(04-24-2016 05:29 AM)tigerpride96 Wrote:  NO ONE holds the program hostage for any reason, whatsoever. IF that means Dedric and future Lawsons go someplace else, then so be it.

Other than Chuck Lawson, what credible source says Saul is the one being hired as an AC? No one I've seen. Evidence seems to be Vince Taylor - not Saul. Chuck is using the media to push that rumor to get everyone stirred up. That's what's messed up.

And who is to say this wasn't decided ahead of time? Could have very easily gone like this...Bowen tells Keelon to hang in there while we hire a replacement and they will discuss with the new guy Keelon's important role. Bowen has discussion with Tubby. Tubby says thanks, I'd love to have him, but not as an AC. Keelon doesn't like this and has Chuck start crying.

No way Keelon thought 100% he was locked in. ONLY way it could be decided ahead, was if Bowen made it a condition for any coach coming in. So do you not hire Tubby if he doesn't agree to keep Keelon? Let's be real here.

(04-24-2016 12:12 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 11:29 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  Coaches hired to bring players get fired the minute the don't.

Happened at Baylor with John Wall's 'guy'.

Happened at Arizona State with Thon Maker's guy.

Keelon was hired as an assistant coach to bring players and he did. He left a meeting with Bowen and/or Rudd believing he would keep his job.

The issue is NOT Keelon.

Grow up. It is college athletics. Where sometimes you get a job just because you have tall, talented kids. And sometimes you lose that job because your HC got run off. We're always reminded that you gotta play the fringes and gray areas to win big in college sports. It's a big boy game and not always pretty. Gotta know that going in. So if you need to hire a coach for their sons, fine. Also fine if you need to clean house and bring your own guys.

100% fine as long as you aren't whining about being held hostage and the like.

You don't want to keep Keelon then the kids leave and go you take it like a man.

(04-24-2016 07:58 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 07:41 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 05:29 AM)tigerpride96 Wrote:  NO ONE holds the program hostage for any reason, whatsoever. IF that means Dedric and future Lawsons go someplace else, then so be it.

Would Tubby not be holding the program hostage if he hires his son Saul who brings much less to the table than Keelon.

Wouldn't it be Tubby putting his sons future ahead of Memphis' because he is under contract and we cant get rid of him...

Keelon's value is his sons, period. There seems to be some evidence he doesn't have the skills to coach at the D-1 level, lacks skills to run a practice, can't scout, can't otherwise recruit. And I'm not putting all this on Keelon. His previous head coach lacked those coaching skills so he had little exposure to learn & hone those skills. Keelon would do well to find a way to stay on Tubby's staff, learn some skills & become a better coach. And there's no comparison between the experience of Saul Smith & Keelon, Saul has been a college coach since 2007 & not the entire period under his dad. So if Keelon's current value are his talented sons, then he needs to either learn some D-1 skills under Tubby or understand as soon as one of his sons goes elsewhere, his college coaching career is over - or severely limit school choices & career choices for his sons.

Totally agree...

(04-24-2016 08:00 AM)CoachJammer Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 05:29 AM)tigerpride96 Wrote:  NO ONE holds the program hostage for any reason, whatsoever. IF that means Dedric and future Lawsons go someplace else, then so be it.

I'm leaning to this side of the argument. I just wish it wasn't playing out so publicly not only locally, but nationally.

I wish it wasn't playing out publicly at all. There is no reason the brother/uncle should be making comments in a public forum about it.

(04-24-2016 10:01 AM)MemTiger90 Wrote:  You scorn Keelon, then you don't get his current sons, but more importantly, you don't get his future 5 star top 10 younger sons. You also don't get any other future star player that Keelon is connected with. Same thing if you scorn Penny..

Doing these things would be huge mistakes. The only 5 stars you're going to get here are kids that are from here. (Unless you're calipari, of course)

So... who has Keelon brought in so far besides his sons?

(04-24-2016 11:21 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 10:31 AM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 10:08 AM)k2tigers Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 10:03 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  Keelon ain't to blame dumbazzes

I didn't say he is and don't care. My concern is letting a 3rd assistant coach position decision potentially set the program's current and potential talent level way way back.

Some idiots won't understand. You gotta keep ignoring that poster

Keelon isn't the issue.

Blame Bowen and/or Rudd for this.

Totally agree on the latter point.

Well I have a brother and from time to time we have to calm each other down. Keelon should have kept Chuck quiet. Keelon had "some" leverage until Chuck went public. At least one if the elder Larson brothers is an idiot. They have made it impossible for Tubby. No experienced manager is going to start off being steamrolled. And if Keelon thought this was a good move (having Chuck go public), then I cannot see him as a D1 assistant coach.

(04-24-2016 11:50 AM)wylioats Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 09:20 AM)papajohn Wrote:  I have lost all respect for the Lawson clan (adults, not kids) for handling this in such a classless, public manner and for putting Tubby in this no-win situation so early in his tenure. I don't know what Tubby should do, and I would hate to lose the Lawson boys, but I am upset at the way the Lawson adults have chosen to approach this.

^^^^

How do you know the lawsons are at fault? you want to give the benefit of the doubt to someone who is trying to hire Saul smith, who has no ins with a recruit and is flagrant nepotism?

(04-24-2016 12:53 PM)jgardne Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 11:50 AM)wylioats Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 09:20 AM)papajohn Wrote:  I have lost all respect for the Lawson clan (adults, not kids) for handling this in such a classless, public manner and for putting Tubby in this no-win situation so early in his tenure. I don't know what Tubby should do, and I would hate to lose the Lawson boys, but I am upset at the way the Lawson adults have chosen to approach this.

^^^^

How do you know the lawsons are at fault? you want to give the benefit of the doubt to someone who is trying to hire Saul smith, who has no ins with a recruit and is flagrant nepotism?

The tail don't wag the dog. It's Tubby's call.

While this is mnot an identical situation, many would argue that Finch should have taken Ted Andeson's deal to get Todd Day. Finch's decision not to allow a Memphis High School to dictate terms not only cost us a great player, but it gave Nolan Richardson a foothold in this market that may not have been as strong had the deal been made.
I know that this is like comparing apples to oranges, but Sometimes a deal may not be as costly as everyone thinks. Derrick probably leaves after next year anyway.

(04-24-2016 01:22 PM)CKMcDan Wrote:  While this is mnot an identical situation, many would argue that Finch should have taken Ted Andeson's deal to get Todd Day. Finch's decision not to allow a Memphis High School to dictate terms not only cost us a great player, but it gave Nolan Richardson a foothold in this market that may not have been as strong had the deal been made.
I know that this is like comparing apples to oranges, but Sometimes a deal may not be as costly as everyone thinks. Derrick probably leaves after next year anyway.

yeah, I kinda wonder what the Finch years would look like today had we gotten Day and Harris to stay in Memphis.

The counter-argument is for Tubby and the University to call Keelon Lawson's bluff. Don't retain him, or Offer him a non-coaching position and hope the waiver gets approved. If Keelon Lawson doesn't accept it, he will have....
1. Set KJ back a year. I assume, medical redshirt or not, KJ won't be able to play until the 2nd semester 2017 at the earliest if he transfers.
2. Put Detric in the draft a year or 2 before he is ready. That move probably puts Detric in the 2nd round, while another couple of years of college coaching may help him get to he first round. A low draft position will be worth a lot more than a couple of years of an assistant coach's salary.

Or...Keelon can walk away now, let KJ and Detric be, and play this game again in 2019 when Chandler is a senior and his 4th son is a rising underclassman. There may be a coach willing top take the deal forhis2 younger sons.

I'm just baffled that this is an issue. Isn't the point in basketball to win/get great recruits. Seems like Tubby just came here to secure his big final retirement check because he sure is not thinking like 99% of basketball coaches in this country. This is not an issue at other schools. It simply is not. You are happy to have top kids on your team. I just don't get it.

Rudd and Bowen are two idiots. I hope one day we can get local leadership here.

(04-24-2016 01:58 PM)FORealTigerFan Wrote:  I'm just baffled that this is an issue. Isn't the point in basketball to win/get great recruits. Seems like Tubby just came here to secure his big final retirement check because he sure is not thinking like 99% of basketball coaches in this country. This is not an issue at other schools. It simply is not. You are happy to have top kids on your team. I just don't get it.

Rudd and Bowen are two idiots. I hope one day we can get local leadership here.

If Tubby wanted to sit around and retire, he could have done it at Texas Tech.

(04-24-2016 02:03 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 01:58 PM)FORealTigerFan Wrote:  I'm just baffled that this is an issue. Isn't the point in basketball to win/get great recruits. Seems like Tubby just came here to secure his big final retirement check because he sure is not thinking like 99% of basketball coaches in this country. This is not an issue at other schools. It simply is not. You are happy to have top kids on your team. I just don't get it.

Rudd and Bowen are two idiots. I hope one day we can get local leadership here.

If Tubby wanted to sit around and retire, he could have done it at Texas Tech.

Yeah...some of the idiocy being posted about Tubby taking this job as a retirement check is mind boggling.

(04-24-2016 12:09 PM)blutgr39 Wrote:  I could not believe this was not worked out before Tubby was hired. Soap opera describes this perfectly as a previous poster said.

Rudd and Bowen need to sit down Tubby and tell him to how it needs to be.

this place sure is interesting

(04-24-2016 02:09 PM)hsvtiger Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 12:09 PM)blutgr39 Wrote:  I could not believe this was not worked out before Tubby was hired. Soap opera describes this perfectly as a previous poster said.

Rudd and Bowen need to sit down Keelon and tell him to how it needs to be.

FIFY.......

Tubby gets the blame if the program doesn't rebound in a reasonable period of time. Likewise gets the praise if the Tigers start winning and making the tournament. I think you have to let him pick and choose his assistants. As for his son, maybe he is a quality assistant. Coaches want and need assistants they trust. Who brings that to the table?