These figures are the compilation of per school revenue (state schools) as posted by USA Today for 2016 and as compiled by a poster on another site (Woomba). I thought they would be very advantageous to the board:


AAC
Gross Revenue: $358,790,508
Gross Expenses: $356,365,717
NET Revenue: $-157,609,922
Total # of Members Operating in the Black: 0

ACC
Gross Revenue: $723,334,594
Gross Expenses: $702,026,754
Total Subsidy: $ 63,094,302
Net Revenue: $ -41,786,472
Total # of Members Operating in the Black: 1

PAC12
Gross Revenue: $812,552,080
Gross Expenses: $827,744,931
Total Subsidy: $ 72,241,043
Net Revenue: $ -87,433,894
Total # of Members Operating in the Black: 0

Big 12
Gross Revenue: $ 826,692,629
Gross Expenses: $ 787,934,609
Total Subsidy: $ 21,326,876
Net Revenue: $ 17,431,144
Total # of Members Operating in the Black: 3

Big 10
Gross Revenue: $1,410,479,573
Gross Expenses:$1,385,855,317
Total Subsidy: $ 61,171,491
Net Revenue: $ -36,547,235
Total # of Members Operating in the Black: 5

SEC
Gross Revenue: $1,592,721,374
Gross Expenses:$1,372,919,534
Total Subsidy: $ 17,220,431
Net Revenue: $ 202,581,409
Total # of Members Operating in the Black: 13

IMPORTANT NOTES:

The Methodology Subtracts Gross Expenses and Total Subsidies From Gross Revenue to Yield NET Profit.

The Numbers are for State Schools Only (No Privates Included in the Information)

Some Conferences Count Subsidies Differently

Total Number of Members in the Black is for State Schools Only

THESE NUMBERS CHANGE ON A YEARLY BASIS. OREGON WAS AT THE TOP THE LAST TIME THE DATA WAS RELEASED. NOW THEY ARE NOT. WHAT MATTERS IS TO BE THE POSITIVE END ON THE REGULAR. A SINGLE LARGE DONATION FOR ONE YEAR CAN MAKE THINGS APPEAR BETTER THAN THEY ACTUALLY ARE. AND EXPENSES WILL ALWAYS VARY DEPENDING ON CURRENT PROJECTS THAT ARE BEING FINANCED/PAID OFF.

NOT ALL UNIVERSITIES CALCULATION WITH THE SAME ACCOUNTING PRACTICES.

As JR notes, the information is incomplete as it lacks any input from private schools like ND, Stanford, Syracuse, Duke, etc...

(04-18-2016 01:54 PM)TerryD Wrote:  As JR notes, the information is incomplete as it lacks any input from private schools like ND, Stanford, Syracuse, Duke, etc...

For the ACC that's half the conference!

These numbers are sort of meaningless unless/until standardized accounting principles are applied. For instance, how are scholarships accounted. At some schools the athletic department pays the school the instate rate for all players and the in state/out of state tuition difference for out of state athletes is counted as an athletic department subsidy. This is far from universal though.

(04-18-2016 12:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  These figures are the compilation of per school revenue (state schools) as posted by USA Today for 2016 and as compiled by a poster on another site (Woomba). I thought they would be very advantageous to the board:


AAC
Gross Revenue: $358,790,508
Gross Expenses: $356,365,717
NET Revenue: $-157,609,922
Total # of Members Operating in the Black: 0
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ACC
Gross Revenue: $723,334,594
Gross Expenses: $702,026,754
Total Subsidy: $ 63,094,302
Net Revenue: $ -41,786,472
Total # of Members Operating in the Black: 1

PAC12
Gross Revenue: $812,552,080
Gross Expenses: $827,744,931
Total Subsidy: $ 72,241,043
Net Revenue: $ -87,433,894
Total # of Members Operating in the Black: 0

Big 12
Gross Revenue: $ 826,692,629
Gross Expenses: $ 787,934,609
Total Subsidy: $ 21,326,876
Net Revenue: $ 17,431,144
Total # of Members Operating in the Black: 3

Big 10
Gross Revenue: $1,410,479,573
Gross Expenses:$1,385,855,317
Total Subsidy: $ 61,171,491
Net Revenue: $ -36,547,235
Total # of Members Operating in the Black: 5

SEC
Gross Revenue: $1,592,721,374
Gross Expenses:$1,372,919,534
Total Subsidy: $ 17,220,431
Net Revenue: $ 202,581,409
Total # of Members Operating in the Black: 13

IMPORTANT NOTES:

The Methodology Subtracts Gross Expenses and Total Subsidies From Gross Revenue to Yield NET Profit.

The Numbers are for State Schools Only (No Privates Included in the Information)

Some Conferences Count Subsidies Differently

Total Number of Members in the Black is for State Schools Only

So tell me again how there is a single FBS "division"?

There is a clear demarcation and difference between the "new Division 1" (ACC, B10, B12, SEC, PAC12) and the "new FCS" (everyone else).

(04-18-2016 02:35 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  These numbers are sort of meaningless unless/until standardized accounting principles are applied. For instance, how are scholarships accounted. At some schools the athletic department pays the school the instate rate for all players and the in state/out of state tuition difference for out of state athletes is counted as an athletic department subsidy. This is far from universal though.

They are hardly meaningless. Precise, no, but $100 million gaps are pretty big.

(04-18-2016 02:17 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-18-2016 01:54 PM)TerryD Wrote:  As JR notes, the information is incomplete as it lacks any input from private schools like ND, Stanford, Syracuse, Duke, etc...

For the ACC that's half the conference!

Except for Duke, the bottom half of the conference financially.

(04-18-2016 04:01 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-18-2016 02:17 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-18-2016 01:54 PM)TerryD Wrote:  As JR notes, the information is incomplete as it lacks any input from private schools like ND, Stanford, Syracuse, Duke, etc...

For the ACC that's half the conference!

Except for Duke, the bottom half of the conference financially.

Syracuse AD actually has the 4th largest revenue in the ACC and was third until this year when Duke Passed them up by half a million.

FSU
Louisville
Duke
Syracuse
UNC
Clemson
VT

(04-18-2016 02:17 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-18-2016 01:54 PM)TerryD Wrote:  As JR notes, the information is incomplete as it lacks any input from private schools like ND, Stanford, Syracuse, Duke, etc...

For the ACC that's half the conference!

Actually that would be a little over 1/3rd of the conference. Miami, Wake Forest, Duke, Boston College, Syracuse. Notre Dame is harder to calculate since football revenue is not a part of it.

However there are various components to be considered here. Average Gross Revenue, Average Gross Expense, Average Subsidy, Average Net Profit.


For Instance among the P5:

ACC Average Gross Revenue (14 schools): 84.17 million
ACC Average Gross Expense: 81.06 million
ACC Average Profit per School: 3.12 million before subsidies.

PAC Average Gross Revenue (12 schools): 85.68 million
PAC Average Gross Expense: 86.94 million
PAC Average Profit per School: 1.27 million

Big12 Average Gross Revenue (10 schools): 101.34 million
Big12 Average Gross Expense: 97.46 million
Big12 Average Profit per School: 3.88 million

Big10 Average Gross Revenue (14 schools):105.75 million
Big10 Average Gross Expense: 103.99 million
Big10 Average Porfit per School: 1.76 million

SEC Average Gross Revenue (14 schools): 118.81 million
SEC Average Gross Expense: 102.97 million
SEC Average Profit per School: 15.85 million

Now by taking the Gross Revenue & Expense numbers and eliminating the subsidies which are too random to calculate to satisfaction here is what you get:

1. SEC 15.85 million per school
2. Big12 3.88 million per school
3. ACC 3.12 million per school
4. Big10 1.76 million per school
5. PAC12 1.27 million per school

Gross Revenue:

1. SEC 118.81 million per school
2. Big10 105.75 million per school
3. Big12 101.34 million per school
4. PAC12 86.94 million per school
5. ACC 84.17 million per school

Gross Expenditures:

1. Big10 103.99 million per school
2. SEC 102.97 million per school
3. Big12 97.46 million per school
4. PAC12 82.80 million per school
5. ACC 81.06 million per school

Why are these categories important? Because if you are last in Gross Revenue and last in Expenditures it will be very hard to compete with those who are the Top Earners and Spenders. The Gaps here are more significant than elsewhere. That's nothing new, but to look at the actual numbers should be somewhat sobering.

(04-18-2016 04:21 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-18-2016 02:17 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-18-2016 01:54 PM)TerryD Wrote:  As JR notes, the information is incomplete as it lacks any input from private schools like ND, Stanford, Syracuse, Duke, etc...

For the ACC that's half the conference!

Actually that would be a little over 1/3rd of the conference. Miami, Wake Forest, Duke, Boston College, Syracuse. Notre Dame is harder to calculate since football revenue is not a part of it.

Publics included: Pittsburgh, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Louisville, North Carolina, N.C. State, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State.

However there are various components to be considered here. Average Gross Revenue, Average Gross Expense, Average Subsidy, Average Net Profit.


For Instance among the P5:

ACC Average Gross Revenue (9 schools): 80.37 million
ACC Average Gross Expense: 78.00 million
ACC Average Profit per School: 2.37 million before subsidies.

PAC Average Gross Revenue (10 schools): 81.30 million
PAC Average Gross Expense: 82.80 million
PAC Average Profit per School: 1.50 million

Big12 Average Gross Revenue (8 schools): 103.33 million
Big12 Average Gross Expense: 98.49 million
Big12 Average Profit per School: 4.84 million

Big10 Average Gross Revenue (13 schools):108.50 million
Big10 Average Gross Expense: 106.60 million
Big10 Average Porfit per School: 1.90 million

SEC Average Gross Revenue (13 schools): 122.52 million
SEC Average Gross Expense: 105.61 million
SEC Average Profit per School: 17.21 million

Now by taking the Gross Revenue & Expense numbers and eliminating the subsidies which are too random to calculate to satisfaction here is what you get:

1. SEC 17.21 million per school
2. Big12 4.84 million per school
3. ACC 2.37 million per school
4. Big10 1.90 million per school
5. PAC12 1.50 million per school

Gross Revenue:

1. SEC 122.52 million per school
2. Big10 108.50 million per school
3. Big12 106.63 million per school
4. PAC12 81.30 million per school
5. ACC 80.37 million per school

Gross Expenditures:

1. Big10 106.60 million per school
2. SEC 105.61 million per school
3. Big12 98.49 million per school
4. PAC12 82.80 million per school
5. ACC 78.00 million per school

Why are these categories important? Because if you are last in Gross Revenue and last in Expenditures it will be very hard to compete with those who are the Top Earners and Spenders. The Gaps here are more significant than elsewhere. That's nothing new, but to look at the actual numbers should be somewhat sobering.

Actually Pitt is not included in the Publics http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

I guess the writer was too stupid or too lazy to consult the US Department of Educations' Equity in Athletics site http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/

For FY 14/15 Duke showed revenue of 91.6 million and expenses of 91.1 million

For FY 14/15 Syracuse showed revenue of 87.1 million and expenses of 67.3 million.

For FY 14/15 ND showed revenue of 121.2 million and expenses of 100 million.

Pitt and BC showed a balanced ledger at 70.5 million and 69.3 million each and Miami showed 77.7 in revenue and 76.4 in expenses, while Wake Forest had $58.6 million in revenue and 57.8 in expenses.

7 out of the 15 are private or considered private as is the case with Pitt and they averaged $82.2 million in revenue and $76 million in expenses.

JR you might want to recalculate dividing the ACC numbers by 8 instead of 9, I get an average, non subsidized revenue of $82.5 million for the publics, and an average spent of $87.5 million but as other have alluded to, what is a subsidy? Is it the way a particular school charges for student tickets for instance some schools don't have a charge to students for tickets, others make you buy one with cash, others are making you use a student fee pool. Also the way the accounting used to be done at UNC, most of that so-called subsidy is the Ed Foundations annual transfer in to fund all the athletic scholarships. That money is held by the University, not the Ram's Club, and it may be that the Cavilers do it the same way.

It's also odd that the NCAA figures would be used http://sports.usatoday.com/2016/04/14/me...-database/ along with the false claim that numbers are not required from private universities when that's a bald faced lie and are required under Title IX compliance and easily found at Equity in Athletics.

Legitimate journalism is a dying art form.

(04-18-2016 01:12 PM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  THESE NUMBERS CHANGE ON A YEARLY BASIS. OREGON WAS AT THE TOP THE LAST TIME THE DATA WAS RELEASED. NOW THEY ARE NOT. WHAT MATTERS IS TO BE THE POSITIVE END ON THE REGULAR. A SINGLE LARGE DONATION FOR ONE YEAR CAN MAKE THINGS APPEAR BETTER THAN THEY ACTUALLY ARE. AND EXPENSES WILL ALWAYS VARY DEPENDING ON CURRENT PROJECTS THAT ARE BEING FINANCED/PAID OFF.

NOT ALL UNIVERSITIES CALCULATION WITH THE SAME ACCOUNTING PRACTICES.

Can you please not use all caps in the future buddy? Some people are bound to take it the wrong way.

(04-18-2016 09:20 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  as other have alluded to, what is a subsidy?

Methodology for NCAA athletic department revenue database

Quote:Total Subsidy: The sum of student fees, direct and indirect institutional support and state money, minus certain funds transferred back to the school. The transfer amount cannot exceed the sum of student fees and direct institutional support that the department receives from the school. (Under NCAA reporting rules, any additional money transferred to the school cannot be considered part of the department’s annual operating revenues or expenses.)

The NCAA and others consider student fees, direct and indirect institutional support and state money “allocated,” or everything not generated by the department’s athletics functions.

(04-18-2016 09:20 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(04-18-2016 04:21 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-18-2016 02:17 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-18-2016 01:54 PM)TerryD Wrote:  As JR notes, the information is incomplete as it lacks any input from private schools like ND, Stanford, Syracuse, Duke, etc...

For the ACC that's half the conference!

Actually that would be a little over 1/3rd of the conference. Miami, Wake Forest, Duke, Boston College, Syracuse. Notre Dame is harder to calculate since football revenue is not a part of it.

Publics included: Pittsburgh, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Louisville, North Carolina, N.C. State, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State.

However there are various components to be considered here. Average Gross Revenue, Average Gross Expense, Average Subsidy, Average Net Profit.


For Instance among the P5:

ACC Average Gross Revenue (9 schools): 80.37 million
ACC Average Gross Expense: 78.00 million
ACC Average Profit per School: 2.37 million before subsidies.

PAC Average Gross Revenue (10 schools): 81.30 million
PAC Average Gross Expense: 82.80 million
PAC Average Profit per School: 1.50 million

Big12 Average Gross Revenue (8 schools): 103.33 million
Big12 Average Gross Expense: 98.49 million
Big12 Average Profit per School: 4.84 million

Big10 Average Gross Revenue (13 schools):108.50 million
Big10 Average Gross Expense: 106.60 million
Big10 Average Porfit per School: 1.90 million

SEC Average Gross Revenue (13 schools): 122.52 million
SEC Average Gross Expense: 105.61 million
SEC Average Profit per School: 17.21 million

Now by taking the Gross Revenue & Expense numbers and eliminating the subsidies which are too random to calculate to satisfaction here is what you get:

1. SEC 17.21 million per school
2. Big12 4.84 million per school
3. ACC 2.37 million per school
4. Big10 1.90 million per school
5. PAC12 1.50 million per school

Gross Revenue:

1. SEC 122.52 million per school
2. Big10 108.50 million per school
3. Big12 106.63 million per school
4. PAC12 81.30 million per school
5. ACC 80.37 million per school

Gross Expenditures:

1. Big10 106.60 million per school
2. SEC 105.61 million per school
3. Big12 98.49 million per school
4. PAC12 82.80 million per school
5. ACC 78.00 million per school

Why are these categories important? Because if you are last in Gross Revenue and last in Expenditures it will be very hard to compete with those who are the Top Earners and Spenders. The Gaps here are more significant than elsewhere. That's nothing new, but to look at the actual numbers should be somewhat sobering.

Actually Pitt is not included in the Publics http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

I guess the writer was too stupid or too lazy to consult the US Department of Educations' Equity in Athletics site http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/

For FY 14/15 Duke showed revenue of 91.6 million and expenses of 91.1 million

For FY 14/15 Syracuse showed revenue of 87.1 million and expenses of 67.3 million.

For FY 14/15 ND showed revenue of 121.2 million and expenses of 100 million.

Pitt and BC showed a balanced ledger at 70.5 million and 69.3 million each and Miami showed 77.7 in revenue and 76.4 in expenses, while Wake Forest had $58.6 million in revenue and 57.8 in expenses.

7 out of the 15 are private or considered private as is the case with Pitt and they averaged $82.2 million in revenue and $76 million in expenses.

JR you might want to recalculate dividing the ACC numbers by 8 instead of 9, I get an average, non subsidized revenue of $82.5 million for the publics, and an average spent of $87.5 million but as other have alluded to, what is a subsidy? Is it the way a particular school charges for student tickets for instance some schools don't have a charge to students for tickets, others make you buy one with cash, others are making you use a student fee pool. Also the way the accounting used to be done at UNC, most of that so-called subsidy is the Ed Foundations annual transfer in to fund all the athletic scholarships. That money is held by the University, not the Ram's Club, and it may be that the Cavilers do it the same way.

It's also odd that the NCAA figures would be used http://sports.usatoday.com/2016/04/14/me...-database/ along with the false claim that numbers are not required from private universities when that's a bald faced lie and are required under Title IX compliance and easily found at Equity in Athletics.

Legitimate journalism is a dying art form.

I hope to have some time either tomorrow or the day after to complete the number for all conference members and then recalculate. I'm not that concerned with subsidies. I use gross profits minus gross expenses to arrive at the figures. Vanderbilt showed roughly 2 million in profit with gross revenues of 70,661,736 and expenses of 68,615,451. Northwestern 70,028,074 over the same.

(04-18-2016 12:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  These figures are the compilation of per school revenue (state schools) as posted by USA Today for 2016 and as compiled by a poster on another site (Woomba). I thought they would be very advantageous to the board:

Incorrect. That recent data is for the 2014-15 school year.

(04-18-2016 11:06 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(04-18-2016 12:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  These figures are the compilation of per school revenue (state schools) as posted by USA Today for 2016 and as compiled by a poster on another site (Woomba). I thought they would be very advantageous to the board:

Incorrect. That recent data is for the 2014-15 school year.

They come out every calendar year and are for the preceding fiscal year. The same is true of attendance figures. The report date listed is 2016 but it is for the fiscal year ending 2015.

And by the way, it doesn't change the data reported. It is what it is.

ACC Privates:
B.C. Revenue: $69,300,736 Expenses: $69,300,736 Profit: $ 0
Duke Revenue: $91,688,202 Expenses: $91,174,723 Profit: $ 513,479
Miami Revenue: $77,724,833 Expenses: $76,495,820 Profit: $ 1,229,013
Pittsburgh Revenue:$70,527,488 Expenses: $70,527,488 Profit: $ 0
Syracuse Revenue: $87,175,761 Expenses: $67,391,194 Profit: $19,784,567
Wake Forest Rev.: $58,672,116 Expenses: $57,865,117 Profit: $ 806,999
Total Revenue: $455,089,136 Expenses: $432,755,078 Profit: $ 22,344,058

*Notre Dame Revenue: $121,260,381 Expenses: 100,035,451 Profit: $21,224,923

Big12 Privates:
Baylor Revenue: $106,078,643 Expenses: $106,078,643 Profit: $ 0
T.C.U. Revenue: $ 80,608,562 Expenses: $ 80,608,562 Profit: $ 0
Total Revenue: $186,687,205 Expenses: $186,687,205 Profit: $ 0

PAC Privates:
U.S.C. Revenue: $105,919,366 Expenses: $105,919,366 Profit: $ 0
Stanford Revenue: $109,670,730 Expenses: $109,668,805 Profit: $ 1,925
Total Revenue: $215,590,096 Expenses: $215,588,171 Profit $ 1,925

Big10 Privates:
Northwestern $ 70,028,074 Expenses: $ 70,028,074 Profit: $ 0

SEC Privates:
Vanderbilt Revenue:$ 70,661,736 Expenses: $ 68,615,451 Profit: $ 2,046,285

(04-18-2016 04:21 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-18-2016 02:17 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-18-2016 01:54 PM)TerryD Wrote:  As JR notes, the information is incomplete as it lacks any input from private schools like ND, Stanford, Syracuse, Duke, etc...

For the ACC that's half the conference!

Actually that would be a little over 1/3rd of the conference. Miami, Wake Forest, Duke, Boston College, Syracuse. Notre Dame is harder to calculate since football revenue is not a part of it.

However there are various components to be considered here. Average Gross Revenue, Average Gross Expense, Average Subsidy, Average Net Profit.


For Instance among the P5:

ACC Average Gross Revenue (14 schools): 84.17 million
ACC Average Gross Expense: 81.06 million
ACC Average Profit per School: 3.12 million before subsidies.

PAC Average Gross Revenue (12 schools): 85.68 million
PAC Average Gross Expense: 86.94 million
PAC Average Profit per School: 1.27 million

Big12 Average Gross Revenue (10 schools): 101.34 million
Big12 Average Gross Expense: 97.46 million
Big12 Average Profit per School: 3.88 million

Big10 Average Gross Revenue (14 schools):105.75 million
Big10 Average Gross Expense: 103.99 million
Big10 Average Porfit per School: 1.76 million

SEC Average Gross Revenue (14 schools): 118.81 million
SEC Average Gross Expense: 102.97 million
SEC Average Profit per School: 15.85 million

Now by taking the Gross Revenue & Expense numbers and eliminating the subsidies which are too random to calculate to satisfaction here is what you get:

1. SEC 15.85 million per school
2. Big12 3.88 million per school
3. ACC 3.12 million per school
4. Big10 1.76 million per school
5. PAC12 1.27 million per school

Gross Revenue:

1. SEC 118.81 million per school
2. Big10 105.75 million per school
3. Big12 101.34 million per school
4. PAC12 86.94 million per school
5. ACC 84.17 million per school

Gross Expenditures:

1. Big10 103.99 million per school
2. SEC 102.97 million per school
3. Big12 97.46 million per school
4. PAC12 82.80 million per school
5. ACC 81.06 million per school

Why are these categories important? Because if you are last in Gross Revenue and last in Expenditures it will be very hard to compete with those who are the Top Earners and Spenders. The Gaps here are more significant than elsewhere. That's nothing new, but to look at the actual numbers should be somewhat sobering.

Note: The Above Figures have been recalculated to account for each conference's Private Schools.

Is Pittsburgh really a public?

(04-19-2016 05:44 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Is Pittsburgh really a public?

Pitt (and Temple) were originally fully private schools that are now some sort of state-private hybrid (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonweal..._Education ).

Quote:Universities of the Commonwealth System are considered public universities by the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching because they offer reduced tuition for citizens of the Commonwealth and therefore are often referred to as "public" universities in publications, by the state, and the schools themselves. Because their annual state allocations that supplement less than 10% of their budgets, universities in the Commonwealth System tend to have higher tuition costs compared to the Pennsylvania State System of Higher Education which contains 14 state-owned and operated universities. Because of their independence, universities in the Commonwealth System are exempt from Pennsylvania's Open Records law except for a few minor provisions.