Looking back at Louisville's journey to a Power 5 league.
READ HERE

According to Brando UConn is in a great spot now. So everyone won a trophy!

(05-16-2016 10:21 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  According to Brando UConn is in a great spot now. So everyone won a trophy!

(05-16-2016 10:21 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  According to Brando UConn is in a great spot now. So everyone won a trophy!

Brando...just smh..........

For discussion purposes, what does the landscape look like if some moves never take place, or happened differently. What if the Big 12 took Louisville instead of West Virginia in 2010? Does the ACC take WVU to replace Maryland? Does the Big 12 then go back and add WVU and Cincinnati before that can happen?

What if the ACC took UConn instead of Louisville in 2012? Is Louisville still in the AAC? Does the Big 12 now have the other team they need to add with Cincinnati or BYU to make expansion feasible? Are they still at 10? At 12? At 14 (did they decide after expanding to 12 that 12 wasn't enough)?

What if the Big Ten never expanded to 14 with Maryland and Rutgers? The Big 12 now has Louisville, Cincinnati, Rutgers, and UConn, among others, to consider for expansion. Do they?

What if the Big 12 expanded initially as they were looking to do with Pitt and Louisville? Does the ACC even expand to 14? Those two were supposed to be added to take the Big 12 back to twelve (before A&M and Missouri left). Does the Big 12 stick with ten all this time, when other teams now in P5 conferences (WVU, TCU, Syracuse, Rutgers) are still available?

Lots of what ifs...

I think the Big 12 clearly screwed up by not taking Louisville and Cincinnati when it took West Virginia. I don't care what bullshitt anyone tries to sell me, that was definitely a miscalculation on their part and it is one of the reasons why they find themselves in their current straits.

I get why it happened: they were in survival mode and could not afford to think long term. Texas was holding a gun to the heads of everyone else and the other members had no choice but to capitulate to UT's demands.

However, think about how different the entire landscape would look had they added Louisville and Cincinnati to go along with West Virginia. The B12 would be in a radically different position and the ACC would've had no choice but to replace Maryland with Connecticut.

Big mistake by the XII.

If the ACC took UConn instead of UL...I have no doubt UL and Cincy would be in the B12 or announced to be in the league by now.

(05-16-2016 11:41 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  If the ACC took UConn instead of UL...I have no doubt UL and Cincy would be in the B12 or announced to be in the league by now.

I think they would have added Memphis as well as Houston to go to 14.

NORTH
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Louisville
Memphis
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State

SOUTH
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Texas Tech
TCU
Baylor
Texas
Houston

(05-16-2016 11:31 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I think the Big 12 clearly screwed up by not taking Louisville and Cincinnati when it took West Virginia. I don't care what bullshitt anyone tries to sell me, that was definitely a miscalculation on their part and it is one of the reasons why they find themselves in their current straits.

I get why it happened: they were in survival mode and could not afford to think long term. Texas was holding a gun to the heads of everyone else and the other members had no choice but to capitulate to UT's demands.

However, think about how different the entire landscape would look had they added Louisville and Cincinnati to go along with West Virginia. The B12 would be in a radically different position and the ACC would've had no choice but to replace Maryland with Connecticut.

Big mistake by the XII.

It still surprises me to this day that the Big 12 didn't scoop up all three. I was following realignment almost hourly at that time, because of the impact that losing members would have on the Big East's efforts to hold onto Boise State and San Diego State. When I read that only West Virginia would be added I was convinced the conference would regret it later.

(05-16-2016 12:06 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 11:41 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  If the ACC took UConn instead of UL...I have no doubt UL and Cincy would be in the B12 or announced to be in the league by now.

I think they would have added Memphis as well as Houston to go to 14.

NORTH
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Louisville
Memphis
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State

SOUTH
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Texas Tech
TCU
Baylor
Texas
Houston

Maybe...I think UL and Cincy would be 1 + 2 in order. Going to 14 would have to make $$$ sense. Of course Fred Smith would help make that $$$ sense.

(05-16-2016 11:31 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I think the Big 12 clearly screwed up by not taking Louisville and Cincinnati when it took West Virginia. I don't care what bullshitt anyone tries to sell me, that was definitely a miscalculation on their part and it is one of the reasons why they find themselves in their current straits.

I get why it happened: they were in survival mode and could not afford to think long term. Texas was holding a gun to the heads of everyone else and the other members had no choice but to capitulate to UT's demands.

However, think about how different the entire landscape would look had they added Louisville and Cincinnati to go along with West Virginia. The B12 would be in a radically different position and the ACC would've had no choice but to replace Maryland with Connecticut.

Big mistake by the XII.

It would have cut the head off the snake that is conference realignment once and for all. There would have been an AAC. The only school left behind would have been USF and they would have simply joined C-USA. Schools like UCF, Houston, Memphis, etc. would not have risen their profiles and have been clamoring for a P5 spot.

(05-16-2016 11:11 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  For discussion purposes, what does the landscape look like if some moves never take place, or happened differently. What if the Big 12 took Louisville instead of West Virginia in 2010? Does the ACC take WVU to replace Maryland? Does the Big 12 then go back and add WVU and Cincinnati before that can happen?

What if the ACC took UConn instead of Louisville in 2012? Is Louisville still in the AAC? Does the Big 12 now have the other team they need to add with Cincinnati or BYU to make expansion feasible? Are they still at 10? At 12? At 14 (did they decide after expanding to 12 that 12 wasn't enough)?

What if the Big Ten never expanded to 14 with Maryland and Rutgers? The Big 12 now has Louisville, Cincinnati, Rutgers, and UConn, among others, to consider for expansion. Do they?

What if the Big 12 expanded initially as they were looking to do with Pitt and Louisville? Does the ACC even expand to 14? Those two were supposed to be added to take the Big 12 back to twelve (before A&M and Missouri left). Does the Big 12 stick with ten all this time, when other teams now in P5 conferences (WVU, TCU, Syracuse, Rutgers) are still available?

Lots of what ifs...

If Missouri didn't leave, the Big 12 could have been contiguous all the way up to New York. A Louisville, Pittsburgh add could have yielded a later WVU/Cincy, Syracuse add.
Our addition back then really could have been a true land bridge between the east and west.

(05-16-2016 12:24 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  It would have cut the head off the snake that is conference realignment once and for all. There would not have been an AAC. The only school left behind would have been USF and they would have simply joined C-USA. Schools like UCF, Houston, Memphis, etc. would not have risen their profiles and have been clamoring for a P5 spot.

Actually, the American was formed with Louisville, Rutgers, Cincy, UConn and USF. Louisville and Rutgers were invited to new leagues in Year 1 of the American.

Had the Big 12 taken Cincy, Louisville, West Va and TCU, then Rutgers, UConn and USF would have been left.

It's not clear they would have joined CUSA, or stolen from CUSA to form a new league.

To your point, under this scenario Rutgers and UConn would have left the American after one year, and USF would have been the only school left starting in Year 2.

(05-16-2016 12:31 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:24 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  It would have cut the head off the snake that is conference realignment once and for all. There would not have been an AAC. The only school left behind would have been USF and they would have simply joined C-USA. Schools like UCF, Houston, Memphis, etc. would not have risen their profiles and have been clamoring for a P5 spot.

Actually, the American was formed with Louisville, Rutgers, Cincy, UConn and USF. Louisville and Rutgers were invited to new leagues in Year 1 of the American.

Had the Big 12 taken Cincy, Louisville, West Va and TCU, then Rutgers, UConn and USF would have been left.

It's not clear they would have joined CUSA, or stolen from CUSA to form a new league.

To your point, under this scenario Rutgers and UConn would have left the American after one year, and USF would have been the only school left starting in Year 2.

We gave our notice to the BE.

Don't forget that Louisville , Cincinnati, Rutgers were moved to the back burner when out of Nowhere talk of ND, FSU and Clemson came to the front as the next choices as well as BYU for the Big 12. Suddenly ND went ACC, Rutgers and Maryland went B1G leaving UL, UC, UConn to replace Maryland. Then the C7 bailed on the Big East taking the name with Them after buying it. Whirlwing movement that Luckily turned out for Louisville into the ACC where for most fans it was a dream come true. For most of Us the ACC was Our first choice but hoping something would work out.

(05-16-2016 11:31 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I think the Big 12 clearly screwed up by not taking Louisville and Cincinnati when it took West Virginia. I don't care what bullshitt anyone tries to sell me, that was definitely a miscalculation on their part and it is one of the reasons why they find themselves in their current straits.

I get why it happened: they were in survival mode and could not afford to think long term. Texas was holding a gun to the heads of everyone else and the other members had no choice but to capitulate to UT's demands.

However, think about how different the entire landscape would look had they added Louisville and Cincinnati to go along with West Virginia. The B12 would be in a radically different position and the ACC would've had no choice but to replace Maryland with Connecticut.

Big mistake by the XII.

Well, depending on the time we are talking, the Big East knew they had Pitt, Cuse and TCU leaving. But they still had Uconn, Rut, USF, Louisville, Cincy and WV. BIG12 needed a team ASAP to play in 2012, which is how they ended up with WV, because WV was the best choice that was willing to pay the penalty and leave with short notice. If the Big 12 could have waited a year, they might have invited WV, Louisville and Cincy to all join in 2013.

Then the Big East would never had needed to invite Temple on short notice to play in 2012.

But even then, it depends on when Rutgers and MD knew they were leaving. Otherwise USF, UConn and Rutgers would have still sent out at least 4 invites anyway to UCF, Houston, SMU, and Memphis

At that point, Temple might have been the next best choice anyway, or maybe they would have skipped over Temple and picked Tulane. But UConn and Rutgers would have left anyway, so at that point ECU and Temple get invited anyway.

The only difference is the AAC might have stopped at only 10 schools instead of 12.

(05-16-2016 11:11 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  What if the Big 12 expanded initially as they were looking to do with Pitt and Louisville? Does the ACC even expand to 14?

According to BC's AD at the time, UConn was the choice ahead of Pitt, but when he blackballed UConn, they went with Pitt.

The question I have is what is the real value to the program and the conference of going from G5 to P5? With the only examples being Utah and TCU, I think its difficult to measure how said programs have helped the conference. In that regard, Louisville's brief demotion might be instructive.

(05-16-2016 12:31 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:24 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  It would have cut the head off the snake that is conference realignment once and for all. There would not have been an AAC. The only school left behind would have been USF and they would have simply joined C-USA. Schools like UCF, Houston, Memphis, etc. would not have risen their profiles and have been clamoring for a P5 spot.

Actually, the American was formed with Louisville, Rutgers, Cincy, UConn and USF. Louisville and Rutgers were invited to new leagues in Year 1 of the American.

Had the Big 12 taken Cincy, Louisville, West Va and TCU, then Rutgers, UConn and USF would have been left.

It's not clear they would have joined CUSA, or stolen from CUSA to form a new league.

To your point, under this scenario Rutgers and UConn would have left the American after one year, and USF would have been the only school left starting in Year 2.

Louisville and Rutgers were both on their way out by Year 1 of the AAC, having already given notice. We were both just stuck in a year of purgatory, in a conference that knew we were ditching them.

They should have added WV, Louisville & BYU when they had a chance.

Uconn would have gotten the ACC spot when Maryland left.