(04-01-2016 12:29 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:25 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:23 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:17 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:15 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  "Bribery, so what?" -HeartOfDixie

I wish I lived in a bubble of naïveté like you.

Sorry for expecting corporations and people to act ethically.

Companies do what is allowed. Bribery, in some parts of the world is tolerated and even expected.

And we should tolerate it why?

The point is that various levels of bribery are tolerated in foreign countries. We cannot control that. However, my biggest concern is whether the amount of bribery that occurs on our soil is at this level. Sadly, I expect that we would fine a lot of corruption if we peeled that onion.

Political donations are the primary currency of graft in our system today - especially when our esteemed politicians have their own PACs or "Libraries"...

(04-01-2016 12:21 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:11 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  We need to ditch the FCPA and just allow us to use money to operate in the developing world.

Believe it or not the Chinese, and even a lot of Europeans, have no problem doing it.

FCPA does nothing but tie one hand behind our back.

I wouldn't even call this a scandal. So what?

I was working for Price Waterhouse in 1977 when the FCPA went into effect and our clients who did business overseas were going nuts. In those days, bribing officials in countries like Italy, was a generally accepted practice. It's not surprising that to do any business in the third world today, bribery is necessary.

A couple of days ago there was a thread on our negative trade balance. I dare say that the FCPA has been a big block for US companies trying to do export business.

But bribery seems so harsh. I prefer Market Development Expenses.

It's catastrophic for Americans wanting to operate in the developing world.

(04-01-2016 12:31 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:30 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:29 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:28 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:27 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  God, you must live in a depressing world.

Yep, it's called reality for most of us.

Slammed!

Now I understand why people say we're morally bankrupt.

It must feel so good to sit there and pretend to hold the moral high ground but in truth the only ground you've successfully seized is that of the woefully ignorant.

Ignorant of what? the way business works?

There are so many nations across the world that have laws which essentially force US companies to skirt the line of FCPA violations, depending on your definition of corrupt.

In EG we call it Decree Law 127, local partner.

To do business in a certain country you must have a local parter who gets at least a certain percentage. Guess who that local partner often is?

(04-01-2016 12:29 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:25 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:23 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:17 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:15 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  "Bribery, so what?" -HeartOfDixie

I wish I lived in a bubble of naïveté like you.

Sorry for expecting corporations and people to act ethically.

Companies do what is allowed. Bribery, in some parts of the world is tolerated and even expected.

And we should tolerate it why?

So thousands upon thousands of folks can stay employed? Look I'm not saying it's ethically correct, but you are enforcing America's ethics on other sovereign nations that have included bribery as a way of doing business for centuries. It's the price to pay if one wants to do business in x country.

(04-01-2016 12:33 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:31 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:30 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:29 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:28 PM)VA49er Wrote:  Yep, it's called reality for most of us.

Slammed!

Now I understand why people say we're morally bankrupt.

It must feel so good to sit there and pretend to hold the moral high ground but in truth the only ground you've successfully seized is that of the woefully ignorant.

Ignorant of what? the way business works?

You must not have traveled very far beyond Idaho, much less the US, and never doing so when competing against the rest of the world.

You're naive. It's as simple as that. It makes your posturings that much more pathetic to many of us. Hell, you got Question and I to agree and that says a lot.

(04-01-2016 12:36 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:33 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:31 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:30 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:29 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Slammed!

Now I understand why people say we're morally bankrupt.

It must feel so good to sit there and pretend to hold the moral high ground but in truth the only ground you've successfully seized is that of the woefully ignorant.

Ignorant of what? the way business works?

You must not have traveled very far beyond Idaho, much less the US, and never doing so when competing against the rest of the world.

You're naive. It's as simple as that. It makes your posturings that much more pathetic to many of us. Hell, you got Question and I to agree and that says a lot.

"you're naive, simple as that". You already said that. Why don't you try explaining what I'm naive about.

(04-01-2016 12:43 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:36 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:33 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:31 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:30 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  Now I understand why people say we're morally bankrupt.

It must feel so good to sit there and pretend to hold the moral high ground but in truth the only ground you've successfully seized is that of the woefully ignorant.

Ignorant of what? the way business works?

You must not have traveled very far beyond Idaho, much less the US, and never doing so when competing against the rest of the world.

You're naive. It's as simple as that. It makes your posturings that much more pathetic to many of us. Hell, you got Question and I to agree and that says a lot.

"you're naive, simple as that". You already said that. Why don't you try explaining what I'm naive about.

Why do we need an explanation when you've done such a wonderful job demonstrating?

(04-01-2016 12:43 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:36 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:33 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:31 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:30 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  Now I understand why people say we're morally bankrupt.

It must feel so good to sit there and pretend to hold the moral high ground but in truth the only ground you've successfully seized is that of the woefully ignorant.

Ignorant of what? the way business works?

You must not have traveled very far beyond Idaho, much less the US, and never doing so when competing against the rest of the world.

You're naive. It's as simple as that. It makes your posturings that much more pathetic to many of us. Hell, you got Question and I to agree and that says a lot.

"you're naive, simple as that". You already said that. Why don't you try explaining what I'm naive about.

Reality when it comes to international business.

It's also probably worth discussing this nebulous idea of what constitutes bribery.

If you think US companies are showing up with bags full of cash, like everybody else, you are kidding yourself.

(04-01-2016 12:45 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:43 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:36 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:33 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:31 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It must feel so good to sit there and pretend to hold the moral high ground but in truth the only ground you've successfully seized is that of the woefully ignorant.

Ignorant of what? the way business works?

You must not have traveled very far beyond Idaho, much less the US, and never doing so when competing against the rest of the world.

You're naive. It's as simple as that. It makes your posturings that much more pathetic to many of us. Hell, you got Question and I to agree and that says a lot.

"you're naive, simple as that". You already said that. Why don't you try explaining what I'm naive about.

Reality when it comes to international business.

"That's just how it is" is not justification and it shouldn't be considered ignorant to think that.

(04-01-2016 12:47 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:45 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:43 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:36 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:33 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  Ignorant of what? the way business works?

You must not have traveled very far beyond Idaho, much less the US, and never doing so when competing against the rest of the world.

You're naive. It's as simple as that. It makes your posturings that much more pathetic to many of us. Hell, you got Question and I to agree and that says a lot.

"you're naive, simple as that". You already said that. Why don't you try explaining what I'm naive about.

Reality when it comes to international business.

"That's just how it is" is not justification and it shouldn't be considered ignorant to think that.

Ignorance in this context is the difference between "think" and know.

(04-01-2016 12:47 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:45 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:43 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:36 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:33 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  Ignorant of what? the way business works?

You must not have traveled very far beyond Idaho, much less the US, and never doing so when competing against the rest of the world.

You're naive. It's as simple as that. It makes your posturings that much more pathetic to many of us. Hell, you got Question and I to agree and that says a lot.

"you're naive, simple as that". You already said that. Why don't you try explaining what I'm naive about.

Reality when it comes to international business.

"That's just how it is" is not justification and it shouldn't be considered ignorant to think that.

To be honest, it's evident most nations do not care that you think it's not justification. A company that wants to play on the international stage just has to accept it as the price of admission and a cost of doing business. They don't have to of course, but then again they may not perform as well in the long run.

(04-01-2016 12:48 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:47 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:45 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:43 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:36 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  You must not have traveled very far beyond Idaho, much less the US, and never doing so when competing against the rest of the world.

You're naive. It's as simple as that. It makes your posturings that much more pathetic to many of us. Hell, you got Question and I to agree and that says a lot.

"you're naive, simple as that". You already said that. Why don't you try explaining what I'm naive about.

Reality when it comes to international business.

"That's just how it is" is not justification and it shouldn't be considered ignorant to think that.

Ignorance in this context is the difference between "think" and know.

We're talking about right and wrong, so it's pretty much all "think".

(04-01-2016 12:32 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:30 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:29 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:28 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:27 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  God, you must live in a depressing world.

Yep, it's called reality for most of us.

Slammed!

Now I understand why people say we're morally bankrupt.

Take that up with hundreds of govt's around the world.

It wasn't Americans getting bribed to break Iraq's oil embargo. It was top government and business officials in France, Germany and Russia. England and America don't have as corrupt a culture as most of the rest of the world. That's why we have FCPA. It does handcuff our companies to some extent.

(04-01-2016 01:01 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:32 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:30 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:29 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:28 PM)VA49er Wrote:  Yep, it's called reality for most of us.

Slammed!

Now I understand why people say we're morally bankrupt.

Take that up with hundreds of govt's around the world.

It wasn't Americans getting bribed to break Iraq's oil embargo. It was top government and business officials in France, Germany and Russia. England and America don't have as corrupt a culture as most of the rest of the world. That's why we have FCPA. It does handcuff our companies to some extent.

Because we felt that holding ourselves to a higher standard was more important than the bottom line. Judging by the reaction of the UK, Monaco, and Australia, we aren't alone in that opinion.

Quote:To be honest, it's evident most nations do not care that you think it's not justification. A company that wants to play on the international stage just has to accept it as the price of admission and a cost of doing business. They don't have to of course, but then again they may not perform as well in the long run.

Bribery is obviously common in developing countries. So are many other things we think are backwards, barbaric, or even evil. How far do we lower our standards to make an extra buck?

(04-01-2016 01:22 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 01:01 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:32 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:30 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:29 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Slammed!

Now I understand why people say we're morally bankrupt.

Take that up with hundreds of govt's around the world.

It wasn't Americans getting bribed to break Iraq's oil embargo. It was top government and business officials in France, Germany and Russia. England and America don't have as corrupt a culture as most of the rest of the world. That's why we have FCPA. It does handcuff our companies to some extent.

Because we felt that holding ourselves to a higher standard was more important than the bottom line. Judging by the reaction of the UK, Monaco, and Australia, we aren't alone in that opinion.

Quote:To be honest, it's evident most nations do not care that you think it's not justification. A company that wants to play on the international stage just has to accept it as the price of admission and a cost of doing business. They don't have to of course, but then again they may not perform as well in the long run.

Bribery is obviously common in developing countries. So are many other things we think are backwards, barbaric, or even evil. How far do we lower our standards to make an extra buck?

I thought that we were supposed to respect other cultures?

(04-01-2016 12:47 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:45 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:43 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:36 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 12:33 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  Ignorant of what? the way business works?

You must not have traveled very far beyond Idaho, much less the US, and never doing so when competing against the rest of the world.

You're naive. It's as simple as that. It makes your posturings that much more pathetic to many of us. Hell, you got Question and I to agree and that says a lot.

"you're naive, simple as that". You already said that. Why don't you try explaining what I'm naive about.

Reality when it comes to international business.

"That's just how it is" is not justification and it shouldn't be considered ignorant to think that.

Well, the alternative in many cases means that the US Company NEVER gets the deal and the other foreign company always gets the deal. US workers have no work. US economy goes in the tank.

You can eat your next meal of forcing our ethical standards upon the rest of the world........while the rest of the world tells you to p!ss up a rope.

Naïveté at work here!

(04-01-2016 12:09 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  Why has the Mainstream HuffHuffPuff media been quiet on this?

Quote:According to tens of thousands of internal Unaoil emails and documents seen by the Huffington Post

HuffHuffPuff has seen Hillaries too. I'll substitute them in the question you started with.