(04-25-2016 01:50 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  I have no inside knowledge, but I can read a table.

Syracuse and UMD have played each other in one (1) bowl (Cherry Bowl) and have met on the football field thirty six (36) times. Only one (1) of those games was in-conference. That means the school's played each other thirty four (34) times OOC in the regular season. Very clearly UMD has no trouble playing SU. They even played at SU the year after they left.

Furthermore, the Terps played the Orange 11x since the Carrier Dome opened, including almost every year of the 80's (i.e. when the field really did cause injuries). In fact, the two schools stopped playing extremely regularly in 1991, which is the year the SU joined the Big East in football. Either that's one heck of a coincidence, or SU pulled the plug, not UMD.

Given Syracuse is elite in both its other two big sports (basketball and lacrosse), I have a very hard time believing that anyone, UMD included, isn't itching to play SU in H&H series in those sports. Furthermore, given UMD's obvious commitment to winning on both the basketball court and the lax field, I find it hard to believe that they don't care more than most schools.

Finally, as per the DoE (FWIW), SU has one of the most profitable ADs in the ACC. In fact, it was brought into the conference to increase the media payout.

I guess that's the long way of saying "clearly SU's AD didn't drive UMD out of the conference. The Orange have a football team that UMD likes to play. The Orange have basketball and lacrosse teams that UMD wants to play. And finally, the Orange made the conference richer."

UMD might hate UNC. I don't know. UMD might miss Duke. I don't know. UMD may be run poorly enough to think that the CIC matters to an appreciable extent. I don't know. UMD may have left for other reasons. I don't know. However, I do know that blaming Syracuse is ludicrous.

http://www.mcubed.net/ncaaf/series/syr/md.shtml

(Excuse my typos. I'm using a phone.)

LP4 is right. This is really about the opinions of a group of Maryland fans who've felt ignored and slighted by Greensboro over the years. Don't take it so personally. Maryland didn't move to BIG to get away from Syracuse. As stated above, athletics is just a sideshow. The real money is in research and economic development.

(04-26-2016 02:32 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  

(04-25-2016 01:50 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  I have no inside knowledge, but I can read a table.

Syracuse and UMD have played each other in one (1) bowl (Cherry Bowl) and have met on the football field thirty six (36) times. Only one (1) of those games was in-conference. That means the school's played each other thirty four (34) times OOC in the regular season. Very clearly UMD has no trouble playing SU. They even played at SU the year after they left.

Furthermore, the Terps played the Orange 11x since the Carrier Dome opened, including almost every year of the 80's (i.e. when the field really did cause injuries). In fact, the two schools stopped playing extremely regularly in 1991, which is the year the SU joined the Big East in football. Either that's one heck of a coincidence, or SU pulled the plug, not UMD.

Given Syracuse is elite in both its other two big sports (basketball and lacrosse), I have a very hard time believing that anyone, UMD included, isn't itching to play SU in H&H series in those sports. Furthermore, given UMD's obvious commitment to winning on both the basketball court and the lax field, I find it hard to believe that they don't care more than most schools.

Finally, as per the DoE (FWIW), SU has one of the most profitable ADs in the ACC. In fact, it was brought into the conference to increase the media payout.

I guess that's the long way of saying "clearly SU's AD didn't drive UMD out of the conference. The Orange have a football team that UMD likes to play. The Orange have basketball and lacrosse teams that UMD wants to play. And finally, the Orange made the conference richer."

UMD might hate UNC. I don't know. UMD might miss Duke. I don't know. UMD may be run poorly enough to think that the CIC matters to an appreciable extent. I don't know. UMD may have left for other reasons. I don't know. However, I do know that blaming Syracuse is ludicrous.

http://www.mcubed.net/ncaaf/series/syr/md.shtml

(Excuse my typos. I'm using a phone.)

LP4 is right. This is really about the opinions of a group of Maryland fans who've felt ignored and slighted by Greensboro over the years. Don't take it so personally. Maryland didn't move to BIG to get away from Syracuse. As stated above, athletics is just a sideshow. The real money is in research and economic development.

Read post #36 and my last paragraph.

(04-25-2016 09:47 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(04-25-2016 09:42 PM)HtownOrange Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 11:56 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  Htown, there’s no need for me to respond as I would only be repeating LP4’s comments.

LP merely spilled nonsense and drivel about Maryland wanting to be elite but UMB tied its hands (apparently, I have to fill in that blank as LP forgot to add legislative references to support the claim, as was asked). This your answer is that drivel wins over proof. Glad you are not a judge.

My question still stands, what stopped Maryland from becoming elite prior to leaving the ACC?

Were there no alumni? Were there no donors? Were there no academics?

If you so wish to hold elite as "only those with med schools" that is your choice. However, that is not accurate. As for the AAU, so what? Syracuse sold their med school to the State of New York? Did Syracuse go from elite to loser school because they helped the State? That is the essence of your claim.

My point is that Maryland could have improved itself had it chosen to do so without the professional schools. At some point, they could have swayed the legislature from the nonsense of blocking Maryland from becoming elite and having its own professional schools.

Instead, it took the devious machinations of a super gambler who played everyone to think that Maryland sports were holding it back (his excuse to destroy the proud hoops and gridiron teams) from being elite. This action fooled everyone as Maryland went in deep debt to rebuild sports (Yow) to fool the legislature into allowing Maryland to usurp the professional schools in Baltimore.

This underpinning was used to fool everyone into thinking Maryland needed the B1G for money, when in fact it was a manipulation of the B1G, the CIC, the Baltimore professional schools, the Maryland State legislature (LP claimed Maryland was held back, the only entity that could possibly have held Maryland back was the State Legislature, of which LP conveniently failed to provide support to his claims.

You want us all to believe the above, without proof or support of the legislative actions, laws prohibiting Maryland from improving itself in place of the actual facts that Maryland's AD was broke and overextended. Assuming Kirwan is half as intelligent as you pretend he is (and I have no reason to doubt this assertion) it would have been far easier to simply lay out a strategy to move Maryland forward without the deception, conniving, chicanery, et al, listed in your own statements.

Add to that, with the known donors and the very benevolent Under Armour support, the fact that Maryland has no real history with the B1G (OK, you have played Rutger and PSU, but let's not pretend you were on any of the traditional B1G schools' annual opponents list) your argument is weakened.

I am still willing to look at the legislative actions prohibiting Maryland from improving. The Court orders. The big donors who wanted to ensure their Maryland was always 2nd class to the professional schools. Something tangible, please. Until then, Maryland made a play for cash. The assertion that the CIC will bring more research grants kinda proves my point and dispels your fantasy, at least LP's that Maryland is in the B1G for the money.

And once again, I reiterate, I hold no judgment over Maryland's head for seeking more money, just don't pawn off a kindergartner's drawing as a Rembrandt.

Does the water in the finger lakes region of NY poison brain cells?

Read a recent article for yourself and then grow enough sense to do some primary research before you ask such stupid questions.


I guess I need to annotate it for you as well.

From http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion...story.html

Carrie WellsCarrie WellsContact ReporterThe Baltimore Sun
Plan to combine two universities would lead to closer partnership and more innovation.

A renewed push by state lawmakers to combine the flagship University of Maryland, College Park with the health- and law-focused University of Maryland, Baltimore could give the state a dual-campus powerhouse that would leverage the strengths of both institutions to launch new programs, discoveries, and businesses, supporters say.

Legislation sponsored by Sen. Bill Ferguson and Del. Curt Anderson and backed by Senate President Thomas V. Mike Miller would move the 80-employee headquarters of the state university system from Adelphi to Baltimore and establish a ventures office to help faculty and students market their inventions commercially.

The measure is controversial. The presidents of the two institutions disagree on the plan — one supports it; the other doesn't — and the governing board of the University System of Maryland is also divided.

The Board of Regents, which oversees 12 of the state's public universities, met Wednesday to discuss the matter, but opinions were "all over the spectrum," spokesman Mike Lurie said, and no consensus was reached. Several regents plan to testify at a hearing on the bill on Tuesday, Lurie said.

A similar effort five years ago drew criticism from Baltimore leaders, who thought it would shift power away from the city. It was rejected by the regents. Instead of merging, the two universities agreed to work more closely in a partnership called "MPower," now widely viewed as a success, in which they share some faculty and programs.
UM regents approve alliance for College Park and Baltimore campuses
UM regents approve alliance for College Park and Baltimore campuses

As it did five years ago, the new proposal prompted concern in Baltimore. Jay Perman, president of the Baltimore university, was among those raising questions about the impact of combining the two universities.

Ferguson and Anderson are Baltimore Democrats. Ferguson said the bill contains many provisions to strengthen the city. It would allot $1 million annually to encourage businesses growing out of the ventures office to locate in Baltimore, and ensure that the Baltimore university's professional schools — the medical school, the law school and other graduate programs — remain in the city.

"The old-world way of thinking for Baltimore has really focused on circling the wagons and protecting what we have," said Ferguson, a graduate of the law school. "I think that we have to approach the next two decades with a very different mentality. Having a campus of the flagship in Baltimore can only help us move forward."

Supporters say the flagship universities in most states include medical and law schools. A combined university would rise up the national rankings in research spending.

Supporters also say it would be easier to attract top faculty and students to a combined institution, and bringing together separate fields of study, such as the engineering department in College Park and the medical school in Baltimore, could lead to new discoveries that could be commercialized.

The bill calls for keeping separate presidents for the campuses in College Park and Baltimore and would allow — but not require — the regents to appoint a single president if one of the presidents stepped down.

Perman said he favors the increased collaboration that came out of the MPower agreement, but a merger would cost his university its unique identity as an anchor institution. He also said it could jeopardize recent collaboration between his institution and the University of Maryland, Baltimore County.

"I strongly believe, whether it's me or anybody else, that you need to look out at West Baltimore every day, engage with the community every day, you need to live in Baltimore as I do, and feel Baltimore and be concerned about Baltimore," he said.

That can't happen, he said, if leadership is based in College Park.

A merger would be a reunification: The two institutions were a single university from 1920 until 1970.

Miller, a graduate of both College Park and the law school, was behind the previous merger proposal. He has co-sponsored Ferguson's legislation.

He said the 30 miles that separate the two campuses are less of a barrier in the Internet age.

"This is about the state of Maryland," he said. "It's not about promoting one campus over another. It's about moving our research forward, moving our startups forward, making Baltimore the place it once was and can be again."

House Speaker Michael E. Busch backs the concept but has some concerns about executing it, his chief of staff said.

"The speaker is certainly open to the idea," Chief of Staff Alexandra Hughes said. "He wants to ensure the universities maintain a strong Baltimore presence and continue to serve as being some of the best in the country."

Supporters steered clear of calling it a merger, preferring "strategic partnership." But the surviving institution would be known as The University of Maryland, and some overlapping administrative jobs at the two colleges would be combined.

University system officials said it was too early to say how many positions could be combined, or lost.

Anderson said the legislation would ensure that the structures of the two institutions remained intact. Some Baltimore leaders feared that the previous measure would have meant the medical and law schools would move out of the city.

Wallace Loh, president of the College Park institution, said the legislation could build on the successes of MPower.

Under that agreement, an engineering professor in College Park and a neurosurgeon in Baltimore collaborated to invent a tiny robot that can remove brain tumors. The invention has been patented and is on its way to commercialization, he said.

The universities have grown from one joint faculty appointment to 60, and those professors have generated $70 million in research funding.

Loh said he wasn't concerned about whether one or two presidents would lead the combined institution.

"We have lost as a state 40 years of research opportunities and advances because we were separated," he said. "Once we bring the two together, there's far more that we can do."

The president of the student body in College Park agreed.

"It's something that's really beneficial to students of College Park and UM Baltimore," Patrick Ronk said. "It can keep the highest-ranking Maryland high school students in the state, and we would attract more really qualified out-of-state students as well."

University system Chancellor Robert Caret said in a statement that he was still reviewing the legislation and would offer an opinion at a later date.

Regent James Brady said he feared the Baltimore institution would be "totally subsumed" by College Park, which he said would hurt Baltimore at a time when the city is in "crisis."

"It is a takeover by College Park of UMB," Brady said. "At the first opportunity there will be one president, and it will not be the Baltimore president, I assure you."

Regent Gary Attman called the bill "MPower on steroids."

"I think we all want to be protective to Baltimore City," he said. "But I don't see any downside."

Baltimore Sun reporter Erin Cox contributed to this article from Annapolis.

cwells@baltsun.com


Htown, you don't know how Universities operate in the southeast and the loudness of your mouth might win an argument in NYC but not in the southeast. Arrogance is also not a substitute for intelligence.

What you are doing is reinforcing a negative stereotype - that of the loud mouthed, opinionated Yankee, who is opining about something he knows nothing about. For the benefit of loud mouthed Yankees everywhere, just stop.

I'll help you get started on your research https://report.nih.gov/award/index.cfm

Check out the NIH and look at what UMB got just this year in NIH funding and you will understand why MDCP without a medical school and other key professional schools would do just about anything to take over UMB and would use any tool direct or indirect to further that agenda, an agenda that is decades old.

One last little bit for you regarding the university politics in MD: https://www.umaryland.edu/news/archived-...ership.php

You are amusing. You still have avoided my direct question, twice. Your first response is drivel. Your second response proves the point that I have made that the State didn't actually hold back Maryland.

This article proves Maryland was acting in its own interest and made moves to work with UMB PRIOR any interest in the B1G. MPower was in place before the B1G became an option for Maryland.

Regarding the UMB grants, you justify the action as if it was magical. In the business world, it is merely a merger/acquisition (or hostile take over, depending on if the view is for or against the merger). If it makes sense, do it. For the record, UMB received $140+MM in FY '14, $130+MM in FY '15 and $50+MM in FY '16. If I was being half as arrogant as you, I would make a harsh statement how Maryland has negatively impacted UMB's grants; the truth is that grants come and go in cycles and many factors go into what is researched and who gets the grants.

I haven't been arrogant, only trying to get you to stop preaching how saintly Maryland just had to make the move because they could not be elite in the ACC, how the State held them back from being elite. Duke, UNC, Virginia are generally considered elite and they do fine. They also happen to be southeastern schools.

Anyway, enjoy the B1G. As I have stated several times, I have no issue with a school making a decision in their best interest, I harbor no ill will against Maryland.

(04-26-2016 10:35 PM)HtownOrange Wrote:  

(04-25-2016 09:47 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(04-25-2016 09:42 PM)HtownOrange Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 11:56 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  Htown, there’s no need for me to respond as I would only be repeating LP4’s comments.

LP merely spilled nonsense and drivel about Maryland wanting to be elite but UMB tied its hands (apparently, I have to fill in that blank as LP forgot to add legislative references to support the claim, as was asked). This your answer is that drivel wins over proof. Glad you are not a judge.

My question still stands, what stopped Maryland from becoming elite prior to leaving the ACC?

Were there no alumni? Were there no donors? Were there no academics?

If you so wish to hold elite as "only those with med schools" that is your choice. However, that is not accurate. As for the AAU, so what? Syracuse sold their med school to the State of New York? Did Syracuse go from elite to loser school because they helped the State? That is the essence of your claim.

My point is that Maryland could have improved itself had it chosen to do so without the professional schools. At some point, they could have swayed the legislature from the nonsense of blocking Maryland from becoming elite and having its own professional schools.

Instead, it took the devious machinations of a super gambler who played everyone to think that Maryland sports were holding it back (his excuse to destroy the proud hoops and gridiron teams) from being elite. This action fooled everyone as Maryland went in deep debt to rebuild sports (Yow) to fool the legislature into allowing Maryland to usurp the professional schools in Baltimore.

This underpinning was used to fool everyone into thinking Maryland needed the B1G for money, when in fact it was a manipulation of the B1G, the CIC, the Baltimore professional schools, the Maryland State legislature (LP claimed Maryland was held back, the only entity that could possibly have held Maryland back was the State Legislature, of which LP conveniently failed to provide support to his claims.

You want us all to believe the above, without proof or support of the legislative actions, laws prohibiting Maryland from improving itself in place of the actual facts that Maryland's AD was broke and overextended. Assuming Kirwan is half as intelligent as you pretend he is (and I have no reason to doubt this assertion) it would have been far easier to simply lay out a strategy to move Maryland forward without the deception, conniving, chicanery, et al, listed in your own statements.

Add to that, with the known donors and the very benevolent Under Armour support, the fact that Maryland has no real history with the B1G (OK, you have played Rutger and PSU, but let's not pretend you were on any of the traditional B1G schools' annual opponents list) your argument is weakened.

I am still willing to look at the legislative actions prohibiting Maryland from improving. The Court orders. The big donors who wanted to ensure their Maryland was always 2nd class to the professional schools. Something tangible, please. Until then, Maryland made a play for cash. The assertion that the CIC will bring more research grants kinda proves my point and dispels your fantasy, at least LP's that Maryland is in the B1G for the money.

And once again, I reiterate, I hold no judgment over Maryland's head for seeking more money, just don't pawn off a kindergartner's drawing as a Rembrandt.

Does the water in the finger lakes region of NY poison brain cells?

Read a recent article for yourself and then grow enough sense to do some primary research before you ask such stupid questions.


I guess I need to annotate it for you as well.

From http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion...story.html

Carrie WellsCarrie WellsContact ReporterThe Baltimore Sun
Plan to combine two universities would lead to closer partnership and more innovation.

A renewed push by state lawmakers to combine the flagship University of Maryland, College Park with the health- and law-focused University of Maryland, Baltimore could give the state a dual-campus powerhouse that would leverage the strengths of both institutions to launch new programs, discoveries, and businesses, supporters say.

Legislation sponsored by Sen. Bill Ferguson and Del. Curt Anderson and backed by Senate President Thomas V. Mike Miller would move the 80-employee headquarters of the state university system from Adelphi to Baltimore and establish a ventures office to help faculty and students market their inventions commercially.

The measure is controversial. The presidents of the two institutions disagree on the plan — one supports it; the other doesn't — and the governing board of the University System of Maryland is also divided.

The Board of Regents, which oversees 12 of the state's public universities, met Wednesday to discuss the matter, but opinions were "all over the spectrum," spokesman Mike Lurie said, and no consensus was reached. Several regents plan to testify at a hearing on the bill on Tuesday, Lurie said.

A similar effort five years ago drew criticism from Baltimore leaders, who thought it would shift power away from the city. It was rejected by the regents. Instead of merging, the two universities agreed to work more closely in a partnership called "MPower," now widely viewed as a success, in which they share some faculty and programs.
UM regents approve alliance for College Park and Baltimore campuses
UM regents approve alliance for College Park and Baltimore campuses

As it did five years ago, the new proposal prompted concern in Baltimore. Jay Perman, president of the Baltimore university, was among those raising questions about the impact of combining the two universities.

Ferguson and Anderson are Baltimore Democrats. Ferguson said the bill contains many provisions to strengthen the city. It would allot $1 million annually to encourage businesses growing out of the ventures office to locate in Baltimore, and ensure that the Baltimore university's professional schools — the medical school, the law school and other graduate programs — remain in the city.

"The old-world way of thinking for Baltimore has really focused on circling the wagons and protecting what we have," said Ferguson, a graduate of the law school. "I think that we have to approach the next two decades with a very different mentality. Having a campus of the flagship in Baltimore can only help us move forward."

Supporters say the flagship universities in most states include medical and law schools. A combined university would rise up the national rankings in research spending.

Supporters also say it would be easier to attract top faculty and students to a combined institution, and bringing together separate fields of study, such as the engineering department in College Park and the medical school in Baltimore, could lead to new discoveries that could be commercialized.

The bill calls for keeping separate presidents for the campuses in College Park and Baltimore and would allow — but not require — the regents to appoint a single president if one of the presidents stepped down.

Perman said he favors the increased collaboration that came out of the MPower agreement, but a merger would cost his university its unique identity as an anchor institution. He also said it could jeopardize recent collaboration between his institution and the University of Maryland, Baltimore County.

"I strongly believe, whether it's me or anybody else, that you need to look out at West Baltimore every day, engage with the community every day, you need to live in Baltimore as I do, and feel Baltimore and be concerned about Baltimore," he said.

That can't happen, he said, if leadership is based in College Park.

A merger would be a reunification: The two institutions were a single university from 1920 until 1970.

Miller, a graduate of both College Park and the law school, was behind the previous merger proposal. He has co-sponsored Ferguson's legislation.

He said the 30 miles that separate the two campuses are less of a barrier in the Internet age.

"This is about the state of Maryland," he said. "It's not about promoting one campus over another. It's about moving our research forward, moving our startups forward, making Baltimore the place it once was and can be again."

House Speaker Michael E. Busch backs the concept but has some concerns about executing it, his chief of staff said.

"The speaker is certainly open to the idea," Chief of Staff Alexandra Hughes said. "He wants to ensure the universities maintain a strong Baltimore presence and continue to serve as being some of the best in the country."

Supporters steered clear of calling it a merger, preferring "strategic partnership." But the surviving institution would be known as The University of Maryland, and some overlapping administrative jobs at the two colleges would be combined.

University system officials said it was too early to say how many positions could be combined, or lost.

Anderson said the legislation would ensure that the structures of the two institutions remained intact. Some Baltimore leaders feared that the previous measure would have meant the medical and law schools would move out of the city.

Wallace Loh, president of the College Park institution, said the legislation could build on the successes of MPower.

Under that agreement, an engineering professor in College Park and a neurosurgeon in Baltimore collaborated to invent a tiny robot that can remove brain tumors. The invention has been patented and is on its way to commercialization, he said.

The universities have grown from one joint faculty appointment to 60, and those professors have generated $70 million in research funding.

Loh said he wasn't concerned about whether one or two presidents would lead the combined institution.

"We have lost as a state 40 years of research opportunities and advances because we were separated," he said. "Once we bring the two together, there's far more that we can do."

The president of the student body in College Park agreed.

"It's something that's really beneficial to students of College Park and UM Baltimore," Patrick Ronk said. "It can keep the highest-ranking Maryland high school students in the state, and we would attract more really qualified out-of-state students as well."

University system Chancellor Robert Caret said in a statement that he was still reviewing the legislation and would offer an opinion at a later date.

Regent James Brady said he feared the Baltimore institution would be "totally subsumed" by College Park, which he said would hurt Baltimore at a time when the city is in "crisis."

"It is a takeover by College Park of UMB," Brady said. "At the first opportunity there will be one president, and it will not be the Baltimore president, I assure you."

Regent Gary Attman called the bill "MPower on steroids."

"I think we all want to be protective to Baltimore City," he said. "But I don't see any downside."

Baltimore Sun reporter Erin Cox contributed to this article from Annapolis.

cwells@baltsun.com


Htown, you don't know how Universities operate in the southeast and the loudness of your mouth might win an argument in NYC but not in the southeast. Arrogance is also not a substitute for intelligence.

What you are doing is reinforcing a negative stereotype - that of the loud mouthed, opinionated Yankee, who is opining about something he knows nothing about. For the benefit of loud mouthed Yankees everywhere, just stop.

I'll help you get started on your research https://report.nih.gov/award/index.cfm

Check out the NIH and look at what UMB got just this year in NIH funding and you will understand why MDCP without a medical school and other key professional schools would do just about anything to take over UMB and would use any tool direct or indirect to further that agenda, an agenda that is decades old.

One last little bit for you regarding the university politics in MD: https://www.umaryland.edu/news/archived-...ership.php

You are amusing. You still have avoided my direct question, twice. Your first response is drivel. Your second response proves the point that I have made that the State didn't actually hold back Maryland.

This article proves Maryland was acting in its own interest and made moves to work with UMB PRIOR any interest in the B1G. MPower was in place before the B1G became an option for Maryland.

Regarding the UMB grants, you justify the action as if it was magical. In the business world, it is merely a merger/acquisition (or hostile take over, depending on if the view is for or against the merger). If it makes sense, do it. For the record, UMB received $140+MM in FY '14, $130+MM in FY '15 and $50+MM in FY '16. If I was being half as arrogant as you, I would make a harsh statement how Maryland has negatively impacted UMB's grants; the truth is that grants come and go in cycles and many factors go into what is researched and who gets the grants.

I haven't been arrogant, only trying to get you to stop preaching how saintly Maryland just had to make the move because they could not be elite in the ACC, how the State held them back from being elite. Duke, UNC, Virginia are generally considered elite and they do fine. They also happen to be southeastern schools.

Anyway, enjoy the B1G. As I have stated several times, I have no issue with a school making a decision in their best interest, I harbor no ill will against Maryland.

You obviously didn't read my response.

(04-25-2016 10:58 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(04-22-2016 03:37 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  It depends on who you ask ... [t]he negative comments cited include ... adding Big East schools ...

(04-22-2016 07:34 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Regarding expansion, no MD got nothing out of adding ... Syracuse to the conference per se and their placement in the Atlantic put them up against the one Florida team that they didn't have a history with and cut them out of football games with UNC and VT who have large alumni contingents int eh greater DC area.

(04-22-2016 07:34 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  [In the context of UMD's feeling about "expansion," n]o one at NC State gets any particular thrill about a football game with ... Syracuse, especially if it means a game at the concrete floor of the Carrier Dome when it's still warm in upstate NY.

(04-25-2016 07:57 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  What are you smoking weed or drinking and who blamed Syracuse for anything regarding MD?

Yeah, I have no idea where I got the feeling that someone was accusing Syracuse. I must be smoking and drinking. You got me.

Keep the following in mind:

(04-25-2016 09:47 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  [T]he loudness of your mouth might win an argument in NYC but not in the southeast. Arrogance is also not a substitute for intelligence.

Ok I read it. What is Syracuse being accused of?

(04-26-2016 12:02 AM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  Htown, here's my response.

My question still stands, what stopped Maryland from becoming elite prior to leaving the ACC?

(1) The State never funded the university at the level required to make it a truly elite institution.

(2) Although the university is on top of the pecking order for state funding, it still has to compete against several, regional schools whose overall needs are greater due to the State’s failure to properly fund these schools in prior years.

(3) With respect to private money, until recent years, university fundraising was more or less a mom and pop operation, where college students were paid a minimum wage to make cold calls during the evening hours.

(4) The amateurism of the university’s private fundraising efforts is reflected in the university’s endowment, which is still small (approx. $1 billion) for a state flagship school with a large alumni base.

If you so wish to hold elite as "only those with med schools" that is your choice. However, that is not accurate. As for the AAU, so what? Syracuse sold their med school to the State of New York? Did Syracuse go from elite to loser school because they helped the State? That is the essence of your claim.

(1) No offense, but your opinion doesn’t matter. All that matters is what university administrators and state officials think.

(2) Maryland regards large, state flagship schools that provide full service as its peers.

(3) Maryland wants to be regarded as a full blown, elite research institution. By taking over the professional schools, it simply chose to take a shortcut to reach that objective.

My point is that Maryland could have improved itself had it chosen to do so without the professional schools. At some point, they could have swayed the legislature from the nonsense of blocking Maryland from becoming elite and having its own professional schools.

(1) That’s not the point. University administrators and certain state officials from the Maryland suburbs of DC wanted the merger and have sought the merger for decades.

(2) Historically, Baltimore has been the center of political power in the State. They are proud of having the oldest state educational institution in their city and have wanted it to remain independent (i.e., they don’t want an agriculture/military school from down state taking control.

Instead, it took the devious machinations of a super gambler who played everyone to think that Maryland sports were holding it back (his excuse to destroy the proud hoops and gridiron teams) from being elite. This action fooled everyone as Maryland went in deep debt to rebuild sports (Yow) to fool the legislature into allowing Maryland to usurp the professional schools in Baltimore.

(1) The debt wasn’t as deep as you think. The athletic department was running an annual deficit of nearly $5 million, primarily due to a steep decline in ticket sales (since reversed) and the failure of the Terrapin Club, a nonprofit organization that raises funds for athletic scholarships, to adopt modern fundraising practices (since reversed).

(2) The $17 million deficit projected to occur in FY 2017 was most likely based on the absolute worst case scenario. Obviously, that was unrealistic.

(3) The balance of power has shifted in the State, favoring the Maryland suburbs of DC over Baltimore. Our new governor is from the DC suburbs as will be our next US Senator.

Add to that, with the known donors and the very benevolent Under Armour support, the fact that Maryland has no real history with the B1G (OK, you have played Rutger and PSU, but let's not pretend you were on any of the traditional B1G schools' annual opponents list) your argument is weakened.

(1) Kevin Plank, founder of UA, was a board of Trustee member in 2012. He favored the move to BIG.

(2) Plank has said he didn’t play a big role in Maryland’s decision to move to BIG, but he also did nothing when the athletic department’s financial troubles became known.

Thank you for being candid. As to whether a State adequately funds a university will always be in question as every State school has the same issue, not enough funds to pursue every academic avenue they may wish to pursue. Private schools have the same issues but with less alumni to fill in where the State falls short.

Note that I have not mocked or complained about the merger, I have only asked that the nonsense that Maryland "HAD TO" merge and "HAD TO" go to the B1G were not accurate. As evidenced by LP's article, they were already working together with UMB realizing they could join forces for bigger things BEFORE the option to join the B1G appeared. The merger was in the works anyway, per LP's article.

Regarding LP's comments that Syracuse, Pitt and BC add nothing to Maryland, I can buy the claim, though Maryland did play Syracuse nearly as much as PSU, and Maryland has no significant history with the B1G schools, now reconcile the comment with the change in opponents, does Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, et al. really add anything to Maryland?

The truth is simple, which is what I stated to begin with, Maryland did what was in their interest, no need to to pretend this was the only way for Maryland to improve itself.

I still have no ill will towards Maryland, they did was in their best interest and I wish them well (not well enough to beat Michigan and tOSU - I was stationed in Ohio for several years and followed these two schools closely and still follow them somewhat) but well enough to beat Rutgers annually and at least hold their own against PSU (if not outright beat them annually, too).

Htown is simply unreal.

I know NY State provides UMD a bunch of students. One of my best friends went to UMD outta HS.

Let us say this is what happens::

Norte Football Independent

Football Schools
1. Boston College
2. Syracuse
3. Pitt
4. Maryland
5. Virginia
6. Virginia Tech
7. West Virginia
8. Louisville
9. North Carolina
10. North Carolina State
11. Duke
12. Wake Forest
13. Clemson
14. Georgia Tech
15. FSU
16. Miami

One hell of a valuable conference.

(04-27-2016 09:20 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Htown is simply unreal.

You are the one trying to fool everyone into thinking that Maryland is victim of conference realignment. Maryland voted to expand. NORTH! Reconcile that with your claim that Maryland did not benefit from northern expansion. Further, reconcile the same comment with the fact that most, if not all, of the B1G is north of Maryland. It is your comment that Maryland is a southern team, so explain why they join a NORTHER conference.

Again, Maryland did what was best for them, short sweet, to the point, no more, no less. Maryland was happy expanding with BC more than a decade ago, and again with Syracuse and Pitt, just a few years ago. To make up the nonsense and drivel about how the ACC robbed them of their southern tradition and games is disingenuous. To make an excuse that the State held Maryland back when Maryland was improving itself and drawing closer to UMB before anything happened with the B1G. Believe what you like, just don't sell your snake oil here.

(04-27-2016 08:27 PM)HtownOrange Wrote:  

(04-27-2016 09:20 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Htown is simply unreal.

You are the one trying to fool everyone into thinking that Maryland is victim of conference realignment. Maryland voted to expand. NORTH! Reconcile that with your claim that Maryland did not benefit from northern expansion. Further, reconcile the same comment with the fact that most, if not all, of the B1G is north of Maryland. It is your comment that Maryland is a southern team, so explain why they join a NORTHER conference.

Again, Maryland did what was best for them, short sweet, to the point, no more, no less. Maryland was happy expanding with BC more than a decade ago, and again with Syracuse and Pitt, just a few years ago. To make up the nonsense and drivel about how the ACC robbed them of their southern tradition and games is disingenuous. To make an excuse that the State held Maryland back when Maryland was improving itself and drawing closer to UMB before anything happened with the B1G. Believe what you like, just don't sell your snake oil here.

There are a number of services and agencies that will help you with your reading comprehension problem, however I know of no services or agencies than can help your other obvious deficits.