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The economies of the Star Wars - Star Trek universes
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ArmyBlazer Online
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Post: #61
RE: The economies of the Star Wars - Star Trek universes
(08-10-2020 07:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(08-08-2020 04:29 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  "The Inner Light" is still the best Star Trek episode of all the different series. Its the high water mark of the entire franchise as far as the TV shows.


Spoiler alert:

The crew encounters a small probe near a planet who's sun killed the civilization over 1000 years before. The probe emits a beam that knocks Picard unconscious, and he wakes up as a married man living in that society in its latter years. After spending a few years adjusting to his new reality, he lets go of his old life and lives out an entire lifetime, having children and grandchildren living with these people (Picard always regretted never having children). He even learns to play a flute and a very beautiful melody known to that world.

In the end as an old man, he sees the probe being launched as the people know their civilization is about to die. He then realizes its the probe that finds him 1000 years later, and he sees all the people he loved who had lived and died there telling him not to forget who they are and were.

Picard then wakes up on the bridge of the enterprise with everyone surround him and realizes only about 10-12 minutes have passed, but he has experienced an entire lifetime in those few minutes.

As the episode closes, they beam the probe aboard and in it is a small case with the flute he played, the episode ends with him clutching the flute as the only remnant of the life he experienced as he plays that beautiful melody.

If that episode doesn't touch your heart, then you are dead inside.

That's good, but you need to watch more TOS and DS9. Just to list a few (not to mention the humorous ones like "The Trouble with Tribbles" or "Trials and Tribbleations")
TOS
City on the Edge of Forever (Kirk travels in time and falls in love)
Conscience of the King (Kirk sees someone who disappeared who selected which colonists lived and which were killed on a planet with a food shortage)
All Our Yesterdays (Spock travels in time on another planet and falls in love)
DS9
The Visitor (Jake loses his Father, Captain Sisko, and tries to get him back)
In the Pale Moonlight (Sisko deals with ethics in time of war and how far he will go)
The Siege of AR-558 (gritty siege)

IMO, In the Pale Moonlight is the best episode of the entire Star Trek franchise and DS9 is the best series.
08-11-2020 05:44 AM
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umbluegray Offline
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Post: #62
RE: The economies of the Star Wars - Star Trek universes
(08-11-2020 02:07 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(08-10-2020 07:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(08-08-2020 04:29 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  "The Inner Light" is still the best Star Trek episode of all the different series. Its the high water mark of the entire franchise as far as the TV shows.


Spoiler alert:

The crew encounters a small probe near a planet who's sun killed the civilization over 1000 years before. The probe emits a beam that knocks Picard unconscious, and he wakes up as a married man living in that society in its latter years. After spending a few years adjusting to his new reality, he lets go of his old life and lives out an entire lifetime, having children and grandchildren living with these people (Picard always regretted never having children). He even learns to play a flute and a very beautiful melody known to that world.

In the end as an old man, he sees the probe being launched as the people know their civilization is about to die. He then realizes its the probe that finds him 1000 years later, and he sees all the people he loved who had lived and died there telling him not to forget who they are and were.

Picard then wakes up on the bridge of the enterprise with everyone surround him and realizes only about 10-12 minutes have passed, but he has experienced an entire lifetime in those few minutes.

As the episode closes, they beam the probe aboard and in it is a small case with the flute he played, the episode ends with him clutching the flute as the only remnant of the life he experienced as he plays that beautiful melody.

If that episode doesn't touch your heart, then you are dead inside.

That's good, but you need to watch more TOS and DS9. Just to list a few (not to mention the humorous ones like "The Trouble with Tribbles" or "Trials and Tribbleations")
TOS
City on the Edge of Forever (Kirk travels in time and falls in love)
Conscience of the King (Kirk sees someone who disappeared who selected which colonists lived and which were killed on a planet with a food shortage)
All Our Yesterdays (Spock travels in time on another planet and falls in love)
DS9
The Visitor (Jake loses his Father, Captain Sisko, and tries to get him back)
In the Pale Moonlight (Sisko deals with ethics in time of war and how far he will go)
The Siege of AR-558 (gritty siege)




I've seen them all at least 3-4 times my man. 04-cheers

I was recovering from surgery about 10 years ago and spliced together Trouble with tribbles and trials & tribbilations into one giant episode, and it came out really well. I've lost the disk thought.

Enterprise was pretty good too.

I actually really enjoyed Enterprise.
08-11-2020 08:14 AM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #63
RE: The economies of the Star Wars - Star Trek universes
(08-11-2020 08:14 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(08-11-2020 02:07 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(08-10-2020 07:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(08-08-2020 04:29 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  "The Inner Light" is still the best Star Trek episode of all the different series. Its the high water mark of the entire franchise as far as the TV shows.


Spoiler alert:

The crew encounters a small probe near a planet who's sun killed the civilization over 1000 years before. The probe emits a beam that knocks Picard unconscious, and he wakes up as a married man living in that society in its latter years. After spending a few years adjusting to his new reality, he lets go of his old life and lives out an entire lifetime, having children and grandchildren living with these people (Picard always regretted never having children). He even learns to play a flute and a very beautiful melody known to that world.

In the end as an old man, he sees the probe being launched as the people know their civilization is about to die. He then realizes its the probe that finds him 1000 years later, and he sees all the people he loved who had lived and died there telling him not to forget who they are and were.

Picard then wakes up on the bridge of the enterprise with everyone surround him and realizes only about 10-12 minutes have passed, but he has experienced an entire lifetime in those few minutes.

As the episode closes, they beam the probe aboard and in it is a small case with the flute he played, the episode ends with him clutching the flute as the only remnant of the life he experienced as he plays that beautiful melody.

If that episode doesn't touch your heart, then you are dead inside.

That's good, but you need to watch more TOS and DS9. Just to list a few (not to mention the humorous ones like "The Trouble with Tribbles" or "Trials and Tribbleations")
TOS
City on the Edge of Forever (Kirk travels in time and falls in love)
Conscience of the King (Kirk sees someone who disappeared who selected which colonists lived and which were killed on a planet with a food shortage)
All Our Yesterdays (Spock travels in time on another planet and falls in love)
DS9
The Visitor (Jake loses his Father, Captain Sisko, and tries to get him back)
In the Pale Moonlight (Sisko deals with ethics in time of war and how far he will go)
The Siege of AR-558 (gritty siege)




I've seen them all at least 3-4 times my man. 04-cheers

I was recovering from surgery about 10 years ago and spliced together Trouble with tribbles and trials & tribbilations into one giant episode, and it came out really well. I've lost the disk thought.

Enterprise was pretty good too.

I actually really enjoyed Enterprise.


Same here. 04-cheers

It was incredibly well done as a prequel to all the other series.
08-11-2020 08:36 AM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #64
RE: The economies of the Star Wars - Star Trek universes
DS9 was great because it the darkest of all the different shows and dealing with wartime issues.

The whole story arc about the Founders and the Dominion was fascinating. And all the terrible choices Sisko had to make and abandon so many star trek principles.

DS9 started slow the first season, but WOW did it hit its stride in the middle and latter seasons and the Dominion war took off.
08-11-2020 08:42 AM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #65
RE: The economies of the Star Wars - Star Trek universes
Here's a couple of great articles about what Star Wars teaches us about military bureaucracies:

https://www.overthinkingit.com/2012/09/1...valries/2/

https://warisboring.com/star-wars-mega-w...tic-sense/
08-11-2020 10:10 AM
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Post: #66
RE: The economies of the Star Wars - Star Trek universes
(08-11-2020 08:42 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  DS9 was great because it the darkest of all the different shows and dealing with wartime issues.

The whole story arc about the Founders and the Dominion was fascinating. And all the terrible choices Sisko had to make and abandon so many star trek principles.

DS9 started slow the first season, but WOW did it hit its stride in the middle and latter seasons and the Dominion war took off.

Agreed. Over time, I've even began to appreciate the Ferengi episodes which seemed really silly at first. Its kind of a 3 Stooges version of parody.

TOS and DS9 had the highest highs but had some weak episodes. TNG was more even. Enterprise was good and had its own "Pale Moonlight" moments, although not quite at the level of the other 3. Voyager had its moments, but Captain Janeway never really worked. Her character was all over the place and was probably the least likable character on the show, let alone compared to the other captains.
08-11-2020 10:15 AM
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Post: #67
RE: The economies of the Star Wars - Star Trek universes
(08-11-2020 08:36 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(08-11-2020 08:14 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(08-11-2020 02:07 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(08-10-2020 07:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(08-08-2020 04:29 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  "The Inner Light" is still the best Star Trek episode of all the different series. Its the high water mark of the entire franchise as far as the TV shows.


Spoiler alert:

The crew encounters a small probe near a planet who's sun killed the civilization over 1000 years before. The probe emits a beam that knocks Picard unconscious, and he wakes up as a married man living in that society in its latter years. After spending a few years adjusting to his new reality, he lets go of his old life and lives out an entire lifetime, having children and grandchildren living with these people (Picard always regretted never having children). He even learns to play a flute and a very beautiful melody known to that world.

In the end as an old man, he sees the probe being launched as the people know their civilization is about to die. He then realizes its the probe that finds him 1000 years later, and he sees all the people he loved who had lived and died there telling him not to forget who they are and were.

Picard then wakes up on the bridge of the enterprise with everyone surround him and realizes only about 10-12 minutes have passed, but he has experienced an entire lifetime in those few minutes.

As the episode closes, they beam the probe aboard and in it is a small case with the flute he played, the episode ends with him clutching the flute as the only remnant of the life he experienced as he plays that beautiful melody.

If that episode doesn't touch your heart, then you are dead inside.

That's good, but you need to watch more TOS and DS9. Just to list a few (not to mention the humorous ones like "The Trouble with Tribbles" or "Trials and Tribbleations")
TOS
City on the Edge of Forever (Kirk travels in time and falls in love)
Conscience of the King (Kirk sees someone who disappeared who selected which colonists lived and which were killed on a planet with a food shortage)
All Our Yesterdays (Spock travels in time on another planet and falls in love)
DS9
The Visitor (Jake loses his Father, Captain Sisko, and tries to get him back)
In the Pale Moonlight (Sisko deals with ethics in time of war and how far he will go)
The Siege of AR-558 (gritty siege)




I've seen them all at least 3-4 times my man. 04-cheers

I was recovering from surgery about 10 years ago and spliced together Trouble with tribbles and trials & tribbilations into one giant episode, and it came out really well. I've lost the disk thought.

Enterprise was pretty good too.

I actually really enjoyed Enterprise.


Same here. 04-cheers

It was incredibly well done as a prequel to all the other series.

I thought Enterprise was great as well. Season 4 was really well done IMO. I wished that the show had fulfilled its twin promises of showing the creation of the UFP and the build-up to the Romulan War. The time travel and Suliban arcs in Season 1 and 2 distracted from that mission.
08-11-2020 02:33 PM
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ArmyBlazer Online
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Post: #68
RE: The economies of the Star Wars - Star Trek universes
(08-11-2020 02:33 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(08-11-2020 08:36 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(08-11-2020 08:14 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(08-11-2020 02:07 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(08-10-2020 07:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  That's good, but you need to watch more TOS and DS9. Just to list a few (not to mention the humorous ones like "The Trouble with Tribbles" or "Trials and Tribbleations")
TOS
City on the Edge of Forever (Kirk travels in time and falls in love)
Conscience of the King (Kirk sees someone who disappeared who selected which colonists lived and which were killed on a planet with a food shortage)
All Our Yesterdays (Spock travels in time on another planet and falls in love)
DS9
The Visitor (Jake loses his Father, Captain Sisko, and tries to get him back)
In the Pale Moonlight (Sisko deals with ethics in time of war and how far he will go)
The Siege of AR-558 (gritty siege)




I've seen them all at least 3-4 times my man. 04-cheers

I was recovering from surgery about 10 years ago and spliced together Trouble with tribbles and trials & tribbilations into one giant episode, and it came out really well. I've lost the disk thought.

Enterprise was pretty good too.

I actually really enjoyed Enterprise.


Same here. 04-cheers

It was incredibly well done as a prequel to all the other series.

I thought Enterprise was great as well. Season 4 was really well done IMO. I wished that the show had fulfilled its twin promises of showing the creation of the UFP and the build-up to the Romulan War. The time travel and Suliban arcs in Season 1 and 2 distracted from that mission.

I agree that Enterprise is really underrated, butThe whole temporal Cold War thing wrecked the series, IMO. I would love to see an exploration of the Romulan War.
08-11-2020 04:45 PM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #69
RE: The economies of the Star Wars - Star Trek universes
(08-11-2020 04:45 PM)ArmyBlazer Wrote:  
(08-11-2020 02:33 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(08-11-2020 08:36 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(08-11-2020 08:14 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(08-11-2020 02:07 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  I've seen them all at least 3-4 times my man. 04-cheers

I was recovering from surgery about 10 years ago and spliced together Trouble with tribbles and trials & tribbilations into one giant episode, and it came out really well. I've lost the disk thought.

Enterprise was pretty good too.

I actually really enjoyed Enterprise.


Same here. 04-cheers

It was incredibly well done as a prequel to all the other series.

I thought Enterprise was great as well. Season 4 was really well done IMO. I wished that the show had fulfilled its twin promises of showing the creation of the UFP and the build-up to the Romulan War. The time travel and Suliban arcs in Season 1 and 2 distracted from that mission.

I agree that Enterprise is really underrated, butThe whole temporal Cold War thing wrecked the series, IMO. I would love to see an exploration of the Romulan War.



They were in the early stages of it when it was canceled late in season 4.
08-11-2020 05:21 PM
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Post: #70
RE: The economies of the Star Wars - Star Trek universes
(08-11-2020 08:42 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  DS9 was great because it the darkest of all the different shows and dealing with wartime issues.

The whole story arc about the Founders and the Dominion was fascinating. And all the terrible choices Sisko had to make and abandon so many star trek principles.

DS9 started slow the first season, but WOW did it hit its stride in the middle and latter seasons and the Dominion war took off.

Way of the Warrior, Duet, and In the Pale Moonlight are simply amazing...I would actually say In the Pale Moonlight is the best episode of Trek I've ever seen (and it's mostly great writing/acting with very little explosions or effects)
08-11-2020 06:16 PM
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Post: #71
RE: The economies of the Star Wars - Star Trek universes
(08-10-2020 07:28 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(08-10-2020 07:13 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(08-10-2020 04:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(08-10-2020 03:58 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  In Star Trek - replicators are what ushered in the post scarcity economy seen in the UFP core worlds.

Yes but in Bladerunner when they made primo tail into replicants they hired cops to retire them.

It' makes no sense. Surely there is as much need for beautiful compliant women as there is for basic food sources!

This proves humanity's inability to manage anything. So what if you can get a reasonable cup of Earl Grey tea! If you can have Johanna Cassidy, Daryl Hannah, and Sean Young replicated for the sake of male humanity and the government forbids it and kills the reproductions then what good are we as a species? And what good is replication with restrictions?

I say that lawyers and corporations will determine that replicators destroy free market enterprise. A good cup of tea should cost you something as you speed across the galaxy. And Sean Young, Darryl Hannah, and Johanna Cassidy should be paid for their likeness and image, with perhaps a bit of an enjoyment stipend for them as well.

Vandiver, you can never have stuff in space the way Star Trek depicts it because I guarandamntee you there will be lawyers and politicians in space to screw it up!

While your references are a little dated, modern versions could sell their name image and likeness for the holodeck experience you suggest. Lawyers aren’t what kills the idea of post scarcity, as solving material needs/wants is at least feasible. It’s the astronomical costs of relationships and experiences that would undue that dream IMO.

Well, of course my examples are dated! I'm dated! But the movie did come out after the original Star Wars so it was fair game and certainly better than the gut busting Alien offering. As to lawyers and corporations I'm right about this one. And as to relationship issues must I remind you that replicants replace the litigious human female. And with gender dysphoria, cyber relationships, and fear of commitment, not to mention no understanding about how to actually date, the childless generation which lives among 8 billion others will naturally be inclined to believe that replicants are their best option. So no wives, no legalities! No progeny, no ontology recapitulating phylogeny. The Universe is spared!

And Vandiver, I'm just having some fun, is this really a serious discussion about Star Trek and Star Wars when we haven't even been to the dark side of the moon and the greatest food advancement for NASA was Tang?

We will never be able to recreate things molecularly. It is the modern version of alchemy. A Holodeck experience may be a different matter but even then robotic have years to go before the animatronics even work well enough and that doesn't even begin to account for the programming issues with developing a reactive replicant.

There are 2 things only that people need to realize every morning they wake up:
1. The Sun is burning toward Super Nova and we need to spend our time learning how to travel space or we are toast.
2. You can't achieve #1 worrying about those who can't keep up. We can strive to provide necessities, but we have to manage our planet so that it lasts until we leave it. So we travel at the fastest pace scientifically, technologically, and educationally, and we let those who fall behind take care of the planet. All of God's children have a purpose and things naturally sort themselves out.

And I ask you, "What good have we ultimately accomplished if we fail to preserve the species?"

I wouldn’t say that we will never be able to create things molecularly. The impossible burger is food made using a particular molecule. It’s not the replicator because it’s not taking plain old atoms and turning it into something, but it is something.

Make it universal enough over time and it’s food manufactured needing less space and water.
08-11-2020 08:27 PM
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nomad2u2001 Offline
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Post: #72
RE: The economies of the Star Wars - Star Trek universes
(08-10-2020 07:47 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Technology could radically change the way a society handles monetary policy..as these SciFi series tried to imply. If you can produce anything you need by rearranging atoms in machines... then you would for sure live in a completely different economic and societal paradigm. Food, water, clothing and likely shelter is no longer a concern. You would live in a world in which higher lever concerns of philosophy, mathematics, linguistics, medicine..ect..ect..would be addressed as normal day to day life... instead of academic.

Honestly...I really don't want to live in that world. I enjoy working wood and making things with my skill and my hands. I like firing up a grill and cooking a juicy TBone over hot coals...in a warm Summer afternoon and enjoying a ice cold adult beverage in the sunshine.

Even in the Star Trek universe, people still do all of that.
08-11-2020 08:29 PM
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Post: #73
RE: The economies of the Star Wars - Star Trek universes
(08-11-2020 08:29 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  
(08-10-2020 07:47 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Technology could radically change the way a society handles monetary policy..as these SciFi series tried to imply. If you can produce anything you need by rearranging atoms in machines... then you would for sure live in a completely different economic and societal paradigm. Food, water, clothing and likely shelter is no longer a concern. You would live in a world in which higher lever concerns of philosophy, mathematics, linguistics, medicine..ect..ect..would be addressed as normal day to day life... instead of academic.

Honestly...I really don't want to live in that world. I enjoy working wood and making things with my skill and my hands. I like firing up a grill and cooking a juicy TBone over hot coals...in a warm Summer afternoon and enjoying a ice cold adult beverage in the sunshine.

Even in the Star Trek universe, people still do all of that.

Is replicating money or its substitute counterfeiting? And btw, the impossible burger has to be desired to be successful. So far not so much. But an attempt nonetheless.
08-11-2020 08:32 PM
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nomad2u2001 Offline
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Post: #74
RE: The economies of the Star Wars - Star Trek universes
(08-11-2020 08:32 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(08-11-2020 08:29 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  
(08-10-2020 07:47 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Technology could radically change the way a society handles monetary policy..as these SciFi series tried to imply. If you can produce anything you need by rearranging atoms in machines... then you would for sure live in a completely different economic and societal paradigm. Food, water, clothing and likely shelter is no longer a concern. You would live in a world in which higher lever concerns of philosophy, mathematics, linguistics, medicine..ect..ect..would be addressed as normal day to day life... instead of academic.

Honestly...I really don't want to live in that world. I enjoy working wood and making things with my skill and my hands. I like firing up a grill and cooking a juicy TBone over hot coals...in a warm Summer afternoon and enjoying a ice cold adult beverage in the sunshine.

Even in the Star Trek universe, people still do all of that.

Is replicating money or its substitute counterfeiting? And btw, the impossible burger has to be desired to be successful. So far not so much. But an attempt nonetheless.

Impossible foods is seeing a lot of success for a company that’s only had a product for 4 years though. They have their products in a lot of places these days and they’re growing. The fact that it can be made in the first place is a big deal.

Replicating money would be counterfeiting because it would be replicating serial numbers. There’d be a department in the USSS for that I’d guess.
08-11-2020 08:48 PM
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