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The mighty WAC finally done?
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billybobby777 Offline
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The mighty WAC finally done?
If you are a fan of a college athletic program, there's a good chance that your team was once either a full or partial member of the WAC. TCU, Arizona, Arizona St, Utah, BYU and probably 60 others have played in the WAC. Today it's made up of schools from Chicago to the Grand Canyon (U that is, a for profit in Phoenix) NM St may be dropping football, Chicago St may be dropping their entire school, North Dakota just dropped baseball. Will the WAC finally die as an athletic conference? I give it 3 more years max. What do you guys think?
Cheers!
04-24-2016 10:46 AM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #2
RE: The mighty WAC finally done?
The difference I see between the Great West and the WAC is the WAC still holds the auto bid. It'll still survive on even without a few members. I still see the WAC pulling up a couple D2 schools or some Big Sky and Southland schools joining in...if the WAC would become a FCS conference.
04-24-2016 11:08 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: The mighty WAC finally done?
The WAC could land Cal-San Diego for a short time which would give them a lifeline to call up some more D2 schools.

There seems to be talk that Alaska-Fairbanks, Western Washington, Colorado Mesa, Colorado Mines, Colorado State-Pueblo and some others could move up to D1. If the WAC could get some football schools to move up? You could get a WAC FCS. UTRGV, Grand Canyon and Utah Valley expressed that they are thinking about adding football. You could see this in the future.

Grand Canyon
Utah Valley
UTRGV

Plus you could add these 7 from D2.
Cal-San Diego also mentioned in adding football.
West Texas A&M
Colorado Mesa
Colorado State-Pueblo
Western Washington could restart their program.
Alaska-Fairbanks
Azusa Pacific

And a little bit down the road, add Humboldt State.
04-24-2016 11:16 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #4
RE: The mighty WAC finally done?
You can't kill it...it lives!
04-24-2016 11:20 AM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #5
RE: The mighty WAC finally done?
If the Big Sky were smart, they'd quit banging their head against the wall for one bid to the big dance, and make the WAC into a FCS conference. Losing Chicago State would actually then help, as the 19 remaining schools could then divide up in a way that makes sense.

Big Sky - Seattle*, Portland State, Eastern Washington, Idaho, Idaho State, Montana, Montana State, North Dakota, UMKC*
WAC - Sacramento State, Bakersfield*, Weber State, Utah Valley*, Southern Utah, Northern Colorado, Northern Arizona, Grand Canyon*, New Mexico State, UTRGV

The two Big West FCS schools could affiliate with either side.

Of if you want to go with a Pacific/Mountain alignment:

WAC - Seattle*, Portland State, Eastern Washington, Bakersfield*, Sacramento State, Idaho, Idaho State, Northern Arizona, Grand Canyon*
Big Sky - North Dakota, UMKC*, UTRGV, Northern Colorado, New Mexico State, Montana, Montana State, Utah Valley*, Southern Utah, Weber State
04-24-2016 11:55 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #6
RE: The mighty WAC finally done?
(04-24-2016 10:46 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  If you are a fan of a college athletic program, there's a good chance that your team was once either a full or partial member of the WAC. TCU, Arizona, Arizona St, Utah, BYU and probably 60 others have played in the WAC. Today it's made up of schools from Chicago to the Grand Canyon (U that is, a for profit in Phoenix) NM St may be dropping football, Chicago St may be dropping their entire school, North Dakota just dropped baseball. Will the WAC finally die as an athletic conference? I give it 3 more years max. What do you guys think?
Cheers!

Ehhh....its just a name. Its basically been renamed the Mountain West. If the WAC had just done traditional 8 team divisions after going to 16, the conference would probably look very similar to todays MW.
04-24-2016 12:04 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: The mighty WAC finally done?
WAC was basically renamed from RMAC as well.
04-24-2016 12:17 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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RE: The mighty WAC finally done?
(04-24-2016 12:04 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-24-2016 10:46 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  If you are a fan of a college athletic program, there's a good chance that your team was once either a full or partial member of the WAC. TCU, Arizona, Arizona St, Utah, BYU and probably 60 others have played in the WAC. Today it's made up of schools from Chicago to the Grand Canyon (U that is, a for profit in Phoenix) NM St may be dropping football, Chicago St may be dropping their entire school, North Dakota just dropped baseball. Will the WAC finally die as an athletic conference? I give it 3 more years max. What do you guys think?
Cheers!

Ehhh....its just a name. Its basically been renamed the Mountain West. If the WAC had just done traditional 8 team divisions after going to 16, the conference would probably look very similar to todays MW.

Oh I agree the WAC 16 COULD have have been successful if they did exactly what you said: 2 permanent divisions of 8. The "Mountain 5" split taking the ones they wanted with them. And I agree that the MWC is the WAC 2.0. But this isn't the point of this thread. Will the Western Athletic Conference finally cease to exist? Will it join the SWC in the conference graveyard? Or will this conference continue on in some form?
Cheers!
04-24-2016 01:03 PM
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HawaiiMongoose Online
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Post: #9
RE: The mighty WAC finally done?
The WAC has been declared dead many times and has always found a way to continue on. I don't think that will change. The conference currently has eight members, one more than it needs to keep its basketball auto bid. The main threats facing it are:

- Chicago State terminating D-I athletics for financial reasons. This looks very likely.

- NMSU leaving for the Big Sky or another FCS conference. This looks about 50/50 since the Aggies also have the option of playing football as an FBS independent and if they go that route they won't have a better option for non-football sports than the WAC (if they did they would have moved already).

- UMKC leaving for the Summit. This looks unlikely since the Kangaroos just left the Summit for the WAC a couple of years ago. Plus the Summit has its own stability issues.

- UTRGV leaving for the Southland. This looks unlikely since UTRGV in its earlier incarnation as UT Pan American was kicked out of the Southland. The Vaqueros are now talking about adding football which could help get them back in, however the Southland is already oversized and has better options to choose from if it wants to expand (there are several Division II schools in Texas that want to join and already have strong football programs).

None of the remaining WAC schools are attractive to other conferences. They're basically stuck in the WAC whether they like it or not. Grand Canyon might have had a shot at joining the WCC or Big West but that vanished when its effort to convert from profit to non-profit status failed. Seattle would love to be in the WCC but Gonzaga has and will continue to block its membership. Cal State Bakersfield would love to be in the Big West but isn't considered an academic peer by the current members. Utah Valley's public status takes it out of contention for the WCC and its location takes it out of contention for the Big West or Summit.

The other consideration in gauging the WAC's future is that Cal Baptist has a very strong D-II athletic program, doesn't play football, and just announced plans to build a new 5,200-seat arena. I don't think a school makes that investment unless it plans to move up to D-I, and the WAC would be Cal Baptist's only realistic option for D-I conference membership.

So the bottom line is that the WAC will likely lose one or two current members, gain a new one, and end up with seven or eight which will allow it to survive with its auto bid intact.
04-24-2016 01:57 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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RE: The mighty WAC finally done?
(04-24-2016 01:57 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  The WAC has been declared dead many times and has always found a way to continue on. I don't think that will change. The conference currently has eight members, one more than it needs to keep its basketball auto bid. The main threats facing it are:

- Chicago State terminating D-I athletics for financial reasons. This looks very likely.

- NMSU leaving for the Big Sky or another FCS conference. This looks about 50/50 since the Aggies also have the option of playing football as an FBS independent and if they go that route they won't have a better option for non-football sports than the WAC (if they did they would have moved already).

- UMKC leaving for the Summit. This looks unlikely since the Kangaroos just left the Summit for the WAC a couple of years ago. Plus the Summit has its own stability issues.

- UTRGV leaving for the Southland. This looks unlikely since UTRGV in its earlier incarnation as UT Pan American was kicked out of the Southland. The Vaqueros are now talking about adding football which could help get them back in, however the Southland is already oversized and has better options to choose from if it wants to expand (there are several Division II schools in Texas that want to join and already have strong football programs).

None of the remaining WAC schools are attractive to other conferences. They're basically stuck in the WAC whether they like it or not. Grand Canyon might have had a shot at joining the WCC or Big West but that vanished when its effort to convert from profit to non-profit status failed. Seattle would love to be in the WCC but Gonzaga has and will continue to block its membership. Cal State Bakersfield would love to be in the Big West but isn't considered an academic peer by the current members. Utah Valley's public status takes it out of contention for the WCC and its location takes it out of contention for the Big West or Summit.

The other consideration in gauging the WAC's future is that Cal Baptist has a very strong D-II athletic program, doesn't play football, and just announced plans to build a new 5,200-seat arena. I don't think a school makes that investment unless it plans to move up to D-I, and the WAC would be Cal Baptist's only realistic option for D-I conference membership.

So the bottom line is that the WAC will likely lose one or two current members, gain a new one, and end up with seven or eight which will allow it to survive with its auto bid intact.
I think Chicago St (school has sent lay off notices to all of its employees) is gone. I think New Mexico St is gone to the big sky and I think UMKC is going back to the summit. Since Grand Canyon is in a transitional period and not eligible for NCAA tourney for a few years then the WAC wouldn't be eligible for the NCAA auto bid. That would destroy the conference. That's why I'm predicting the demise of the WAC.
Cheers!
04-24-2016 03:58 PM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #11
RE: The mighty WAC finally done?
GCU is fully postseason eligible in 2017-18, so as long as any moves that cripple the WAC aren't effective July 1 of this year, the Lopes are on track to be full members of Division I. Even then the WAC would have a grace period by NCAA rule, so in theory, Grand Canyon is safe regardless if there are no institutional or compliance issues that interfere with the transition.

If the only loss is Chicago State, it's time to invite Cal Baptist or Metro State (Denver, CO). The other possibility may be Omaha, who reportedly had some discussions with the WAC in the past.

Also, UT Pan American was kicked out of the Sun Belt, not the Southland.
04-24-2016 04:48 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #12
RE: The mighty WAC finally done?
Have said this will be the coming alignment several times. The WAC will have a much smaller footprint

WAC
Grand Canyon
N Arizona
Dixie St from DII
S Utah
Utah Valley with fb
Weber St
Idaho St
N Colo
Colo Mesa or CSU-Pueblo or Metro St
Azusa Pacific from DII
Cal Baptist from DII
UTRGV with fb until it's gets a Southland off
Seattle until it gets another offer

Big Sky
Cal Poly
UC DAVIS
Sac St
Portland St
E Washington
Idaho
Montana
Montana St
UND
NDSU
SDSU
USD
NMSU if it doesn't have better offers
04-24-2016 04:54 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: The mighty WAC finally done?
The WAC is on very thin ice.

Chicago State is likely gone from the WAC. I'm not sure they'll even field a team next year.
NM State looks likely to leave as well

That leaves 6. Lose any more teams and the autobid is gone IIRC. Sure the NCAA could grant a waiver, but its possible they say...not this time.
04-24-2016 05:05 PM
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HawaiiMongoose Online
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RE: The mighty WAC finally done?
(04-24-2016 03:58 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(04-24-2016 01:57 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  The WAC has been declared dead many times and has always found a way to continue on. I don't think that will change. The conference currently has eight members, one more than it needs to keep its basketball auto bid. The main threats facing it are:

- Chicago State terminating D-I athletics for financial reasons. This looks very likely.

- NMSU leaving for the Big Sky or another FCS conference. This looks about 50/50 since the Aggies also have the option of playing football as an FBS independent and if they go that route they won't have a better option for non-football sports than the WAC (if they did they would have moved already).

- UMKC leaving for the Summit. This looks unlikely since the Kangaroos just left the Summit for the WAC a couple of years ago. Plus the Summit has its own stability issues.

- UTRGV leaving for the Southland. This looks unlikely since UTRGV in its earlier incarnation as UT Pan American was kicked out of the Southland. The Vaqueros are now talking about adding football which could help get them back in, however the Southland is already oversized and has better options to choose from if it wants to expand (there are several Division II schools in Texas that want to join and already have strong football programs).

None of the remaining WAC schools are attractive to other conferences. They're basically stuck in the WAC whether they like it or not. Grand Canyon might have had a shot at joining the WCC or Big West but that vanished when its effort to convert from profit to non-profit status failed. Seattle would love to be in the WCC but Gonzaga has and will continue to block its membership. Cal State Bakersfield would love to be in the Big West but isn't considered an academic peer by the current members. Utah Valley's public status takes it out of contention for the WCC and its location takes it out of contention for the Big West or Summit.

The other consideration in gauging the WAC's future is that Cal Baptist has a very strong D-II athletic program, doesn't play football, and just announced plans to build a new 5,200-seat arena. I don't think a school makes that investment unless it plans to move up to D-I, and the WAC would be Cal Baptist's only realistic option for D-I conference membership.

So the bottom line is that the WAC will likely lose one or two current members, gain a new one, and end up with seven or eight which will allow it to survive with its auto bid intact.
I think Chicago St (school has sent lay off notices to all of its employees) is gone. I think New Mexico St is gone to the big sky and I think UMKC is going back to the summit. Since Grand Canyon is in a transitional period and not eligible for NCAA tourney for a few years then the WAC wouldn't be eligible for the NCAA auto bid. That would destroy the conference. That's why I'm predicting the demise of the WAC.
Cheers!

You may be right about NMSU but their athletic director and a lot of their fans appear to favor the FBS independence route, at least for a couple of years. Here's a link to a relevant thread on the NMSU message board:

http://www.scout.com/college/new-mexico-...-athletics

As for UMKC, it's a bit of a mystery why the Kangaroos left the Summit for the WAC in the first place, but ironically it may be due in part to travel in the WAC being a bit easier. Most WAC members are in or near big cities with major airports. Most Summit members are in small towns that require multiple fights or a flight plus a bus ride to reach. Also the WAC brand is better known. So I'm not convinced UMKC will reverse course as long as the WAC remains viable.

Finally, Grand Canyon has completed three years of its four-year D-I transition and will be fully eligible for postseason competition in 2017-18, which is the earliest any current WAC member could realistically exit the conference. So that isn't a factor.
04-24-2016 05:05 PM
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HawaiiMongoose Online
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Post: #15
RE: The mighty WAC finally done?
(04-24-2016 04:48 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  GCU is fully postseason eligible in 2017-18, so as long as any moves that cripple the WAC aren't effective July 1 of this year, the Lopes are on track to be full members of Division I. Even then the WAC would have a grace period by NCAA rule, so in theory, Grand Canyon is safe regardless if there are no institutional or compliance issues that interfere with the transition.

If the only loss is Chicago State, it's time to invite Cal Baptist or Metro State (Denver, CO). The other possibility may be Omaha, who reportedly had some discussions with the WAC in the past.

Also, UT Pan American was kicked out of the Sun Belt, not the Southland.

Thanks for the correction on UTPA. And yes, Metro State (which recently built a new baseball, softball and soccer complex) would be another good candidate for WAC membership if it desired to move up to D-I. In the long run a trade of Chicago State for Cal Baptist or Metro State would benefit the conference.
04-24-2016 05:16 PM
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RE: The mighty WAC finally done?
Money overcomes lots of problems and Grand Canyon has lots of it. If they show up at the WCC or Big West office with cash one of those conferences will take them.

Cal Baptist has their eyes on the WCC, not the WAC. They would balance out the NorCal/SoCal balance as the eighth in-state member. They just need someone else to join with them (Denver)?

I think the Big West will bring back New Mexico State with a travel subsidy. The reason why it hasn't added them yet Mongoose, is because the conference is waiting on UC San Diego's D1 vote first. Regardless of how they vote, after it happens the conference is free to look for expansion candidates again. Decent basketball is a priority and NMSU is traditionally strong there. If UCSD says no the conference could go to 12 with NMSU, Bakersfield and GCU/Seattle.

Hawaii has not indicated their preference regarding Big West expansion. That's a reason why the WAC hasn't been finished off.
04-24-2016 05:22 PM
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RE: The mighty WAC finally done?
Hopefully not, but if the WAC does go under I hope the MWC buys the name and other relevant assets. Then rename themselves the WAC.
04-24-2016 06:05 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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RE: The mighty WAC finally done?
(04-24-2016 06:05 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  Hopefully not, but if the WAC does go under I hope the MWC buys the name and other relevant assets. Then rename themselves the WAC.

Hahaha!!
Cheers!
04-24-2016 07:09 PM
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HawaiiMongoose Online
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RE: The mighty WAC finally done?
(04-24-2016 05:22 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Money overcomes lots of problems and Grand Canyon has lots of it. If they show up at the WCC or Big West office with cash one of those conferences will take them.

Cal Baptist has their eyes on the WCC, not the WAC. They would balance out the NorCal/SoCal balance as the eighth in-state member. They just need someone else to join with them (Denver)?

I think the Big West will bring back New Mexico State with a travel subsidy. The reason why it hasn't added them yet Mongoose, is because the conference is waiting on UC San Diego's D1 vote first. Regardless of how they vote, after it happens the conference is free to look for expansion candidates again. Decent basketball is a priority and NMSU is traditionally strong there. If UCSD says no the conference could go to 12 with NMSU, Bakersfield and GCU/Seattle.

Hawaii has not indicated their preference regarding Big West expansion. That's a reason why the WAC hasn't been finished off.

Respectfully, I pretty much disagree with all of the above, but sharing different points of view is why we're here, right?

Money plays a big role in determining conference affiliation but it's a sword that cuts both ways. I don't see the WCC or Big West agreeing to add a for-profit Grand Canyon that has access to financial resources that current members don't. Moreover both conferences seem to place a high value on institutional compatibility and Grand Canyon doesn't fit the mold in either. Unlike Boise State which was able to buy its way into the Big West, I don't think Grand Canyon will convince the WCC or Big West presidents to issue an invitation by putting cash on the table.

As for Cal Baptist, the school may well aspire to WCC membership, but I see no reason for a strong basketball conference that has no interest in expanding with established D-I programs like Seattle and Denver to even consider adding a D-II move-up. If Cal Baptist decides to go D-I the WAC will probably be its only option.

Next, while it's technically true that the Big West will be "free to look for expansion candidates" after UCSD's vote, I think the reality is that the conference is only seeking one new member to balance out basketball scheduling. So if the vote is affirmative, UCSD will be added and NMSU and other potential invitees from the WAC will be shut out. On the other hand if the vote fails, I think the addition of NMSU with a travel subsidy becomes possible, but not necessarily likely. Travel to Las Cruces was never popular when NMSU was in the conference, and there's no assurance NMSU can muster the financial resources to afford to subsidize it, especially with the school struggling to keep football viable.

Finally, regarding Hawaii's view of Big West expansion, I have no inside knowledge but based on comments from coaches and administrators I think there would be support for adding a 10th conference member to balance schedules, provided it was in a city with direct flights from Honolulu. UCSD would be ideal from Hawaii's point of view.

Of course my opinions could all be wrong. It will be interesting to see how things play out.
(This post was last modified: 04-24-2016 07:48 PM by HawaiiMongoose.)
04-24-2016 07:38 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #20
RE: The mighty WAC finally done?
The WAC will continue to exist for awhile in its current zombie form, because it serves the purpose of providing a D-I conference for some schools that have no other conference options. IMO, even if Chicago State pulls the plug on D-I sports and even if NMSU finds another conference, the NCAA will find a way to allow the WAC to continue - because that purpose will remain.

The NCAA might even try to keep the WAC viable by quietly discouraging other conferences from inviting WAC members to join -- if that "discouraging" is even necessary, given that there is little or no genuine evidence that any conference is going to "raid" this version of the WAC.
04-24-2016 08:23 PM
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