Geoff seems to think so ... and I tend to agree. I like the Tubby hire, but, at some point, if we don't want this to be "the Memphis job" (Tubby), we have to figure out a way to be more "ambitious", as Geoff puts it. Both of these guys were seemingly "interested", "intrigued", etc, but ultimately we weren't able or willing to close the deal on either.

From Calkins this morning ... the CA:
"To be sure, the guy is not Gregg Marshall or Buzz Williams. He’s not a guy who instantly restores all the momentum that has been lost the last couple years. He won’t cause a stampede on the ticket office. But as I wrote early in the search, I didn’t think the university had the ambition or the money to go get one of those guys. Memphis reached out to Williams, but it never went anywhere. Among other things, his contract buyout provisions would have been more onerous than Pastner’s. Memphis simply wasn’t doing that. Was that short-sighted? I think so. But that was never how this was going to play out."

(04-14-2016 09:46 AM)80sTiger Wrote:  Geoff seems to think so ... and I tend to agree. I like the Tubby hire, but, at some point, if we don't want this to be "the Memphis job" (Tubby), we have to figure out a way to be more "ambitious", as Geoff puts it. Both of these guys were seemingly "interested", "intrigued", etc, but ultimately we weren't able or willing to close the deal on either.

From Calkins this morning ... the CA:
"To be sure, the guy is not Gregg Marshall or Buzz Williams. He’s not a guy who instantly restores all the momentum that has been lost the last couple years. He won’t cause a stampede on the ticket office. But as I wrote early in the search, I didn’t think the university had the ambition or the money to go get one of those guys. Memphis reached out to Williams, but it never went anywhere. Among other things, his contract buyout provisions would have been more onerous than Pastner’s. Memphis simply wasn’t doing that. Was that short-sighted? I think so. But that was never how this was going to play out."

So while we are looking for a new coach Bowen is out negotiating a home and home with UAB that is announced right in the middle of the search. Does that sound like a guy that is willing to cede control of scheduling and basketball operations to a coach?

I have nothing personally against Tubby. In fact, I think he will probably do pretty well here. However, the message that was sent with this hire is that we are no longer willing to swing for the fences for the basketball program for whatever reasons. This is concerning to me.

I just think we need P5 money to go that route, even in BB. I hope we get that chance. Until then we are working within the new economic reality of college sports.

(04-14-2016 09:46 AM)80sTiger Wrote:  Geoff seems to think so ... and I tend to agree. I like the Tubby hire, but, at some point, if we don't want this to be "the Memphis job" (Tubby), we have to figure out a way to be more "ambitious", as Geoff puts it. Both of these guys were seemingly "interested", "intrigued", etc, but ultimately we weren't able or willing to close the deal on either.

From Calkins this morning ... the CA:
"To be sure, the guy is not Gregg Marshall or Buzz Williams. He’s not a guy who instantly restores all the momentum that has been lost the last couple years. He won’t cause a stampede on the ticket office. But as I wrote early in the search, I didn’t think the university had the ambition or the money to go get one of those guys. Memphis reached out to Williams, but it never went anywhere. Among other things, his contract buyout provisions would have been more onerous than Pastner’s. Memphis simply wasn’t doing that. Was that short-sighted? I think so. But that was never how this was going to play out."

Rudd stated weeks ago when getting hammered on the Pastner contract he WOULD NOT enter into another agreement like Josh's. It had nothing to do with the annual pay but everything to do with the buyout. Once he went on record and said they would not do the FULL buyout again, then we were immediately out of the running for Marshall and Williams.

(04-14-2016 09:50 AM)mairving Wrote:  

(04-14-2016 09:46 AM)80sTiger Wrote:  Geoff seems to think so ... and I tend to agree. I like the Tubby hire, but, at some point, if we don't want this to be "the Memphis job" (Tubby), we have to figure out a way to be more "ambitious", as Geoff puts it. Both of these guys were seemingly "interested", "intrigued", etc, but ultimately we weren't able or willing to close the deal on either.

From Calkins this morning ... the CA:
"To be sure, the guy is not Gregg Marshall or Buzz Williams. He’s not a guy who instantly restores all the momentum that has been lost the last couple years. He won’t cause a stampede on the ticket office. But as I wrote early in the search, I didn’t think the university had the ambition or the money to go get one of those guys. Memphis reached out to Williams, but it never went anywhere. Among other things, his contract buyout provisions would have been more onerous than Pastner’s. Memphis simply wasn’t doing that. Was that short-sighted? I think so. But that was never how this was going to play out."

So while we are looking for a new coach Bowen is out negotiating a home and home with UAB that is announced right in the middle of the search. Does that sound like a guy that is willing to cede control of scheduling and basketball operations to a coach?

That deal was probably done months ago.

(04-14-2016 09:46 AM)80sTiger Wrote:  Geoff seems to think so ... and I tend to agree. I like the Tubby hire, but, at some point, if we don't want this to be "the Memphis job" (Tubby), we have to figure out a way to be more "ambitious", as Geoff puts it. Both of these guys were seemingly "interested", "intrigued", etc, but ultimately we weren't able or willing to close the deal on either.

From Calkins this morning ... the CA:
"To be sure, the guy is not Gregg Marshall or Buzz Williams. He’s not a guy who instantly restores all the momentum that has been lost the last couple years. He won’t cause a stampede on the ticket office. But as I wrote early in the search, I didn’t think the university had the ambition or the money to go get one of those guys. Memphis reached out to Williams, but it never went anywhere. Among other things, his contract buyout provisions would have been more onerous than Pastner’s. Memphis simply wasn’t doing that. Was that short-sighted? I think so. But that was never how this was going to play out."

Geoff is not in the know nor understands the big picture, not his fault he simply is not aware of all of the bigger things that are going on. He is simply speaking from what he knows.

What we were not going to do is enter into any agreement like Pastners, which in no way does not mean we don't have the money. We have plenty of money, lots of it but it doesn't mean we repeat being "stupid" again and doing a Pastner deal.

If you repeat "stupid" over then you become "stupid"

(04-14-2016 09:52 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(04-14-2016 09:46 AM)80sTiger Wrote:  Geoff seems to think so ... and I tend to agree. I like the Tubby hire, but, at some point, if we don't want this to be "the Memphis job" (Tubby), we have to figure out a way to be more "ambitious", as Geoff puts it. Both of these guys were seemingly "interested", "intrigued", etc, but ultimately we weren't able or willing to close the deal on either.

From Calkins this morning ... the CA:
"To be sure, the guy is not Gregg Marshall or Buzz Williams. He’s not a guy who instantly restores all the momentum that has been lost the last couple years. He won’t cause a stampede on the ticket office. But as I wrote early in the search, I didn’t think the university had the ambition or the money to go get one of those guys. Memphis reached out to Williams, but it never went anywhere. Among other things, his contract buyout provisions would have been more onerous than Pastner’s. Memphis simply wasn’t doing that. Was that short-sighted? I think so. But that was never how this was going to play out."

Rudd stated weeks ago when getting hammered on the Pastner contract he WOULD NOT enter into another agreement like Josh's. It had nothing to do with the annual pay but everything to do with the buyout. Once he went on record and said they would not do the FULL buyout again, then we were immediately out of the running for Marshall and Williams.

Yep, but this is flawed logic in my mind. There is a huge difference between giving that type of contract to JP vs. a guy like Marshall or Buzz. If that is the approach we continue to take going forward, then we will likely never again hire a guy of that caliber.

(04-14-2016 09:50 AM)RekeHavoc Wrote:  I have nothing personally against Tubby. In fact, I think he will probably do pretty well here. However, the message that was sent with this hire is that we are no longer willing to swing for the fences for the basketball program for whatever reasons. This is concerning to me.

When has Memphis ever 'swung for the fences'? Cal was damaged goods when he was hired. We have never been able to 'go get the guy' from someone else. We are not that level. Less than 10 schools that can do that even if the stars are aligned perfectly.

I'm not actually saying we didn't try - we can't make these guys come - but when you go this big, it has to be an all-in strategy and plan with everyone on-board. Geoff calls it ambition, and I think that's exactly right ... "a strong desire to do or to achieve something, typically requiring determination and hard work". This is a different approach than say, for instance, the safe option that turns out to be "a good deal". While pleased with Tubby overall, it's what everyone expected as "the Memphis job".

(04-14-2016 09:56 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  

(04-14-2016 09:50 AM)RekeHavoc Wrote:  I have nothing personally against Tubby. In fact, I think he will probably do pretty well here. However, the message that was sent with this hire is that we are no longer willing to swing for the fences for the basketball program for whatever reasons. This is concerning to me.

When has Memphis ever 'swung for the fences'? Cal was damaged goods when he was hired. We have never been able to 'go get the guy' from someone else. We are not that level. Less than 10 schools that could do that even if the stars are aligned perfectly.

I believe we had a chance with Marshall and/or Buzz, but weren't willing to do what it takes. Making a serious run at those guys would be swinging for the fences.

(04-14-2016 09:57 AM)80sTiger Wrote:  I'm not actually saying we didn't try - we can't make these guys come - but when you go this big, it has to be an all-in strategy and plan with everyone on-board. Geoff calls it ambition, and I think that's exactly right ... "a strong desire to do or to achieve something, typically requiring determination and hard work". This is a different approach than say, for instance, the safe option that turns out to be "a good deal". While pleased with Tubby overall, it's what everyone expected as "the Memphis job".

Again, you have to think much bigger than you are thinking. Ten years ago hiring the Memphis coach was the #1 item, today it's literally below #5 on the list.

Think going to Big12, think facilities and think of what has to be invested in and paid for. Think after the announcement in the B12 by June, think down the road in a very short three or so years, after playing in the B12 for one year and then making the next hire. This job will be a Top 10 job because its in the B12.

You have to think bigger than you are thinking, its all I can say.

(04-14-2016 10:01 AM)PickwickTiger Wrote:  

(04-14-2016 09:57 AM)80sTiger Wrote:  I'm not actually saying we didn't try - we can't make these guys come - but when you go this big, it has to be an all-in strategy and plan with everyone on-board. Geoff calls it ambition, and I think that's exactly right ... "a strong desire to do or to achieve something, typically requiring determination and hard work". This is a different approach than say, for instance, the safe option that turns out to be "a good deal". While pleased with Tubby overall, it's what everyone expected as "the Memphis job".

Again, you have to think much bigger than you are thinking. Ten years ago hiring the Memphis coach was the #1 item, today it's literally below #5 on the list.

Think going to Big12, think facilities and think of what has to be invested in and paid for. Think after the announcement in the B12 by June, think down the road in a very short three or so years, after playing in the B12 for one year and then making the next hire. This job will be a Top 10 job because its in the B12.

You have to think bigger than you are thinking, its all I can say.

Yes, I agree with you. And if this is all timing, then that's great news. But we had the chance here and now, and, for here and now, this is the message. We'll see about 5 years from now or whenever the next change comes along. I'm still dealing with the very true, ever emerging fact that Tiger basketball will never be the same. And that's not hyperbole, that's the reality of P5 football, money and the evolution of college sports unfortunately. It isn't a priority now. That's the reality.

... and from that point of view, we should be absolutely THRILLED with Tubby.

(04-14-2016 10:01 AM)PickwickTiger Wrote:  

(04-14-2016 09:57 AM)80sTiger Wrote:  I'm not actually saying we didn't try - we can't make these guys come - but when you go this big, it has to be an all-in strategy and plan with everyone on-board. Geoff calls it ambition, and I think that's exactly right ... "a strong desire to do or to achieve something, typically requiring determination and hard work". This is a different approach than say, for instance, the safe option that turns out to be "a good deal". While pleased with Tubby overall, it's what everyone expected as "the Memphis job".

Again, you have to think much bigger than you are thinking. Ten years ago hiring the Memphis coach was the #1 item, today it's literally below #5 on the list.

Think going to Big12, think facilities and think of what has to be invested in and paid for. Think after the announcement in the B12 by June, think down the road in a very short three or so years, after playing in the B12 for one year and then making the next hire. This job will be a Top 10 job because its in the B12.

You have to think bigger than you are thinking, its all I can say.

Unless you don't get in the B12.

(04-14-2016 09:55 AM)PickwickTiger Wrote:  

(04-14-2016 09:46 AM)80sTiger Wrote:  Geoff seems to think so ... and I tend to agree. I like the Tubby hire, but, at some point, if we don't want this to be "the Memphis job" (Tubby), we have to figure out a way to be more "ambitious", as Geoff puts it. Both of these guys were seemingly "interested", "intrigued", etc, but ultimately we weren't able or willing to close the deal on either.

From Calkins this morning ... the CA:
"To be sure, the guy is not Gregg Marshall or Buzz Williams. He’s not a guy who instantly restores all the momentum that has been lost the last couple years. He won’t cause a stampede on the ticket office. But as I wrote early in the search, I didn’t think the university had the ambition or the money to go get one of those guys. Memphis reached out to Williams, but it never went anywhere. Among other things, his contract buyout provisions would have been more onerous than Pastner’s. Memphis simply wasn’t doing that. Was that short-sighted? I think so. But that was never how this was going to play out."

Geoff is not in the know nor understands the big picture, not his fault he simply is not aware of all of the bigger things that are going on. He is simply speaking from what he knows.

What we were not going to do is enter into any agreement like Pastners, which in no way does not mean we don't have the money. We have plenty of money, lots of it but it doesn't mean we repeat being "stupid" again and doing a Pastner deal.

If you repeat "stupid" over then you become "stupid"

^THIS^

So we didn't swing for the fences, but the school is going to pay Tubby 3M per year. Maybe swinging for the fences seemed irresponsible to the administration and boosters.

I will never count other people's money so if the higher ups didn't want to cash out the investment Marshall or Buzz would have been then so be it.

(04-14-2016 10:01 AM)PickwickTiger Wrote:  

(04-14-2016 09:57 AM)80sTiger Wrote:  I'm not actually saying we didn't try - we can't make these guys come - but when you go this big, it has to be an all-in strategy and plan with everyone on-board. Geoff calls it ambition, and I think that's exactly right ... "a strong desire to do or to achieve something, typically requiring determination and hard work". This is a different approach than say, for instance, the safe option that turns out to be "a good deal". While pleased with Tubby overall, it's what everyone expected as "the Memphis job".

Again, you have to think much bigger than you are thinking. Ten years ago hiring the Memphis coach was the #1 item, today it's literally below #5 on the list.

Think going to Big12, think facilities and think of what has to be invested in and paid for. Think after the announcement in the B12 by June, think down the road in a very short three or so years, after playing in the B12 for one year and then making the next hire. This job will be a Top 10 job because its in the B12.

You have to think bigger than you are thinking, its all I can say.

^AND THIS^

(04-14-2016 10:11 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(04-14-2016 10:01 AM)PickwickTiger Wrote:  

(04-14-2016 09:57 AM)80sTiger Wrote:  I'm not actually saying we didn't try - we can't make these guys come - but when you go this big, it has to be an all-in strategy and plan with everyone on-board. Geoff calls it ambition, and I think that's exactly right ... "a strong desire to do or to achieve something, typically requiring determination and hard work". This is a different approach than say, for instance, the safe option that turns out to be "a good deal". While pleased with Tubby overall, it's what everyone expected as "the Memphis job".

Again, you have to think much bigger than you are thinking. Ten years ago hiring the Memphis coach was the #1 item, today it's literally below #5 on the list.

Think going to Big12, think facilities and think of what has to be invested in and paid for. Think after the announcement in the B12 by June, think down the road in a very short three or so years, after playing in the B12 for one year and then making the next hire. This job will be a Top 10 job because its in the B12.

You have to think bigger than you are thinking, its all I can say.

Unless you don't get in the B12.

Dude, you will be shocked by the end of June. It's been well known within close circles about the B12 but now slowly coming out.

Now factory in the B12 and all of this makes sense.

Hire a coach that is respectable, knows the teams and coaches from the b12 to get you to that place after what Pastner has done then hire your big hire after that.

sounds like a plan, maybe like someone or somebody was thinking like they have a bigger picture strategy and this all fits in huh...think on it a bit

(04-14-2016 10:13 AM)PickwickTiger Wrote:  

(04-14-2016 10:11 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(04-14-2016 10:01 AM)PickwickTiger Wrote:  

(04-14-2016 09:57 AM)80sTiger Wrote:  I'm not actually saying we didn't try - we can't make these guys come - but when you go this big, it has to be an all-in strategy and plan with everyone on-board. Geoff calls it ambition, and I think that's exactly right ... "a strong desire to do or to achieve something, typically requiring determination and hard work". This is a different approach than say, for instance, the safe option that turns out to be "a good deal". While pleased with Tubby overall, it's what everyone expected as "the Memphis job".

Again, you have to think much bigger than you are thinking. Ten years ago hiring the Memphis coach was the #1 item, today it's literally below #5 on the list.

Think going to Big12, think facilities and think of what has to be invested in and paid for. Think after the announcement in the B12 by June, think down the road in a very short three or so years, after playing in the B12 for one year and then making the next hire. This job will be a Top 10 job because its in the B12.

You have to think bigger than you are thinking, its all I can say.

Unless you don't get in the B12.

Dude, you will be shocked by the end of June. It's been well known within close circles about the B12 but now slowly coming out.

Now factory in the B12 and all of this makes sense.

Hire a coach that is respectable, knows the teams and coaches from the b12 to get you to that place after what Pastner has done then hire your big hire after that.

sounds like a plan, maybe like someone or somebody was thinking like they have a bigger picture strategy and this all fits in huh...think on it a bit

I sure hope you're right, but if not...