posited my opinion as to how to explain the Deep South's love of Donald Trump (over native sons and those that would, otherwise, seem to be much better matches).

It boils down to this. Trump gives White Southerners pure, raw, unadulterated anger. They don't want Mike Huckabee's smiling extremism. They don't want Rand Paul's optimistic libertarianism. They want ANGER. Anger at someone else.

And Trump gives them what they want.

I can't stand a popular local Republican office holder. I say so. I've never had an issue with saying so. Vocally.

Do people state their disagreement with me? Yep. Mine is a minority view. But they do that in New York too.

Your problem is that your positions are not the majority. So you hear a lot of disagreement. You interpret this as people in the region being mean...or stupid...or hateful...or puppets of a malevolent force because they don't share your "advanced" views.

People are supporting Trump because the people running the Republican party have been lying do-nothing mercenary politicians who make a regular practice of caving to the slightest pressure.

You have a pre-programmed social narrative based on race and liberal ideology and you have to fit Trump and everyone else into it...that doesn't make it true.

(05-20-2016 10:22 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-19-2016 07:51 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(05-19-2016 07:03 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-19-2016 03:07 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-17-2016 12:23 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  In order to be considered a part of the South, you must agree with and publicly uphold the tenets dictated by the elites. Those tenets are that men should really run things, minorities should keep their mouths shut and know their places, fundamentalism is the moral arbiter, and new ideas aren't welcome.

Tom, I grew up in a small town in the south, or more properly out in the country near there. I'm sure you know exactly which one. I'd say that exactly none of those things were true there.

I will agree that there are places in the south where those things would have been true at one time, maybe even when you were growing up, although I don't know your age. But there are plenty of places where they were not true then, and even more where they are not true now.

There are places where those things are still true. On US-59, between Nacogdoches and Garrison, TX, flies the largest confederate flag that I have ever seen anywhere. I'm pretty sure that characterization would fit the guy who flies that flag. And I know other places where it probably still fits too. But to express it as the kind of all-encompassing generalization that you are making is entirely inaccurate and inappropriate.

One thing for sure, my parents' house was one place where none of those things were ever true, not even remotely close.

The real issue is that even if one disagreed with the elites, you're expected to keep that opinion to yourself.

I'd argue that someone who was politically a supporter of Barack Obama, or who publicly supported Gay rights, etc., would experience some level of business or social disapproval as a result of that.

I'd be surprised if there was a bunch of Confederate symbols being bandied about (that's just considered usually tacky), but rather just a society where virtually everyone parrots the line coming from right wing radio or if they disagree, keeps their mouths shut.

By the way, we sold most of the farm last year.

Not sure who you hung around with but I know very few Southerners of any class who are afraid of speaking their mind because of some mysterious "elite".

I think you may have it in your mind that the majority of people just can't really hold views that don't match yours...so there must be some sort of mysterious force or imbedded social convention that prevents them from thinking and speaking right....like you.

Now I know "WGAS" about personal anecdotes and they make some posters cry, but nonetheless I happen to be opposed to the death penalty....a very minority opinion. I have not ever been skeert to mention that fact in the South out of fear of "social disaproval".

You are going to have to go into some more detail about this deal because I'm real skeptical.

Try publicly supporting a liberal Democrat for office citing your support for Death Penalty repeal. You'll feel the backlash real quick. Or sponsor a Syrian refugee family in town. Or advocate that the First Baptist Church not receive taxpayer funding or support for the Minister's mansion.

Will they burn your house down? Not likely. But you'll feel it. Its subtle, but its there.

---

The Death Penalty hasn't been the 'issue du jour' for the Angry White Southerners in 25 years.

---

The backlash happens when you defy convention on the 'hot button issue of the day'. Or you happen to be the target of that convention.

---

Again, if the South is so welcoming of others, then why does just about anyone who is different leave as soon as they can? And why don't others move there in significant numbers?

If you think the South just has a PR problem, and they really don't hate Gays, Mexicans, Transgendered persons, Blacks, Muslims, Athiests, Secularists, and Free Thinkers, then you might want to take it up with your GOP elected officials, whom seem to be doing everything possible to reinforce that perception of the Deep South.

---

Either way, I have posited my opinion as to how to explain the Deep South's love of Donald Trump (over native sons and those that would, otherwise, seem to be much better matches).

It boils down to this. Trump gives White Southerners pure, raw, unadulterated anger. They don't want Mike Huckabee's smiling extremism. They don't want Rand Paul's optimistic libertarianism. They want ANGER. Anger at someone else.

And Trump gives them what they want.

You are absolutely right. This is why they don't care that there isn't any substance behind his policies because all they care about is the anger.

Their life sucks and they want to blame someone for it.

(05-20-2016 10:58 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 10:22 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-19-2016 07:51 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(05-19-2016 07:03 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-19-2016 03:07 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Tom, I grew up in a small town in the south, or more properly out in the country near there. I'm sure you know exactly which one. I'd say that exactly none of those things were true there.

I will agree that there are places in the south where those things would have been true at one time, maybe even when you were growing up, although I don't know your age. But there are plenty of places where they were not true then, and even more where they are not true now.

There are places where those things are still true. On US-59, between Nacogdoches and Garrison, TX, flies the largest confederate flag that I have ever seen anywhere. I'm pretty sure that characterization would fit the guy who flies that flag. And I know other places where it probably still fits too. But to express it as the kind of all-encompassing generalization that you are making is entirely inaccurate and inappropriate.

One thing for sure, my parents' house was one place where none of those things were ever true, not even remotely close.

The real issue is that even if one disagreed with the elites, you're expected to keep that opinion to yourself.

I'd argue that someone who was politically a supporter of Barack Obama, or who publicly supported Gay rights, etc., would experience some level of business or social disapproval as a result of that.

I'd be surprised if there was a bunch of Confederate symbols being bandied about (that's just considered usually tacky), but rather just a society where virtually everyone parrots the line coming from right wing radio or if they disagree, keeps their mouths shut.

By the way, we sold most of the farm last year.

Not sure who you hung around with but I know very few Southerners of any class who are afraid of speaking their mind because of some mysterious "elite".

I think you may have it in your mind that the majority of people just can't really hold views that don't match yours...so there must be some sort of mysterious force or imbedded social convention that prevents them from thinking and speaking right....like you.

Now I know "WGAS" about personal anecdotes and they make some posters cry, but nonetheless I happen to be opposed to the death penalty....a very minority opinion. I have not ever been skeert to mention that fact in the South out of fear of "social disaproval".

You are going to have to go into some more detail about this deal because I'm real skeptical.

Try publicly supporting a liberal Democrat for office citing your support for Death Penalty repeal. You'll feel the backlash real quick. Or sponsor a Syrian refugee family in town. Or advocate that the First Baptist Church not receive taxpayer funding or support for the Minister's mansion.

Will they burn your house down? Not likely. But you'll feel it. Its subtle, but its there.

---

The Death Penalty hasn't been the 'issue du jour' for the Angry White Southerners in 25 years.

---

The backlash happens when you defy convention on the 'hot button issue of the day'. Or you happen to be the target of that convention.

---

Again, if the South is so welcoming of others, then why does just about anyone who is different leave as soon as they can? And why don't others move there in significant numbers?

If you think the South just has a PR problem, and they really don't hate Gays, Mexicans, Transgendered persons, Blacks, Muslims, Athiests, Secularists, and Free Thinkers, then you might want to take it up with your GOP elected officials, whom seem to be doing everything possible to reinforce that perception of the Deep South.

---

Either way, I have posited my opinion as to how to explain the Deep South's love of Donald Trump (over native sons and those that would, otherwise, seem to be much better matches).

It boils down to this. Trump gives White Southerners pure, raw, unadulterated anger. They don't want Mike Huckabee's smiling extremism. They don't want Rand Paul's optimistic libertarianism. They want ANGER. Anger at someone else.

And Trump gives them what they want.

You are absolutely right. This is why they don't care that there isn't any substance behind his policies because all they care about is the anger.

Their life sucks and they want to blame someone for it.

Same crap the Republican establishment said to themselves...and the reason that they never said, or did, the right things to prevent him getting the nomination.

They couldn't beat him because they convinced themselves of a false narrative about his supporters.

It caused them to do the exact opposite of what they should have done. They sprayed gas on his fire.

Good luck with your version of it.

(05-20-2016 10:22 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Try publicly supporting a liberal Democrat for office citing your support for Death Penalty repeal. You'll feel the backlash real quick. Or sponsor a Syrian refugee family in town. Or advocate that the First Baptist Church not receive taxpayer funding or support for the Minister's mansion.

Will they burn your house down? Not likely. But you'll feel it. Its subtle, but its there.

Projection. How you translate verbal disagreement into a crime because someone feels uncomfortable is why the nation appears so fractured. You cannot legislate emotions.

Quote:Again, if the South is so welcoming of others, then why does just about anyone who is different leave as soon as they can? And why don't others move there in significant numbers?

If you think the South just has a PR problem, and they really don't hate Gays, Mexicans, Transgendered persons, Blacks, Muslims, Athiests, Secularists, and Free Thinkers, then you might want to take it up with your GOP elected officials, whom seem to be doing everything possible to reinforce that perception of the Deep South.

You are clearly ignoring the US population shifts if you don't think scores of the above listed haven't moved to the South in the past 20 years. And they are projected to continue that trend for another 10 at least.

Quote:

Either way, I have posited my opinion as to how to explain the Deep South's love of Donald Trump (over native sons and those that would, otherwise, seem to be much better matches).

It boils down to this. Trump gives White Southerners pure, raw, unadulterated anger. They don't want Mike Huckabee's smiling extremism. They don't want Rand Paul's optimistic libertarianism. They want ANGER. Anger at someone else.

And Trump gives them what they want.

He gives their unadulterated anger voice to be sure. But not for the reasons you mentioned. Trump's ability to be authentic and say what feels without censure is his real draw. Because no one wants to be marginalized and labelled with an -ism simply for offering up a disagreement.

(05-20-2016 01:41 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 10:22 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Try publicly supporting a liberal Democrat for office citing your support for Death Penalty repeal. You'll feel the backlash real quick. Or sponsor a Syrian refugee family in town. Or advocate that the First Baptist Church not receive taxpayer funding or support for the Minister's mansion.

Will they burn your house down? Not likely. But you'll feel it. Its subtle, but its there.

Projection. How you translate verbal disagreement into a crime because someone feels uncomfortable is why the nation appears so fractured. You cannot legislate emotions.

Quote:Again, if the South is so welcoming of others, then why does just about anyone who is different leave as soon as they can? And why don't others move there in significant numbers?

If you think the South just has a PR problem, and they really don't hate Gays, Mexicans, Transgendered persons, Blacks, Muslims, Athiests, Secularists, and Free Thinkers, then you might want to take it up with your GOP elected officials, whom seem to be doing everything possible to reinforce that perception of the Deep South.

You are clearly ignoring the US population shifts if you don't think scores of the above listed haven't moved to the South in the past 20 years. And they are projected to continue that trend for another 10 at least.

Quote:

Either way, I have posited my opinion as to how to explain the Deep South's love of Donald Trump (over native sons and those that would, otherwise, seem to be much better matches).

It boils down to this. Trump gives White Southerners pure, raw, unadulterated anger. They don't want Mike Huckabee's smiling extremism. They don't want Rand Paul's optimistic libertarianism. They want ANGER. Anger at someone else.

And Trump gives them what they want.

He gives their unadulterated anger voice to be sure. But not for the reasons you mentioned. Trump's ability to be authentic and say what feels without censure is his real draw. Because no one wants to be marginalized and labelled with an -ism simply for offering up a disagreement.

I agree with this too. The problem is thst there isn't anything else yet. Lots of appeal for whatever but no substance.

(05-20-2016 10:22 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Again, if the South is so welcoming of others, then why does just about anyone who is different leave as soon as they can? And why don't others move there in significant numbers?

If you think the South just has a PR problem, and they really don't hate Gays, Mexicans, Transgendered persons, Blacks, Muslims, Athiests, Secularists, and Free Thinkers, then you might want to take it up with your GOP elected officials, whom seem to be doing everything possible to reinforce that perception of the Deep South.

...huh?????

Please explain New Orleans, which is one of the most culturally diverse cities on Earth and is home to an ultra-liberal university like Tulane.

Please explain Atlanta, which recruits nationally for talented professionals. They have yet another gifted ultra-liberal university in Emory. Oh, and GT is in that same exact city and they pull kids nationally to come there and study in STEM fields.

Please explain Tampa Bay/St. Pete, which is in the heart of the South but might as well be in Mid-Atlantic region if you consider the attitudes of the people there.

What are you even talking about?

(05-19-2016 12:17 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(05-18-2016 11:03 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-18-2016 05:07 PM)dfarr Wrote:  

(05-18-2016 09:40 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-18-2016 07:42 AM)dfarr Wrote:  Native Alabamian here and I'd disagree. While our elected officials are a bunch of morons, the actual people here are great. I know that my family has prospered here and we didn't inherit anything. One grandfather was a Midwestern transplant veterinarian, the other a forester. My dad is a cpa and my mom a nurse. I know that my career wouldn't be as good if it weren't for UAB hospital.

As for Tim Cook "leaving" Alabama, he's a computer guy who started with IBM out of college, and Alabama was never a tech state so he had to move elsewhere.

Yes, you want to stay in Alabama or Mississippi, be reasonably successful, and didn't start life off with a trust fund that was filled with checks labelled "Timber Company", there is a small path for you. You can be a doctor. But there's a very limited number of slots for those jobs. That's not going to transform either state.

As far as the legal or CPA professions go, that's also pretty limited too. Basically there's one small pot of money/economic activity in the state. It's not growing as fast as elsewhere. From what I've heard, the legal profession is stagnant too as there are lower numbers of businesses that require their services as consolidation takes place outside of the state. where people do the lower end manufacturing or servicing of other businesses. Sure there are a few outliers, like CPSI in Mobile, but those are rather small. Oh, certainly someone can make money in Alabama. But its like pulling an inside straight on the last turn of the card in poker.

The world has fundamentally changed. And those that don't innovate will face increasing competition from other states and from other countries. Trying to stop this process is like King Canute trying to stop the tide. The Deep South could compete in the innovative economy if it only wanted to. But at some level, it really doesn't. But the cost of that refusal to compete is stagnation. And economic impotence/irrelevance. And that impotence is something that makes the Deep Southern whites very angry. They're accustomed to a world where they're never challenged.

And they really hate it when their culture is mocked or ignored. That's really kind of the Chick-Fil-A example. But if you looked at those lines, you'd see that it was really only one group circling the wagons around one of their own.

---

Trump's campaign style, which is angry, panders exclusively to one group, blames everyone else for their problems, and provides zero solutions to any issues is a very good fit with the dominant political culture in Alabama. That's why the GOP in the South has been very supportive of Trump. And Trump's language is a pantomime of right wing radio. Very consistent with the dominant Southern political discourse. Again, its not completely about race. Its about validating their victimhood.

But what works in Germantown TN, or Shelby County, AL or Madison, MS is politically toxic in many other places.

Does anyone think that Trump is going to bring the Banks back to Birmingham? Nope. How about building that wall? All that will do is hurt Alabama's farmers. How is Trump going to help Alabama be 'great'? What kind of trade deal, as of now unspecified by Trump, would actually help Alabama? Trump isn't going to give Alabama anything other than validation of anger.

The GOP has been dominant in Alabama for 20 years now. How's that working out? Sure, there are a few new manufacturing businesses (usually paid for by massive tax incentives to those companies locating there). But your kids still usually have to leave to find careers if they aspire to be something more than a factory worker. By the way, South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana are in the top 10 in unemployment and the bottom 10 in per capita income. And per capita income in the South has been stagnant for the last 20 years.

Funny, I can't think of any of my friends from high school who are factory workers, including the ones who still live here. My dad makes six figures as a small town CPA. I'm not a doctor; I'm a nurse practitioner. I know lots and lots of people who make very good money in small town Alabama who aren't doctors or lawyers.

I get it. You hate your home state because you were the gay kid growing up and took some lumps for it, but maybe you should stop looking down your nose at folks and see that there's more to an economy than being a doctor, lawyer, or computer person.

You're missing my point. My argument is that Trumpism is born out of a very deep level of dissatisfaction by White Southerners. I think its the result of very poor economic prospects for most Alabamians. And cultural irrelevance of Southern White culture.

So if everyone is happy in Alabama, then what's the appeal of Trump? If Alabama is already 'great', then why go for Trump?

Pretty sure Trump is from the Northeast. That bastion of lunacy known as NYC.

What on earth does he have to do with Alabama since you were apparently a bullied kid?

Good grief.

Alabama is going to swing hard for Trump.

(05-20-2016 10:58 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 10:22 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-19-2016 07:51 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(05-19-2016 07:03 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-19-2016 03:07 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Tom, I grew up in a small town in the south, or more properly out in the country near there. I'm sure you know exactly which one. I'd say that exactly none of those things were true there.

I will agree that there are places in the south where those things would have been true at one time, maybe even when you were growing up, although I don't know your age. But there are plenty of places where they were not true then, and even more where they are not true now.

There are places where those things are still true. On US-59, between Nacogdoches and Garrison, TX, flies the largest confederate flag that I have ever seen anywhere. I'm pretty sure that characterization would fit the guy who flies that flag. And I know other places where it probably still fits too. But to express it as the kind of all-encompassing generalization that you are making is entirely inaccurate and inappropriate.

One thing for sure, my parents' house was one place where none of those things were ever true, not even remotely close.

The real issue is that even if one disagreed with the elites, you're expected to keep that opinion to yourself.

I'd argue that someone who was politically a supporter of Barack Obama, or who publicly supported Gay rights, etc., would experience some level of business or social disapproval as a result of that.

I'd be surprised if there was a bunch of Confederate symbols being bandied about (that's just considered usually tacky), but rather just a society where virtually everyone parrots the line coming from right wing radio or if they disagree, keeps their mouths shut.

By the way, we sold most of the farm last year.

Not sure who you hung around with but I know very few Southerners of any class who are afraid of speaking their mind because of some mysterious "elite".

I think you may have it in your mind that the majority of people just can't really hold views that don't match yours...so there must be some sort of mysterious force or imbedded social convention that prevents them from thinking and speaking right....like you.

Now I know "WGAS" about personal anecdotes and they make some posters cry, but nonetheless I happen to be opposed to the death penalty....a very minority opinion. I have not ever been skeert to mention that fact in the South out of fear of "social disaproval".

You are going to have to go into some more detail about this deal because I'm real skeptical.

Try publicly supporting a liberal Democrat for office citing your support for Death Penalty repeal. You'll feel the backlash real quick. Or sponsor a Syrian refugee family in town. Or advocate that the First Baptist Church not receive taxpayer funding or support for the Minister's mansion.

Will they burn your house down? Not likely. But you'll feel it. Its subtle, but its there.

---

The Death Penalty hasn't been the 'issue du jour' for the Angry White Southerners in 25 years.

---

The backlash happens when you defy convention on the 'hot button issue of the day'. Or you happen to be the target of that convention.

---

Again, if the South is so welcoming of others, then why does just about anyone who is different leave as soon as they can? And why don't others move there in significant numbers?

If you think the South just has a PR problem, and they really don't hate Gays, Mexicans, Transgendered persons, Blacks, Muslims, Athiests, Secularists, and Free Thinkers, then you might want to take it up with your GOP elected officials, whom seem to be doing everything possible to reinforce that perception of the Deep South.

---

Either way, I have posited my opinion as to how to explain the Deep South's love of Donald Trump (over native sons and those that would, otherwise, seem to be much better matches).

It boils down to this. Trump gives White Southerners pure, raw, unadulterated anger. They don't want Mike Huckabee's smiling extremism. They don't want Rand Paul's optimistic libertarianism. They want ANGER. Anger at someone else.

And Trump gives them what they want.

You are absolutely right. This is why they don't care that there isn't any substance behind his policies because all they care about is the anger.

Their life sucks and they want to blame someone for it.

Easy to parrot this stupid rhetoric from El Paso.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

(05-22-2016 12:08 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 10:58 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 10:22 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-19-2016 07:51 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(05-19-2016 07:03 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The real issue is that even if one disagreed with the elites, you're expected to keep that opinion to yourself.

I'd argue that someone who was politically a supporter of Barack Obama, or who publicly supported Gay rights, etc., would experience some level of business or social disapproval as a result of that.

I'd be surprised if there was a bunch of Confederate symbols being bandied about (that's just considered usually tacky), but rather just a society where virtually everyone parrots the line coming from right wing radio or if they disagree, keeps their mouths shut.

By the way, we sold most of the farm last year.

Not sure who you hung around with but I know very few Southerners of any class who are afraid of speaking their mind because of some mysterious "elite".

I think you may have it in your mind that the majority of people just can't really hold views that don't match yours...so there must be some sort of mysterious force or imbedded social convention that prevents them from thinking and speaking right....like you.

Now I know "WGAS" about personal anecdotes and they make some posters cry, but nonetheless I happen to be opposed to the death penalty....a very minority opinion. I have not ever been skeert to mention that fact in the South out of fear of "social disaproval".

You are going to have to go into some more detail about this deal because I'm real skeptical.

Try publicly supporting a liberal Democrat for office citing your support for Death Penalty repeal. You'll feel the backlash real quick. Or sponsor a Syrian refugee family in town. Or advocate that the First Baptist Church not receive taxpayer funding or support for the Minister's mansion.

Will they burn your house down? Not likely. But you'll feel it. Its subtle, but its there.

---

The Death Penalty hasn't been the 'issue du jour' for the Angry White Southerners in 25 years.

---

The backlash happens when you defy convention on the 'hot button issue of the day'. Or you happen to be the target of that convention.

---

Again, if the South is so welcoming of others, then why does just about anyone who is different leave as soon as they can? And why don't others move there in significant numbers?

If you think the South just has a PR problem, and they really don't hate Gays, Mexicans, Transgendered persons, Blacks, Muslims, Athiests, Secularists, and Free Thinkers, then you might want to take it up with your GOP elected officials, whom seem to be doing everything possible to reinforce that perception of the Deep South.

---

Either way, I have posited my opinion as to how to explain the Deep South's love of Donald Trump (over native sons and those that would, otherwise, seem to be much better matches).

It boils down to this. Trump gives White Southerners pure, raw, unadulterated anger. They don't want Mike Huckabee's smiling extremism. They don't want Rand Paul's optimistic libertarianism. They want ANGER. Anger at someone else.

And Trump gives them what they want.

You are absolutely right. This is why they don't care that there isn't any substance behind his policies because all they care about is the anger.

Their life sucks and they want to blame someone for it.

Easy to parrot this stupid rhetoric from El Paso.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

I watch the news brah. It's plain to see.

Southern strategy is a smart primary strategy but is not a smart general election strategy.

(05-22-2016 10:34 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  I agree with this too. The problem is thst there isn't anything else yet. Lots of appeal for whatever but no substance.

Well the interesting thing is with Trump is what he hasn't had to campaign on. Abortion, Religion, Gay Marriage or Family values. Has the Christian Right been so marginalized that they are willing to accept someone who is their antithesis?

(05-23-2016 05:32 AM)Dragonlair2.0 Wrote:  Southern strategy is a smart primary strategy but is not a smart general election strategy.

Which means that the GOP and its candidates are not in tune with the electorate.

(05-23-2016 06:51 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 05:32 AM)Dragonlair2.0 Wrote:  Southern strategy is a smart primary strategy but is not a smart general election strategy.

Which means that the GOP and its candidates are not in tune with the electorate.

They are in tune with the far right as they are easier to fire up but I agree it turns off a lot of Geneeral voters

(05-23-2016 06:02 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(05-22-2016 10:34 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  I agree with this too. The problem is thst there isn't anything else yet. Lots of appeal for whatever but no substance.

Well the interesting thing is with Trump is what he hasn't had to campaign on. Abortion, Religion, Gay Marriage or Family values. Has the Christian Right been so marginalized that they are willing to accept someone who is their antithesis?

Yes. If anything has gone right this election cycle, it's that the evangelicals have finally been rejected along with their candidates. The GOP will be the better for it.