(04-20-2016 10:30 AM)YNot Wrote:  

(04-20-2016 09:36 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  As a competitor to the ESPN Family after the contract takes effect?

Personally I don't get FS-1 and 2 and haven't missed it (as there is very little on I would watch). FOX obviously is big time and I think their ratings will improve with more B1G games with the B12. I might look at adding FOX/FX/etc.. with my Sling Account but I'm taking a wait and see.

I wonder if FS 1 + 2 gather an audience anything close to ESPN/2/U? I'm not so sure.

Last year, FOX usually only broadcast one afternoon OR evening college football game on Saturday. Only three times did FOX have a Big 12 AND PAC 12 game on the same Saturday.

FS1 only had 1-2 college football games on 8 Saturdays in 2015. There were 3 games on Saturday only 5 times in 2015. FS1 only had 5 Thursday games, including opening night and Thanksgiving. There were only 5 Friday games, 2 of those on Black Friday. FS1's ratings were generally poor - but not many intriguing matchups.

Adding good B1G inventory is a game-changer.

Starting in 2017, I imagine that FOX would show at least two games most weekends. And, I would suspect that FS1 would show 3 game each week, with some weeks having 4 games from noon to 10pm ET. And, I would suspect that the FS1 ratings will improve quickly as Fox would have the inventory to place some quality matchups on FS1.

For basketball, FOX and FS1 will have pretty much all Big East inventory and 50 B1G bball games. They will be able to promote some pretty decent basketball games.

FS1 has been improving in ratings faster than anyone. People are just getting used to it and it often isn't grouped with the other sports channels on the dial. But this could turbocharge their improvement.

FS1's college football ratings were flat with 2014. And that's with Harbaughs 1st game included in that for FS1.

(04-20-2016 11:28 AM)stever20 Wrote:  If ESPN wasn't willing to spend money to get the Big Ten, which gets great ratings, they aren't going to spend more money for the ACC. The ACC's problem is that their football has maybe 4-5 games for the entire year that anyone gives a damn about. With this massive increase for the Big Ten, it's going to be nearly impossible for the ACC to keep up. And ESPN isn't creating a network for the ACC in this climate.

They already have...they are paying an extra $3M per team. There are more than 4-5 games the entire year people give a damn about...plus the ACC fills a ton of watchable content in the winter.

They will not lose their core teams. You are also forgetting that Notre Dame is involved

BTW stever...you mean flat in 2015 not 2014

(04-20-2016 10:22 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(04-20-2016 10:14 AM)PGEMF Wrote:  

(04-20-2016 10:03 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Some cable companies dropped all Fox channels including FX, Fox News, FS1 and so forth. They can't afford them and ESPN at the same time. This been going on since the early 2000.

Fox News and FX are in more households than ESPN. An

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2015/07...july-2015/

True...but really it is only a million or so homes...not that much of a difference.

FOX is OTA so in the era of cord cutting that is important.

Agreed, more to the point that these stations weren't being dropped

(04-20-2016 11:38 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(04-20-2016 11:28 AM)stever20 Wrote:  If ESPN wasn't willing to spend money to get the Big Ten, which gets great ratings, they aren't going to spend more money for the ACC. The ACC's problem is that their football has maybe 4-5 games for the entire year that anyone gives a damn about. With this massive increase for the Big Ten, it's going to be nearly impossible for the ACC to keep up. And ESPN isn't creating a network for the ACC in this climate.

They already have...they are paying an extra $3M per team. There are more than 4-5 games the entire year people give a damn about...plus the ACC fills a ton of watchable content in the winter.

They will not lose their core teams. You are also forgetting that Notre Dame is involved

BTW stever...you mean flat in 2015 not 2014

That 3 million was from before. The ACC was lagging behind before and it's just going to get worse.... ESPN isn't going to be able to bail out the ACC this time. Not with the constraints that ESPN has right now.

Notre Dame- for football it's 2-3 games a year. Nice, but no game changer.

I meant flat from 2014 to 2015.

(04-20-2016 11:34 AM)stever20 Wrote:  FS1's college football ratings were flat with 2014. And that's with Harbaughs 1st game included in that for FS1.

Have a link? I seem to recall reading that they were doing much, much better than they had. Couldn't quickly find any link with any discussion of it.

Another good pickup for FS1. You aren't going to topple ESPN in one move. FS1 is picking up a solid roster of sports content. Big Ten basketball for the winter months is a nice boost.

(04-20-2016 12:00 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Another good pickup for FS1. You aren't going to topple ESPN in one move. FS1 is picking up a solid roster of sports content. Big Ten basketball for the winter months is a nice boost.

And when they get better ratings with the Big 10 content, they'll be asking more in carriage fees to support that payment to the Big 10.

I applaud the Big Ten moving to Fox. It gets a conference I never watch onto a station I never watch. It's a win-win for me.

The only problem I see is the 11AM starts that ESPN regularly dumped on The Big Ten. Who will fill those slots now? Noon starts are bad enough 11AM is downright dreadful
CJ

(04-20-2016 12:02 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I applaud the Big Ten moving to Fox. It gets a conference I never watch onto a station I never watch. It's a win-win for me.

The only problem I see is the 11AM starts that ESPN regularly dumped on The Big Ten. Who will fill those slots now? Noon starts are bad enough 11AM is downright dreadful
CJ

ACC

(04-20-2016 11:43 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(04-20-2016 11:38 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(04-20-2016 11:28 AM)stever20 Wrote:  If ESPN wasn't willing to spend money to get the Big Ten, which gets great ratings, they aren't going to spend more money for the ACC. The ACC's problem is that their football has maybe 4-5 games for the entire year that anyone gives a damn about. With this massive increase for the Big Ten, it's going to be nearly impossible for the ACC to keep up. And ESPN isn't creating a network for the ACC in this climate.

They already have...they are paying an extra $3M per team. There are more than 4-5 games the entire year people give a damn about...plus the ACC fills a ton of watchable content in the winter.

They will not lose their core teams. You are also forgetting that Notre Dame is involved

BTW stever...you mean flat in 2015 not 2014

That 3 million was from before. The ACC was lagging behind before and it's just going to get worse.... ESPN isn't going to be able to bail out the ACC this time. Not with the constraints that ESPN has right now.

Notre Dame- for football it's 2-3 games a year. Nice, but no game changer.

I meant flat from 2014 to 2015.

The ACC messed up in three ways back in 2010. 1) They signed a 12 year deal with ESPN, just before the sports TV rights bubble, 2) they allowed ESPN to sublicense a huge piece of the deal to Raycom for the life of the deal, and 3) they included their tier 3 rights. When the ACC added Syracuse, Pittsburgh and Notre Dame, they increased the per school payout from $13 million/year to $20 million/year, but also extended the TV deal through 2027. Without the length of the TV deal and the long term Raycom sublicense, the ACC would almost certainly be a lot closer to the SEC and the B1G.

The SEC had signed a 15 year deal with ESPN (and CBS) in 2008, but the SEC kept their tier 3 rights and a sublicense granted to FSN was only short term. The SEC was able to leverage their tier 3 rights, the expiration of the FSN sublicense, and the addition of Texas A&M and Missouri to create the SEC Network and add tremendous value. However, the SEC's Tier 1 deal with CBS remains ridiculously under market.

The B1G signed its current TV deal with ESPN before either the SEC or ACC back in 2006, keeping it to a shorter 10 year deal that is expiring after this season. At the same time they created the BTN in a partnership with Fox. The B1G was able to use expansion to increase the footprint of the BTN and to add a CCG. Although there is a lot of uncertainty about the future of sports rights, the market is still well above where it was five years ago. By keeping its deal with ESPN to a shorter term deal (than the SEC or ACC), they are also going to the market as the only major sports property available. Frankly, by luck or by design, the B1G's TV strategy has been more successful than the SEC's and substantially more successful than the ACC's.

(04-20-2016 12:02 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I applaud the Big Ten moving to Fox. It gets a conference I never watch onto a station I never watch. It's a win-win for me.

The only problem I see is the 11AM starts that ESPN regularly dumped on The Big Ten. Who will fill those slots now? Noon starts are bad enough 11AM is downright dreadful
CJ

ACC 2nd Tier or AAC 1st Tier

(04-20-2016 12:03 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(04-20-2016 12:02 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I applaud the Big Ten moving to Fox. It gets a conference I never watch onto a station I never watch. It's a win-win for me.

The only problem I see is the 11AM starts that ESPN regularly dumped on The Big Ten. Who will fill those slots now? Noon starts are bad enough 11AM is downright dreadful
CJ

ACC

I do think the ACC and AAC will benefit from exposure. I think you will see more Noon and 6pm games both that were possibly ESPN 3 or news. More ACC games moving from ESPNU to ESPN2 and AAC getting more games on ESPNU than ESPN NEWS. As for the AAC getting more money, I think that will depend on other networks offering. If no other bidders, I don't see Disney/ESPN paying much more than they will have too since they are in the driver seat. I'd say the same for the ACC. A conference needs figures out a way to make money from cord cutters. The cash cow of TV revenue is slowly drying up.

(04-20-2016 12:02 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I applaud the Big Ten moving to Fox. It gets a conference I never watch onto a station I never watch. It's a win-win for me.

The only problem I see is the 11AM starts that ESPN regularly dumped on The Big Ten. Who will fill those slots now? Noon starts are bad enough 11AM is downright dreadful
CJ

Don't count your chickens before they're hatched, CJ. It's very likely that the Big Ten will still sell the rest of its rights to ESPN and it will just as likely ensure that all games will end up on either ABC or ESPN (and not any on ESPN2, ESPNU and/or ESPNEWS). The Big Ten will get the best ABC/ESPN time slots by contract (because they have shown that they know how to negotiate) and the rest of the conferences (outside of the SEC, who has also shown that they know how to negotiate) will get pushed to the worse time slots accordingly because they don't have those contractual protections.

Everyone needs to stop looking at the loss of half of Big Ten content as time slots for ABC or ESPN to fill. Unless the Big Ten completely leaves ESPN (still *extremely* unlikely), look at it as time slots on ESPN2, ESPNU and ESPNEWS to fill. None of the other conferences (except for the SEC, which is contractually protected) should get ANY hopes up about getting better treatment on ABC or the mothership ESPN.

My guess is FS1 doesn't become "legitimate", such as it is, until it gets included in the NFL contracts. Pro football legitimizes you quickly. That's how FOX did it. But those contracts don't come up until 2021, and I presume there's no way to divvy up the pie to create a slice for FS1 in the meantime.

(04-20-2016 01:34 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-20-2016 12:02 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I applaud the Big Ten moving to Fox. It gets a conference I never watch onto a station I never watch. It's a win-win for me.

The only problem I see is the 11AM starts that ESPN regularly dumped on The Big Ten. Who will fill those slots now? Noon starts are bad enough 11AM is downright dreadful
CJ

Don't count your chickens before they're hatched, CJ. It's very likely that the Big Ten will still sell the rest of its rights to ESPN and it will just as likely ensure that all games will end up on either ABC or ESPN (and not any on ESPN2, ESPNU and/or ESPNEWS). The Big Ten will get the best ABC/ESPN time slots by contract (because they have shown that they know how to negotiate) and the rest of the conferences (outside of the SEC, who has also shown that they know how to negotiate) will get pushed to the worse time slots accordingly because they don't have those contractual protections.

Everyone needs to stop looking at the loss of half of Big Ten content as time slots for ABC or ESPN to fill. Unless the Big Ten completely leaves ESPN (still *extremely* unlikely), look at it as time slots on ESPN2, ESPNU and ESPNEWS to fill. None of the other conferences (except for the SEC, which is contractually protected) should get ANY hopes up about getting better treatment on ABC or the mothership ESPN.

There is certainly a lot of truth to this Frank. However, I counted on http://mattsarzsports.com/Contract/GameList/BigTen/2015 that the B1G had 21 games on ABC last year and 9 on ESPN. That's 30 total as compared to 25 that would appear to be the maximum that ESPN could obtain. I doubt all 25 would be on ABC and ESPN unless ESPN gets the Tier 1 package exclusively. If it splits Tiers 1 and 2, at least half would of course be on those networks, or about one per week. Many of the rest may be on ESPN2.

The B1G also had 8 games on ESPN2 last year. Those are decent slots compared to ESPNU/3/News that other conferences would certainly love to have a chance fill. The B1G had 11 slots on ESPNU that are, again, way better than ESPN3/News for other conferences.

ESPN may have anticipated a loss of B1G games to some degree when it negotiated an increase of Big 12 games from 19 to 23 beginning in 2016.

(04-20-2016 01:07 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  I do think the ACC and AAC will benefit from exposure. I think you will see more Noon and 6pm games both that were possibly ESPN 3 or news. More ACC games moving from ESPNU to ESPN2 and AAC getting more games on ESPNU than ESPN NEWS. As for the AAC getting more money, I think that will depend on other networks offering. If no other bidders, I don't see Disney/ESPN paying much more than they will have too since they are in the driver seat. I'd say the same for the ACC. A conference needs figures out a way to make money from cord cutters. The cash cow of TV revenue is slowly drying up.

This could also release up ESPNNEWS to be rebranded as the ACC Network in a few years...we'll see.

(04-20-2016 01:34 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-20-2016 12:02 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I applaud the Big Ten moving to Fox. It gets a conference I never watch onto a station I never watch. It's a win-win for me.

The only problem I see is the 11AM starts that ESPN regularly dumped on The Big Ten. Who will fill those slots now? Noon starts are bad enough 11AM is downright dreadful
CJ

Don't count your chickens before they're hatched, CJ. It's very likely that the Big Ten will still sell the rest of its rights to ESPN and it will just as likely ensure that all games will end up on either ABC or ESPN (and not any on ESPN2, ESPNU and/or ESPNEWS). The Big Ten will get the best ABC/ESPN time slots by contract (because they have shown that they know how to negotiate) and the rest of the conferences (outside of the SEC, who has also shown that they know how to negotiate) will get pushed to the worse time slots accordingly because they don't have those contractual protections.

Everyone needs to stop looking at the loss of half of Big Ten content as time slots for ABC or ESPN to fill. Unless the Big Ten completely leaves ESPN (still *extremely* unlikely), look at it as time slots on ESPN2, ESPNU and ESPNEWS to fill. None of the other conferences (except for the SEC, which is contractually protected) should get ANY hopes up about getting better treatment on ABC or the mothership ESPN.

Frank...they aren't going to put crap on there (depends what the B1G would give them). I can't see Ruttie, Purdue, NW, ILL, Minnie and IU filling primo slots.

(04-20-2016 01:39 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  My guess is FS1 doesn't become "legitimate", such as it is, until it gets included in the NFL contracts. Pro football legitimizes you quickly. That's how FOX did it. But those contracts don't come up until 2021, and I presume there's no way to divvy up the pie to create a slice for FS1 in the meantime.

Great Point....

I think of FS1 as sorta like ESPN2.