(05-04-2016 12:34 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  I understand that but if you wan your school to be able to compete (dollars/coaches/recruiting budgets) with your conference mates and other G5 conferences....

you still need to invest those dollars

If not don't complain (not you personally) about seeing a couple D2 games on the basketball schedule or only 5 home games in football every 3rd or 4th year. The AD has to spend what's budgeted and it's cheaper to schedule a D2 team for 15 to 20k than a low ranking D1 for 30 to 40k

a lot of people invest in things they don't attend regularly. A lot of people don't attend church regularly but you still give. Same with the gym. Same with Arts.

Right. I get it. Well put. I usually defer to the guys getting paid the big bucks to make those decisions, and if Todd or Ross or Wood do it then it is what is right for the school

(05-04-2016 11:44 AM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  NCAA credits(even MORE after recent increase) await the conference.C-USA must form a strategy.If necessary schools must cut some from non-revenue sports to invest in basketball-a sport that CAN bring in MONEY.

Even that is more difficult than you make it seem to be. Title IX prevents you from cutting funding to Women's sports to invest it in a Men's sport. That leaves the few non revenue Men's sports you have as options, and most non revenue sports already survive on peanuts, and work on shoestring budgets that only allow them enough to keep the team functioning.

Again, while this is a great idea in theory, you can't just make money appear, and you can't just take from a non revenue sport because chances are the amount you could take would be so marginal it would mean nothing.

The clear way to really improve a basketball program without help from major boosters is to take funds that normally go to football away and move it to basketball, or drop football altogether and throw that money at basketball. Those are things that you simply can't convince an FBS AD to do.

Chiefsfan,
WKU is cutting $700,000 from the Track and Field budget because of state budget cuts(Gov. does not know how to spend money wisely-so now we all suffer).
I like T and F and hate,really Hate to see this happen.Our teams have won several conference titles,national all-americans ,etc..It stinks.

You know why the AD cut that sport? Only men's BBALL and Football have a higher expenditure and they bring in revenue.Track does NOT.Very tough decision but had to be done.





NOW-let's say a school is not facing extreme cuts-how could an AD put more money into basketball(which could produce revenue)? Simple.But painful(see factual example above). I think $700,000 dollars would go a long way in most C-USA basketball budgets especially if targeted on recruiting or better assistant pay.
Title IX would not be brought into play since no scholarships are being cut.Also the men and women's side of T-F are being cut equally.

(05-05-2016 01:00 AM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  Chiefsfan,
WKU is cutting $700,000 from the Track and Field budget because of state budget cuts(Gov. does not know how to spend money wisely-so now we all suffer).
I like T and F and hate,really Hate to see this happen.Our teams have won several conference titles,national all-americans ,etc..It stinks.

You know why the AD cut that sport? Only men's BBALL and Football have a higher expenditure and they bring in revenue.Track does NOT.Very tough decision but had to be done.





NOW-let's say a school is not facing extreme cuts-how could an AD put more money into basketball(which could produce revenue)? Simple.But painful(see factual example above). I think $700,000 dollars would go a long way in most C-USA basketball budgets especially if targeted on recruiting or better assistant pay.
Title IX would not be brought into play since no scholarships are being cut.Also the men and women's side of T-F are being cut equally.

Where are you getting this info from? Its not in the WKU 2015-16 budget.
Below are the listed total budget for both programs along with the previous two years. So if cuts were made it was after Western submitted a 2015-16 budget

Men track and field

ORGN Total
681,040.08 2013-14 Expenditures (253,560.26 is tuition)
625,941.67 2014-15 budget (294,235.00 is tuition)
619,171.05 2015-16 budget (304,063.00 is tuition)


Women's Track & Field
ORGN Total
758,659.41 2013-14 Expenditures (302,283.54 is tuition)
718,580.38 2014-15 budget (326,928.00 is tuition)
755,752.37 2015-16 budget (337,848.00 is tuition)

edit: never mind I read the Herald story. But I don't know how you cut 50% without shutting down the program because tuition makes up 44% of the amount budgeted

(05-03-2016 02:33 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  -- The TV contract will be much less

-- COA has kicked in

-- Some states have cut budgets hurting several

-- Attendance is flat or down at some schools

-- The arms race continues as P5 and even some G5 advance


Schools with good leadership can make adjustments to deal with these facts on an individual basis---but there is only ONE,QUICK way to increase C-USA CASH FLOW-the NCAA TOURNAMENT!!

We can't rob a bank! WHERE else do we get the MONEY?!

It is PAST time for a conference plan of attack.

It can be done(see Atlantic 10).

Mandates,incentives,penalties,enforceable rules,investments must take place very soon or we will be so far behind I don't want to know.

MONEY.SIGNIFICANT MONEY is there for the conference to share.We must be aggressive and CHANGE to get our hands on it!


Meanwhile, SOME stubborn short-sighted AD's,coaches,"football only" fans and others need to get OUT OF THE WAY and let progress take place!!!

Big talk from an 8-seed.

(05-03-2016 02:33 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  -- The TV contract will be much less

-- COA has kicked in

-- Some states have cut budgets hurting several

-- Attendance is flat or down at some schools

-- The arms race continues as P5 and even some G5 advance


Schools with good leadership can make adjustments to deal with these facts on an individual basis---but there is only ONE,QUICK way to increase C-USA CASH FLOW-the NCAA TOURNAMENT!!

We can't rob a bank! WHERE else do we get the MONEY?!

It is PAST time for a conference plan of attack.

It can be done(see Atlantic 10).

Mandates,incentives,penalties,enforceable rules,investments must take place very soon or we will be so far behind I don't want to know.

MONEY.SIGNIFICANT MONEY is there for the conference to share.We must be aggressive and CHANGE to get our hands on it!


Meanwhile, SOME stubborn short-sighted AD's,coaches,"football only" fans and others need to get OUT OF THE WAY and let progress take place!!!

(05-03-2016 03:26 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  Maybe our fans can get off their butts and actually attend football and basketball games? No not just attend but INVEST in the program with season tickets. That is the only way to build a surefire increase into the budget.

We all talk a good game and make tons of excuses (most of all fans..not just Western) as to why we can't get off the couch.

Too long of a drive
Got to work
On a week day
Cost too much
Rather watch at home

Yep EXCUSES...every last one of them.

No one really cares (the AD who is making the budget...pr at least responsible for it) if you actually show up. THEY NEED YOUR MONEY!

If you want to help your school/sports programs stop making excuses. Well you can keep the excuses on why you don't show up. But buy season tickets. Buy the cheapo tickets if that's all you can afford....but at least show your support.

We all love to say.."I support my team" if you don't get off your ass and show up or at least buy the ticket...

YOU DO NOT SUPPORT YOUR TEAM

You are a fan. But no where in "support" does sitting your ass in front of your tv show SUPPORT. You are a fan and honestly in name only. INVEST in your schoo'l program and then you actually support it. I also call bullcrap on those that say...I can't afford to pay and not go. Bull...only a few really can't afford to save about .50 cents a day for a season ticket in football.

That's $182.

$182 X 3000 deadbeat couch "fans" makes up for $546,000

My biggest pet peeve in sports is G5 fans crying about the lack of TV money....then sit it out when they can actually SUPPORT their team. No one is stopping us from competing on that front. Well that is only a bunch of crying ass complaining supp...fans

I'm a deadbeat couch fan, and I HATE basketball.
I must piss you guys off really bad.
It's not that I can't afford the tickets either. I only go when I get them for free. It still costs a crap load to go with concessions when you factor in the family.
I also have not and will not donate a cent to athletics. Academics is another story.
I cheer on the kids and wish them all success that's good enough for me.

(05-04-2016 09:31 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(05-04-2016 11:44 AM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  NCAA credits(even MORE after recent increase) await the conference.C-USA must form a strategy.If necessary schools must cut some from non-revenue sports to invest in basketball-a sport that CAN bring in MONEY.

Even that is more difficult than you make it seem to be. Title IX prevents you from cutting funding to Women's sports to invest it in a Men's sport. That leaves the few non revenue Men's sports you have as options, and most non revenue sports already survive on peanuts, and work on shoestring budgets that only allow them enough to keep the team functioning.

Again, while this is a great idea in theory, you can't just make money appear, and you can't just take from a non revenue sport because chances are the amount you could take would be so marginal it would mean nothing.

The clear way to really improve a basketball program without help from major boosters is to take funds that normally go to football away and move it to basketball, or drop football altogether and throw that money at basketball. Those are things that you simply can't convince an FBS AD to do.

Title IX doesn't have anything to do with the amount of money you spend per sport only the number of scholarships available. If CUSA as a whole dropped, for the sake of argument, soccer, there is nothing saying that they couldn't take every dime of that money and reinvest it in men's basketball.

(05-03-2016 04:35 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(05-03-2016 04:27 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  Eigen Eagle wrote---"The Atlantic 10 is strong because they invited strong basketball programs into their conference. They didn't just build something out of nothing or coerce their members into being better at basketball."

I disagree.While the A10 did add some strong programs they also instituted a very complicated plan with specific scheduling requirements.


They ALSO did "targeted" scheduling WITHIN their league with stronger teams playing twice and top teams playing lower ones just once.

C-USA has SEVERAL schools with a lot of tradition and support for round ball and has the same potential.

For more details on A10 strategy just ask the CHARLOTTE posters.Multiple A10 bids didn't just "happen".

This is true. ODU actually turned down the A10 in the 90s because it wasn't much better than the CAA the time. Now look at it. The CAA built itself from a 1 bid league to a frequent two, and sometimes three bid league. If ODU, VCU and GMU hadn't left it would be as good as the A10 now. Those two conferences prove it can be done. The trick is to keep the best members from jumping ship to perceived better opportunities once the conference gets some clout. Thats what killed the CAA, and CUSA as well. If CUSA still had Tulsa, Tulane or ECU (the last three to jump ship) we'd be better in both sports for example. If we are able to build this conference, and its possible to do, we should all commit to staying once its done.

Hahahaha. Tulane and ECU, making us better? ODU sure stengthened cusa too. Come on guys. Cusa played the "tv market" game, and lost. Thats what killed cusa. Instead of inviting established and strong programs in other smaller conferences, cusa (for the most part) invited "potential" and 2 freaking start up programs! WKU, La Tech and MTSU were good adds, can argue for ODU. Outside of that, disaster.

(05-08-2016 07:18 AM)GhentFan Wrote:  

(05-03-2016 02:33 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  -- The TV contract will be much less

-- COA has kicked in

-- Some states have cut budgets hurting several

-- Attendance is flat or down at some schools

-- The arms race continues as P5 and even some G5 advance


Schools with good leadership can make adjustments to deal with these facts on an individual basis---but there is only ONE,QUICK way to increase C-USA CASH FLOW-the NCAA TOURNAMENT!!

We can't rob a bank! WHERE else do we get the MONEY?!

It is PAST time for a conference plan of attack.

It can be done(see Atlantic 10).

Mandates,incentives,penalties,enforceable rules,investments must take place very soon or we will be so far behind I don't want to know.

MONEY.SIGNIFICANT MONEY is there for the conference to share.We must be aggressive and CHANGE to get our hands on it!


Meanwhile, SOME stubborn short-sighted AD's,coaches,"football only" fans and others need to get OUT OF THE WAY and let progress take place!!!

(05-03-2016 03:26 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  Maybe our fans can get off their butts and actually attend football and basketball games? No not just attend but INVEST in the program with season tickets. That is the only way to build a surefire increase into the budget.

We all talk a good game and make tons of excuses (most of all fans..not just Western) as to why we can't get off the couch.

Too long of a drive
Got to work
On a week day
Cost too much
Rather watch at home

Yep EXCUSES...every last one of them.

No one really cares (the AD who is making the budget...pr at least responsible for it) if you actually show up. THEY NEED YOUR MONEY!

If you want to help your school/sports programs stop making excuses. Well you can keep the excuses on why you don't show up. But buy season tickets. Buy the cheapo tickets if that's all you can afford....but at least show your support.

We all love to say.."I support my team" if you don't get off your ass and show up or at least buy the ticket...

YOU DO NOT SUPPORT YOUR TEAM

You are a fan. But no where in "support" does sitting your ass in front of your tv show SUPPORT. You are a fan and honestly in name only. INVEST in your schoo'l program and then you actually support it. I also call bullcrap on those that say...I can't afford to pay and not go. Bull...only a few really can't afford to save about .50 cents a day for a season ticket in football.

That's $182.

$182 X 3000 deadbeat couch "fans" makes up for $546,000

My biggest pet peeve in sports is G5 fans crying about the lack of TV money....then sit it out when they can actually SUPPORT their team. No one is stopping us from competing on that front. Well that is only a bunch of crying ass complaining supp...fans

I'm a deadbeat couch fan, and I HATE basketball.
I must piss you guys off really bad.
It's not that I can't afford the tickets either. I only go when I get them for free. It still costs a crap load to go with concessions when you factor in the family.
I also have not and will not donate a cent to athletics. Academics is another story.
I cheer on the kids and wish them all success that's good enough for me.

I have a question for you...

why are you saying this on a sports messageboard. It's obvious you don't care if your team wins or loses. And if you really do...

yes I hate 'fans' like you. Bltch and complain about everything and not support your school in the most fundamental way that can help them. As for you not going because of the high price of concessions...

your fat ass doesn't have to eat everytime you smell or see food. I really don't know if you are fat or not but going by your words I assume you are. You do know it's OK to go 2 hours without eating junk food or drink a coke? Same for your family....it's OK to say NO, you don't need that. Or buy them something cheaper before getting to the game..or after.

It's two freaking hours well add 15-30 since getting there early is possible and your biggest complaint is the concessions prices..

I've been to a ODU home basketball game...you are the rare fan. 8000+ sure didn't care that hotdog and coke cost them $9. Or maybe they ate before or after.

(05-08-2016 08:02 AM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:  

(05-04-2016 09:31 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(05-04-2016 11:44 AM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  NCAA credits(even MORE after recent increase) await the conference.C-USA must form a strategy.If necessary schools must cut some from non-revenue sports to invest in basketball-a sport that CAN bring in MONEY.

Even that is more difficult than you make it seem to be. Title IX prevents you from cutting funding to Women's sports to invest it in a Men's sport. That leaves the few non revenue Men's sports you have as options, and most non revenue sports already survive on peanuts, and work on shoestring budgets that only allow them enough to keep the team functioning.

Again, while this is a great idea in theory, you can't just make money appear, and you can't just take from a non revenue sport because chances are the amount you could take would be so marginal it would mean nothing.

The clear way to really improve a basketball program without help from major boosters is to take funds that normally go to football away and move it to basketball, or drop football altogether and throw that money at basketball. Those are things that you simply can't convince an FBS AD to do.

Title IX doesn't have anything to do with the amount of money you spend per sport only the number of scholarships available. If CUSA as a whole dropped, for the sake of argument, soccer, there is nothing saying that they couldn't take every dime of that money and reinvest it in men's basketball.

Money does matter on Title IX at least if you are talking about sports played by both sexes. One can't send 1 million and the other spend 200k on the funding. It doesn't have to be the same but similar.

Below is Western's budget for basketball and golf















mens golf





Ladytopper golf

Only way to increase our basketball revenue is to split into 2 separate conferences with only 10 teams each.

Then that single auto bid is only split up 10 ways instead of 14.

(05-08-2016 10:36 AM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  

(05-03-2016 04:35 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(05-03-2016 04:27 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  Eigen Eagle wrote---"The Atlantic 10 is strong because they invited strong basketball programs into their conference. They didn't just build something out of nothing or coerce their members into being better at basketball."

I disagree.While the A10 did add some strong programs they also instituted a very complicated plan with specific scheduling requirements.


They ALSO did "targeted" scheduling WITHIN their league with stronger teams playing twice and top teams playing lower ones just once.

C-USA has SEVERAL schools with a lot of tradition and support for round ball and has the same potential.

For more details on A10 strategy just ask the CHARLOTTE posters.Multiple A10 bids didn't just "happen".

This is true. ODU actually turned down the A10 in the 90s because it wasn't much better than the CAA the time. Now look at it. The CAA built itself from a 1 bid league to a frequent two, and sometimes three bid league. If ODU, VCU and GMU hadn't left it would be as good as the A10 now. Those two conferences prove it can be done. The trick is to keep the best members from jumping ship to perceived better opportunities once the conference gets some clout. Thats what killed the CAA, and CUSA as well. If CUSA still had Tulsa, Tulane or ECU (the last three to jump ship) we'd be better in both sports for example. If we are able to build this conference, and its possible to do, we should all commit to staying once its done.

Hahahaha. Tulane and ECU, making us better? ODU sure stengthened cusa too. Come on guys. Cusa played the "tv market" game, and lost. Thats what killed cusa. Instead of inviting established and strong programs in other smaller conferences, cusa (for the most part) invited "potential" and 2 freaking start up programs! WKU, La Tech and MTSU were good adds, can argue for ODU. Outside of that, disaster.

I'm so glad that someone else gets it.

The day the top half of conference starts winning >80% OOC and bottom half doesn't lose to D-2 schools and atleast half of the arena gets filled at each school is when I see things going the right direction until then we carry the torch of suckitude

(05-08-2016 10:43 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  I have a question for you...

why are you saying this on a sports messageboard. It's obvious you don't care if your team wins or loses. And if you really do...

yes I hate 'fans' like you. Bltch and complain about everything and not support your school in the most fundamental way that can help them. As for you not going because of the high price of concessions...

your fat ass doesn't have to eat everytime you smell or see food. I really don't know if you are fat or not but going by your words I assume you are. You do know it's OK to go 2 hours without eating junk food or drink a coke? Same for your family....it's OK to say NO, you don't need that. Or buy them something cheaper before getting to the game..or after.

It's two freaking hours well add 15-30 since getting there early is possible and your biggest complaint is the concessions prices..

I've been to a ODU home basketball game...you are the rare fan. 8000+ sure didn't care that hotdog and coke cost them $9. Or maybe they ate before or after.

I'm on the message board as I root for the sports team.
I simply refuse to use pay the high prices for tickets. The tickets should reflect the quality of the product I'm paying to see.

I root for the kids playing, but I personally feel that the money in these programs needs to be scaled way back. Or split the sports teams away from the schools and have them be self funding, dropping the fees forced upon students to try and keep these programs afloat for simply attending their local university in the process.

I don't know if you are a pro sports fan or not, but I'm assuming you don't donate thousands of dollars to your local pro team.

Do you hear me complaining? Look in my history and you won't find much of it. In fact you'll see I'm pretty vocal as to how insane the funding of sports has become, yet it's still not enough in your eyes.

I appreciate the diet advice. I'm not a fatty but thank you. We've never met but you are looking out for your fellow man. The food and drink have a high profit margin. That money supports the programs. Minor league teams get a majority of their money from food and drink sales. Tickets make a small fraction. So, really who is supporting the team more? You or me?

Giving to the athletic department or buying tickets is NOT the most fundamental way to support my school. I think you may have forgotten that the role of the schools are to educate the kids. Funds finding their ways to tutor programs, research grants, buying lab equipment and other items that will improve the education of these kids is more fundamental.
Better educated kids = better jobs = higher salaries = bigger donations to the school.

(05-03-2016 03:26 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  We all talk a good game and make tons of excuses (most of all fans..not just Western) as to why we can't get off the couch.

Too long of a drive
Got to work
On a week day
Cost too much
Rather watch at home

Yep EXCUSES...every last one of them.

No one really cares (the AD who is making the budget...pr at least responsible for it) if you actually show up. THEY NEED YOUR MONEY!

If you want to help your school/sports programs stop making excuses. Well you can keep the excuses on why you don't show up. But buy season tickets. Buy the cheapo tickets if that's all you can afford....but at least show your support.

We all love to say.."I support my team" if you don't get off your ass and show up or at least buy the ticket...

The "excuses" you point out... that's life. People have other commitments.
Say I was a fan of... Boise, or USC. You want me to buy a ticket to a game that is on the other side of the country? I can simply watch the game on TV, and the revenue will find it's way to the school.

My Uncle is like you. He throws all his money towards his team to support them. Crazy die hard fan. Good for him, but he's got nothing to show for it except a wall of framed tickets.

WKU has an Athletic budget of $23 Million with a total of 442 students.

Spending $52,000 per student athlete isn't enough for you? Seriously?

Your schools operating budget is $396 Million and you have roughly 21k students enrolled. That's $19,000 being spent per student.

Your sports teams are funded enough and have fallen way out of line as to what the mission of your SCHOOL is supposed to be doing.
WKU has a $218 fee per semester per student to support the athletics. (P.11) How many of the students there couldn't care less about WKU's sports teams, yet are being forced to pay to support the programs?

Stick4489 (Marshall fan) wrote-"Big talk from an 8-seed."


What does the fact that WKU was an "8" this year have to do with the original post ?

The OP was a statement about how the conference needs to tap into NCAA tourney money in a bigger way to offset the lower TV contract.This would benefit the conference as a whole--including MARSHALL.I have a lot of respect for all the Herd teams and am proud to be in the same conference.

My main point in starting this thread was to say the conference needs to take action immediately to strengthen basketball and the result will be more NCAA units for ALL of the schools to share.