If UNC and Virginia come into play watch the SEC throw everything at those two schools to get them in the fold. These are the two schools they have wanted for years, and it would surprise me to see them garner signing bonuses and other money enticed incentives much like professional athletes when signing contracts etc. This would complete the SEC as the first Super Regional Conference standing at 16 teams. Most likely NOT the final number conferences will stop at, but one that can be worked with.

(04-27-2016 11:43 AM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  If UNC and Virginia come into play watch the SEC throw everything at those two schools to get them in the fold. These are the two schools they have wanted for years, and it would surprise me to see them garner signing bonuses and other money enticed incentives much like professional athletes when signing contracts etc. This would complete the SEC as the first Super Regional Conference standing at 16 teams. Most likely NOT the final number conferences will stop at, but one that can be worked with.

You could not be more wrong.

(04-27-2016 12:54 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(04-27-2016 11:43 AM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  If UNC and Virginia come into play watch the SEC throw everything at those two schools to get them in the fold. These are the two schools they have wanted for years, and it would surprise me to see them garner signing bonuses and other money enticed incentives much like professional athletes when signing contracts etc. This would complete the SEC as the first Super Regional Conference standing at 16 teams. Most likely NOT the final number conferences will stop at, but one that can be worked with.

You could not be more wrong.

I completely agree with lumberpack, UNC and UVA are who both the $ec and b1g want extremely bad, but that will never happen because both schools LOVE the ACC and would rather be the "Big Fish" in their own neighborhood than just another guppy in the other ones. And unlike maryland, they both have a TON of money.
FLossY Out...

(04-27-2016 10:02 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-27-2016 08:36 AM)ren.hoek Wrote:  West Division - Iowa State, Kansas, KState, OU, T. Boone Pickens, Houston, SMU, TCU
East Division - Pitt, WVU, Louisville, VT, NCSU, Clemson, GT, FSU

(04-27-2016 09:33 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  West: Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, TT, Baylor, Iowa St, Kansas (ND?)
East: FSU, Clemson, VT, GT, Miami, Louisville, WV (Pitt?)

Q: why include Iowa State? Why 2 schools from Kansas? Try filling out the West first.

West: Texas, 1 of Baylor/TCU/Houston, OU, K-State, Notre Dame, Louisville, WVU
East: FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, NC State, VT, Pitt
14 teams focused on football. BOOM!

That would leave behind a pretty good tweener conference:
UNC, Duke, Wake, UVa, Syracuse, BC, Kansas, Iowa State, Okie St, Baylor, TTU

Of course, in this scenario UNC and UVa would immediately join either the SEC or B1G; Kansas might do the same.

Why Iowa St? So that Louisville wouldn't have to go into the west division.

(04-27-2016 11:35 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Honestly I don't see Louisville walking away from ND, UNC, Duke, UVa or Syracuse. Louisville understands how important football is, and our soon to be three expansions of PJCS, are testament to it, however, the main ball in Louisville, as much as I hate to admit it, still bounces. I cant imagine the school walking away from these programs unless something else happened first.
CJ

Jurich would follow the money. He wouldn't instigate the move but he would follow. Basketball thrived in the Metro & CUSA, it would do fine in a football first conference. Especially if Kansas was there. Conference affiliation doesn't nearly mean as much in basketball recruiting as it does in football.

(04-27-2016 02:48 PM)HRFlossY Wrote:  

(04-27-2016 12:54 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(04-27-2016 11:43 AM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  If UNC and Virginia come into play watch the SEC throw everything at those two schools to get them in the fold. These are the two schools they have wanted for years, and it would surprise me to see them garner signing bonuses and other money enticed incentives much like professional athletes when signing contracts etc. This would complete the SEC as the first Super Regional Conference standing at 16 teams. Most likely NOT the final number conferences will stop at, but one that can be worked with.

You could not be more wrong.

I completely agree with lumberpack, UNC and UVA are who both the $ec and b1g want extremely bad, but that will never happen because both schools LOVE the ACC and would rather be the "Big Fish" in their own neighborhood than just another guppy in the other ones. And unlike maryland, they both have a TON of money.
FLossY Out...

Just stating that if the ACC now would split with like minded schools listed in a post on the next page would come to fruition then I could see the SEC throwing anything and everything to try and scoop up the last 2 true southern states to complete their conference. I agree with you as well I don't see the back bone of the ACC leaving, but that still not going to stop the BIG and SEC from wooing them. May have not posted it correctly the first time around, but think I have my i's dotted and t's crossed this time.

(04-27-2016 09:33 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(04-27-2016 08:36 AM)ren.hoek Wrote:  Ok, so I assume OU and T. Boone Pickens are in the equation and Texas is out since they are the primary reason everyone wants out of the Big12. I also assume that OU would never agree to the annual beatings associated with sharing a division with Clemson

Kansas is a basketball school, but I'll include them just for laughs and giggles. Houston is a large enrollment public school in a huge metro area - much better option than Texas Tech. Baylor is a small, private school in a small town, so they're out. TCU and SMU are in DFW, so they're in.

West Division - Iowa State, Kansas, KState, OU, T. Boone Pickens, Houston, SMU, TCU
East Division - Pitt, WVU, Louisville, VT, NCSU, Clemson, GT, FSU

Am I close? I think GT and VT are must-haves to make this work.

(04-27-2016 08:19 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-27-2016 08:16 AM)ren.hoek Wrote:  sounds intriguing, but let's flesh it out...I'm guessing that schools of like mind in the ACC would be Clemson, FSU, Miami, GT (maybe - I have the impression that they like hanging with UNC, UVa, and Duke), Louisville, VT, and possibly Pitt. NCSU is joined at the hip with UNC via the board of governors, but let's assume they work it out to join the new conference. And let's throw WF in there just for fun. WVU would be frothing at the mouth to join this conference and the Big12 would probably be willing to release them from the GOR. That's still only 10. I assume we'd want 12, have divisions, etc. so we're not the new Big12. That would mean we'd have to add 2 more. BC is a non-starter and getting away from UNC, Duke, and UVa is the primary objective of this exercise. I'll pick Syracuse and Cincinnati to round it out.

North Division - Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, Louisville, Cincinnati, VT
South Division - NCSU, WF, Clemson, GT, FSU, Miami

Not too bad, but would the conference payout be more than the current ACC? Not sure about the answer to that.

(04-27-2016 07:52 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  Yes. You are missing a lot. First off....who says it's got to be the SEC, Big 10, or Big XII? Why can't it be in a conference with schools of a like mind with similar priorities and goals.


You know.....the same reason that Clemson didn't re-join the SoCon after our banishment in 1952 and went instead with Maryland and the five schools that left to form the ACC. While it might have been comfortable with all the familiar faces the leadership and direction no longer suited our needs. Sounds really familiar.

Too many ACC schools, not enough Big XII schools, and probably not enough and the wrong G5 schools. Think East and West rather than North and South.

In my opinion it would have to include Texas & Oklahoma to make it viable but why would they choose a new conference over an established SEC or B1G?

West: Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, TT, Baylor, Iowa St, Kansas (ND?)

East: FSU, Clemson, VT, GT, Miami, Louisville, WV (Pitt?)

I think the main problem with all these scenarios is that both Oklahoma and Florida State would bail on all their new friends as soon as the SEC came calling. They are the only reason ESPN or Fox would come close to matching what either the ACC or Big 12 are currently getting for their TV rights for such a conference.

And I think schools like Pitt, GT et al are smart enough to see that coming, and wouldn't join in the first place. Clemson and FSU would be smarter to just beg to join the Big 12 now and forget about starting a new conference.

(04-28-2016 07:28 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-27-2016 09:33 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(04-27-2016 08:36 AM)ren.hoek Wrote:  Ok, so I assume OU and T. Boone Pickens are in the equation and Texas is out since they are the primary reason everyone wants out of the Big12. I also assume that OU would never agree to the annual beatings associated with sharing a division with Clemson

Kansas is a basketball school, but I'll include them just for laughs and giggles. Houston is a large enrollment public school in a huge metro area - much better option than Texas Tech. Baylor is a small, private school in a small town, so they're out. TCU and SMU are in DFW, so they're in.

West Division - Iowa State, Kansas, KState, OU, T. Boone Pickens, Houston, SMU, TCU
East Division - Pitt, WVU, Louisville, VT, NCSU, Clemson, GT, FSU

Am I close? I think GT and VT are must-haves to make this work.

(04-27-2016 08:19 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-27-2016 08:16 AM)ren.hoek Wrote:  sounds intriguing, but let's flesh it out...I'm guessing that schools of like mind in the ACC would be Clemson, FSU, Miami, GT (maybe - I have the impression that they like hanging with UNC, UVa, and Duke), Louisville, VT, and possibly Pitt. NCSU is joined at the hip with UNC via the board of governors, but let's assume they work it out to join the new conference. And let's throw WF in there just for fun. WVU would be frothing at the mouth to join this conference and the Big12 would probably be willing to release them from the GOR. That's still only 10. I assume we'd want 12, have divisions, etc. so we're not the new Big12. That would mean we'd have to add 2 more. BC is a non-starter and getting away from UNC, Duke, and UVa is the primary objective of this exercise. I'll pick Syracuse and Cincinnati to round it out.

North Division - Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, Louisville, Cincinnati, VT
South Division - NCSU, WF, Clemson, GT, FSU, Miami

Not too bad, but would the conference payout be more than the current ACC? Not sure about the answer to that.

Too many ACC schools, not enough Big XII schools, and probably not enough and the wrong G5 schools. Think East and West rather than North and South.

In my opinion it would have to include Texas & Oklahoma to make it viable but why would they choose a new conference over an established SEC or B1G?

West: Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, TT, Baylor, Iowa St, Kansas (ND?)

East: FSU, Clemson, VT, GT, Miami, Louisville, WV (Pitt?)

I think the main problem with all these scenarios is that both Oklahoma and Florida State would bail on all their new friends as soon as the SEC came calling. They are the only reason ESPN or Fox would come close to matching what either the ACC or Big 12 are currently getting for their TV rights for such a conference.

And I think schools like Pitt, GT et al are smart enough to see that coming, and wouldn't join in the first place. Clemson and FSU would be smarter to just beg to join the Big 12 now and forget about starting a new conference.

The SEC wouldn't take them if ESPN didn't pay them to. I'm not saying this will likely happen but there is a remote chance & if it does then it would have ESPN/Fox blessing. Joining the B12 is less likely because there would be to much dead weight remaining. You could stop at 12 even. If it happened though I would expect ESPN to go after ND hard as well. IMO, there is enough brand power there that it would compete with the SEC & B1G.

(04-28-2016 09:53 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(04-28-2016 07:28 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-27-2016 09:33 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(04-27-2016 08:36 AM)ren.hoek Wrote:  Ok, so I assume OU and T. Boone Pickens are in the equation and Texas is out since they are the primary reason everyone wants out of the Big12. I also assume that OU would never agree to the annual beatings associated with sharing a division with Clemson

Kansas is a basketball school, but I'll include them just for laughs and giggles. Houston is a large enrollment public school in a huge metro area - much better option than Texas Tech. Baylor is a small, private school in a small town, so they're out. TCU and SMU are in DFW, so they're in.

West Division - Iowa State, Kansas, KState, OU, T. Boone Pickens, Houston, SMU, TCU
East Division - Pitt, WVU, Louisville, VT, NCSU, Clemson, GT, FSU

Am I close? I think GT and VT are must-haves to make this work.

(04-27-2016 08:19 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  Too many ACC schools, not enough Big XII schools, and probably not enough and the wrong G5 schools. Think East and West rather than North and South.

In my opinion it would have to include Texas & Oklahoma to make it viable but why would they choose a new conference over an established SEC or B1G?

West: Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, TT, Baylor, Iowa St, Kansas (ND?)

East: FSU, Clemson, VT, GT, Miami, Louisville, WV (Pitt?)

I think the main problem with all these scenarios is that both Oklahoma and Florida State would bail on all their new friends as soon as the SEC came calling. They are the only reason ESPN or Fox would come close to matching what either the ACC or Big 12 are currently getting for their TV rights for such a conference.

And I think schools like Pitt, GT et al are smart enough to see that coming, and wouldn't join in the first place. Clemson and FSU would be smarter to just beg to join the Big 12 now and forget about starting a new conference.

The SEC wouldn't take them if ESPN didn't pay them to. I'm not saying this will likely happen but there is a remote chance & if it does then it would have ESPN/Fox blessing. Joining the B12 is less likely because there would be to much dead weight remaining. You could stop at 12 even. If it happened though I would expect ESPN to go after ND hard as well. IMO, there is enough brand power there that it would compete with the SEC & B1G.

There is that ten year NBC contract in effect between ND and NBC until 2025.....

Why doesn't ESPN or should I say Disney just go after NBC and all their affiliates??? This would give them Notre Dame, as well as a network to place the ACC with. I know it's a lot of money etc, but really isn't that the bottom line for ESPN I mean Disney to try and buy all the competition and make it their own??? I personally would love to see that happen one way or the other.

(04-28-2016 11:17 AM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  Why doesn't ESPN or should I say Disney just go after NBC and all their affiliates??? This would give them Notre Dame, as well as a network to place the ACC with. I know it's a lot of money etc, but really isn't that the bottom line for ESPN I mean Disney to try and buy all the competition and make it their own??? I personally would love to see that happen one way or the other.

Pretty sure Comcast (NBC) is a much larger company then Disney.

(04-28-2016 11:22 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(04-28-2016 11:17 AM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  Why doesn't ESPN or should I say Disney just go after NBC and all their affiliates??? This would give them Notre Dame, as well as a network to place the ACC with. I know it's a lot of money etc, but really isn't that the bottom line for ESPN I mean Disney to try and buy all the competition and make it their own??? I personally would love to see that happen one way or the other.

Pretty sure Comcast (NBC) is a much larger company then Disney.

After a few more Star Wars movies they maybe take it out of petty cash.

(04-28-2016 11:22 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(04-28-2016 11:17 AM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  Why doesn't ESPN or should I say Disney just go after NBC and all their affiliates??? This would give them Notre Dame, as well as a network to place the ACC with. I know it's a lot of money etc, but really isn't that the bottom line for ESPN I mean Disney to try and buy all the competition and make it their own??? I personally would love to see that happen one way or the other.

Pretty sure Comcast (NBC) is a much larger company then Disney.

It's not. Disney is worth more than Comcast right now.

Disney market cap: $166.14B
Comcast market cap: $146.55B

(04-29-2016 12:07 PM)Insane_Baboon Wrote:  

(04-28-2016 11:22 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(04-28-2016 11:17 AM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  Why doesn't ESPN or should I say Disney just go after NBC and all their affiliates??? This would give them Notre Dame, as well as a network to place the ACC with. I know it's a lot of money etc, but really isn't that the bottom line for ESPN I mean Disney to try and buy all the competition and make it their own??? I personally would love to see that happen one way or the other.

Pretty sure Comcast (NBC) is a much larger company then Disney.

It's not. Disney is worth more than Comcast right now.

Disney market cap: $166.14B
Comcast market cap: $146.55B

If you want to get technical, market cap is the value of the equity, not the value of the firm. You need enterprise value. And, without looking, I'd bet that Disney is much smaller.

Enterprise value is debt + equity - excess cash

(04-29-2016 12:58 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(04-29-2016 12:07 PM)Insane_Baboon Wrote:  

(04-28-2016 11:22 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(04-28-2016 11:17 AM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  Why doesn't ESPN or should I say Disney just go after NBC and all their affiliates??? This would give them Notre Dame, as well as a network to place the ACC with. I know it's a lot of money etc, but really isn't that the bottom line for ESPN I mean Disney to try and buy all the competition and make it their own??? I personally would love to see that happen one way or the other.

Pretty sure Comcast (NBC) is a much larger company then Disney.

It's not. Disney is worth more than Comcast right now.

Disney market cap: $166.14B
Comcast market cap: $146.55B

If you want to get technical, market cap is the value of the equity, not the value of the firm. You need enterprise value. And, without looking, I'd bet that Disney is much smaller.

Well if you want to compare enterprise value, Disney is about 5% smaller.

So Comcast is larger than Disney which is ESPN which is also ABC if i am not mistake as well. I have a hard time believing that one, but iam not here to debate that is wrong or right just saying that sounds odd and still hard to believe. Oh well like it was mention by another poster let's see how this looks after another two or three star wars movies we will see a different picture.

(04-29-2016 03:11 PM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  So Comcast is larger than Disney which is ESPN which is also ABC if i am not mistake as well. I have a hard time believing that one, but iam not here to debate that is wrong or right just saying that sounds odd and still hard to believe. Oh well like it was mention by another poster let's see how this looks after another two or three star wars movies we will see a different picture.

Yeah, Comcast is a lot bigger than most people think. But if you look at the 10k's, their value is 6.8% higher than Disney, their revenue is 38.9% higher, and their EBITDA (a proxy for cashflow) is 53.82% higher. Admittedly, their net income is actually 9.27% lower. That might be the Starwars effect.

But to put everything in perspective, that 6.8% EV difference is worth $12.8 billion. Disney bought the rights to the entire Starwars franchise for $4 billion in late 2012 (I think).