(04-01-2016 10:59 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 09:23 PM)Jayesseagle Wrote:  Which UH team was better...2011 or 2015 ? Both were great, and even though we did beat ya'll in the CUSA champ game, ya'll probably were the better overall team that year.

2011, undoubtedly, but everything that could go wrong did go wrong against Southern Miss. The 2015 team was good but they probably overachieved. The best thing that happened last season was Greg Ward getting knocked out against Memphis because they had him bottled up and contained and were up 20. They had no tape on Postma and he delivered the comeback of a lifetime. The past couple seasons, Ward's scrambling has hid some serious flaws the team has had.

Case Keenum>Greg Ward

Fun comparison. 2015 team had a better balanced offense. 2011 team had a much better passing attack and some great running back talent. Both defenses forced over 30 turnovers and yielded about the same number of points and yards per game. Since the 2015 schedule was harder, I give the edge to the 2015 defense.

Going by final power ratings, Sagarin would have favored the 2011 team by 2 or 3 points on a neutral field.

Going by rankings, Houston finished 8th in both polls in 2015 and 14th/18th in 2011. The 2015 team just accomplished more -- that's why it was ranked higher. Four wins over ranked teams. Conference title. The 2015 road win over 8-5 Louisville was more impressive than the 2011 home win over 6-8 UCLA.

Keenum is the NCAA all-time passing yards and passing TD leader. 32-8 in his last 40 starts at Houston. He's now a starter in the NFL. He won some big games and led a lot of comebacks, but he also got off to a lot of slow starts and failed to deliver in the clutch several times (e.g., two CUSA title games). 2011 QBR was 80.1.

Greg Ward just wins games. 19-2 as a starter (and Postma gets a huge save in one of those wins). 2015 QBR was 80.2.

(04-02-2016 01:37 PM)Jayesseagle Wrote:  49-28 was the score!

I think several things came into play.

1. With Keenum, Houston was riding an 18-game home win streak.
2. Houston had racked up 7 blowout wins in a row.
3. Southern Miss lost to UAB in late November two weeks after Houston had beat UAB by 43 points.
4. Houston was favored by 13

I think UH was overconfident going into the game.

Then, the day before the game, the top headline on the Chronicle sports page was

"A&M Fires Sherman, Sets Sights on UH's Sumlin"

So on top of any overconfidence which may have impacted the preparation, now the UH players had a huge distraction that the whole city was talking about.

Credit to Southern Miss. They took full advantage of the opportunity presented to them.

Fellow Coogs -- stop making excuses for 2011. An unexplainable loss when all of the marbles are on the line is the UH calling card.

Oh and Eff Southern Miss. I hope they never win another game. In any sport.

(04-02-2016 02:05 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(04-02-2016 01:37 PM)Jayesseagle Wrote:  49-28 was the score!

I think several things came into play.

1. With Keenum, Houston was riding an 18-game home win streak.
2. Houston had racked up 7 blowout wins in a row.
3. Southern Miss lost to UAB in late November two weeks after Houston had beat UAB by 43 points.
4. Houston was favored by 13

I think UH was overconfident going into the game.

Then, the day before the game, the top headline on the Chronicle sports page was

"A&M Fires Sherman, Sets Sights on UH's Sumlin"

So on top of any overconfidence which may have impacted the preparation, now the UH players had a huge distraction that the whole city was talking about.

Credit to Southern Miss. They took full advantage of the opportunity presented to them.

Yes, I agree that UH slightly overlooked USM because everyone already predetermined that UH was gonna roll over USM before that game even started. So, yea...UH overlooked USM...but we here in Hattiesburg had the same things flying about Fedora...his name was seriously considered for the A&M job, in which he wanted very bad...and also with the UNC job, which he took when A&M let him know they were taking Sumlin. So, we were going though the exact same mind games before the game as the Cougars...our players had the same thoughts about our head coach. And I truly believe, A&M chose the wrong guy and I'm not saying that because Fedora was from USM, but Fedora is proving himself. Would he have done better at A&M and the SEC that Sumlin, who knows..but I really think he would have.

Looking back, Southern Miss beat 5-7 UCF by 1 at home on Nov 12, 2011 and then lost at 3-9 UAB on Nov 17, 2011.

I suspect the Fedora rumors played a role in those performances. But Fedora got everybody's head right after the UAB game for Senior Day on Nov 26 (a blowout win vs Memphis) and it obviously wasn't much of a distraction to the team during the title game proper.

(04-02-2016 01:37 PM)Jayesseagle Wrote:  

(04-02-2016 01:30 PM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(04-02-2016 12:59 PM)Jayesseagle Wrote:  

(04-02-2016 12:05 PM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(04-02-2016 10:47 AM)pesik Wrote:  im not sure what he is saying ...but sumlin was interviewing for the A&M job the week of preparation and according to players/staff it was obvious and created a rift and distractions

according to our billionaire donor that's why it was of "the utmost importance" to have the Herman deal done before the CCG..(when all the rumors came about)

no one thinks he threw the game on purpose..most of us think he didnt prepare the team and was focused on getting a new job and that caused issues

he left UH literally 2 days after the loss

Well according to case Keenum a&m had told Sumlin they didn't want uh playing in a bcs bowl. So to avoid that Sumlin refused to show up to any team meetings in the two weeks leading up to the game or even talk about a game plan.

Keenum said on the day before the game Sumlin finally showed up, and when he confronted Sumlin the argument got so heated they had to be separated.

There is always an excuse

The fact remains though if Sumlin wasn't purposely sabotaging the game we win. I don't even think s. miss stands a chance if we were actually prepared.

49-28 was the score! I'm not bashing Houston at all because they were terrific that year..but Fedora was the better coach that year, and he proved it. Of course, anybody that loses always has an excuse, but just because Sumlin was in negotiations with A&M wasn't anymore that Fedora being in negotiations with UNC on the other side of the football field.

1) larry edora stayed through your bowl game..and was commited to USM through and through till the season was over...after beating UH he was lobbying to get usm into bcs game hard, and gave them hawaii bowl as a reward to his players...over a better "fan/opponent" bowl
sumlin literally left 2 days after the loss..

im not sure i buy that sumlin threw the game, or the keenum would say anything bad about sumlin...keenum/sumlin are still extremely close and mention each other often on twitter...but all our staff, donors and players did say that they werent even preparing for usm (probably assuming a easy win) and were more worried about sumlin leaving

also "Who are you talking about taking shots at Houston??" was referencing C2 not you..most of his post speak of houston is negative light despite being a "fan"..

and funny enough i had a debate with your beat writer on twitter 2 years ago, it was heated...it was about who was the better team in 2011 and had the better season

he said usm was better and had the better season...i said uh had the better team ad the better season..his obvious argument was head to head results...mine was that teams get upset all the time, but we finished ranked higher and our only loss was to a ranked usm team (a respectable loss) and usm lost to a horrific uab team (not acceptable)

(04-02-2016 11:06 AM)pesik Wrote:  why do you always take shots a houston...its like a common trend for you
ps ward has come back from 20+ point deficits before..it wasnt down 20 in the 4th when he was out, it was down 20 mid second (on a drive he was moving the ball)..(ward had similar "early-game" struggles vs smu and ucf but won those game by 30-40 points)

but like i said in the UH forum..the 2015 team has a dramatically better defense, the 2011 team had a way better offense....
i dont know who would win but neither is undoubtedly better

Wow, you told me...except that I know exactly when Ward went out and it was down 20-0 in the second quarter. The offense was looking atrocious and that's because Memphis had Ward scouted. They contained him in the pocket and it was looking like a blowout until Postma came in and changed the pace. UM regained their full advantage but he still pulled through in part because they had no tape on him.

As I said, Ward's scrambling and athleticism hid some serious flaws on UH's offense the last two years. Imagine if Levine never switches to him last year, instead of nearly saving his job, it's possible UH finishes with 2-4 wins. The '11 team was a veteran laden team that came unglued at exactly the wrong time.

(04-02-2016 11:12 AM)Jayesseagle Wrote:  Who are you talking about taking shots at Houston??

He's talking about me taking shots at UH because I choose the 2011 team over the 2015 team. What a joke. Both are affiliated with UH. He's just biased against me and wants to think of me as a troll, so he'll find anything he can.

(04-02-2016 01:21 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 06:51 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  And I'm not April Foolin'...

You don't say what year. With 45 Levine recruits still on the roster, it would be a miracle if it happened this year.

Okay, fine next year since you and Pesik are 100% sure I'm just trolling. Ward will be tough to replace so even with an upgrade in overall talent, unless we get the QB of the future right after, a title won't be a solid bet.

(04-02-2016 05:34 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(04-02-2016 11:06 AM)pesik Wrote:  why do you always take shots a houston...its like a common trend for you
ps ward has come back from 20+ point deficits before..it wasnt down 20 in the 4th when he was out, it was down 20 mid second (on a drive he was moving the ball)..(ward had similar "early-game" struggles vs smu and ucf but won those game by 30-40 points)

but like i said in the UH forum..the 2015 team has a dramatically better defense, the 2011 team had a way better offense....
i dont know who would win but neither is undoubtedly better

Wow, you told me...except that I know exactly when Ward went out and it was down 20-0 in the second quarter. The offense was looking atrocious and that's because Memphis had Ward scouted. They contained him in the pocket and it was looking like a blowout until Postma came in and changed the pace. UM regained their full advantage but he still pulled through in part because they had no tape on him.

As I said, Ward's scrambling and athleticism hid some serious flaws on UH's offense the last two years. Imagine if Levine never switches to him last year, instead of nearly saving his job, it's possible UH finishes with 2-4 wins. The '11 team was a veteran laden team that came unglued at exactly the wrong time.

(04-02-2016 11:12 AM)Jayesseagle Wrote:  Who are you talking about taking shots at Houston??

He's talking about me taking shots at UH because I choose the 2011 team over the 2015 team. What a joke. Both are affiliated with UH. He's just biased against me and wants to think of me as a troll, so he'll find anything he can.

(04-02-2016 01:21 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 06:51 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  And I'm not April Foolin'...

You don't say what year. With 45 Levine recruits still on the roster, it would be a miracle if it happened this year.

Okay, fine next year since you and Pesik are 100% sure I'm just trolling. Ward will be tough to replace so even with an upgrade in overall talent, unless we get the QB of the future right after, a title won't be a solid bet.

You realize kyle postma is still a part of the 2015 team. Do you think if case gets hurt that David Piland could come in and beat memphis down 20? He couldn't beat texas state so I highly doubt it lol.

I honestly can't see a way that the 2011 team is better than the 2015 team.

The 2011 team had the best passing offense I have ever witnessed. However those offenses often fail when the weather affects the game and quarterbacks and receivers have bad days. Likewise top level teams with good secondaries that immediately stuff the receivers can cause problems.

Watching the 2015 team you just never felt like you really knew how good they were. It wasn't the offensive domination that the 2011 team routinely provided. However the 2015 team was more physical, had the better defense and an offense that could still produce even when things weren't perfect. I'd also say overall the coaching staff was better.

In a nutshell I'd say the 2015 team was the type of team that was capable of winning championships while the 2011 team was capable of producing mind blowing stats. I think the 2015 team would have found a way to win the majority of any head to head match ups.

(04-02-2016 05:34 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  He's talking about me taking shots at UH because I choose the 2011 team over the 2015 team. What a joke. Both are affiliated with UH. He's just biased against me and wants to think of me as a troll, so he'll find anything he can.

im not saying you are taking shots because "you choose the 2011 team over the 2015 team"...more about how you are portraying our success was some kind of luck, we had deficiency but we didnt overachieve...id take UH over anyone on our schedule in a rematch

and you didnt respond to how The offense was looking atrocious at literally the exact same points in the UCF and SMU game

we had zero offensive tds till extremely late in second quarter vs ucf ....we finished the game 59-10...smu was handling us early till extremey late second quarter, we beat them by 21 and we gave them mercy

we had a total of 1 good drive vs Louisville in the first quarter (6 were punts or turnover on downs)..ward scored a td on his last 3 drives to win

memphis had horrible defense, Louisville was a better defense than memphis...im not saying we win, im not a psychic so i wont say we would have won but ward would have definitely made it a game

and IMO ward only struggled early because they tried to keep him in the pocket..and they had postma roll out..the oline was getting beat...it was about adjustment not change in qb

(04-02-2016 06:18 PM)quintas Wrote:  The 2011 team had the best passing offense I have ever witnessed. However those offenses often fail when the weather affects the game and quarterbacks and receivers have bad days. Likewise top level teams with good secondaries that immediately stuff the receivers can cause problems.

Watching the 2015 team you just never felt like you really knew how good they were. It wasn't the offensive domination that the 2011 team routinely provided. However the 2015 team was more physical, had the better defense and an offense that could still produce even when things weren't perfect. I'd also say overall the coaching staff was better.

In a nutshell I'd say the 2015 team was the type of team that was capable of winning championships while the 2011 team was capable of producing mind blowing stats. I think the 2015 team would have found a way to win the majority of any head to head match ups.

I still say the 2015 team overachieved. The 2011 team lost the wrong game. The 2015 team won the right games and lost the right one if any (UConn was the most meaningless game of November).

(04-02-2016 07:24 PM)pesik Wrote:  i not sying you are taking shots because "you choose the 2011 team over the 2015 team"...more about how you are portraying our success was some kind of luck,we had deficiency but we did overachieve...id take uh over anyone on our schedule in a rematch

I'd take Memphis in a rematch, especially if the game was on the road. Otherwise, the results stay mostly the same, although I'd take UH over UConn, especially if Ward is healthy.

As for some of the games, I was extremely concerned about the SMU game in the second quarter. The tide turned when they started shooting themselves in the foot but they were outplaying UH for much of the first half.

UCF just didn't have last year and eventually was going to fold and I still say they lost to Memphis if Ward stayed in. The crowd was taken out of the game and the offense was stalled. It looked ugly.

Finally, I didn't watch any of the Louisville game. I couldn't find it on TV.

(04-02-2016 07:40 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(04-02-2016 06:18 PM)quintas Wrote:  The 2011 team had the best passing offense I have ever witnessed. However those offenses often fail when the weather affects the game and quarterbacks and receivers have bad days. Likewise top level teams with good secondaries that immediately stuff the receivers can cause problems.

Watching the 2015 team you just never felt like you really knew how good they were. It wasn't the offensive domination that the 2011 team routinely provided. However the 2015 team was more physical, had the better defense and an offense that could still produce even when things weren't perfect. I'd also say overall the coaching staff was better.

In a nutshell I'd say the 2015 team was the type of team that was capable of winning championships while the 2011 team was capable of producing mind blowing stats. I think the 2015 team would have found a way to win the majority of any head to head match ups.

I still say the 2015 team overachieved. The 2011 lost the wrong game. The 2015 team won the right games and lost the right one if any (UConn was the most meaningless game of November)

(04-02-2016 07:24 PM)pesik Wrote:  i not sying you are taking shots because "you choose the 2011 team over the 2015 team"...more about how you are portraying our success was some kind of luck,we had deficiency but we did overachieve...id take uh over anyone on our schedule in a rematch

I'd take Memphis in a rematch, especially if the game was on the road. Otherwise, the results stay mostly the same, although I'd take UH over UConn, especially if Ward is healthy.

memphis was all qb..there defense was horrible all season....we have a good secondary...

id take houston over memphis in a rematch...without hesitation...you are putting weight that a horrible defense would somehow hold a top 15 national offense for a second time..we already figured them out by mid game....

please watch the replay, we only struggled early becuase we kept ward in the pocket and the oline was getting killed...at the end of the first quarter Warehime(our oline coach) called an emergency mid game meeting and you can see him screaming at all of them for getting beat so bad and the tv announcers noticed at the end of the 1st quarter ..

applewhite adjusted to have postma just rollout instead of staying in the pocket the second half....ward has better feet than postma

(04-02-2016 03:38 PM)pesik Wrote:  also "Who are you talking about taking shots at Houston??" was referencing C2 not you..most of his post speak of houston is negative light despite being a "fan"..

You called me out in this thread for saying one UH team was better than the other UH team.

I've pointed out facts in the past, like pointing out, despite the score, how they weren't playing very well in the Tulane game thread and how they weren't playing like a top 25 team and you as well as some other Coog fans got mad and rationalized it as "why are you complaining? they're up 21?" Doesn't change the fact they could have played much better.

You said in a thread soon after that [sic] that UH was drawing to capacity in the final years of Robertson and when I rebutted that it wasn't true mostly, you attacked me and started calling me a troll.

But W/E, it's better we both hope that the title of my thread is true. If it happens we can both throw up our hands in triumph and bury the hatchet.

(04-02-2016 08:00 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(04-02-2016 03:38 PM)pesik Wrote:  also "Who are you talking about taking shots at Houston??" was referencing C2 not you..most of his post speak of houston is negative light despite being a "fan"..

You called me out in this thread for saying one UH team was better than the other UH team.

I've pointed out facts in the past, like pointing out, despite the score, how they weren't playing very well in the Tulane game thread and how they weren't playing like a top 25 team and you as well as some other Coog fans got mad and rationalized it as "why are you complaining? they're up 21?" Doesn't change the fact they could have played much better.

You said in a thread soon after that [sic] that UH was drawing to capacity in the final years of Robertson and when I rebutted that it wasn't true mostly, you attacked me and started calling me a troll.

But W/E, it's better we both hope that the title of my thread is true. If it happens we can both throw up our hands in triumph and bury the hatchet.

ive clarified this already

"You called me out in this thread for saying one UH team was better than the other UH team."
Stop making things up....i already said this had nothing to do with it

i called you out for you backhand comments you constantly make about UH...in this specific thread..i didnt call you out for picking the 2011 team, i called you out because in your reasoning you insinuated hat our success was pure luck....

Last year wasn't pure luck but they also needed plenty of breaks to go their way. Memphis should have won that game, if for no other reason than that last seond field goal. Well they didn't so who cares right but last year's team didn't have to do as well as it did.

We were comparing the teams and how good they were, someone asked "which one was better?" So of course I'm gonna say stuff like Keenum>Ward and that Ward's scrambling has hid dome flaws of the offense (and admit it, it's very true, the team would have racked up way more losses the last two years without Ward, especially in 2014).

C2 just take a break man. Just take a break.

(04-02-2016 08:17 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Last year wasn't pure luck but they also needed plenty of breaks to go their way. Memphis should have won that game, if for no other reason than that last seond field goal. Well they didn't so who cares right but last year's team didn't have to do as well as it did.

We were comparing the teams and how good they were, someone asked "which one was better?" So of course I'm gonna say stuff like Keenum>Ward and that Ward's scrambling has hid dome flaws of the offense (and admit it, it's very true, the team would have racked up way more losses the last two years without Ward, especially in 2014).

Well im pretty sure without keenum that 2011 team only wins 6 games. Without ward the 2015 team still wins 8 or 9 games and thats all there is to it.

(04-02-2016 09:40 PM)vcoog Wrote:  C2 just take a break man. Just take a break.

People see the team I root for and automatically assume that means I have to be a homer. On CSNBBS, I talk just as much about sports in general as I do UH athletics but coming into this environment, it's harder to understand. I'm not a homer and never will be except in select circumstances (purposeful misrepresentation of facts, outright disrespect, all out smack talk, etc...)