Memphis is intriguing because they have never had the P5/BCS conference tag and it would be interesting to see what they could do with it. Plus, Kansas, Texas, and Oklahoma basketball match-ups seem natural.

We had a preview of what UConn, Cincinnati, and SFLA could do with the power conference amenities.

I am leaning towards BYU and Memphis. Colorado State could be interesting, but their history isn't very impressive. I like UNLV as well, but they are still a football wasteland. IIRC, they were actually pretty good when the program first started.

(05-08-2016 01:39 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  Attendance is far better predictor of expansion outcomes

No, it's not. TCU, for example, outperforms most of the Big 12 in football and adds value to TV deals because they're usually ranked -- TV audience sizes are generally larger when the teams in the game are ranked that week. That's why the TV networks always tout a team's ranking when they are promoting next week's games.

A team with Top 10 finishes, BCS/CFP bowl wins, etc. adds a lot more value than a team that has the use of a larger stadium.

Of all the expansion scenarios the "experts" talk involving G5 schools, this is the only one that makes sense. Yes, travel would suck for WVU and BYU but when your school gets paid $20+ million a year plus extra revenue on tier 3 rights then travel expenses are suddenly not an issue.

NORTH
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
West Virginia
Colorado State
Uconn
Cincinnati

SOUTH
Texas
Texas Tech
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
TCU
BYU
Baylor

The XII South would be a brutal division, whoever wins that division and beats the North champ has a secured spot in the CFP. Suddenly Cincinnati looks out of place in a conference full of flagships/land grants and private schools.

(05-08-2016 07:13 AM)goofus Wrote:  I guess the question is what does Texas want from the BIG 12 so that Texas does not leave the Big12?

If the choice is to give up the LHN and expand the Big12 into a giant conference by taking Cincy, Memphis and Uconn, then why wouldn't Texas instead just join a conference with Ohio St, Penn St, and Mich instead. Especially since Texas could take Oklahoma with them and be reunited with Nebraska.

Now if the choice was BYU/CSU or the Pac-12, that's not so clear cut.

IMO there is no question that the Big10 would be Texas first choice.

(05-08-2016 02:17 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-08-2016 01:39 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  Attendance is far better predictor of expansion outcomes

No, it's not. TCU, for example, outperforms most of the Big 12 in football and adds value to TV deals because they're usually ranked -- TV audience sizes are generally larger when the teams in the game are ranked that week. That's why the TV networks always tout a team's ranking when they are promoting next week's games.

A team with Top 10 finishes, BCS/CFP bowl wins, etc. adds a lot more value than a team that has the use of a larger stadium.

It is. Teams that have good attendance usually are better. Teams that play in tiny stadiums likely haven't been good enough long enough to garner much fan interest. Although I do live in the south and attendance is far more cultural than in the west where attendance isn't great. Even so, TCU averaged far more in attendance than CSU's stadium capacity. CSU doesn't exactly add any TV value like TCU did either.

(05-08-2016 02:04 PM)esayem Wrote:  Memphis is intriguing because they have never had the P5/BCS conference tag and it would be interesting to see what they could do with it. Plus, Kansas, Texas, and Oklahoma basketball match-ups seem natural.

We had a preview of what UConn, Cincinnati, and SFLA could do with the power conference amenities.

I am leaning towards BYU and Memphis. Colorado State could be interesting, but their history isn't very impressive. I like UNLV as well, but they are still a football wasteland. IIRC, they were actually pretty good when the program first started.

Yup, and they could do everything Pitt, Cuse and BC could do. Is that good or bad?

(05-08-2016 02:25 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Of all the expansion scenarios the "experts" talk involving G5 schools, this is the only one that makes sense. Yes, travel would suck for WVU and BYU but when your school gets paid $20+ million a year plus extra revenue on tier 3 rights then travel expenses are suddenly not an issue.

NORTH
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
West Virginia
Colorado State
Uconn
Cincinnati

SOUTH
Texas
Texas Tech
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
TCU
BYU
Baylor

The XII South would be a brutal division, whoever wins that division and beats the North champ has a secured spot in the CFP. Suddenly Cincinnati looks out of place in a conference full of flagships/land grants and private schools.

Would Cincy still look out of place if it were immediately competitive in that Big XII North division? I recall that its ascendency in the old Big East was pretty impressive. During its seven years in that conference (when Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, and West Virginia were also members), Cincy won two conference football championships outright and shared in two others. UC's basketball program would be more than competitive in the Big XII, as well.

If you consider Kansas State, Colorado State, Iowa State, Texas Tech, and Oklahoma State to be flagship universities, then so is UC. With an enrollment of 46,000, It is, after all, the second largest state university in Ohio, a very high population state.

(05-08-2016 11:30 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(05-08-2016 11:16 AM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(05-08-2016 10:38 AM)Maize Wrote:  

(05-08-2016 10:22 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  The Big 12 could add all four and go to 14 teams.

Big 14 North
Connecticut
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
Colorado Sate

Big 14 South
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Texas
Texas Tech
TCU
Baylor
BYU

If the Big XII becomes the Big XIV this is what I would go with....

Big 14 North
UCF
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
USF

Big 14 South
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Texas
Texas Tech
TCU
Baylor
BYU

Have a presence in Florida with the SEC & ACC...to go with the recruiting area of Southeast Ohio and National Brand BYU.

Actually I think Cinci and CSU may be what Texas would accept. Get's WVU a travel partner and brings back the Colardo market to the B12. With 14 maybe planned down down the road with UCONN and Memphis by having 9 teams willing to expand unless Texas gets CSU to be loyal to them for getting them into B12.

I can dig it.....

B12 (Cincinnati, Colorado St)
MWC (Wichita State)
AAC (Ohio)
MAC (Missouri State)

Yeah the AAC isn't passing on NIU for Ohio... NIU may not be the top choice for a backfill, but i promise you they are far more promising than Ohio

Nice try though

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-foot...story.html

From the UConn perspective.
"UConn is very much in the mix as the Big 12 considers expansion..."

The same general articles are coming out of all the contenders hometown newspaper.

Colorado State is the one school that seemingly has come out of nowhere. As others surmise, it might indicate the Big 12 is looking at a western push. Adding UNLV, SDSU, Boise, Air Force...wow. That would be an insanely big move.

I just wanted to make a simple point here that some are evidently missing.

Connecticut is not a city. It is a state. So, when you look at the population of Hartford and trying to make this meaningful in evaluating the school, it's like looking at Utah and then narrowing down the comparison to Provo.

There are 3.6m people in the state of Connecticut. And many hundreds of thousands of Conn. people living just over the border in New York.

(05-08-2016 03:06 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(05-08-2016 02:25 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Of all the expansion scenarios the "experts" talk involving G5 schools, this is the only one that makes sense. Yes, travel would suck for WVU and BYU but when your school gets paid $20+ million a year plus extra revenue on tier 3 rights then travel expenses are suddenly not an issue.

NORTH
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
West Virginia
Colorado State
Uconn
Cincinnati

SOUTH
Texas
Texas Tech
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
TCU
BYU
Baylor

The XII South would be a brutal division, whoever wins that division and beats the North champ has a secured spot in the CFP. Suddenly Cincinnati looks out of place in a conference full of flagships/land grants and private schools.

Would Cincy still look out of place if it were immediately competitive in that Big XII North division? I recall that its ascendency in the old Big East was pretty impressive. During its seven years in that conference (when Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, and West Virginia were also members), Cincy won two conference football championships outright and shared in two others. UC's basketball program would be more than competitive in the Big XII, as well.

If you consider Kansas State, Colorado State, Iowa State, Texas Tech, and Oklahoma State to be flagship universities, then so is UC. With an enrollment of 46,000, It is, after all, the second largest state university in Ohio, a very high population state.

Cincinnati would be competitive in the Big XII, nobody is arguing that. But it would be the only true urban school in the conference. Its peers in the Big East/AAC were mostly in urban areas like Pittsburgh, Louisville, Tampa, Houston, Orlando, Philadelphia, Memphis, etc. In an expanded XII (based on The Dallas Morning News picks), Cincinnati would be surrounded by mostly public and private schools in college towns. Morgantown, Norman, Ames, Manhattan, Lawrence, Provo, Fort Collins, Storrs and Stillwater are in no way similar to Cincinnati (the city not the school). Not even Waco and Lubbock are close to a large urban feel. The only ones in the XII that have that are Austin and Ft Worth which have a flagship and a private school respectively.

(05-08-2016 03:05 PM)Minutemen429 Wrote:  

(05-08-2016 02:04 PM)esayem Wrote:  Memphis is intriguing because they have never had the P5/BCS conference tag and it would be interesting to see what they could do with it. Plus, Kansas, Texas, and Oklahoma basketball match-ups seem natural.

We had a preview of what UConn, Cincinnati, and SFLA could do with the power conference amenities.

I am leaning towards BYU and Memphis. Colorado State could be interesting, but their history isn't very impressive. I like UNLV as well, but they are still a football wasteland. IIRC, they were actually pretty good when the program first started.

Yup, and they could do everything Pitt, Cuse and BC could do. Is that good or bad?

Memphis: It would be especially interesting considering that they are located in SEC country; I would like to see what P5 would do for their football program.

(05-08-2016 01:39 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(05-08-2016 12:12 PM)Rabonchild Wrote:  BYU & Colorado St could be a smart move toward the west. Cincy, UCF, ECU & ODU (I know ODU is a simi new start up) would be a good move east. (bringing in populated states for TV).

This would also buy some time for two more schools in the east to get their on campus stadium issues addressed (USF, Temple, Memphis, or UCONN). To reach 18 teams.

And then go into the California market for San Diego St & Fresno St. for a 20 team conference in populated areas with great recruiting. However, like it or not it will take Texas to keep this conference at P5 level. Let them and BYU have their own network and let the other 18 teams negotiate their network as a unit.

Memphis building an OCS would be stupid. The 62k Liberty Bowl is literally less than 3 miles away. Colorado St can build $220M stadiums all they want, but it is still half the stadium that Memphis fills up. Heck Memphis averages 7k more in football attendance than their new stadium even holds. Attendance is far better predictor of expansion outcomes than building a stadium the size of a shoe no matter how nice it is.

Which stadium exactly would be the one that "Memphis fills up"?

What Memphis has shown is that they can draw a crowd when they have a great team. This past year, they had a very good one, with an exceptional quarterback (now departed to the NFL), and they averaged 43K+. But when they aren't so good (which has been the case more often than not), more than 60% of their stadium capacity is empty.

That's hardly unique. Success helps attendance at most schools. It also helps to draw a TV audience. Which of the schools whose names are being bandied about (mostly by the fans of those schools) for B12 membership have demonstrated that kind of success with any consistency?

(05-08-2016 03:40 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(05-08-2016 01:39 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(05-08-2016 12:12 PM)Rabonchild Wrote:  BYU & Colorado St could be a smart move toward the west. Cincy, UCF, ECU & ODU (I know ODU is a simi new start up) would be a good move east. (bringing in populated states for TV).

This would also buy some time for two more schools in the east to get their on campus stadium issues addressed (USF, Temple, Memphis, or UCONN). To reach 18 teams.

And then go into the California market for San Diego St & Fresno St. for a 20 team conference in populated areas with great recruiting. However, like it or not it will take Texas to keep this conference at P5 level. Let them and BYU have their own network and let the other 18 teams negotiate their network as a unit.

Memphis building an OCS would be stupid. The 62k Liberty Bowl is literally less than 3 miles away. Colorado St can build $220M stadiums all they want, but it is still half the stadium that Memphis fills up. Heck Memphis averages 7k more in football attendance than their new stadium even holds. Attendance is far better predictor of expansion outcomes than building a stadium the size of a shoe no matter how nice it is.

Which stadium exactly would be the one that "Memphis fills up"?

What Memphis has shown is that they can draw a crowd when they have a great team. This past year, they had a very good one, with an exceptional quarterback (now departed to the NFL), and they averaged 43K+. But when they aren't so good (which has been the case more often than not), more than 60% of their stadium capacity is empty.

That's hardly unique. Success helps attendance at most schools. It also helps to draw a TV audience. Which of the schools whose names are being bandied about (mostly by the fans of those schools) for B12 membership have demonstrated that kind of success with any consistency?

The only one that comes to mind is BYU. They'll get 60k no matter what. The other one is East Carolina but there's no chance for them to go to the Big XII or any other P5 league.

You would clearly do an East/West split with these schools. Have you guys looked at a map of the USA?

Take two Texas schools to put East:

TCU (as TCU once joined the old Big East) UConn, UC, WVU, KU, KSU, ISU (You want the Bball powerhouses playing twice a year).

West gets: CSU, BYU, Baylor, and Texoma schools.

(05-08-2016 02:37 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(05-08-2016 02:17 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-08-2016 01:39 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  Attendance is far better predictor of expansion outcomes

No, it's not. TCU, for example, outperforms most of the Big 12 in football and adds value to TV deals because they're usually ranked -- TV audience sizes are generally larger when the teams in the game are ranked that week. That's why the TV networks always tout a team's ranking when they are promoting next week's games.

A team with Top 10 finishes, BCS/CFP bowl wins, etc. adds a lot more value than a team that has the use of a larger stadium.

It is. Teams that have good attendance usually are better. Teams that play in tiny stadiums likely haven't been good enough long enough to garner much fan interest. Although I do live in the south and attendance is far more cultural than in the west where attendance isn't great. Even so, TCU averaged far more in attendance than CSU's stadium capacity. CSU doesn't exactly add any TV value like TCU did either.

More attendance isn't better. More winning, and consistent winning, is better. So tell us which of the hopefuls have had as much football success and add as much value as TCU.

(05-08-2016 03:27 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(05-08-2016 03:06 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(05-08-2016 02:25 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Of all the expansion scenarios the "experts" talk involving G5 schools, this is the only one that makes sense. Yes, travel would suck for WVU and BYU but when your school gets paid $20+ million a year plus extra revenue on tier 3 rights then travel expenses are suddenly not an issue.

NORTH
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
West Virginia
Colorado State
Uconn
Cincinnati

SOUTH
Texas
Texas Tech
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
TCU
BYU
Baylor

The XII South would be a brutal division, whoever wins that division and beats the North champ has a secured spot in the CFP. Suddenly Cincinnati looks out of place in a conference full of flagships/land grants and private schools.

Would Cincy still look out of place if it were immediately competitive in that Big XII North division? I recall that its ascendency in the old Big East was pretty impressive. During its seven years in that conference (when Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, and West Virginia were also members), Cincy won two conference football championships outright and shared in two others. UC's basketball program would be more than competitive in the Big XII, as well.

If you consider Kansas State, Colorado State, Iowa State, Texas Tech, and Oklahoma State to be flagship universities, then so is UC. With an enrollment of 46,000, It is, after all, the second largest state university in Ohio, a very high population state.

Cincinnati would be competitive in the Big XII, nobody is arguing that. But it would be the only true urban school in the conference. Its peers in the Big East/AAC were mostly in urban areas like Pittsburgh, Louisville, Tampa, Houston, Orlando, Philadelphia, Memphis, etc. In an expanded XII (based on The Dallas Morning News picks), Cincinnati would be surrounded by mostly public and private schools in college towns. Morgantown, Norman, Ames, Manhattan, Lawrence, Provo, Fort Collins, Storrs and Stillwater are in no way similar to Cincinnati (the city not the school). Not even Waco and Lubbock are close to a large urban feel. The only ones in the XII that have that are Austin and Ft Worth which have a flagship and a private school respectively.

So what? When you're sitting in a stadium on a beautiful campus watching a game, does it matter how large the city or town is just outside the gates?

Over its very long history, UC has hosted and visited opponents located in towns and cities of every size and description. I can't recall that any of them, either those from quaint little college towns or those from teeming metropolises, ever refused to play us because the populations of our surrounding communities differed.

If you're going to fish for red herrings, you're going to need a stronger line.

(05-08-2016 03:30 PM)esayem Wrote:  Memphis: It would be especially interesting considering that they are located in SEC country; I would like to see what P5 would do for their football program.

I'm not sure that there's a novelty here. E.g., Georgia Tech, FSU, and Clemson are all in SEC country so we've seen how that plays out before.

I'm not really sure I'd consider Clemson to be in SEC country - South Carolina's only been in the SEC for about a quarter century, and just simply hasn't been dominant in football. Georgia Tech is the only one who is truly overshadowed.

(05-08-2016 04:16 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(05-08-2016 03:27 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(05-08-2016 03:06 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(05-08-2016 02:25 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Of all the expansion scenarios the "experts" talk involving G5 schools, this is the only one that makes sense. Yes, travel would suck for WVU and BYU but when your school gets paid $20+ million a year plus extra revenue on tier 3 rights then travel expenses are suddenly not an issue.

NORTH
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
West Virginia
Colorado State
Uconn
Cincinnati

SOUTH
Texas
Texas Tech
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
TCU
BYU
Baylor

The XII South would be a brutal division, whoever wins that division and beats the North champ has a secured spot in the CFP. Suddenly Cincinnati looks out of place in a conference full of flagships/land grants and private schools.

Would Cincy still look out of place if it were immediately competitive in that Big XII North division? I recall that its ascendency in the old Big East was pretty impressive. During its seven years in that conference (when Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, and West Virginia were also members), Cincy won two conference football championships outright and shared in two others. UC's basketball program would be more than competitive in the Big XII, as well.

If you consider Kansas State, Colorado State, Iowa State, Texas Tech, and Oklahoma State to be flagship universities, then so is UC. With an enrollment of 46,000, It is, after all, the second largest state university in Ohio, a very high population state.

Cincinnati would be competitive in the Big XII, nobody is arguing that. But it would be the only true urban school in the conference. Its peers in the Big East/AAC were mostly in urban areas like Pittsburgh, Louisville, Tampa, Houston, Orlando, Philadelphia, Memphis, etc. In an expanded XII (based on The Dallas Morning News picks), Cincinnati would be surrounded by mostly public and private schools in college towns. Morgantown, Norman, Ames, Manhattan, Lawrence, Provo, Fort Collins, Storrs and Stillwater are in no way similar to Cincinnati (the city not the school). Not even Waco and Lubbock are close to a large urban feel. The only ones in the XII that have that are Austin and Ft Worth which have a flagship and a private school respectively.

So what? When you're sitting in a stadium on a beautiful campus watching a game, does it matter how large the city or town is just outside the gates?

Over its very long history, UC has hosted and visited opponents located in towns and cities of every size and description. I can't recall that any of them, either those from quaint little college towns or those from teeming metropolises, ever refused to play us because the populations of our surrounding communities differed.

If you're going to fish for red herrings, you're going to need a stronger line.

What are you talking about? Who's talking about schools refusing to schedule you or if you're a good fit or even be competitive in the two revenue sports? I think Cincinnati is a good fit for the Big XII. All I said is Cincinnati (the school) is truly different from a flagship institution like Kansas or a land grant school like Iowa State or a religious private school like Baylor which is what 90% of that new Big XII would be of. You'd be the only true urban school in the Big XII which is a good thing. That's not in any way, shape or form a knock on Cincinnati athletics and academics.