Obviously, the source is a joke--but it does make one think. These were basically the same schools that were considering a merger prior to 5 schools being stripped off CUSA by the Big East/AAC. Might they look at the same move again in a effort to get as close to a best of the rest as is possible under current conditions? If so, how would it work? Personally, I think a full merger of these 2 conferences in the current environment is just too big to work---but maybe some of you have a different view. I think it would be a fun league---but I don't know if it would be particularly profitable.


MHver3 ‏@MHver3  · 3h3 hours ago

MWC has talked to AAC about a possible merger again. Aresco spoke with several MWC school presidents recently about logistics

1) Unwieldy - 24 teams reaching from New England to Hawai'i. That's 6 time zones (a quarter of the way around the world). Conference teams would go a decade without playing each other. Unless the NCAA allows for a double playoff in football (2 games), how would this conference even get a champion that is recognized
2) Unstable - Divisional play will cause strife between the two halfs (or 4 pods)
3) Expensive - Travel costs will increase
4) Complicated - Remember that you can't just have a 'football only' FBS conference. This is going to have to work for basketball too.

And this conference would not get into the P5. Too many teams for this to work now.

(04-05-2016 11:09 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Obviously, the source is a joke--but it does make one think. These were basically the same schools that were considering a merger prior to 5 schools being stripped off CUSA by the Big East/AAC. Might they look at the same move again in a effort to get as close to a best of the rest as is possible under current conditions? If so, how would it work? Personally, I think a full merger of these 2 conferences in the current environment is just too big to work---but maybe some of you have a different view. I think it would be a fun league---but I don't know if it would be particularly profitable.


MHver3 ‏@MHver3  · 3h3 hours ago

MWC has talked to AAC about a possible merger again. Aresco spoke with several MWC school presidents recently about logistics

It wouldn't be a merger.

Aresco would take Air Force and likely 3 others, to create a West Wing. IMO, those 3 would be SDSU, Boise (who would never let themselves get left in a weaker conference), and either CSU or UNLV.

Two 8 teams divisions (w/ a West of Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Navy, Air Force, UNLV/CSU, Boise, SDSU... which wouldn't be a bad division) would ease the strain on non-revenue sports.

If it happens, it will probably be because the AAC and/or MWC conference will lose some teams to P5 conferences.

For example, let's say the Big12 expands and takes New Mex, Col. ST, Cincy and UCF.

At that point, the AAC and MWC could merge with Hawaii, Navy football only.

That would be 9 all sports from MWC + 9 all sports from AAC + 2 football only.

Of course the question would be why merge for other sports when it really makes sense only for football? So instead maybe the MWC football schools should join the AAC for football only and leave their other sports in the MWC or Big West.

Depends on whom goes to the Big 12 first ! Then the speculation begins.

(04-05-2016 11:27 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Depends on whom goes to the Big 12 first ! Then the speculation begins.

It's going to be a wild ride. This same @mhver3 has speculated the Big 12 and/or the ACC wont survive... Where do the spare parts from those 2 go?

Lol, "The Alliance" talk is back !!!

Didn't I see this before?

(04-05-2016 11:40 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  Lol, "The Alliance" talk is back !!!

Didn't I see this before?

lol...Exactly. That's why I actually believe there could be something to it. These are basically the same schools that considered this move once before. The reality is half of CUSA left before it was fully hammered out and it eventually fell apart after they left.

Answer- The future of the conference.

(04-05-2016 11:29 AM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  

(04-05-2016 11:27 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Depends on whom goes to the Big 12 first ! Then the speculation begins.

It's going to be a wild ride. This same @mhver3 has speculated the Big 12 and/or the ACC wont survive... Where do the spare parts from those 2 go?

My first thought, also. Unless Aresco is speculating the first domino is something like Texas, Oklahoma, and two others from the Big 12 to the PAC. Are the remaining Big 12 six strong enough to cherry pick the top six programs from the MWC and AAC? But how stable would that 18 team MWCAAC be?

The CUSA lesson should be smaller is better.

(04-05-2016 11:09 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Obviously, the source is a joke--but it does make one think. These were basically the same schools that were considering a merger prior to 5 schools being stripped off CUSA by the Big East/AAC. Might they look at the same move again in a effort to get as close to a best of the rest as is possible under current conditions? If so, how would it work? Personally, I think a full merger of these 2 conferences in the current environment is just too big to work---but maybe some of you have a different view. I think it would be a fun league---but I don't know if it would be particularly profitable.


MHver3 ‏@MHver3  · 3h3 hours ago

MWC has talked to AAC about a possible merger again. Aresco spoke with several MWC school presidents recently about logistics

It would take power conference TV money to justify and those days are gone.

(04-05-2016 11:18 AM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  

(04-05-2016 11:09 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Obviously, the source is a joke--but it does make one think. These were basically the same schools that were considering a merger prior to 5 schools being stripped off CUSA by the Big East/AAC. Might they look at the same move again in a effort to get as close to a best of the rest as is possible under current conditions? If so, how would it work? Personally, I think a full merger of these 2 conferences in the current environment is just too big to work---but maybe some of you have a different view. I think it would be a fun league---but I don't know if it would be particularly profitable.


MHver3 ‏@MHver3  · 3h3 hours ago

MWC has talked to AAC about a possible merger again. Aresco spoke with several MWC school presidents recently about logistics

It wouldn't be a merger.

Aresco would take Air Force and likely 3 others, to create a West Wing. IMO, those 3 would be SDSU, Boise (who would never let themselves get left in a weaker conference), and either CSU or UNLV.

Two 8 teams divisions (w/ a West of Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Navy, Air Force, UNLV/CSU, Boise, SDSU... which wouldn't be a bad division) would ease the strain on non-revenue sports.

I do not think Aresco has the power to dictate to MWC schools what he wants them to do.

(04-05-2016 11:47 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-05-2016 11:40 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  Lol, "The Alliance" talk is back !!!

Didn't I see this before?

lol...Exactly. That's why I actually believe there could be something to it. These are basically the same schools that considered this move once before.

Yes on the MWC side. CUSA/AAC side, not so much.
MWC: Fresno, UNLV, UNR, WYO, CSU, AFA, UNM, Hawaii(FB)
CUSA: UTEP, Rice, Tulsa, Memphis, Tulane, ECU, USM, UAB, Marshall
Add Temple football, move UTEP to the western half.

So 8 of the 12 MWC schools, and 4 to 5 of the 12 AAC schools. Is that half? I dunno. It's something.

It's a not-great idea anyway. But whatever.

(04-05-2016 11:17 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  1) Unwieldy - 24 teams reaching from New England to Hawai'i. That's 6 time zones (a quarter of the way around the world). Conference teams would go a decade without playing each other. Unless the NCAA allows for a double playoff in football (2 games), how would this conference even get a champion that is recognized
2) Unstable - Divisional play will cause strife between the two halfs (or 4 pods)
3) Expensive - Travel costs will increase
4) Complicated - Remember that you can't just have a 'football only' FBS conference. This is going to have to work for basketball too.

And this conference would not get into the P5. Too many teams for this to work now.

I agree. We tried something like this on a smaller scale with the WAC and it was a disaster.

(04-05-2016 01:06 PM)panama Wrote:  

(04-05-2016 11:09 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Obviously, the source is a joke--but it does make one think. These were basically the same schools that were considering a merger prior to 5 schools being stripped off CUSA by the Big East/AAC. Might they look at the same move again in a effort to get as close to a best of the rest as is possible under current conditions? If so, how would it work? Personally, I think a full merger of these 2 conferences in the current environment is just too big to work---but maybe some of you have a different view. I think it would be a fun league---but I don't know if it would be particularly profitable.


MHver3 ‏@MHver3  · 3h3 hours ago

MWC has talked to AAC about a possible merger again. Aresco spoke with several MWC school presidents recently about logistics

It would take power conference TV money to justify and those days are gone.

Why? With a little planning and the liberal use of divisional only play for non-revenue sports, I dont see the travel burden being much different from CUSA, the current AAC, or the current MW. I mean, if Old Dominion can fly to UTEP while making less than a million a year per team in media---is there really any financial issue in a merged AAC/MW that couldn't be overcome?

The biggest issue I see with a straight up merger is its just too big (if the AAC lost 4, you'd still be talking about a 20 team conference). I think you'd be better off consolidating the best 6-8 out of the MW with whats left of the AAC. That gives you a 16 team conference--which is still big, but its not ridiculously big. Its large enough to create coherent divisions with reasonable travel--but large enough to place a rooting interest in virtually every region of the country. Youre going to need a slightly larger conference if your going for a national footprint.

(04-05-2016 01:08 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(04-05-2016 11:47 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-05-2016 11:40 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  Lol, "The Alliance" talk is back !!!

Didn't I see this before?

lol...Exactly. That's why I actually believe there could be something to it. These are basically the same schools that considered this move once before.

Yes on the MWC side. CUSA/AAC side, not so much.
MWC: Fresno, UNLV, UNR, WYO, CSU, AFA, UNM, Hawaii(FB)
CUSA: UTEP, Rice, Tulsa, Memphis, Tulane, ECU, USM, UAB, Marshall
Add Temple football, move UTEP to the western half.

So 8 of the 12 MWC schools, and 4 to 5 of the 12 AAC schools. Is that half? I dunno. It's something.

It's a not-great idea anyway. But whatever.

Well, keep in mind, merger talks can take unexpected turns. The Big-12 originally began in the form of talks merging the entire membership of the SWC with the Big-8. In the end, it was the Big-8 just taking 4 schools.

There is no upside to a merger of these two conferences - only a downside.

In football, as separate conferences they have two chances to put their champion in an NY6 bowl. Together, they only have one.

In basketball, each separate conference gets one autobid to the NCAAT. Granted, in most years both leagues would probably get at least one at-large bid. But this year, had they been a single conference, it's likely that the teams in the MWC would not have been represented in the tourney. I'd guess that, at least half the time, being one conference would cost them a bid.

As a practical matter, when merged the two divisions would likely operate in basketball as if they were separate conferences, with little or no crossover scheduling. A conference tournament with 22 teams in four time zones would be a logistical nightmare and likely a financial flop.

And all of the above would be the best case scenario for the new league. Every time one of the 24 combined teams gets poached by a richer conference, the outlook is worse for those left behind. It's hard to see any justification for a merger.

(04-05-2016 01:14 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(04-05-2016 11:17 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  1) Unwieldy - 24 teams reaching from New England to Hawai'i. That's 6 time zones (a quarter of the way around the world). Conference teams would go a decade without playing each other. Unless the NCAA allows for a double playoff in football (2 games), how would this conference even get a champion that is recognized
2) Unstable - Divisional play will cause strife between the two halfs (or 4 pods)
3) Expensive - Travel costs will increase
4) Complicated - Remember that you can't just have a 'football only' FBS conference. This is going to have to work for basketball too.

And this conference would not get into the P5. Too many teams for this to work now.

I agree. We tried something like this on a smaller scale with the WAC and it was a disaster.

True, but the reason for the disaster had more to do with organization than a failure of the concept. If they had just created divisions that kept the Airport 5 together---there would never have been a split. Also, back then, there was no big value in being the best G5 league. Today, any G5 league that can dominate the access bowl can make itself a quasi-P5 conference---so there is a significant value in aligning many of the top G5's under one flag.

Also, Im still convinced that over time, teams in a national G5 conference would earn much more in media revenue due to being the most followed, most recognized, most popular, and most successful G5 conference. It would be the only conference where national broadcasts are somewhat relevant to every portion of the county. I mean, if your cable sports network broadcasts to the entire nation, doesn't it make more sense to have a national footprint for the league rather than a small regional footprint? I think the big name schools have big enough reputations to pull off the regional thing---but G5's need to think differently. Besides, its not like there is anything regional to CUSA or the AAC anyway. There is no regional "identity" to either of those conferences.

(04-05-2016 01:44 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-05-2016 01:08 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(04-05-2016 11:47 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-05-2016 11:40 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  Lol, "The Alliance" talk is back !!!

Didn't I see this before?

lol...Exactly. That's why I actually believe there could be something to it. These are basically the same schools that considered this move once before.

Yes on the MWC side. CUSA/AAC side, not so much.
MWC: Fresno, UNLV, UNR, WYO, CSU, AFA, UNM, Hawaii(FB)
CUSA: UTEP, Rice, Tulsa, Memphis, Tulane, ECU, USM, UAB, Marshall
Add Temple football, move UTEP to the western half.

So 8 of the 12 MWC schools, and 4 to 5 of the 12 AAC schools. Is that half? I dunno. It's something.

It's a not-great idea anyway. But whatever.

Well, keep in mind, merger talks can take unexpected turns. The Big-12 originally began in the form of talks merging the entire membership of the SWC with the Big-8. In the end, it was the Big-8 just taking 4 schools.

Oh, if the endgame is the AAC grabbing 4 MWC schools or the MWC grabbing Houston, SMU, Memphis and Tulane, carry on. Also not as great an idea as you guys think, but it's at least a different bad idea.

(04-05-2016 02:07 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(04-05-2016 01:44 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-05-2016 01:08 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(04-05-2016 11:47 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-05-2016 11:40 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  Lol, "The Alliance" talk is back !!!

Didn't I see this before?

lol...Exactly. That's why I actually believe there could be something to it. These are basically the same schools that considered this move once before.

Yes on the MWC side. CUSA/AAC side, not so much.
MWC: Fresno, UNLV, UNR, WYO, CSU, AFA, UNM, Hawaii(FB)
CUSA: UTEP, Rice, Tulsa, Memphis, Tulane, ECU, USM, UAB, Marshall
Add Temple football, move UTEP to the western half.

So 8 of the 12 MWC schools, and 4 to 5 of the 12 AAC schools. Is that half? I dunno. It's something.

It's a not-great idea anyway. But whatever.

Well, keep in mind, merger talks can take unexpected turns. The Big-12 originally began in the form of talks merging the entire membership of the SWC with the Big-8. In the end, it was the Big-8 just taking 4 schools.

Oh, if the endgame is the AAC grabbing 4 MWC schools or the MWC grabbing Houston, SMU, Memphis and Tulane, carry on. Also not as great an idea as you guys think, but it's at least a different bad idea.

Both conferences have dynamics at play that make this a 'non-starter' for both leagues.

Boise isn't going to move to the AAC without a P5 classification. Neither is BYU. The AAC isn't getting a P5 classification, even with BYU and Boise, so any raid by the AAC to the MWC isn't going to happen.

Houston isn't leaving for the MWC so long as they feel they have a shot at a P5 conference. And SMU isn't leaving Houston. Tulsa isn't going anywhere so long as the AAC is viable.

And if cross conference moves don't make sense for the teams closest to each other, they make even less sense for SDSU and Uconn.

The MWC and the American don't even play each other in any bowl games.

---

The basic problem remains this...merging the MWC and the AAC doesn't get them back to P5 status. It also doesn't prevent a team like App State, or WKU, or NIU taking the access bowl slot either. It dilutes basketball in the AAC. And it would result in lower payouts from the playoffs to the individual teams.

Add to that the unfortunate forecast that overall TV deal payouts will likely decrease, and this makes even less sense. How is this going to produce extra TV revenue for Mr. Average MWC/AAC team?