(04-03-2016 03:44 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  She acknowledges the unborn baby is a ‘person’, yet says it has no constitutional rights.

If a pregnant woman is murdered, does the murdered get charged with one death or two? Serious question as I don't know the answer. Anyone?

(04-04-2016 03:04 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(04-03-2016 10:41 PM)Dasville Wrote:  

(04-03-2016 09:41 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(04-03-2016 05:12 PM)Dasville Wrote:  On record, what is the earliest trimester/months old a child has ever survived outside the womb? Even for a moment, and even with medical help?ngotta believe medicine is getting better.

21 weeks happens now and again, 20 weeks will be the next threshold to fall. Basically were to the point where a kid a little more than half way through the second trimester can survive.

Several babies born in the late teens have survived for hours.

I wonder if Hillary feels "this" life has any rights?

She and all the pro abortion folks believe that a babies location determines it's humanity...

It's not even location. Some abortion docs have left born live aborted babies to die. For the pro-abortion left, protection for the life of the unborn and born alive are solely based on whether they are wanted.

(04-04-2016 09:04 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(04-03-2016 03:44 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  She acknowledges the unborn baby is a ‘person’, yet says it has no constitutional rights.

If a pregnant woman is murdered, does the murdered get charged with one death or two? Serious question as I don't know the answer. Anyone?

Prosecutors charge for 2.

(04-04-2016 09:05 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(04-04-2016 09:04 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(04-03-2016 03:44 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  She acknowledges the unborn baby is a ‘person’, yet says it has no constitutional rights.

If a pregnant woman is murdered, does the murdered get charged with one death or two? Serious question as I don't know the answer. Anyone?

Prosecutors charge for 2.

If that's the case, then Hillary is full of sh!t. Again.

(04-04-2016 09:04 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(04-03-2016 03:44 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  She acknowledges the unborn baby is a ‘person’, yet says it has no constitutional rights.

If a pregnant woman is murdered, does the murdered get charged with one death or two? Serious question as I don't know the answer. Anyone?

It depends on the state but there are cases where there were two charges of murder. I can never get my head around this as it would be ok for the mother to murder her own unborn child (via abortion) but if its life is taken in a murder, car accident, etc then it is murder or manslaughter. How can one be murder/manslaughter and the other not even a crime? Legally it is inconsistent with the only difference being whether the baby is wanted or unwanted.

(04-04-2016 09:06 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(04-04-2016 09:05 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(04-04-2016 09:04 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(04-03-2016 03:44 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  She acknowledges the unborn baby is a ‘person’, yet says it has no constitutional rights.

If a pregnant woman is murdered, does the murdered get charged with one death or two? Serious question as I don't know the answer. Anyone?

Prosecutors charge for 2.

If that's the case, then Hillary is full of sh!t. Again.

They also charge for 1st degree when it should be manslaughter. Prosecutors always try to charge for whatever they can to give them more room to work with, I don't think they are the determinative factor.

(04-04-2016 09:04 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  She's right. Only American citizens have Constitutional Rights. To be an American citizen you have to be either born in America or naturalized.

what about the born alive botched abortion babies that have been left to die by abortion doctors and nurses? they were born alive, living breathing and left to die all because they survived an attempted abortion. where were their constitutional rights?

(04-04-2016 09:11 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(04-04-2016 09:04 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  She's right. Only American citizens have Constitutional Rights. To be an American citizen you have to be either born in America or naturalized.

what about the born alive botched abortion babies that have been left to die by abortion doctors and nurses? they were born alive, living breathing and left to die all because they survived an attempted abortion. where were their constitutional rights?

I wouldn't equate murder and being left to die. People are left to die every day. I'm not a lawyer though.

(04-04-2016 09:07 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(04-04-2016 09:04 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(04-03-2016 03:44 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  She acknowledges the unborn baby is a ‘person’, yet says it has no constitutional rights.

If a pregnant woman is murdered, does the murdered get charged with one death or two? Serious question as I don't know the answer. Anyone?

It depends on the state but there are cases where there were two charges of murder. I can never get my head around this as it would be ok for the mother to murder her own unborn child (via abortion) but if its life is taken in a murder, car accident, etc then it is murder or manslaughter. How can one be murder/manslaughter and the other not even a crime? Legally it is inconsistent with the only difference being whether the baby is wanted or unwanted.

The great paradox, or hypocrisy. Same thing.

(04-04-2016 09:26 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(04-04-2016 09:11 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(04-04-2016 09:04 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  She's right. Only American citizens have Constitutional Rights. To be an American citizen you have to be either born in America or naturalized.

what about the born alive botched abortion babies that have been left to die by abortion doctors and nurses? they were born alive, living breathing and left to die all because they survived an attempted abortion. where were their constitutional rights?

I wouldn't equate murder and being left to die. People are left to die every day. I'm not a lawyer though.

I get that they might not be charged with murder for leaving a baby to die, my question is "shouldn't a baby that survives an abortion alive have a Constitutional Right to care instead of being left to die? If birth is the threshold for personhood and rights then those babies deserved care to save their lives.

If that same baby was born in a hospital, neo-natal docs and nurses move hell and high water to save that baby.

The only difference in the two scenarios is one baby was wanted and the other unwanted.

If "wantedness" for a living person is the key component to gaining Rights, then if it is ok to allow a baby to die because it isn't wanted, we could argue that legally we would be justified to leave the elderly, handicapped to die if they aren't wanted.

I love watching Hillary, and her surrogates, squirm.

(04-04-2016 09:32 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(04-04-2016 09:07 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(04-04-2016 09:04 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(04-03-2016 03:44 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  She acknowledges the unborn baby is a ‘person’, yet says it has no constitutional rights.

If a pregnant woman is murdered, does the murdered get charged with one death or two? Serious question as I don't know the answer. Anyone?

It depends on the state but there are cases where there were two charges of murder. I can never get my head around this as it would be ok for the mother to murder her own unborn child (via abortion) but if its life is taken in a murder, car accident, etc then it is murder or manslaughter. How can one be murder/manslaughter and the other not even a crime? Legally it is inconsistent with the only difference being whether the baby is wanted or unwanted.

The great paradox, or hypocrisy. Same thing.

It's really a comment on the generation that fought for the right to kill their children, the Baby Boomers. For them it has and always will be about me, mine, what I want and my rights. If I want the child and something happens to it it's murder, if I don't want it I can get rid of it. It's all about me and what I want.

(04-04-2016 09:38 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(04-04-2016 09:26 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(04-04-2016 09:11 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(04-04-2016 09:04 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  She's right. Only American citizens have Constitutional Rights. To be an American citizen you have to be either born in America or naturalized.

what about the born alive botched abortion babies that have been left to die by abortion doctors and nurses? they were born alive, living breathing and left to die all because they survived an attempted abortion. where were their constitutional rights?

I wouldn't equate murder and being left to die. People are left to die every day. I'm not a lawyer though.

I get that they might not be charged with murder for leaving a baby to die, my question is "shouldn't a baby that survives an abortion alive have a Constitutional Right to care instead of being left to die? If birth is the threshold for personhood and rights then those babies deserved care to save their lives.

If that same baby was born in a hospital, neo-natal docs and nurses move hell and high water to save that baby.

The only difference in the two scenarios is one baby was wanted and the other unwanted.

If "wantedness" for a living person is the key component to gaining Rights, then if it is ok to allow a baby to die because it isn't wanted, we could argue that legally we would be justified to leave the elderly, handicapped to die if they aren't wanted.

Yes. I would agree with you.

In many states, the verbiage is fairly straightforward.... Any intentional actions that cause an unwanted termination of a pregnancy CAN be prosecuted as murder.

Also, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unborn_Vic...olence_Act

The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 (Public Law 108-212) is a United States law which recognizes a child in utero as a legal victim, if they are injured or killed during the commission of any of over 60 listed federal crimes of violence. The law defines "child in utero" as "a member of the species Homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb".[1]


These are FEDERAL crimes...

If they can be victims, then they have rights.

A child in utero, at any stage of development.

Hillary is flat out wrong.

(04-04-2016 10:50 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  In many states, the verbiage is fairly straightforward.... Any intentional actions that cause an unwanted termination of a pregnancy CAN be prosecuted as murder.

Also, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unborn_Vic...olence_Act

The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 (Public Law 108-212) is a United States law which recognizes a child in utero as a legal victim, if they are injured or killed during the commission of any of over 60 listed federal crimes of violence. The law defines "child in utero" as "a member of the species Homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb".[1]


These are FEDERAL crimes...

If they can be victims, then they have rights.

A child in utero, at any stage of development.

Hillary is flat out wrong.

She runs afoul of PP is she admits the unborn have any rights. Heck she runs afoul of PP if she even calls them "persons." It's sick the mental gymnastics the left goes through to justify killing.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016...titutiona/

I'm not so worried about the abortion argument. Abortion has a place and is a major tool in controlling societal decline and crime.

How does abortion control societal decline and crime?

(04-04-2016 11:25 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  How does abortion control societal decline and crime?

Freakonomics

(04-04-2016 11:25 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  How does abortion control societal decline and crime?

Weeding out potential criminals? I dunno. At the same time we could be weeding out the next Einstein, etc.

In addition to being a horrible person and a liar....she is also a poor Constitutional lawyer. She is totally wrong on this.