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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #41
RE: More in regards to the ACCN...
(04-30-2016 12:48 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  The people who seem to think the ACC is no better off than the BigXII are typically fans of schools in the BigXII (namely WVU) and UConn fans. Wonder what those two have in common...hmmm.....

Or, maybe it's just that (a) the Big 12 has a better bowl lineup than the ACC, and (b) the Big 12 has a better media deal than the ACC?

I mean, since "Power" status is basically reflected in bowl lineups and media deals, facts like those could possibly cause anyone who isn't a dyed-wool ACC Fanboy to conclude that the ACC is "no better off" than the Big 12, right?

As for the ACCN, why isn't skepticism about optimism expressed by ACC schools justified when (a) member schools tend to be optimistic no matter what so they aren't necessarily an objective source, and (b) this ACCN has allegedly been "just around the corner" for about 4-5 years now?
(This post was last modified: 05-01-2016 10:43 AM by quo vadis.)
05-01-2016 10:38 AM
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Rabbit_in_Red Offline
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Post: #42
RE: More in regards to the ACCN...
People knew going into talks that getting the rights back to all things ACC would be more intensive than for the rights to all things SEC. Things are playing out about on track, and all the updates all seem to point that way. The folks who think otherwise all post on message boards.

As for strength, again...look at who the BigXII lost and gained vs. who the ACC lost and gained and it's not even close. The BigXII is a dead conference walking. Again, about the only people that don't believe that are message board posters or live in either Texas or West Virginia.

Anyhow, as I've said before...I expected haters in this thread Quo, so I expected you. Hey, it's cool. If I were a South Florida fan, I'd find other things to do, like troll message boards, to take my mind off of how much my school sucked too.
05-01-2016 12:42 PM
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UTEPDallas Offline
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Post: #43
RE: More in regards to the ACCN...
(05-01-2016 12:42 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  People knew going into talks that getting the rights back to all things ACC would be more intensive than for the rights to all things SEC. Things are playing out about on track, and all the updates all seem to point that way. The folks who think otherwise all post on message boards.

As for strength, again...look at who the BigXII lost and gained vs. who the ACC lost and gained and it's not even close. The BigXII is a dead conference walking. Again, about the only people that don't believe that are message board posters or live in either Texas or West Virginia.

Anyhow, as I've said before...I expected haters in this thread Quo, so I expected you. Hey, it's cool. If I were a South Florida fan, I'd find other things to do, like troll message boards, to take my mind off of how much my school sucked too.

The Big XII lost a lot. Nobody can deny that. But if we're comparing what the XII and ACC got as replacements for football only purposes, are you really comparing TCU and West Virginia football to Pitt, Syracuse and Louisville football? WVU alone won 3 BCS bowls and TCU went and won the Rose as a nonAQ. From top to bottom, the Big XII is stronger and I can say this as an outsider with no bias and homerism. The only thing you have is hoops but it's not like the XII lacks any strength in that sport either.
05-01-2016 01:37 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #44
RE: More in regards to the ACCN...
(05-01-2016 01:37 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(05-01-2016 12:42 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  People knew going into talks that getting the rights back to all things ACC would be more intensive than for the rights to all things SEC. Things are playing out about on track, and all the updates all seem to point that way. The folks who think otherwise all post on message boards.

As for strength, again...look at who the BigXII lost and gained vs. who the ACC lost and gained and it's not even close. The BigXII is a dead conference walking. Again, about the only people that don't believe that are message board posters or live in either Texas or West Virginia.

Anyhow, as I've said before...I expected haters in this thread Quo, so I expected you. Hey, it's cool. If I were a South Florida fan, I'd find other things to do, like troll message boards, to take my mind off of how much my school sucked too.

The Big XII lost a lot. Nobody can deny that. But if we're comparing what the XII and ACC got as replacements for football only purposes, are you really comparing TCU and West Virginia football to Pitt, Syracuse and Louisville football? WVU alone won 3 BCS bowls and TCU went and won the Rose as a nonAQ. From top to bottom, the Big XII is stronger and I can say this as an outsider with no bias and homerism. The only thing you have is hoops but it's not like the XII lacks any strength in that sport either.

FWIW, SU has a winning head-to-head against WVU and is on a 3 game winning streak.

Admittedly, SU is and has been down. But even then, Dino is a heck of a coach and SU plays in a Dome, which should fit his offense well.
05-01-2016 01:40 PM
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Maize Offline
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Post: #45
RE: More in regards to the ACCN...
This is a silly argument in this thread...point blank both the ACC & Big XII are on the same level...both very rich but both very much behind the SEC/B1G.

No ACC school at this point would leave for the Big XII and the only Big XII school at this point that would leave the Big XII for the ACC is maybe WVU due to geography
(This post was last modified: 05-01-2016 01:48 PM by Maize.)
05-01-2016 01:48 PM
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UTEPDallas Offline
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Post: #46
RE: More in regards to the ACCN...
(05-01-2016 01:40 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(05-01-2016 01:37 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(05-01-2016 12:42 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  People knew going into talks that getting the rights back to all things ACC would be more intensive than for the rights to all things SEC. Things are playing out about on track, and all the updates all seem to point that way. The folks who think otherwise all post on message boards.

As for strength, again...look at who the BigXII lost and gained vs. who the ACC lost and gained and it's not even close. The BigXII is a dead conference walking. Again, about the only people that don't believe that are message board posters or live in either Texas or West Virginia.

Anyhow, as I've said before...I expected haters in this thread Quo, so I expected you. Hey, it's cool. If I were a South Florida fan, I'd find other things to do, like troll message boards, to take my mind off of how much my school sucked too.

The Big XII lost a lot. Nobody can deny that. But if we're comparing what the XII and ACC got as replacements for football only purposes, are you really comparing TCU and West Virginia football to Pitt, Syracuse and Louisville football? WVU alone won 3 BCS bowls and TCU went and won the Rose as a nonAQ. From top to bottom, the Big XII is stronger and I can say this as an outsider with no bias and homerism. The only thing you have is hoops but it's not like the XII lacks any strength in that sport either.

FWIW, SU has a winning head-to-head against WVU and is on a 3 game winning streak.

Admittedly, SU is and has been down. But even then, Dino is a heck of a coach and SU plays in a Dome, which should fit his offense well.

Nobody is denying Syracuse or Pitt's history. But if we go back to the start of the BCS era (incoming freshmen were born on its first year, 1998) which can be seen as an eternity for some, it's WVU and TCU's record the ones that stand up. TCU's rise is remarkable since they were left for dead and were conference nomads until they got their promotion in the Big XII. The only recent ACC addition that can claim that is Louisville.
05-01-2016 01:54 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #47
RE: More in regards to the ACCN...
(05-01-2016 01:54 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(05-01-2016 01:40 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(05-01-2016 01:37 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(05-01-2016 12:42 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  People knew going into talks that getting the rights back to all things ACC would be more intensive than for the rights to all things SEC. Things are playing out about on track, and all the updates all seem to point that way. The folks who think otherwise all post on message boards.

As for strength, again...look at who the BigXII lost and gained vs. who the ACC lost and gained and it's not even close. The BigXII is a dead conference walking. Again, about the only people that don't believe that are message board posters or live in either Texas or West Virginia.

Anyhow, as I've said before...I expected haters in this thread Quo, so I expected you. Hey, it's cool. If I were a South Florida fan, I'd find other things to do, like troll message boards, to take my mind off of how much my school sucked too.

The Big XII lost a lot. Nobody can deny that. But if we're comparing what the XII and ACC got as replacements for football only purposes, are you really comparing TCU and West Virginia football to Pitt, Syracuse and Louisville football? WVU alone won 3 BCS bowls and TCU went and won the Rose as a nonAQ. From top to bottom, the Big XII is stronger and I can say this as an outsider with no bias and homerism. The only thing you have is hoops but it's not like the XII lacks any strength in that sport either.

FWIW, SU has a winning head-to-head against WVU and is on a 3 game winning streak.

Admittedly, SU is and has been down. But even then, Dino is a heck of a coach and SU plays in a Dome, which should fit his offense well.

Nobody is denying Syracuse or Pitt's history. But if we go back to the start of the BCS era (incoming freshmen were born on its first year, 1998) which can be seen as an eternity for some, it's WVU and TCU's record the ones that stand up. TCU's rise is remarkable since they were left for dead and were conference nomads until they got their promotion in the Big XII. The only recent ACC addition that can claim that is Louisville.

I don't completely disagree that WVU has had a better last 18 years. They have. My only point is that the WVU of the mid '00's with RR as coach is gone. WVU probably has a better team right now, but the difference isn't huge. Like I said SU is on a 3 game winning streak. And, I think that there's a high probability that SU will trend upwards and WVU will hold level.

As for Pitt, I think that Pitt could take WVU. I really like the direction of their program.
05-01-2016 01:58 PM
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Post: #48
RE: More in regards to the ACCN...
(05-01-2016 01:48 PM)Maize Wrote:  This is a silly argument in this thread...point blank both the ACC & Big XII are on the same level...both very rich but both very much behind the SEC/B1G.

No ACC school at this point would leave for the Big XII and the only Big XII school at this point that would leave the Big XII for the ACC is maybe WVU due to geography

Why would WVU do that? They can wait and see how the next round of realignment is going to affect either the ACC or Big XII. It's not like they're making peanuts in their TV deal or their current home lacks any football strength to make such a desperate move. They have more in common with the schools in Kansas, Iowa and Oklahoma than most of the ACC except for maybe Virginia Tech and Clemson. Nobody is making a move until the SEC and B1G decide to strike.
05-01-2016 02:03 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #49
RE: More in regards to the ACCN...
(05-01-2016 12:42 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  As for strength, again...look at who the BigXII lost and gained vs. who the ACC lost and gained and it's not even close.

The Big 12 has surely lost more net than the ACC. But what matters is where they are at right now, after the gains and losses. And where they are right now is:

a) Big 12 has better bowls.

b) Big 12 has better media deal.

You ACC fanboys can wake me up when either of those changes. 07-coffee3
05-01-2016 02:04 PM
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Rabbit_in_Red Offline
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RE: More in regards to the ACCN...
BigXII has fewer teams, and the "big two" of the conference are publicly fighting. You say what you want, but the BigXII lost members like rats leaving a sinking ship and are poised to lose more. There's just no denying that. It's no small secret that Oklahoma is looking and likely Kansas as well...You just don't hear that level of discontent from ACC members.
05-01-2016 02:08 PM
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UTEPDallas Offline
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Post: #51
RE: More in regards to the ACCN...
(05-01-2016 01:58 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(05-01-2016 01:54 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(05-01-2016 01:40 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(05-01-2016 01:37 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(05-01-2016 12:42 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  People knew going into talks that getting the rights back to all things ACC would be more intensive than for the rights to all things SEC. Things are playing out about on track, and all the updates all seem to point that way. The folks who think otherwise all post on message boards.

As for strength, again...look at who the BigXII lost and gained vs. who the ACC lost and gained and it's not even close. The BigXII is a dead conference walking. Again, about the only people that don't believe that are message board posters or live in either Texas or West Virginia.

Anyhow, as I've said before...I expected haters in this thread Quo, so I expected you. Hey, it's cool. If I were a South Florida fan, I'd find other things to do, like troll message boards, to take my mind off of how much my school sucked too.

The Big XII lost a lot. Nobody can deny that. But if we're comparing what the XII and ACC got as replacements for football only purposes, are you really comparing TCU and West Virginia football to Pitt, Syracuse and Louisville football? WVU alone won 3 BCS bowls and TCU went and won the Rose as a nonAQ. From top to bottom, the Big XII is stronger and I can say this as an outsider with no bias and homerism. The only thing you have is hoops but it's not like the XII lacks any strength in that sport either.

FWIW, SU has a winning head-to-head against WVU and is on a 3 game winning streak.

Admittedly, SU is and has been down. But even then, Dino is a heck of a coach and SU plays in a Dome, which should fit his offense well.

Nobody is denying Syracuse or Pitt's history. But if we go back to the start of the BCS era (incoming freshmen were born on its first year, 1998) which can be seen as an eternity for some, it's WVU and TCU's record the ones that stand up. TCU's rise is remarkable since they were left for dead and were conference nomads until they got their promotion in the Big XII. The only recent ACC addition that can claim that is Louisville.

I don't completely disagree that WVU has had a better last 18 years. They have. My only point is that the WVU of the mid '00's with RR as coach is gone. WVU probably has a better team right now, but the difference isn't huge. Like I said SU is on a 3 game winning streak. And, I think that there's a high probability that SU will trend upwards and WVU will hold level.

As for Pitt, I think that Pitt could take WVU. I really like the direction of their program.

That and the fact that the Big East's traditional powers (SU and Pitt) were down at the time with Louisvile being the only challenger but even they fell when they hired the Tulsa coach. Cincy replaced Louisville under Kelly and won some conference championships but WVU had an easier path to the BCS than most of its peers in the other AQ leagues. But they proved their worth in beating the Big XII, SEC and ACC champs in the BCS.
05-01-2016 02:10 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #52
RE: More in regards to the ACCN...
(05-01-2016 02:10 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  That and the fact that the Big East's traditional powers (SU and Pitt) were down at the time with Louisvile being the only challenger but even they fell when they hired the Tulsa coach. Cincy replaced Louisville under Kelly and won some conference championships but WVU had an easier path to the BCS than most of its peers in the other AQ leagues. But they proved their worth in beating the Big XII, SEC and ACC champs in the BCS.

RR fielded elite teams. There's no doubt about that.

But FWIW, the BE was better than people gave it credit for. UC fielded some great teams. I know Tebo beat them handily, but UF was the #2 team in the country in my eyes, and there was a gap between #2 and #3. UC didn't look any worse than all but a handful of teams would have.
05-01-2016 02:17 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #53
RE: More in regards to the ACCN...
(05-01-2016 02:17 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(05-01-2016 02:10 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  That and the fact that the Big East's traditional powers (SU and Pitt) were down at the time with Louisvile being the only challenger but even they fell when they hired the Tulsa coach. Cincy replaced Louisville under Kelly and won some conference championships but WVU had an easier path to the BCS than most of its peers in the other AQ leagues. But they proved their worth in beating the Big XII, SEC and ACC champs in the BCS.

RR fielded elite teams. There's no doubt about that.

But FWIW, the BE was better than people gave it credit for.

Yes. Big East football from 2005 - 2011 was constantly derided by the media and the other football conferences, but truth is, the numbers show that across those years the Big East was at least as good as the ACC, and better than the B1G. It earned its AQ status on the field:

http://csnbbs.com/thread-568673.html
(This post was last modified: 05-01-2016 02:38 PM by quo vadis.)
05-01-2016 02:22 PM
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UTEPDallas Offline
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Post: #54
RE: More in regards to the ACCN...
(05-01-2016 02:08 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  BigXII has fewer teams, and the "big two" of the conference are publicly fighting. You say what you want, but the BigXII lost members like rats leaving a sinking ship and are poised to lose more. There's just no denying that. It's no small secret that Oklahoma is looking and likely Kansas as well...You just don't hear that level of discontent from ACC members.

Obviously you don't know anything about Texas (the school not the state or perhaps both). Oklahoma is on record saying they value their relationship with Texas and it's in their best interests to stay in the same conference. The UT-OU rivalry is easily a top 5 rivalry in college football and both fanbases circle the game in Dallas as a must attend event. They won't do anything to jeopardize.

Texas is a control freak, they like to dictate terms and be a decision maker in conference affairs. In other words, they like to be the cool and hot girl who has an entourage of less attractive friends catering to her needs with no opposition with a snap of a finger. They don't want to lose that power in going to let's say the Big Ten and having the likes of Iowa and Rutgers being as equals and being a team player. They won't be able do the same to Delany, Slive and Scott like they do with the current XII commissioner. Texas doesn't need the money and exposure the B1G and SEC offer. They're the wealthiest and hottest athletic program in the nation (as much as I hate to admit it). True, Oklahoma and Kansas might have options but Oklahoma can't afford to lose its exposure in Texas to go alone to the Big Ten. They only need to look at Nebraska to see how a once proud program is rich but irrelevant. The other 7 don't have any options so they'll do what Texas says and be part of the P5 cartel or risk being the next UConn, Cincy and USF.
05-01-2016 02:30 PM
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RE: More in regards to the ACCN...
Please. You really think rivalries mean **** in the realignment landscape? C'mon man, don't be that naive. Oklahoma's wanting out, same as A&M, Nebraska, Mizzou, and Colorado. Can we please stop acting like the BigXII's on sure footing, because unless you live in WVU or Texas (or Quo) I don't think anyone on this board is that freakin' stupid. It's a conference cobbled together at this point out of desperation.
05-01-2016 02:36 PM
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UTEPDallas Offline
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RE: More in regards to the ACCN...
(05-01-2016 02:17 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(05-01-2016 02:10 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  That and the fact that the Big East's traditional powers (SU and Pitt) were down at the time with Louisvile being the only challenger but even they fell when they hired the Tulsa coach. Cincy replaced Louisville under Kelly and won some conference championships but WVU had an easier path to the BCS than most of its peers in the other AQ leagues. But they proved their worth in beating the Big XII, SEC and ACC champs in the BCS.

RR fielded elite teams. There's no doubt about that.

But FWIW, the BE was better than people gave it credit for. UC fielded some great teams. I know Tebo beat them handily, but UF was the #2 team in the country in my eyes, and there was a gap between #2 and #3. UC didn't look any worse than all but a handful of teams would have.

I always rooted for the Big East. I always considered it underrated and they always proved their worth compared to the richer and overrated ACC. And it was the strongest basketball league ever. That's why I feel bad for UConn, Cincy and USF fans. Having all that and now they're stuck in a glorified version of C-USA
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Post: #57
RE: More in regards to the ACCN...
(05-01-2016 02:03 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(05-01-2016 01:48 PM)Maize Wrote:  This is a silly argument in this thread...point blank both the ACC & Big XII are on the same level...both very rich but both very much behind the SEC/B1G.

No ACC school at this point would leave for the Big XII and the only Big XII school at this point that would leave the Big XII for the ACC is maybe WVU due to geography

Why would WVU do that? They can wait and see how the next round of realignment is going to affect either the ACC or Big XII. It's not like they're making peanuts in their TV deal or their current home lacks any football strength to make such a desperate move. They have more in common with the schools in Kansas, Iowa and Oklahoma than most of the ACC except for maybe Virginia Tech and Clemson. Nobody is making a move until the SEC and B1G decide to strike.

Reread what it said..,"Key Word is MAYBE" in regards to WVU...07-coffee3
05-01-2016 02:40 PM
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Maize Offline
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Post: #58
RE: More in regards to the ACCN...
(05-01-2016 02:22 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(05-01-2016 02:17 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(05-01-2016 02:10 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  That and the fact that the Big East's traditional powers (SU and Pitt) were down at the time with Louisvile being the only challenger but even they fell when they hired the Tulsa coach. Cincy replaced Louisville under Kelly and won some conference championships but WVU had an easier path to the BCS than most of its peers in the other AQ leagues. But they proved their worth in beating the Big XII, SEC and ACC champs in the BCS.

RR fielded elite teams. There's no doubt about that.

But FWIW, the BE was better than people gave it credit for.

Yes. Big East football from 2005 - 2011 was constantly derided by the media and the other football conferences, but truth is, the numbers show that across those years the Big East was at least as good as the ACC, and better than the B1G. It earned its AQ status on the field:

http://csnbbs.com/thread-568673.html

Head to Head against the other than BCS Leagues the old BIG EAST more than held it own in both the regular season and bowl games...but without a tentpole football program it was dead conference walking
05-01-2016 02:43 PM
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UTEPDallas Offline
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Post: #59
RE: More in regards to the ACCN...
(05-01-2016 02:36 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  Please. You really think rivalries mean **** in the realignment landscape? C'mon man, don't be that naive. Oklahoma's wanting out, same as A&M, Nebraska, Mizzou, and Colorado. Can we please stop acting like the BigXII's on sure footing, because unless you live in WVU or Texas (or Quo) I don't think anyone on this board is that freakin' stupid. It's a conference cobbled together at this point out of desperation.

The XII is on sure footing as long as the hottest property of them all (Texas) is there. Oklahoma can throw any fit they want, fact is they only need to look at Nebraska or even a better example Arkansas and see how irrelevant they have become. Richer, yes, and irrelevant. Another thing, they have the Ok State issue. Do you really think billionaire T Picken Boones will stay idle while OU goes and OkSt stays? I'm sure Kansas has the same issue. The Big Ten told Texas they had a "Tech problem" and the Pac-12 wants nothing to do with Kenneth Start led Baylor. If Oklahoma and Kansas had the chance to leave as everybody claims, they would've done so a long time ago. But it's not as easy as it sounds.
05-01-2016 02:48 PM
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UTEPDallas Offline
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RE: More in regards to the ACCN...
(05-01-2016 02:40 PM)Maize Wrote:  
(05-01-2016 02:03 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(05-01-2016 01:48 PM)Maize Wrote:  This is a silly argument in this thread...point blank both the ACC & Big XII are on the same level...both very rich but both very much behind the SEC/B1G.

No ACC school at this point would leave for the Big XII and the only Big XII school at this point that would leave the Big XII for the ACC is maybe WVU due to geography

Why would WVU do that? They can wait and see how the next round of realignment is going to affect either the ACC or Big XII. It's not like they're making peanuts in their TV deal or their current home lacks any football strength to make such a desperate move. They have more in common with the schools in Kansas, Iowa and Oklahoma than most of the ACC except for maybe Virginia Tech and Clemson. Nobody is making a move until the SEC and B1G decide to strike.

Reread what it said..,"Key Word is MAYBE" in regards to WVU...07-coffee3

And that was my response to your "maybe"
05-01-2016 02:48 PM
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