(05-11-2016 08:53 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(05-11-2016 08:46 AM)bullet Wrote:  One thing to consider about the state of Texas and Houston is how big the state is. Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama and Tennessee have 8 schools in those 5 states in the SEC and nobody talks about the SEC being too "regional." Texas is bigger in area and has several million more people than those 5 states and only has 4 schools in the Big 12.

Yup. for example



P5 schools covered: Indiana, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Louisville, Kentucky, West Virginia, Virginia, Virginia Tech. Maryland, UNC, Duke, NC State, Wake Forest, Clemson, South Carolina, Vanderbilt, and Tennessee. Just missed: Pittsburgh, Michigan, Michigan State, Illinois, and Georgia



Cities covered: NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, Syracuse, Toronto,, Buffalo, Hartford, Providence. Just missed: Pittsburch, Baltimore, Cleveland, Detroit



Cities coverted: Los Angeles, Bay Area, San Diego, Sacramento, Las Vegas, Reno. Just missed: Salt Lake City, Portland.



P5 schools covered: Miami, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Tennessee. Schoosl that would be covered if 50% of graph was not out at sea: Alabama, Auburn, Clemson, South Carolina, Ole Miss, Miss St, UNC, Duke, Wake, NC State, Vanderbilt, LSU.



cities covered: Paris, Berlin, Frankfurt, Munich, Prague, Vienna, Milan, Amsterdam, Luxembourg, Venic,e Rome. Just missed: London, Hamburg.

I could not find one to compare directly to the southeast, but you get the idea.

Actually, that's not even doing the size of Texas justice, because it would actually need to be skewing larger the the further North you go (because of how the globe cut and pasted onto a flat surface looks).

140 miles is Philadelphia to Washington DC. That's how close the Big 12 comes to playing in Houston.

(05-11-2016 08:53 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(05-11-2016 08:46 AM)bullet Wrote:  One thing to consider about the state of Texas and Houston is how big the state is. Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama and Tennessee have 8 schools in those 5 states in the SEC and nobody talks about the SEC being too "regional." Texas is bigger in area and has several million more people than those 5 states and only has 4 schools in the Big 12.

Yup. for example



P5 schools covered: Indiana, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Louisville, Kentucky, West Virginia, Virginia, Virginia Tech. Maryland, UNC, Duke, NC State, Wake Forest, Clemson, South Carolina, Vanderbilt, and Tennessee. Just missed: Pittsburgh, Michigan, Michigan State, Illinois, and Georgia



Cities covered: NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, Syracuse, Toronto,, Buffalo, Hartford, Providence. Just missed: Pittsburch, Baltimore, Cleveland, Detroit



Cities coverted: Los Angeles, Bay Area, San Diego, Sacramento, Las Vegas, Reno. Just missed: Salt Lake City, Portland.



P5 schools covered: Miami, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Tennessee. Schoosl that would be covered if 50% of graph was not out at sea: Alabama, Auburn, Clemson, South Carolina, Ole Miss, Miss St, UNC, Duke, Wake, NC State, Vanderbilt, LSU.



cities covered: Paris, Berlin, Frankfurt, Munich, Prague, Vienna, Milan, Amsterdam, Luxembourg, Venic,e Rome. Just missed: London, Hamburg.

I could not find one to compare directly to the southeast, but you get the idea.

Population, not land mass, would be the better comparison. The overlay of NY, PA and New England is particularly dumb.

Looks like the Wall in Texas will be longer than the rest of it thru New Mexico, Arizona, California combined !

(05-11-2016 09:44 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(05-11-2016 08:46 AM)bullet Wrote:  One thing to consider about the state of Texas and Houston is how big the state is. Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama and Tennessee have 8 schools in those 5 states in the SEC and nobody talks about the SEC being too "regional."

Population, not land mass, would be the better comparison. The overlay of NY, PA and New England is particularly dumb.

Why would "population," and not "landmass" be a better comparison, when the quote is about the SIZE of the state of Texas, and NOT the population? Talk about dumb. Go make your points if you have something to say, but reading comprehension would be wise, before making such comments.

(05-11-2016 09:37 AM)UConnHusky Wrote:  The SEC plays 95 miles from there and draws the Houston market.

And therein lies the rub.

2015 Top 20 Most Watched Regular College Football Games in Houston
SEC - 9
Big 12 - 5
Houston - 3

Houston is officially an SEC town. I don't know how much that matters to the Big 12, but the only chance of Houston becoming a Big 12 town is to add UH and play games here.

And if UH is taken by the Pac 12 or other P5, then the Big 12's "ownership" of the Houston market becomes even more laughable.

Does a prudent business expand into new territories without making sure it is strong in its home markets?

(05-11-2016 08:53 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(05-11-2016 08:46 AM)bullet Wrote:  One thing to consider about the state of Texas and Houston is how big the state is. Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama and Tennessee have 8 schools in those 5 states in the SEC and nobody talks about the SEC being too "regional." Texas is bigger in area and has several million more people than those 5 states and only has 4 schools in the Big 12.

Yup. for example



P5 schools covered: Indiana, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Louisville, Kentucky, West Virginia, Virginia, Virginia Tech. Maryland, UNC, Duke, NC State, Wake Forest, Clemson, South Carolina, Vanderbilt, and Tennessee. Just missed: Pittsburgh, Michigan, Michigan State, Illinois, and Georgia



Cities covered: NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, Syracuse, Toronto,, Buffalo, Hartford, Providence. Just missed: Pittsburch, Baltimore, Cleveland, Detroit



Cities coverted: Los Angeles, Bay Area, San Diego, Sacramento, Las Vegas, Reno. Just missed: Salt Lake City, Portland.



P5 schools covered: Miami, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Tennessee. Schoosl that would be covered if 50% of graph was not out at sea: Alabama, Auburn, Clemson, South Carolina, Ole Miss, Miss St, UNC, Duke, Wake, NC State, Vanderbilt, LSU.



cities covered: Paris, Berlin, Frankfurt, Munich, Prague, Vienna, Milan, Amsterdam, Luxembourg, Venic,e Rome. Just missed: London, Hamburg.

I could not find one to compare directly to the southeast, but you get the idea.

Do those maps take into account the curvature of the earth and what kind of projection the map is using? Google maps uses a Mercator Projection, meaning the further north you get the more inaccurate the map becomes.

Example:


And for reference, a Mercator Projection map:


If you look at land area, Texas (268,820 sq miles) is slightly larger than France (248,573 sq miles) with a population difference of 38.74 million people in France's favor (Texas has a population of 27.47 million people.

I used Wikipedia as a source for most of this.

(05-11-2016 08:53 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(05-11-2016 08:46 AM)bullet Wrote:  One thing to consider about the state of Texas and Houston is how big the state is. Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama and Tennessee have 8 schools in those 5 states in the SEC and nobody talks about the SEC being too "regional." Texas is bigger in area and has several million more people than those 5 states and only has 4 schools in the Big 12.

Yup. for example ...

Actually, on a per capita basis, among the big states Texas is already pretty saturated with P5 schools. In fact, Texas is the most-saturated among the seven largest states:


Texas ... 5.4 million people per P5 school.

Pennsylvania ... 6.4 million per P5 school.

Illinois ........ 6.4 million per P5 school.

Florida ... 6.7 million per P5 school.

California ... 9.8 million per P5 school.

New York (counting Rutgers) ... 10 million per P5 school.

Ohio ....... 11.6 million per P5 school.

Sure, there are a lot of small states (e.g., Alabama and Oregon) that have greater saturation levels than Texas. But among big states, Texas is not under-saturated.

I think the thread title is misleading. The schools are flirting with the Big XII. Like the woman walking by the construction site, it's not her participating in the dialogue. More just a recipient.

(05-11-2016 10:03 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I think the thread title is misleading. The schools are flirting with the Big XII. Like the woman walking by the construction site, it's not her participating in the dialogue. More just a recipient.

Yes, Houston and Cincy admins groveling desperately outside B12 headquarters does not equal B12 'flirting', LOL.

BTW, i hope USF admins are groveling too, lol.

(05-11-2016 09:56 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  Do those maps take into account the curvature of the earth and what kind of projection the map is using? Google maps uses a Mercator Projection, meaning the further north you get the more inaccurate the map becomes.

They were pre-made maps I found on Google. Considering how much of the mass is over the sea on most of them, I doubt they went that far. That said, the curvature part would probably even itself out, as both would likely have similar curvature properties.

Also, with the maps thing, the density you're looking at isn't really the whole state of texas now is it? Most of the Big XII Texas schools would be situated in the southeast, so you should be looking at the density of schools relative to each other if you want a good comparison. Using Google Maps, the distance between the 2 furthest schools (TTU and Houston) is ~ 470 miles, so a circle with a diameter of 470 miles would be a better feel for how dense the school distribution would be. (Fun fact, this circle would have a land area of 173,489.34 sq miles, or just smaller than Sweden [173,860 sq miles] and it would STILL be the 2nd biggest state in the union.)

But, if you take out Texas Tech, who is an outlier being 270 miles from their nearest neighbor (TCU), you get a circle that has a diameter of just 240 miles (45238.90 sq miles). This is smaller than 32 other states, and smaller than Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, New York, etc. (also, it's a bit more than half the size of Belarus [80,155 sq miles]).

4 P5 schools in that area can be pretty dense (and this doesn't even include Texas A&M which is smack-dab between Baylor and Houston). It may be worth it in the end, but I think worries about density can be substantiated.

(05-11-2016 09:49 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(05-11-2016 09:44 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(05-11-2016 08:46 AM)bullet Wrote:  One thing to consider about the state of Texas and Houston is how big the state is. Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama and Tennessee have 8 schools in those 5 states in the SEC and nobody talks about the SEC being too "regional."

Population, not land mass, would be the better comparison. The overlay of NY, PA and New England is particularly dumb.

Why would "population," and not "landmass" be a better comparison, when the quote is about the SIZE of the state of Texas, and NOT the population? Talk about dumb. Go make your points if you have something to say, but reading comprehension would be wise, before making such comments.

OK, both statements were dumb but you cut off his mention of population. More people = more eyeballs, more recruits, etc.

(05-11-2016 10:13 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Yes, Houston and Cincy admins groveling desperately outside B12 headquarters does not equal B12 'flirting', LOL.

BTW, i hope USF admins are groveling too, lol.

I would be upset if my admins weren't groveling. We are Louisville; We may not have invented groveling but we may well have perfected it.
CJ

(05-11-2016 09:55 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(05-11-2016 09:37 AM)UConnHusky Wrote:  The SEC plays 95 miles from there and draws the Houston market.

And therein lies the rub.

2015 Top 20 Most Watched Regular College Football Games in Houston
SEC - 9
Big 12 - 5
Houston - 3

Houston is officially an SEC town. I don't know how much that matters to the Big 12, but the only chance of Houston becoming a Big 12 town is to add UH and play games here.

And if UH is taken by the Pac 12 or other P5, then the Big 12's "ownership" of the Houston market becomes even more laughable.

Does a prudent business expand into new territories without making sure it is strong in its home markets?

Houston is a pro sports town. And in college games, it takes the same approach-watching the "big" games. Look at the ratings and you will see its heavy on the big games-basically Alabama (and without looking at it again there was a Big 10 game-think Michigan St.-Oregon). Texas A&M has higher top ratings than Texas (especially playing Alabama), but Texas still beats A&M on the lesser games.

In 2014 there was Texas-OU, TCU-Baylor and an A&M game vs. Ole Miss who was top 10 and A&M-Ole Miss finished 3rd in DFW and 2nd in Houston behind an unranked, bad Texas team playing OU.

Houston becoming an SEC town is another false urban legend. A&M is pretty big. Lots of LSU fans. It was that way before A&M moved to the SEC. But there are still more Big 12 fans between Texas, Baylor, OU and the others to a lesser extent.

(05-11-2016 10:20 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  Also, with the maps thing, the density you're looking at isn't really the whole state of texas now is it? Most of the Big XII Texas schools would be situated in the southeast, so you should be looking at the density of schools relative to each other if you want a good comparison. Using Google Maps, the distance between the 2 furthest schools (TTU and Houston) is ~ 470 miles, so a circle with a diameter of 470 miles would be a better feel for how dense the school distribution would be. (Fun fact, this circle would have a land area of 173,489.34 sq miles, or just smaller than Sweden [173,860 sq miles] and it would STILL be the 2nd biggest state in the union.)

But, if you take out Texas Tech, who is an outlier being 270 miles from their nearest neighbor (TCU), you get a circle that has a diameter of just 240 miles (45238.90 sq miles). This is smaller than 32 other states, and smaller than Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, New York, etc. (also, it's a bit more than half the size of Belarus [80,155 sq miles]).

4 P5 schools in that area can be pretty dense (and this doesn't even include Texas A&M which is smack-dab between Baylor and Houston). It may be worth it in the end, but I think worries about density can be substantiated.

Look at those maps of the SEC, ACC and B1G territory again. You will see similar concentrations and more in some places.

(05-10-2016 06:56 PM)goofus Wrote:  Wait, I am confused. Who contacted who?

Anyway, if Houston is selected, that probably means University of Texas is about ready to leave. Otherwise why would you add another school inside the state of Texas?

The rumor has always been to place Houston in the North division. This way with 5 teams in the state the Northern schools will retain favorable access to the Texas markets.

They don't want to split and play once or twice every 4 years or so in Texas.

With Houston in the North they are guaranteed at least 2 games in a 4 year cycle plus whatever they get versus the other 4 schools.

Not saying any of that is true but that was the logic as explained to me.

(05-11-2016 01:52 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(05-10-2016 06:34 PM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  This is the type of work that you do when you are serious about expanding. This is the type of information that has changed my opinion that the Big 12 will at least expand with new schools. It doesn't change my views on Texas/LHN though.

Pretty sure that Nebraska, Missouri, Colorado, and A&M look pretty good to them right now. Thank you Texas and OU...

I completely agree with that.

After reading & studying
all the various options, comments,
and proposals about Big 12 expansion,

It seems it is in Texas best interest
2 keep the Big 12 operational
How much will Texas "loosen" its grip/$$$$
2 help the Big 12 form its own network?
What % of the LHN revenue is "open"
4 distribution among fellow member schools?

IF the Big 12 expanses,
TV market size, ratings, & revenue will B the prime mover

Big 12 will 1st try & go after some P5 schools:
Primary targets speculation, ie: Fl St, Miami, Hawgs, Mizzu

If ALL P5 options fail, then....
Houston & BYU/Bosie St are out,
UCF seems 2 B the "most" likely #1 candidate
After that,
Dozens of teams have +'s and -'s

Which leads 2 speculation of the Big 12 expanding
beyond just adding 2 teams.

(05-11-2016 11:16 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-11-2016 10:20 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  Also, with the maps thing, the density you're looking at isn't really the whole state of texas now is it? Most of the Big XII Texas schools would be situated in the southeast, so you should be looking at the density of schools relative to each other if you want a good comparison. Using Google Maps, the distance between the 2 furthest schools (TTU and Houston) is ~ 470 miles, so a circle with a diameter of 470 miles would be a better feel for how dense the school distribution would be. (Fun fact, this circle would have a land area of 173,489.34 sq miles, or just smaller than Sweden [173,860 sq miles] and it would STILL be the 2nd biggest state in the union.)

But, if you take out Texas Tech, who is an outlier being 270 miles from their nearest neighbor (TCU), you get a circle that has a diameter of just 240 miles (45238.90 sq miles). This is smaller than 32 other states, and smaller than Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, New York, etc. (also, it's a bit more than half the size of Belarus [80,155 sq miles]).

4 P5 schools in that area can be pretty dense (and this doesn't even include Texas A&M which is smack-dab between Baylor and Houston). It may be worth it in the end, but I think worries about density can be substantiated.

Look at those maps of the SEC, ACC and B1G territory again. You will see similar concentrations and more in some places.

Once I get some free time, I'd honestly like to do that. For some reason the density of P5/FBS schools could be an interesting topic.

I'll be sure to publish my results.