for acting like children.

I haven't been online since yesterday but I feel the need to respond. After 25 years in college athletics, I have met a lot of people. One happens to now work at Mizzou after working at Memphis after working in OK. Directly from this person I was told Bowen was tough to work for. Same person related the story about Fuente not being able to match Mizzou as he tried to keep Odom and that frustrated Fuente. I never said Bowen wasn't good at his job. I never said He was the reason Fuente or anyone else left. I'm am sticking by my opinion that a strong AD might not have been compatible with strong personalities like Marshall or Williams. I ain't apologizing for anything I wrote in this thread yesterday. It's a message board for crying out loud. Have you guys read some of the crazy *6$# on this board the last 15 years?

(04-14-2016 09:18 AM)EdmondTiger Wrote:  I haven't been online since yesterday but I feel the need to respond. After 25 years in college athletics, I have met a lot of people. One happens to now work at Mizzou after working at Memphis after working in OK. Directly from this person I was told Bowen was tough to work for. Same person related the story about Fuente not being able to match Mizzou as he tried to keep Odom and that frustrated Fuente. I never said Bowen wasn't good at his job. I never said He was the reason Fuente or anyone else left. I'm am sticking by my opinion that a strong AD might not have been compatible with strong personalities like Marshall or Williams. I ain't apologizing for anything I wrote in this thread yesterday. It's a message board for crying out loud. Have you guys read some of the crazy *6$# on this board the last 15 years?

I don't have any behind the scenes knowledge of friction between Fuente and Bowen, other than what was hinted here yesterday.

But I like having an AD that is a hard @$$. Especially considering the push overs we had in the past.

(04-14-2016 10:25 AM)Tiger46 Wrote:  

(04-14-2016 09:18 AM)EdmondTiger Wrote:  I haven't been online since yesterday but I feel the need to respond. After 25 years in college athletics, I have met a lot of people. One happens to now work at Mizzou after working at Memphis after working in OK. Directly from this person I was told Bowen was tough to work for. Same person related the story about Fuente not being able to match Mizzou as he tried to keep Odom and that frustrated Fuente. I never said Bowen wasn't good at his job. I never said He was the reason Fuente or anyone else left. I'm am sticking by my opinion that a strong AD might not have been compatible with strong personalities like Marshall or Williams. I ain't apologizing for anything I wrote in this thread yesterday. It's a message board for crying out loud. Have you guys read some of the crazy *6$# on this board the last 15 years?

I don't have any behind the scenes knowledge of friction between Fuente and Bowen, other than what was hinted here yesterday.

But I like having an AD that is a hard @$$. Especially considering the push overs we had in the past.

I do also, but to a point. When it starts affecting relationships with boosters, coaches, prospective candidates, then it is a problem.

(04-14-2016 08:08 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(04-14-2016 07:32 AM)George CantStandYa Wrote:  atlanta. First off, you aren't using hearsay correctly. Secondly, why are you attacking him for giving his opinion, Whic is ALSO based on direct experience with the coach. Just so you can give your opinion on Bowen. You think he is the best AD we have ever have...may be true, but it also doesn't necessarily make him a good AD. Does a good AD apply for another job without telling his boss, potentially leaving him in the lurch? Which Bowen did. Does a good AD, alienate those in the community that Boosters are bringing him to in order to build broader support for the program? Which this AD has done and continue to do? And I am not talking about fat cat boosters. Does a good AD, almost get in a fight with a coaching candidate who was our number one choice (and the preference of our biggest donor)? Becuase Bowen has done all of those things. As well as run off several talented young people from our athletic department, and negatively influenced other hires. I know all of this. If by stating the truth, which if we were actually in a court room where hearsay applied could be easily proved, I have an axe to grind. Then I have an axe to grind. Just like you have an axe to grind with anyone who dare says anything bad about Bowen.

"Hearsay - the report of another person's words by a witness, usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law." And if hearsay can be proven, then by definition it is not hearsay. Nothing has been proven here & the information presented isn't 1st hand - it's not even the opinion of the writer by his own admission. The "attorney" knows what hearsay is & understands the reference. Further, I am not a Bowen apologist, but I see the results under his tenure (and we have had a succession of cronie type ADs with little ability to do the job apart from glad handing the elite). I don't know 1st hand about how Bowen may have applied for another job (& I bet you don't either), know nothing about Bowen alienating the community (again an opinion), Bowen fighting with a coaching candidate - now that's headline news for which Bowen should have been fired if true (so that's more of a reflection on his boss).

Here's the point, I'm not a Bowen apologist, as I stated from 1st hand interaction. But I also know 1st hand that the Memphis athletic department before Bowen was a sanctuary for the incompetent, unknowledgeable & lazy. I also know first hand, that Bowen was brought in to clean up the athletic department. And maybe, just maybe, what you think you know comes from those apparent successful efforts. Opinions are fine, everyone has one but to make anecdotal statements, represent them as facts (while admitting he knows nothing 1st hand & doesn't want to influence anyone) which are destructive to the reputation of our university while the writer represents himself as an attorney & a Christian are reprehensible to me & go well beyond offering an opinion. In contrast my opinions are mine whether you like them or not - and I am not attempt to use hearsay to bolster their credibility.

Hearsay: is an out of court statement submitted to prove the truth of the matter asserted. I won't even get into the numerous excpetions to the "hearsay rule". But moving on.

I do know first hand about applying for the Cal job without consulting Rudd. I do know firsthand, about offending community members at more than one meeting. I do not know, first hand about the paticularities of the blow up with Odom, but if it came to a point in teh court of law, I could easily prove it.

I am not a Bowen apologist either, and I actually have had pleasant social interactions with him. Such that I was shocked to see his professional demeanor. I agree that with his flaws he is head and shoulders above RC. But my point is, he can be better than RC and still not be good. At this point, I think he has taken us as far as he can take us, and much like Pastner I would be thrilled if he went to another location. With that, I will agree to disagree with you on this. You now know my axe to grind, and why I feel that way. You can discount it as you will.

(04-14-2016 08:20 AM)RCM1029 Wrote:  Can you guys stop merging threads that have nothing to do with each other please?

a mod on a mission

(04-14-2016 09:18 AM)EdmondTiger Wrote:  I haven't been online since yesterday but I feel the need to respond. After 25 years in college athletics, I have met a lot of people. One happens to now work at Mizzou after working at Memphis after working in OK. Directly from this person I was told Bowen was tough to work for. Same person related the story about Fuente not being able to match Mizzou as he tried to keep Odom and that frustrated Fuente. I never said Bowen wasn't good at his job. I never said He was the reason Fuente or anyone else left. I'm am sticking by my opinion that a strong AD might not have been compatible with strong personalities like Marshall or Williams. I ain't apologizing for anything I wrote in this thread yesterday. It's a message board for crying out loud. Have you guys read some of the crazy *6$# on this board the last 15 years?

Life as a non P5.

(04-14-2016 10:58 AM)George CantStandYa Wrote:  

(04-14-2016 08:08 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(04-14-2016 07:32 AM)George CantStandYa Wrote:  atlanta. First off, you aren't using hearsay correctly. Secondly, why are you attacking him for giving his opinion, Whic is ALSO based on direct experience with the coach. Just so you can give your opinion on Bowen. You think he is the best AD we have ever have...may be true, but it also doesn't necessarily make him a good AD. Does a good AD apply for another job without telling his boss, potentially leaving him in the lurch? Which Bowen did. Does a good AD, alienate those in the community that Boosters are bringing him to in order to build broader support for the program? Which this AD has done and continue to do? And I am not talking about fat cat boosters. Does a good AD, almost get in a fight with a coaching candidate who was our number one choice (and the preference of our biggest donor)? Becuase Bowen has done all of those things. As well as run off several talented young people from our athletic department, and negatively influenced other hires. I know all of this. If by stating the truth, which if we were actually in a court room where hearsay applied could be easily proved, I have an axe to grind. Then I have an axe to grind. Just like you have an axe to grind with anyone who dare says anything bad about Bowen.

"Hearsay - the report of another person's words by a witness, usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law." And if hearsay can be proven, then by definition it is not hearsay. Nothing has been proven here & the information presented isn't 1st hand - it's not even the opinion of the writer by his own admission. The "attorney" knows what hearsay is & understands the reference. Further, I am not a Bowen apologist, but I see the results under his tenure (and we have had a succession of cronie type ADs with little ability to do the job apart from glad handing the elite). I don't know 1st hand about how Bowen may have applied for another job (& I bet you don't either), know nothing about Bowen alienating the community (again an opinion), Bowen fighting with a coaching candidate - now that's headline news for which Bowen should have been fired if true (so that's more of a reflection on his boss).

Here's the point, I'm not a Bowen apologist, as I stated from 1st hand interaction. But I also know 1st hand that the Memphis athletic department before Bowen was a sanctuary for the incompetent, unknowledgeable & lazy. I also know first hand, that Bowen was brought in to clean up the athletic department. And maybe, just maybe, what you think you know comes from those apparent successful efforts. Opinions are fine, everyone has one but to make anecdotal statements, represent them as facts (while admitting he knows nothing 1st hand & doesn't want to influence anyone) which are destructive to the reputation of our university while the writer represents himself as an attorney & a Christian are reprehensible to me & go well beyond offering an opinion. In contrast my opinions are mine whether you like them or not - and I am not attempt to use hearsay to bolster their credibility.

Hearsay: is an out of court statement submitted to prove the truth of the matter asserted. I won't even get into the numerous excpetions to the "hearsay rule". But moving on.

I do know first hand about applying for the Cal job without consulting Rudd. I do know firsthand, about offending community members at more than one meeting. I do not know, first hand about the paticularities of the blow up with Odom, but if it came to a point in teh court of law, I could easily prove it.

I am not a Bowen apologist either, and I actually have had pleasant social interactions with him. Such that I was shocked to see his professional demeanor. I agree that with his flaws he is head and shoulders above RC. But my point is, he can be better than RC and still not be good. At this point, I think he has taken us as far as he can take us, and much like Pastner I would be thrilled if he went to another location. With that, I will agree to disagree with you on this. You now know my axe to grind, and why I feel that way. You can discount it as you will.

We will have to agree to agree.

No doubt Bowen is looking for another landing spot where his talents will once again be needed and welcomed.

I will be happy when we can compare our next AD to this one... and not RC. lol

(04-14-2016 11:31 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(04-14-2016 10:58 AM)George CantStandYa Wrote:  

(04-14-2016 08:08 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(04-14-2016 07:32 AM)George CantStandYa Wrote:  atlanta. First off, you aren't using hearsay correctly. Secondly, why are you attacking him for giving his opinion, Whic is ALSO based on direct experience with the coach. Just so you can give your opinion on Bowen. You think he is the best AD we have ever have...may be true, but it also doesn't necessarily make him a good AD. Does a good AD apply for another job without telling his boss, potentially leaving him in the lurch? Which Bowen did. Does a good AD, alienate those in the community that Boosters are bringing him to in order to build broader support for the program? Which this AD has done and continue to do? And I am not talking about fat cat boosters. Does a good AD, almost get in a fight with a coaching candidate who was our number one choice (and the preference of our biggest donor)? Becuase Bowen has done all of those things. As well as run off several talented young people from our athletic department, and negatively influenced other hires. I know all of this. If by stating the truth, which if we were actually in a court room where hearsay applied could be easily proved, I have an axe to grind. Then I have an axe to grind. Just like you have an axe to grind with anyone who dare says anything bad about Bowen.

"Hearsay - the report of another person's words by a witness, usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law." And if hearsay can be proven, then by definition it is not hearsay. Nothing has been proven here & the information presented isn't 1st hand - it's not even the opinion of the writer by his own admission. The "attorney" knows what hearsay is & understands the reference. Further, I am not a Bowen apologist, but I see the results under his tenure (and we have had a succession of cronie type ADs with little ability to do the job apart from glad handing the elite). I don't know 1st hand about how Bowen may have applied for another job (& I bet you don't either), know nothing about Bowen alienating the community (again an opinion), Bowen fighting with a coaching candidate - now that's headline news for which Bowen should have been fired if true (so that's more of a reflection on his boss).

Here's the point, I'm not a Bowen apologist, as I stated from 1st hand interaction. But I also know 1st hand that the Memphis athletic department before Bowen was a sanctuary for the incompetent, unknowledgeable & lazy. I also know first hand, that Bowen was brought in to clean up the athletic department. And maybe, just maybe, what you think you know comes from those apparent successful efforts. Opinions are fine, everyone has one but to make anecdotal statements, represent them as facts (while admitting he knows nothing 1st hand & doesn't want to influence anyone) which are destructive to the reputation of our university while the writer represents himself as an attorney & a Christian are reprehensible to me & go well beyond offering an opinion. In contrast my opinions are mine whether you like them or not - and I am not attempt to use hearsay to bolster their credibility.

Hearsay: is an out of court statement submitted to prove the truth of the matter asserted. I won't even get into the numerous excpetions to the "hearsay rule". But moving on.

I do know first hand about applying for the Cal job without consulting Rudd. I do know firsthand, about offending community members at more than one meeting. I do not know, first hand about the paticularities of the blow up with Odom, but if it came to a point in teh court of law, I could easily prove it.

I am not a Bowen apologist either, and I actually have had pleasant social interactions with him. Such that I was shocked to see his professional demeanor. I agree that with his flaws he is head and shoulders above RC. But my point is, he can be better than RC and still not be good. At this point, I think he has taken us as far as he can take us, and much like Pastner I would be thrilled if he went to another location. With that, I will agree to disagree with you on this. You now know my axe to grind, and why I feel that way. You can discount it as you will.

We will have to agree to agree.

No doubt Bowen is looking for another landing spot where his talents will once again be needed and welcomed.

I will be happy when we can compare our next AD to this one... and not RC. lol

Really Memphis has had a history of weak ADs, not just RC. Maybe a personality like Bowen has done the job needed & as such would not have ever been liked. There's always a school that needs a house cleaning & Bowen seems to really enjoy that environment (SJSU). Maybe he'll find the right match & you 'll be able to make that comparison. But I give him kudos for the Norvell & Tubby hires (even if he is not responsible) & for helping JP feel uncomfortable remaining here.

(04-13-2016 11:34 PM)tigerscribe Wrote:  

(04-13-2016 10:54 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(04-13-2016 10:49 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(04-13-2016 10:40 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(04-13-2016 09:45 PM)tigerscribe Wrote:  You can believe what you want. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything about Tom Bowen.

You're right I don't know you. But I've read enough to know you have a axe to grind against Bowen - and likely by how you couched it, it's not even first hand information. It's just what someone told you. What's the point? Your statements don't support our university & are inappropriate hearsay for a supporter of our university. I would think an attorney with any maturity would know better. Have the conversation with Bowen if you have the goods, or better yet have it with his boss. And so you'll know I don't particularly like Bowen personally either but that come from personal face-to-face discussions with him. But I can say unequivocally & without question Bowen is the best AD our university has had since.....well I can't remember an AD that better represented our university in conducting athletics department business in the last 50 years.

Hey Atlanta, if you don't like what Tigerscribe has to say, how about ignoring him?

I asked him for more info., he's nice enough to provide it, and you go accusing him of being anti-university. Come on, man.

You can do the same bud. And maybe you guys can continue to hide behind your anonymity & say whatever you like about a 3rd party regardless of where the truth lies & where hearsay & opinion begins.

I have no axe to grind against Bowen, but I know a football coach who did and he told me and others. When another Tiger fan seemed to be questioned for saying Bowen and Fuente didn't get along, I jumped in to defend him.

You have read things into my comments that aren't there. I have no agenda here. As I stated above I don't have a firm opinion about Bowen. I witnessed none of what happened and I know my friend was jaded and angry. It was personal for him, which was understandable. But I know there is another side to every story.

When I said you don't know me, I meant it. I'm not a message board crazy. I'm an alum and I've been a fan since I started going to games in the early 70's with my father and grandfather, but I keep things in perspective. I'm a Christian, a husband, and a father first. I have a business to run. I have elderly parents to care for. I have a month-long foreign mission trip I'm preparing for. My life simply doesn't revolve around sports or entertainment. I have no motive for being here other than to try to understand what is happening at my alma mater. I don't want anything I say to influence anyone about a coach or a member of the administration. If I want to truly influence I will contact the appropriate decision makers directly and make my opinion known.

Good night

Bless you my man

(04-13-2016 10:38 PM)BadGolfer Wrote:   I can't believe I stayed away so long. I used to post under a different username. This is so entertaining.

Did you used to be a good golfer ?

MAJOR problem...

Football is riding a historic run of success.
Football just replaced one successful young coach with another young coach who was highly sought after.
Basketball just got out from under an inherited bad situation, and a historically bad contract with a fairly minimal payout.
Basketball just hired the most accomplished coach in the history of Memphis hirings.
Facilities are at high major D1 levels.
Fund raising is at all time highs.
We are as close as we've ever been to affiliation with a major all-sports conference.

The sky is indeed falling.

(04-14-2016 12:28 PM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  

(04-13-2016 11:34 PM)tigerscribe Wrote:  

(04-13-2016 10:54 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(04-13-2016 10:49 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(04-13-2016 10:40 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  You're right I don't know you. But I've read enough to know you have a axe to grind against Bowen - and likely by how you couched it, it's not even first hand information. It's just what someone told you. What's the point? Your statements don't support our university & are inappropriate hearsay for a supporter of our university. I would think an attorney with any maturity would know better. Have the conversation with Bowen if you have the goods, or better yet have it with his boss. And so you'll know I don't particularly like Bowen personally either but that come from personal face-to-face discussions with him. But I can say unequivocally & without question Bowen is the best AD our university has had since.....well I can't remember an AD that better represented our university in conducting athletics department business in the last 50 years.

Hey Atlanta, if you don't like what Tigerscribe has to say, how about ignoring him?

I asked him for more info., he's nice enough to provide it, and you go accusing him of being anti-university. Come on, man.

You can do the same bud. And maybe you guys can continue to hide behind your anonymity & say whatever you like about a 3rd party regardless of where the truth lies & where hearsay & opinion begins.

I have no axe to grind against Bowen, but I know a football coach who did and he told me and others. When another Tiger fan seemed to be questioned for saying Bowen and Fuente didn't get along, I jumped in to defend him.

You have read things into my comments that aren't there. I have no agenda here. As I stated above I don't have a firm opinion about Bowen. I witnessed none of what happened and I know my friend was jaded and angry. It was personal for him, which was understandable. But I know there is another side to every story.

When I said you don't know me, I meant it. I'm not a message board crazy. I'm an alum and I've been a fan since I started going to games in the early 70's with my father and grandfather, but I keep things in perspective. I'm a Christian, a husband, and a father first. I have a business to run. I have elderly parents to care for. I have a month-long foreign mission trip I'm preparing for. My life simply doesn't revolve around sports or entertainment. I have no motive for being here other than to try to understand what is happening at my alma mater. I don't want anything I say to influence anyone about a coach or a member of the administration. If I want to truly influence I will contact the appropriate decision makers directly and make my opinion known.

Good night

Bless you my man

I have no dog in this hunt. Nor does it matter anymore since Fuente is gone. However Fuente himself told me 18 months ago he planned to stay 2 years but it would be very hard considering who our AD was. Now he left a year earlier than he thought and I don't think the AD had anything to do with that. Paxton peaking earlier than expected did!