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The Future of TU Facilties? A rabidTU2 Suggestion.
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rabidTU2 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: The Future of TU Facilties? A rabidTU2 Suggestion.
You can click the individual facility picture for more details.

http://www.tulsahurricane.com/sports/201...ities.aspx
(This post was last modified: 04-22-2016 10:37 AM by rabidTU2.)
04-22-2016 10:30 AM
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rabidTU2 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: The Future of TU Facilties? A rabidTU2 Suggestion.
I view TU's athletic facilities on campus as not only important to TU but to the Tulsa area and the entire region of eastern Oklahoma. They are valuable resources that a lot of similar sized cities can't use because they simply don't exist in those communities. Its obvious that the better those facilities are, the better community we have. And the fact they are on campus and utilized quite often is even better because it allows them to be well maintained and upgraded when the need arises. What would a Jenks/Union football game for instance, be like without Chapman Stadium? Just another HS game. No, Chapman Stadium in this city makes those games worth watching and attending imo.

Now there are some communities that have city owned venues that were built and maintained by that city yet fallen on hard times. Birmingham, Alabama was the classic example of that. Legion Field was a city owned and maintained facility that was built as a second home for Alabama Crimson Tide football that allowed the SEC to play somewhat neutral games in Alabama's largest city and it worked well for many years. It also allowed Birmingham to schedule Bowl games and other events and eventually became home for UAB football. It allowed UAB to have an affordable, rentable venue used as a home field although not directly on the campus, thus saving tens of millions of dollars in the UAB athletic budget. But of course we know what happned there and I won't go into that at this time. And some cities have basically done the same thing like Little Rock and War Memorial Stadium, a 50,000 seat stadium where the Razorbacks commit to playing games every year and that seems to work well for them.

On the downside is that it sometimes doesn't work because of the politics or economy downturns that jeopardize the tax base/structure and that naturally happen. (One of the first things that always gets trimmed is a stadium with no pro team). And of course maintenance can become an ongoing problem as the venue ages. It just seems that a city govt is not always a good owner of many of these large stadium venues unless a pro team plays there. Memphis is a probable exception to this, but with the long term alliance there with the Liberty Bowl, that helps a bunch. No pro team, but a guaranteed Bowl game.

I recommend TU use only TU owned and TU maintained facilites now and in the future with the possible exception if TU were to ever restart baseball (I recommend that TU should play at OneOk), something that I posted about a year ago, but restarting baseball is at best a long shot in the forseeable future.

But again, I think it is feasable and appropriate for the city to use TU facilites where possible because it helps both make money and sustain their programs.

More Later.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nextr Up!
** How to intelligently and economically enhance and expand Chapman Stadium and make more revenue for TU in the future.**
(This post was last modified: 04-24-2016 01:55 PM by rabidTU2.)
04-24-2016 10:26 AM
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rabidTU2 Offline
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Post: #13
RE: The Future of TU Facilties? A rabidTU2 Suggestion.
A Look At The On-Campus Stadiums In The AAC

Presently the members of the AAC that have on-campus/university owned football stadiums are:
Cincinnati
Houston
UCF
ECU
Navy
Tulane
SMU
Tulsa

Schools who play football in Stadiums off their main campus
UCONN
Temple*
USF
Memphis

*Temple is finalizing plans to build an on-campus football stadium at present time, but probably will still play in a Pro venue at least for next year. UCONN does not play in a pro stadium, but plays off their main campus about 30 miles away (as I understand it). Playing off the main campus usually puts a hardship burden on students attending a sports event since they cannot easily walk to the event if they live on campus. So normally that cuts down on student attendance and participation.

Terms that may be used when discussing stadiums:
1. Understructure - The part of a stadium or venue that physically supports it but is not a contest viewable area of it. Understructures' only purpose is to hold up that part of the stadium where people sit and watch the contest.
2. Empties - The number of unused seats in a stadium on the day of an event.
3. Premium Seating - This can be boxes, suites or any type of indoor seating that is seperate from the normal outside stands in the given venue.
4. Capacity - this will include both the number of outdoor and indoor seats as a total number (in Chapman).

More Later.
(This post was last modified: 04-25-2016 09:37 AM by rabidTU2.)
04-25-2016 09:34 AM
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rabidTU2 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: The Future of TU Facilties? A rabidTU2 Suggestion.
One of the smart moves TU made when the Don was built was to build it with as little above ground understructure as possible. By that I mean most of the seating bowl is built below ground level and doesn't require a typical understructure or maintenance on that understructure. Chapman stadium was partially renovated with that in mind back in the 1960's when a track was eliminated and seats added below the original seats that had been constructed in 1930. If my memory is correct, the seats added in 1965 on the east and west side amounted to about 3500. Also as the entire field was lowered the dirt from that wasn't hauled away, but mounded on the south end that supports the south stands we have today along 11th street. As it turned out, that was very wise indeed and opens up a lot of cost effective possibilities in the future I will address.

**IMO many of our competitiors in the region we compete in would be better served if they didn't build their stadiums so high off the ground because that strategy requires a huge understructure sometimes reaching 6 stories or more off the ground surface. That makes the stadium more costly initially and harder to maintain as time goes by. If you'll look at Chapman Stadium the outside stadium distance from ground level to the top row of seats amounts to a 2 1/2 story building. That means that any added structure of seating wouldn't require a massive amount of understructure to support that structure thus eliminating a large cost. Again, understructure is expensive and unneeded except as a support. So any additions to CS would be less costly, somewhat safer and more easily constructed in a shorter amount of time than stadiums built "higher" with a more elaborate understructure.
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2016 12:46 PM by rabidTU2.)
04-26-2016 11:02 AM
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rabidTU2 Offline
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Post: #15
RE: The Future of TU Facilties? A rabidTU2 Suggestion.
Here are a couple of examples of similar sized stadiums from schools we are familiar with that seem to be good models of the kind of seating we could incorporate into Chapman Stadium. What i like the most is that both stadiums have suites as well as premium "rowed" seats.

http://www.southernmiss.com/facilities/r...adium.html

Take a good look at the endzone building facility and it mirrors what we could economically build on the south end and of course there wouldn't need to be an expensive understructure since TU could just build it on top of the existing hill - no understructure required.


http://www.smumustangs.com/mustangclub/p...ating.html

The above example is good for any future east side addition because it includes several rows of premium seats whcih again bring large amounts of revenue to the program. Again, since we don't have a multi-story understructure to deal with, the cost isn't prohibitive.

These two examples are from programs we have competed with over the years. What I think we should push for in the future is more premium seating and suites over outdoor seating. Its all about the revenue, not the visible empties. Proper scheduling will fill the outdoor empties.
(This post was last modified: 04-27-2016 10:30 AM by rabidTU2.)
04-27-2016 10:25 AM
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JHG722 Offline
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Post: #16
RE: The Future of TU Facilties? A rabidTU2 Suggestion.
Our on campus stadium is likely to open for the 2018 or 2019 season. Our practice facilities are on campus.
04-28-2016 09:12 PM
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rabidTU2 Offline
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Post: #17
RE: The Future of TU Facilties? A rabidTU2 Suggestion.
Thanks JHG722. When you get all the details on it, could you give us an update or updates as the process continues. And congratualtions on it. You'll love having an on campus venue and it will be great for the FB program.
04-29-2016 10:14 AM
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rabidTU2 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: The Future of TU Facilties? A rabidTU2 Suggestion.
I have a simple metric on stadium size that can be used to determine how much seating a stadium needs. Its a general numeric and simply understood cap I use that gauges ideal on-campus stadium capacity and whether a stadium meets the needs of the students, campus community and citizens in the community. To keep it simple it is ----- undergrad enrollment/minus stadium capacity/equals potential revenue. Potential revenue is what should be used to determine the size of the stadium in the first place and whether the future revenue can be had from it.

Let me begin by giving a couple of examples of this metric using a few schools we are somewhat familiar with. Source is Phill Steeles CFB Magazine.

School--------------------------Enrollment(undergrad)------------------Stadium Cap---------------Difference

Kansas St--------------------------20,169-----------------------------------50,000--------------------29,831 (empties)

Kansas-----------------------------19,217-----------------------------------50,071--------------------30,854

UCF--------------------------------51,333------------------------------------45,323--------(negative--6,010

Cincinnati -------------------------23,706------------------------------------40,000--------------------16,294

Tulsa -------------------------------3,428-------------------------------------30,000--------------------26,574



So as we can see there is quite a bit of variance in the figures and its obvious that enrollment plays a part in the size of the venue. However, if you look at that in real terms, students do not provide the amount of revenue the typical non-student paying customer does and that means a great deal to the viability of the programs. Some folks assume TU with its very small enrollment would never be able to keep up and there is merit to that POV, but in reality TU has never been dependent on the students for its funding. But neither do those other schools listed above. Revenue is normally derived from paying customers who visit campus on game day. So given that, it becomes imperative that those "visitors" need to be coddled so to speak and given every convenience to visit again and again. That includes good parking, comfort and a great experience on game day.

Back on point. So how big are we talking about here? Well, looking at some of the examples I listed, its obvious we don't really need a 50,000 seat venue, but we should have enough non-student capacity that provides the programs the revenue to sustain them.

So I think the cap number we now have is close to what we need, but not necessarily the convenience and comfort. So my strategy is to add comfort/convenience to the stadium with as much seating as possible that enhances the experience and makes the most revenue. We also need a stadium that allows us to occasionally schedule a game with an opponent that may be slightly above our pay grade. A game we wouldn't have to disadvantage our fans with a huge bump in ticket price. That is where I think having those premium seats, suites and boxes make up the difference. It allows us to go to a Tulsa area business and sell them tickets they won't necessarily use every home game, but as a way of donating to TU and guaranteeing a seat for the OU, OSU, Texas A@M or Baylor game. That is the strategy and the plan.

Building boxes and premium seating is initially expensive, but again won't be cost prohibitive because of the smaller understructure required - money that a lot of other schools just throw away as a necessary evil. And if TU just wanted to go economical and build a south endzone facility like USM, it wouldn't be too expensive by building it "on the hill" along 11th street and "ole histroric route 66".

More Later.







Source - Phil Steeles CFB Magazine (2015)
(This post was last modified: 04-29-2016 11:20 AM by rabidTU2.)
04-29-2016 11:13 AM
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JHG722 Offline
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Post: #19
RE: The Future of TU Facilties? A rabidTU2 Suggestion.
(04-29-2016 10:14 AM)rabidTU2 Wrote:  Thanks JHG722. When you get all the details on it, could you give us an update or updates as the process continues. And congratualtions on it. You'll love having an on campus venue and it will be great for the FB program.

Sure
04-29-2016 12:57 PM
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rabidTU2 Offline
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Post: #20
RE: The Future of TU Facilties? A rabidTU2 Suggestion.
So how big? How big should we make and increase the stadium in the future with those suites and premium seating?

Well, according to what I understand, TU is trying to increase undergrad enrollment and the goal is to double it to about the 6,000 level which would put the total enrollment to around 7,000-7,500. That would about equal the figures we had back in the late 60's - early 70's when TU wasn't as much a residential campus as it is today. And using the goal of "only" premium seating, that would mean we would need about that number added to the capacity. Of course those seats would be offered to the business community first and then the general public since businesses tend to buy the seats and write some of it off as a custiomer business expense. So we'd need around 3,000 or so additional premium suites, boxes or indoor seating, bringing the total cap to around 33,000.

Now about renting those to the businesses. Well we have a very unique position now in the AAC. Just look at the cities we share the conference with? And just on our side of the league - the AAC west! Dallas, Houston, Memphis, NOLA. and then there is that national university in Maryland. Folks, if you are a businessman wanting to expand or someone in the energy business, communications, transportation etc, there is not a better conference to be in than the AAC. And then you have the vast resources of the eastern side of the league that stretches from Florida to the northeastern megalopolis cities of the Atlantic. That is the selling point. If you owned a business here and wanted to expand to Memphis, Texas, Florida, and/or those huge northeastern cities, wouldn't it be worth your while to invest a little to host the bigwig from Philadelphia or NYC to watch a game and wine and dine them in your TU suite?

At some point in the very near future, TU should strike while the iron is hot and look seriously at our facilties and make a list of goals that would increase revenue, help the community grow even more, take advantage of the visibility we now have and our status in this wonderful new league.
(This post was last modified: 05-03-2016 05:49 PM by rabidTU2.)
05-03-2016 10:35 AM
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