Say what you will about the former AD, Darryl Gross, but the guy made some strategic hires that turned out to be great hires, although I don't think a Lacrosse coach should be making $1 million per year. Gross whiffed on hiring Greg Robinson as a fb coach but made up for it with Doug Marrone. Although I don't think he could ever have pulled off hiring Dino Babers, because he seems more like a snake oil salesman, he really raised the bar with his hires at Cuse and was a very successful AD at SU.

Cuse Top Ten Link

Capital One Cup

Congratulation

(04-21-2016 08:44 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  Say what you will about the former AD, Darryl Gross, but the guy made some strategic hires that turned out to be great hires, although I don't think a Lacrosse coach should be making $1 million per year. Gross whiffed on hiring Greg Robinson as a fb coach but made up for it with Doug Marrone. Although I don't think he could ever have pulled off hiring Dino Babers, because he seems more like a snake oil salesman, he really raised the bar with his hires at Cuse and was a very successful AD at SU.

Cuse Top Ten Link

Capital One Cup

BOLD: I actually disagree. I think that he was a great AD. I think that SU has a difficult fan base to manage because there are at least 3 significant contingents of fans with different needs, desires, and wants. There are a significant number of NYC fans/donors who want NYC exposure, there are a significant number of local fans (SU has a public school-like following in CNY) who want good games close to Syracuse, and there are alums who want games against their hometown teams (i.e. for bragging rights), even though those games might not be the most competitive (i.e. a game vs. UConn/BC might mean more than a game against UL, even though UL is more competitive).

Managing those groups is not an easy task, especially when your goal is to create a world-class athletic department while living in the weakest and poorest power conference (i.e. the last iteration of the BIG EAST).

In my honest opinion, he gets a lot of hate because he catered to everyone, so no one group was ever completely satisfied. However, he found ways to keep money flowing into the AD (even when football was very down), and he built a very successful athletic machine. He was a good AD, and he would have eventually ironed out football. He improved our conference standing (i.e. the jump from the BIG EAST to the ACC) and he improved our facilities. Those are the building blocks for hiring a big-name new coach.

(04-21-2016 09:49 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(04-21-2016 08:44 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  Say what you will about the former AD, Darryl Gross, but the guy made some strategic hires that turned out to be great hires, although I don't think a Lacrosse coach should be making $1 million per year. Gross whiffed on hiring Greg Robinson as a fb coach but made up for it with Doug Marrone. Although I don't think he could ever have pulled off hiring Dino Babers, because he seems more like a snake oil salesman, he really raised the bar with his hires at Cuse and was a very successful AD at SU.

Cuse Top Ten Link

Capital One Cup

BOLD: I actually disagree. I think that he was a great AD. I think that SU has a difficult fan base to manage because there are at least 3 significant contingents of fans with different needs, desires, and wants. There are a significant number of NYC fans/donors who want NYC exposure, there are a significant number of local fans (SU has a public school-like following in CNY) who want good games close to Syracuse, and there are alums who want games against their hometown teams (i.e. for bragging rights), even though those games might not be the most competitive (i.e. a game vs. UConn/BC might mean more than a game against UL, even though UL is more competitive).

Managing those groups is not an easy task, especially when your goal is to create a world-class athletic department while living in the weakest and poorest power conference (i.e. the last iteration of the BIG EAST).

In my honest opinion, he gets a lot of hate because he catered to everyone, so no one group was ever completely satisfied. However, he found ways to keep money flowing into the AD (even when football was very down), and he built a very successful athletic machine. He was a good AD, and he would have eventually ironed out football. He improved our conference standing (i.e. the jump from the BIG EAST to the ACC) and he improved our facilities. Those are the building blocks for hiring a big-name new coach.

Actually, we agree about Gross. I think he was a great AD. I don't know how one could read my post and conclude that I thought he wasn't a great AD. I don't agree with everything he did, but that doesn't mean he was a bad AD. SU finishing in the top 10 of the Capital One and Directors Cup, all credit goes to Dr Gross. My point about him pulling in Dino Babers was strictly because our current AD, Coyle has an opposite type of personality. While Gross was very outgoing and aggressive, Coyle seems to be more laid back and sincere and genuine.

I read somewhere that Babers and Coyle had discussed the Syracuse job for 2 weeks before he accepted and the announcement was made because he didn't want it going public before the Mac Championship game. He mentioned how he trusted Coyle and he believed everything Coyle said and accepted the job without ever stepping foot on campus. I don't know if that kind of genuiness would have been reflected in Babers personality over the phone. But I dont know any of these guys personally and just making statements based off what I see in the media. So I could be totally off.

(04-21-2016 11:49 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-21-2016 09:49 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(04-21-2016 08:44 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  Say what you will about the former AD, Darryl Gross, but the guy made some strategic hires that turned out to be great hires, although I don't think a Lacrosse coach should be making $1 million per year. Gross whiffed on hiring Greg Robinson as a fb coach but made up for it with Doug Marrone. Although I don't think he could ever have pulled off hiring Dino Babers, because he seems more like a snake oil salesman, he really raised the bar with his hires at Cuse and was a very successful AD at SU.

Cuse Top Ten Link

Capital One Cup

BOLD: I actually disagree. I think that he was a great AD. I think that SU has a difficult fan base to manage because there are at least 3 significant contingents of fans with different needs, desires, and wants. There are a significant number of NYC fans/donors who want NYC exposure, there are a significant number of local fans (SU has a public school-like following in CNY) who want good games close to Syracuse, and there are alums who want games against their hometown teams (i.e. for bragging rights), even though those games might not be the most competitive (i.e. a game vs. UConn/BC might mean more than a game against UL, even though UL is more competitive).

Managing those groups is not an easy task, especially when your goal is to create a world-class athletic department while living in the weakest and poorest power conference (i.e. the last iteration of the BIG EAST).

In my honest opinion, he gets a lot of hate because he catered to everyone, so no one group was ever completely satisfied. However, he found ways to keep money flowing into the AD (even when football was very down), and he built a very successful athletic machine. He was a good AD, and he would have eventually ironed out football. He improved our conference standing (i.e. the jump from the BIG EAST to the ACC) and he improved our facilities. Those are the building blocks for hiring a big-name new coach.

Actually, we agree about Gross. I think he was a great AD. I don't know how one could read my post and conclude that I thought he wasn't a great AD. I don't agree with everything he did, but that doesn't mean he was a bad AD. SU finishing in the top 10 of the Capital One and Directors Cup, all credit goes to Dr Gross. My point about him pulling in Dino Babers was strictly because our current AD, Coyle has an opposite type of personality. While Gross was very outgoing and aggressive, Coyle seems to be more laid back and sincere and genuine.

I read somewhere that Babers and Coyle had discussed the Syracuse job for 2 weeks before he accepted and the announcement was made because he didn't want it going public before the Mac Championship game. He mentioned how he trusted Coyle and he believed everything Coyle said and accepted the job without ever stepping foot on campus. I don't know if that kind of genuiness would have been reflected in Babers personality over the phone. But I donr know any of these guys personally and just making statements based off what I see in the media. So I could be totally off.

To clarify, I mean I disagree with the part that I bolded, not the rest.

I also think that DG is MUCH smarter than Coyle and has much more vision. Admittedly, I'm judging Coyle on a small sample size, which isn't fair to the guy, so I will keep my mind open about him. However, he seems more knee-jerk to me.

To one of your other points, DG was called "Hollywood" for a reason, but being a PR guy is half of his job. The other half is winning, which he did better than almost anybody in the business (i.e. find another big-time school that did more with less). To me, that's what differentiates him from the snake oil guys. As you noted, he sold a product that worked.

[EDIT: To further clarify, the beginning and the last two lines were in direct response to what you wrote. The rest (i.e. the middle) was just framing to give my last two lines legitimacy.]

(04-21-2016 08:44 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  Say what you will about the former AD, Darryl Gross, but the guy made some strategic hires that turned out to be great hires, although I don't think a Lacrosse coach should be making $1 million per year. Gross whiffed on hiring Greg Robinson as a fb coach but made up for it with Doug Marrone. Although I don't think he could ever have pulled off hiring Dino Babers, because he seems more like a snake oil salesman, he really raised the bar with his hires at Cuse and was a very successful AD at SU.

Cuse Top Ten Link

Capital One Cup

I definitely agree with this part. For that kind of money in that sport, Syracuse should have a string of 5 to 10 national championships! (Even then, it's not worth it in terms of ROI, but at least you could feel like you were getting SOMETHING).

(04-21-2016 01:01 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-21-2016 08:44 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  Say what you will about the former AD, Darryl Gross, but the guy made some strategic hires that turned out to be great hires, although I don't think a Lacrosse coach should be making $1 million per year. Gross whiffed on hiring Greg Robinson as a fb coach but made up for it with Doug Marrone. Although I don't think he could ever have pulled off hiring Dino Babers, because he seems more like a snake oil salesman, he really raised the bar with his hires at Cuse and was a very successful AD at SU.

Cuse Top Ten Link

Capital One Cup

I definitely agree with this part. For that kind of money in that sport, Syracuse should have a string of 5 to 10 national championships! (Even then, it's not worth it in terms of ROI, but at least you could feel like you were getting SOMETHING).

SU actually has 11 national championships in lacrosse. More than any other team, even John Hopkins. But you are right. Its not a real good ROI. At least SU does make money off of lacrosse that helps to fund other programs.

(04-21-2016 01:11 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-21-2016 01:01 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-21-2016 08:44 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  Say what you will about the former AD, Darryl Gross, but the guy made some strategic hires that turned out to be great hires, although I don't think a Lacrosse coach should be making $1 million per year. Gross whiffed on hiring Greg Robinson as a fb coach but made up for it with Doug Marrone. Although I don't think he could ever have pulled off hiring Dino Babers, because he seems more like a snake oil salesman, he really raised the bar with his hires at Cuse and was a very successful AD at SU.

Cuse Top Ten Link

Capital One Cup

I definitely agree with this part. For that kind of money in that sport, Syracuse should have a string of 5 to 10 national championships! (Even then, it's not worth it in terms of ROI, but at least you could feel like you were getting SOMETHING).

SU actually has 11 national championships in lacrosse. More than any other team, even John Hopkins. But you are right. Its not a real good ROI. At least SU does make money off of lacrosse that helps to fund other programs.

$1,000,000 for a HoF lax coach is actually probably an above median RoI for Syracuse. SU lax makes money, which isn't true for most sports.

IMHO, the bigger issue is that it's the women's lax coach. I don't think that women's lax makes money.

Congratulations to Syracuse.

Since the totals are in for only the fall and winter seasons, does anyone know when the spring sports totals will be in and then when the final rankings for 2015-16 will be in?

(04-21-2016 02:06 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  $1,000,000 for a HoF lax coach is actually probably an above median RoI for Syracuse.

THAT IS SAD.

Quote:IMHO, the bigger issue is that it's the women's lax coach. I don't think that women's lax makes money.

That's even sadder.

(04-21-2016 03:52 PM)XLance Wrote:  Since the totals are in for only the fall and winter seasons, does anyone know when the spring sports totals will be in and then when the final rankings for 2015-16 will be in?

I think Baseball is the last sport and it is in late June.

(04-21-2016 04:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-21-2016 02:06 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  $1,000,000 for a HoF lax coach is actually probably an above median RoI for Syracuse.

THAT IS SAD.

Quote:IMHO, the bigger issue is that it's the women's lax coach. I don't think that women's lax makes money.

That's even sadder.

Let me rephrase to be more clear. Syracuse's RoI on a $1,000,000 HoF coach is probably above the median for any school in the country. SU lax makes money, unlike the vast majority of sports at every school in the country.

The problem is that it's for the HoF women's coach/men's coach-in-waiting, not the men's coach (yet).

You mean Cuse charges fans to see women's sports... And they pay?

(04-21-2016 05:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  You mean Cuse charges fans to see women's sports... And they pay?

Today isn't my day for clarity. The problem isn't paying for a lax coach. That's actually probably a good investment. SU makes money directly, which beats most athletic investments at every school.

The problem is that it's for a women's lax coach, and women's lax loses money. The fact that it's the men's lax coach heir apparent is silver lining, but it is t silver enough if you know what I mean.