#128 UMass-Independent
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Great to see Umass in their rightful position...dead last.

All this talk about EMU not pulling their weight, we already cut out the dead weight with UMASS.

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(04-21-2016 12:12 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  All this talk about EMU not pulling their weight, we already cut out the dead weight with UMASS.

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Not sure where the talk of EMU not pulling their weight is coming from? Sounds more like they may be cutting a lot of weight soon.

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2016/04/20/t...50.twitter

If EMU drops football i guess it could open the door for a return to the MAC as Football only for BC. Although with the Independent schedule being put together so far I'm not sure it would be of much interest.

All kidding aside I really hope EMU doesn't set the precedence for dropping down or cutting football that doesn't help anyone and would really suck for the nearly 4,900 fans.

(04-21-2016 12:20 PM)Sam Minuteman Wrote:  Not sure where the talk of EMU not pulling their weight is coming from? Sounds more like they may be cutting a lot of weight soon.

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2016/04/20/t...50.twitter

I'm surprised Terry Foster speculates that EMU would drop all the way to Division II. The GLIAC? Not the Missouri Valley for football?

(The GLIAC might actually make the most sense if the goal is to save money. But it seems like it would be a bold move. I'm surprised Foster would make that leap.)

I also wonder what is meant, precisely, by the idea that EMU has "lost" $52 million on athletics during the past two years. If it was backfilled with student activity fee revenue, that headline would seem melodramatic.

People that suggest that football programs will drop to D-II when they can't compete are idiots. They never understand that you have to move ALL sports between divisions. Why drop to D-II when you could go to the FCS or even be a non-football D-I school? Especially when nearly all of your other programs are quite successful in D-I.

I'll say this: Eastern Michigan would absolutely dominate the GLIAC. The largest stadium in the league, at Grand Valley State, has fewer than 11,000 seats. I assume EMU's Convocation Center would also be palatial in that league.

(04-21-2016 05:03 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  I'll say this: Eastern Michigan would absolutely dominate the GLIAC. The largest stadium in the league, at Grand Valley State, has fewer than 11,000 seats. I assume EMU's Convocation Center would also be palatial in that league.

GVSU would still out draw them.

*IF* EMU decided to make a move do you know what Michigan does not have? An FCS team.. Could be a nice Niche considering their facilities, at the FCS level, are pretty decent. They will be able to compete well for Michigan kids on the FCS/FBS bubble

(04-21-2016 05:59 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  *IF* EMU decided to make a move do you know what Michigan does not have? An FCS team.. Could be a nice Niche considering their facilities, at the FCS level, are pretty decent. They will be able to compete well for Michigan kids on the FCS/FBS bubble

That is my traditional thinking on the EMU subject. They would have made the FCS playoffs with those teams in the last decade that won the Michigan MAC championship.

With the loss of revenue moving from an FBS conference to an FCS it may not make financial sense to move down. What may make more sense is to just drop the football program entirely where deep cuts can be made.

Would the MAC allow EMU to stay in the conference without FB? At one time that was a resounding no but maybe MAC presidents are ready for a change in philosophy.

(04-21-2016 12:20 PM)Sam Minuteman Wrote:  

(04-21-2016 12:12 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  All this talk about EMU not pulling their weight, we already cut out the dead weight with UMASS.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Not sure where the talk of EMU not pulling their weight is coming from? Sounds more like they may be cutting a lot of weight soon.

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2016/04/20/t...50.twitter

If EMU drops football i guess it could open the door for a return to the MAC as Football only for BC. Although with the Independent schedule being put together so far I'm not sure it would be of much interest.

All kidding aside I really hope EMU doesn't set the precedence for dropping down or cutting football that doesn't help anyone and would really suck for the nearly 4,900 fans.

The possibility of EMU dropping football on a 10 point scale:

Say '6'. Oops, I meant MINUS '6'.

or using political metaphor:

Ted Cruz winning the presidency and nominating Hillary for the Supreme Court.

or scientists proves the Catholic Church, of old, correct: The earth is flat.

Actually EMU wants to improve Rynearson. Not drop football.

I live in the Washington, D.C. area where journalism is very, very good. Then I see the HBO stuff and those folks probably would have flunked out out Ohio's journalism school...

(04-21-2016 04:27 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  People that suggest that football programs will drop to D-II when they can't compete are idiots. They never understand that you have to move ALL sports between divisions. Why drop to D-II when you could go to the FCS or even be a non-football D-I school? Especially when nearly all of your other programs are quite successful in D-I.

I have no opinion on if they should or shouldn't drop down, but I believe the NCAA has a rule requiring any school with D1 basketball to be at least FCS in football. Dayton was D3 in football until the early 90s until they had to move to FCS. I also think the rule is the reason the Pioneer Conference is FCS non-scholarship.

(04-22-2016 07:09 AM)Eagle66 Wrote:  

(04-21-2016 04:27 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  People that suggest that football programs will drop to D-II when they can't compete are idiots. They never understand that you have to move ALL sports between divisions. Why drop to D-II when you could go to the FCS or even be a non-football D-I school? Especially when nearly all of your other programs are quite successful in D-I.

I have no opinion on if they should or shouldn't drop down, but I believe the NCAA has a rule requiring any school with D1 basketball to be at least FCS in football. Dayton was D3 in football until the early 90s until they had to move to FCS. I also think the rule is the reason the Pioneer Conference is FCS non-scholarship.

Yes. A school that fields both a men's basketball team and a football team must play both sports in Division I. On the other hand, Division I schools are not required to field a football team, as Cleveland State, Wright State, and many other schools demonstrate. The NCAA used to call these Division I non-football schools "Division I-AAA." I'm not sure what the official term is now.

EMU will not drop FB or drop down level(s) in FB (because it would require movement to a new conference).

The academic point, er, the financial question, and I don't know the answer is (simply):

How much does it cost a MAC team to field a FBS football team AND how much revenue is attributable to that team?

Most of EMU's athletic revenues come from FB road game guarantees, CFP and ESPN monies received through the MAC, donor monies, away game revenues in MBB, NCAA basketball monies (received through the MAC), and home game revenues in FB and MBB.

IF EMU dropped out of the MAC or dropped FB, I'd guess approximately 3 - 3.5M (annually) in FB road game guarantees and CFP/ESPN monies, which is mostly because of FB, not MBB, would be gone. Donor monies would probably dry up unless the MBB team made the NCAA tourney.

I'd love to see the revenues (and expenses) for say Detroit-Mercy or Oakland. That is what EMU would essentially be looking at, i.e., a 'model'. Oakland draws well in MBB. Detroit-Mercy does not.

Does EMU wish to be like Oakland?????????????

#126 Tulane-AAC

(04-22-2016 06:21 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  #126 Tulane-AAC

thank you for keeping this list updated and for getting this thread (at least temporarily) back on subject!

(04-22-2016 08:57 AM)emu steve Wrote:  EMU will not drop FB or drop down level(s) in FB (because it would require movement to a new conference).

The academic point, er, the financial question, and I don't know the answer is (simply):

How much does it cost a MAC team to field a FBS football team AND how much revenue is attributable to that team?

Most of EMU's athletic revenues come from FB road game guarantees, CFP and ESPN monies received through the MAC, donor monies, away game revenues in MBB, NCAA basketball monies (received through the MAC), and home game revenues in FB and MBB.

IF EMU dropped out of the MAC or dropped FB, I'd guess approximately 3 - 3.5M (annually) in FB road game guarantees and CFP/ESPN monies, which is mostly because of FB, not MBB, would be gone. Donor monies would probably dry up unless the MBB team made the NCAA tourney.

I'd love to see the revenues (and expenses) for say Detroit-Mercy or Oakland. That is what EMU would essentially be looking at, i.e., a 'model'. Oakland draws well in MBB. Detroit-Mercy does not.

Does EMU wish to be like Oakland?????????????

3-3.5 Million annually from money game? Hmmn, last year EMU player 1 money game at LSU. Next year they play 1 money game at Missouri. Even if Missouri pays them 1 million that's 2-2.5 million less than you suggest.

ESPN TV money is pretty minimal, plus they require a fairly expensive HD broadcast capability by the school.

How much do you suggest they make in home game revenues? I've been to a couple EMU football and basketball games. Attendance each time was in the hundreds, not thousands, and the amount of paid staff per attendee was a ratio of about 1 to 5. Based on ticket prices, parking, concessions (I had a hard time finding anywhere in the football stadium to buy anything) I don't see either sport home games doing anything better than covering costs - on a good day. Plus, EMU usually brings in an FCS team they have to pay fairly well to show up.

Football requires 85 scholarships, extensive medical and training staff and equipment, large recruiting budgets, a staff that dwarfs all other teams on campus, stadium upkeep and maintenance, marketing and promotion staff and budgets... To not bleed out money as a lower level D1 program you need a reliable fan base of 15k or more, a willingness to play multiple money games on the road, and the support of enough of the community believing that major college football is worth the expense. Some MAC schools like Ohio, Toledo, Western have generally been to maintain D1 football as a break even type deal. Even very successful programs like NIU have struggled with costs. NIU made the unpopular decision in recent years to give up home games against name opponents for buyouts, road money games, etc... because they needed the money.

3 - 3.5M included (in my calcs): About 1.5M from road game guarantees (FB), 1+M from CFP, and the rest from MAC media rights, which is essentially FB generated monies. They don't pay much for basketball, etc.

You do make good points about how expensive football is especially salaries and medical costs, stadium upkeep, equipment, etc.

I always wondered how much it cost for health insurance for a college football player, one of the most dangerous 'occupations' in America. Does the university supplement what the family may have or do they have a blanket policy for all student athletes?

I remember (I think) when I was college aged, my health expenses were pretty close to zero dollars, most dental and eye (contact lens). My biggest expense was getting stitched up after getting hit with a puck in intramural hockey.

(04-23-2016 03:48 AM)pono Wrote:  

(04-22-2016 08:57 AM)emu steve Wrote:  EMU will not drop FB or drop down level(s) in FB (because it would require movement to a new conference).

The academic point, er, the financial question, and I don't know the answer is (simply):

How much does it cost a MAC team to field a FBS football team AND how much revenue is attributable to that team?

Most of EMU's athletic revenues come from FB road game guarantees, CFP and ESPN monies received through the MAC, donor monies, away game revenues in MBB, NCAA basketball monies (received through the MAC), and home game revenues in FB and MBB.

IF EMU dropped out of the MAC or dropped FB, I'd guess approximately 3 - 3.5M (annually) in FB road game guarantees and CFP/ESPN monies, which is mostly because of FB, not MBB, would be gone. Donor monies would probably dry up unless the MBB team made the NCAA tourney.

I'd love to see the revenues (and expenses) for say Detroit-Mercy or Oakland. That is what EMU would essentially be looking at, i.e., a 'model'. Oakland draws well in MBB. Detroit-Mercy does not.

Does EMU wish to be like Oakland?????????????

3-3.5 Million annually from money game? Hmmn, last year EMU player 1 money game at LSU. Next year they play 1 money game at Missouri. Even if Missouri pays them 1 million that's 2-2.5 million less than you suggest.

ESPN TV money is pretty minimal, plus they require a fairly expensive HD broadcast capability by the school.

Here is all the money that would be off the table for EMU in FCS:

1) The 1 million dollar road game guarantee.

2) The 850k TV deal from the MAC.

3) CFP money which is approximately 1.5 million (base, bonus, academic)

4) 1 million in marketing and revenue.

5) Drop of 20 scholarships and 20 women's scholarships because of Title IX. The MAC gets about 2 million per school in scholarship support so this would be a drop of another 500k at least.

Add it all up its about 5 million dollar loss which is enough money to pay for a football program. EMU to FCS isn't a realistic financial option. The time to drop for EMU would have been 10 years ago, IMO before the revenues started to grow.

EMU could be for MAC football like Northwestern in B1G football where Detroit area MAC alums can conveniently come out to see their team. Imagine if CMU or WMU ever became Boise State good? They could fill it up at Rynearson stadium.

#125 Army-Independent