(03-28-2016 10:47 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(03-28-2016 07:28 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Football is not far away:

Tier One Teams
FSU
Clemson
Notre Dame, if a full member

Tier Two Teams
Louisville
Miami
North Carolina
Virginia Tech

Tier Three Teams
Duke
George Tech
North Carolina State
Pitt
Syracuse
Virginia

Needs Work Teams
Boston College
Wake Forest

I'm hoping you're saying this is what it should be, not what it is, right? Because you've got a lot of teams slotted well above what they've actually performed as.

1st: Compete for national titles. They expect a NY6 Bowl every year. Alabama, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Oregon. I have no problem with ranking FSU and Clemson here.

2nd: Expect 9-10 wins every year. Get national press on a regular basis, threaten a title run or top ten season fairly regularly. Stanford, Michigan State, TCU, Baylor, UCLA, Wisconsin, South Carolina until just recently. The ACC has NOBODY in this tier right now, although I wouldn't put up a huge fight if you said Duke was on the border. VT hasn't been here in half a decade, Miami hasn't had one session like this since joining, UNC just had their first season of this caliber since Mack Brown, and Louisville hasn't proved this in the ACC yet. This is the weak spot now.

3rd: Bowl game almost every year, once or twice a decade had a season of national note. This is the very definition of GT, along with Iowa, Kansas State, Texas Tech, Missouri. Everyone you have as second tier is in this tier actually, along with most of who you've put here. Except Syracuse and UVA no way being here.

4th: The worst of the P5. Colorado, Washington State, Kansas, Purdue, Indiana. A bowl game is a stretch goal that is celebrated if it is managed every few years, and a three win season doesn't shock anyone. The ACC currently is riding with Wake, Syracuse, BC and Virginia, almost a third of the conference. This is WAY too heavy, especially when its double the teams in the top two tiers combined. The conference can sustain two schools here, no more.

If the ACC can move two schools out of the lowest tier, and have three teams reestablish themselves as tier two, football will be solid. Three of VT, Miami, North Carolina, Duke, Louisville absolutely have to get locked in here, unless a surprise team like Pitt our NCSU or someone can make a big jump.

It is possible, nothing that requires a miracle. But it still requires fair amount of change, and that's without any backsliding. It's far better than the decade the conference spent with no tier one teams and one tier two team in VT, for sure, but that tier two has to get built before FSU and Clemson start facing coaching changes or inevitable down years. Right now, the ACC simply can't absorb FSU or Clemson to hit a Texas/Michigan/Florida type slump, and that's too much of a high wire act.

This! If I knew how to give you Rep points I'd give you some lol. People need to realize that we don't have tier 2 teams. We have a few that are close but they need to be a little more consistent if we want more money. Hopefully Miami will jump with Richt being there. I expect they will be solid two potential one in the next three years.

(04-07-2016 11:34 AM)Ewglenn Wrote:  

(03-28-2016 10:47 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(03-28-2016 07:28 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Football is not far away:

Tier One Teams
FSU
Clemson
Notre Dame, if a full member

Tier Two Teams
Louisville
Miami
North Carolina
Virginia Tech

Tier Three Teams
Duke
George Tech
North Carolina State
Pitt
Syracuse
Virginia

Needs Work Teams
Boston College
Wake Forest

I'm hoping you're saying this is what it should be, not what it is, right? Because you've got a lot of teams slotted well above what they've actually performed as.

1st: Compete for national titles. They expect a NY6 Bowl every year. Alabama, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Oregon. I have no problem with ranking FSU and Clemson here.

2nd: Expect 9-10 wins every year. Get national press on a regular basis, threaten a title run or top ten season fairly regularly. Stanford, Michigan State, TCU, Baylor, UCLA, Wisconsin, South Carolina until just recently. The ACC has NOBODY in this tier right now, although I wouldn't put up a huge fight if you said Duke was on the border. VT hasn't been here in half a decade, Miami hasn't had one session like this since joining, UNC just had their first season of this caliber since Mack Brown, and Louisville hasn't proved this in the ACC yet. This is the weak spot now.

3rd: Bowl game almost every year, once or twice a decade had a season of national note. This is the very definition of GT, along with Iowa, Kansas State, Texas Tech, Missouri. Everyone you have as second tier is in this tier actually, along with most of who you've put here. Except Syracuse and UVA no way being here.

4th: The worst of the P5. Colorado, Washington State, Kansas, Purdue, Indiana. A bowl game is a stretch goal that is celebrated if it is managed every few years, and a three win season doesn't shock anyone. The ACC currently is riding with Wake, Syracuse, BC and Virginia, almost a third of the conference. This is WAY too heavy, especially when its double the teams in the top two tiers combined. The conference can sustain two schools here, no more.

If the ACC can move two schools out of the lowest tier, and have three teams reestablish themselves as tier two, football will be solid. Three of VT, Miami, North Carolina, Duke, Louisville absolutely have to get locked in here, unless a surprise team like Pitt our NCSU or someone can make a big jump.

It is possible, nothing that requires a miracle. But it still requires fair amount of change, and that's without any backsliding. It's far better than the decade the conference spent with no tier one teams and one tier two team in VT, for sure, but that tier two has to get built before FSU and Clemson start facing coaching changes or inevitable down years. Right now, the ACC simply can't absorb FSU or Clemson to hit a Texas/Michigan/Florida type slump, and that's too much of a high wire act.

This! If I knew how to give you Rep points I'd give you some lol. People need to realize that we don't have tier 2 teams. We have a few that are close but they need to be a little more consistent if we want more money. Hopefully Miami will jump with Richt being there. I expect they will be solid two potential one in the next three years.

Here are the 6-year total W/L records of all the current ACC teams:

Florida State: 68-14 (avg 11.33 wins - 2.33 losses)
Clemson: 62-19 (avg 10.33 wins - 3.17 losses)
Louisville: 54-24 (avg 9.00 wins - 4.00 losses)
Virginia Tech: 51-29 (avg 8.50 wins - 4.83 losses)
North Carolina: 47-31 (avg 7.83 wins - 5.17 losses)
Miami: 43-33 (avg 7.17 wins - 5.50 losses)
North Carolina State: 42-35 (avg 7.00 wins - 5.83 losses)
Georgia Tech: 42-37 (avg 7.00 wins - 6.17 losses)
Pitt: 41-37 (avg 6.83 wins - 6.17 losses)
Duke: 39-38 (avg 6.50 wins - 6.33 losses)
Syracuse: 35-40 (avg 5.83 wins - 6.67 losses)
Boston College: 30-45 (avg 5.00 wins - 7.50 losses)
Virginia: 27-46 (avg 4.50 wins - 7.67 losses)
Wake Forest: 24-49 (avg 4.00 wins - 8.17 losses)

I realize this is a little like Apples and Oranges, but to me it is evident there are 4 Tiers and they are:

Tier 1: Florida State and Clemson (combined 130-33; 0.798)
Tier 2: Louisville and Virginia Tech (combined 105-53; 0.665)
Tier 3: North Carolina, Miami, NC State, Georgia Tech, Pitt, and Duke (combined 254-211; 0.546)
Tier 4: Syracuse, BC, Virginia, Wake (combined 116-180; 0.392)

(04-07-2016 11:51 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  

(04-07-2016 11:34 AM)Ewglenn Wrote:  

(03-28-2016 10:47 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(03-28-2016 07:28 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Football is not far away:

Tier One Teams
FSU
Clemson
Notre Dame, if a full member

Tier Two Teams
Louisville
Miami
North Carolina
Virginia Tech

Tier Three Teams
Duke
George Tech
North Carolina State
Pitt
Syracuse
Virginia

Needs Work Teams
Boston College
Wake Forest

I'm hoping you're saying this is what it should be, not what it is, right? Because you've got a lot of teams slotted well above what they've actually performed as.

1st: Compete for national titles. They expect a NY6 Bowl every year. Alabama, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Oregon. I have no problem with ranking FSU and Clemson here.

2nd: Expect 9-10 wins every year. Get national press on a regular basis, threaten a title run or top ten season fairly regularly. Stanford, Michigan State, TCU, Baylor, UCLA, Wisconsin, South Carolina until just recently. The ACC has NOBODY in this tier right now, although I wouldn't put up a huge fight if you said Duke was on the border. VT hasn't been here in half a decade, Miami hasn't had one session like this since joining, UNC just had their first season of this caliber since Mack Brown, and Louisville hasn't proved this in the ACC yet. This is the weak spot now.

3rd: Bowl game almost every year, once or twice a decade had a season of national note. This is the very definition of GT, along with Iowa, Kansas State, Texas Tech, Missouri. Everyone you have as second tier is in this tier actually, along with most of who you've put here. Except Syracuse and UVA no way being here.

4th: The worst of the P5. Colorado, Washington State, Kansas, Purdue, Indiana. A bowl game is a stretch goal that is celebrated if it is managed every few years, and a three win season doesn't shock anyone. The ACC currently is riding with Wake, Syracuse, BC and Virginia, almost a third of the conference. This is WAY too heavy, especially when its double the teams in the top two tiers combined. The conference can sustain two schools here, no more.

If the ACC can move two schools out of the lowest tier, and have three teams reestablish themselves as tier two, football will be solid. Three of VT, Miami, North Carolina, Duke, Louisville absolutely have to get locked in here, unless a surprise team like Pitt our NCSU or someone can make a big jump.

It is possible, nothing that requires a miracle. But it still requires fair amount of change, and that's without any backsliding. It's far better than the decade the conference spent with no tier one teams and one tier two team in VT, for sure, but that tier two has to get built before FSU and Clemson start facing coaching changes or inevitable down years. Right now, the ACC simply can't absorb FSU or Clemson to hit a Texas/Michigan/Florida type slump, and that's too much of a high wire act.

This! If I knew how to give you Rep points I'd give you some lol. People need to realize that we don't have tier 2 teams. We have a few that are close but they need to be a little more consistent if we want more money. Hopefully Miami will jump with Richt being there. I expect they will be solid two potential one in the next three years.

Here are the 6-year total W/L records of all the current ACC teams:

Florida State: 68-14 (avg 11.33 wins - 2.33 losses)
Clemson: 62-19 (avg 10.33 wins - 3.17 losses)
Louisville: 54-24 (avg 9.00 wins - 4.00 losses)
Virginia Tech: 51-29 (avg 8.50 wins - 4.83 losses)
North Carolina: 47-31 (avg 7.83 wins - 5.17 losses)
Miami: 43-33 (avg 7.17 wins - 5.50 losses)
North Carolina State: 42-35 (avg 7.00 wins - 5.83 losses)
Georgia Tech: 42-37 (avg 7.00 wins - 6.17 losses)
Pitt: 41-37 (avg 6.83 wins - 6.17 losses)
Duke: 39-38 (avg 6.50 wins - 6.33 losses)
Syracuse: 35-40 (avg 5.83 wins - 6.67 losses)
Boston College: 30-45 (avg 5.00 wins - 7.50 losses)
Virginia: 27-46 (avg 4.50 wins - 7.67 losses)
Wake Forest: 24-49 (avg 4.00 wins - 8.17 losses)

I realize this is a little like Apples and Oranges, but to me it is evident there are 4 Tiers and they are:

Tier 1: Florida State and Clemson (combined 130-33; 0.798)
Tier 2: Louisville and Virginia Tech (combined 105-53; 0.665)
Tier 3: North Carolina, Miami, NC State, Georgia Tech, Pitt, and Duke (combined 254-211; 0.546)
Tier 4: Syracuse, BC, Virginia, Wake (combined 116-180; 0.392)

The problem with this logic is, when the ACC plays each other in football, somebody HAS to win.

It falls into the trap of fans who believe some lesser teams actually where carry the ACC's weight in football when Clemson and FSU where not good. Winning the ACC didn't equal success in football. It equaled a VACUUM IN THE ACC.


Have these tier 2 teams won BCS games, been to the playoffs, won national titles? Granted if they have done enough of these things, they are tier 1.....but if they have not done any of them...and their argument is just winning percentage. It suggest a symptom of the power vacuum only and a more likely fit in tier 3.

I don't believe this tiering is comparing the ACC to themselves. That is pointless. The ACC is competing against external powers.

(04-07-2016 12:55 PM)nole Wrote:  The problem with this logic is, when the ACC plays each other in football, somebody HAS to win.
...
I don't believe this tiering is comparing the ACC to themselves. That is pointless. The ACC is competing against external powers.

Nole is 100% correct here. The only thing which REALLY matters is the record against non-conference opponents - particularly ranked ones.

(04-07-2016 01:06 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-07-2016 12:55 PM)nole Wrote:  The problem with this logic is, when the ACC plays each other in football, somebody HAS to win.
...
I don't believe this tiering is comparing the ACC to themselves. That is pointless. The ACC is competing against external powers.

Nole is 100% correct here. The only thing which REALLY matters is the record against non-conference opponents - particularly ranked ones.

I agree with this but what I'm saying is in order to get people to notice the ACC there need to be 4-5 that do both.

(04-07-2016 11:51 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  Here are the 6-year total W/L records of all the current ACC teams:

Florida State: 68-14 (avg 11.33 wins - 2.33 losses)
Clemson: 62-19 (avg 10.33 wins - 3.17 losses)
Louisville: 54-24 (avg 9.00 wins - 4.00 losses)
Virginia Tech: 51-29 (avg 8.50 wins - 4.83 losses)
North Carolina: 47-31 (avg 7.83 wins - 5.17 losses)
Miami: 43-33 (avg 7.17 wins - 5.50 losses)
North Carolina State: 42-35 (avg 7.00 wins - 5.83 losses)
Georgia Tech: 42-37 (avg 7.00 wins - 6.17 losses)
Pitt: 41-37 (avg 6.83 wins - 6.17 losses)
Duke: 39-38 (avg 6.50 wins - 6.33 losses)
Syracuse: 35-40 (avg 5.83 wins - 6.67 losses)
Boston College: 30-45 (avg 5.00 wins - 7.50 losses)
Virginia: 27-46 (avg 4.50 wins - 7.67 losses)
Wake Forest: 24-49 (avg 4.00 wins - 8.17 losses)

I realize this is a little like Apples and Oranges, but to me it is evident there are 4 Tiers and they are:

Tier 1: Florida State and Clemson (combined 130-33; 0.798)
Tier 2: Louisville and Virginia Tech (combined 105-53; 0.665)
Tier 3: North Carolina, Miami, NC State, Georgia Tech, Pitt, and Duke (combined 254-211; 0.546)
Tier 4: Syracuse, BC, Virginia, Wake (combined 116-180; 0.392)

The problem with this is the fact that the only two Tier Two schools you list have been trending downward and none of your Tier Three schools have done enough to move them up.

(04-07-2016 01:54 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-07-2016 11:51 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  Here are the 6-year total W/L records of all the current ACC teams:

Florida State: 68-14 (avg 11.33 wins - 2.33 losses)
Clemson: 62-19 (avg 10.33 wins - 3.17 losses)
Louisville: 54-24 (avg 9.00 wins - 4.00 losses)
Virginia Tech: 51-29 (avg 8.50 wins - 4.83 losses)
North Carolina: 47-31 (avg 7.83 wins - 5.17 losses)
Miami: 43-33 (avg 7.17 wins - 5.50 losses)
North Carolina State: 42-35 (avg 7.00 wins - 5.83 losses)
Georgia Tech: 42-37 (avg 7.00 wins - 6.17 losses)
Pitt: 41-37 (avg 6.83 wins - 6.17 losses)
Duke: 39-38 (avg 6.50 wins - 6.33 losses)
Syracuse: 35-40 (avg 5.83 wins - 6.67 losses)
Boston College: 30-45 (avg 5.00 wins - 7.50 losses)
Virginia: 27-46 (avg 4.50 wins - 7.67 losses)
Wake Forest: 24-49 (avg 4.00 wins - 8.17 losses)

I realize this is a little like Apples and Oranges, but to me it is evident there are 4 Tiers and they are:

Tier 1: Florida State and Clemson (combined 130-33; 0.798)
Tier 2: Louisville and Virginia Tech (combined 105-53; 0.665)
Tier 3: North Carolina, Miami, NC State, Georgia Tech, Pitt, and Duke (combined 254-211; 0.546)
Tier 4: Syracuse, BC, Virginia, Wake (combined 116-180; 0.392)

The problem with this is the fact that the only two Tier Two schools you list have been trending downward and none of your Tier Three schools have done enough to move them up.

UNC did alright last year, until the bowl game that is. And to add to this UNC finished out 11-0 but why weren't more people taking them seriously? Because they lost to a terrible South Carolina team to start.

(04-07-2016 02:35 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  UNC did alright last year, until the bowl game that is.

This just in... Baylor just gained another 100 yards on the Tar Heel's rush defense.

(04-07-2016 02:35 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  

(04-07-2016 01:54 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-07-2016 11:51 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  Here are the 6-year total W/L records of all the current ACC teams:

Florida State: 68-14 (avg 11.33 wins - 2.33 losses)
Clemson: 62-19 (avg 10.33 wins - 3.17 losses)
Louisville: 54-24 (avg 9.00 wins - 4.00 losses)
Virginia Tech: 51-29 (avg 8.50 wins - 4.83 losses)
North Carolina: 47-31 (avg 7.83 wins - 5.17 losses)
Miami: 43-33 (avg 7.17 wins - 5.50 losses)
North Carolina State: 42-35 (avg 7.00 wins - 5.83 losses)
Georgia Tech: 42-37 (avg 7.00 wins - 6.17 losses)
Pitt: 41-37 (avg 6.83 wins - 6.17 losses)
Duke: 39-38 (avg 6.50 wins - 6.33 losses)
Syracuse: 35-40 (avg 5.83 wins - 6.67 losses)
Boston College: 30-45 (avg 5.00 wins - 7.50 losses)
Virginia: 27-46 (avg 4.50 wins - 7.67 losses)
Wake Forest: 24-49 (avg 4.00 wins - 8.17 losses)

I realize this is a little like Apples and Oranges, but to me it is evident there are 4 Tiers and they are:

Tier 1: Florida State and Clemson (combined 130-33; 0.798)
Tier 2: Louisville and Virginia Tech (combined 105-53; 0.665)
Tier 3: North Carolina, Miami, NC State, Georgia Tech, Pitt, and Duke (combined 254-211; 0.546)
Tier 4: Syracuse, BC, Virginia, Wake (combined 116-180; 0.392)

The problem with this is the fact that the only two Tier Two schools you list have been trending downward and none of your Tier Three schools have done enough to move them up.

UNC did alright last year, until the bowl game that is. And to add to this UNC finished out 11-0 but why weren't more people taking them seriously? Because they lost to a terrible South Carolina team to start.

Actually agree in a way. What killed UNC was losing horribly OUT OF CONFERENCE (1 to horrible team another was a huge blow out).

In some ways, outside perspective would say 'weak ACC'.

Out of conference wins....more specifically ones that get you titles, BCS bowl wins, or playoff appearances are what you really hang your hat on.

(04-07-2016 02:35 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  

(04-07-2016 01:54 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-07-2016 11:51 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  Here are the 6-year total W/L records of all the current ACC teams:

Florida State: 68-14 (avg 11.33 wins - 2.33 losses)
Clemson: 62-19 (avg 10.33 wins - 3.17 losses)
Louisville: 54-24 (avg 9.00 wins - 4.00 losses)
Virginia Tech: 51-29 (avg 8.50 wins - 4.83 losses)
North Carolina: 47-31 (avg 7.83 wins - 5.17 losses)
Miami: 43-33 (avg 7.17 wins - 5.50 losses)
North Carolina State: 42-35 (avg 7.00 wins - 5.83 losses)
Georgia Tech: 42-37 (avg 7.00 wins - 6.17 losses)
Pitt: 41-37 (avg 6.83 wins - 6.17 losses)
Duke: 39-38 (avg 6.50 wins - 6.33 losses)
Syracuse: 35-40 (avg 5.83 wins - 6.67 losses)
Boston College: 30-45 (avg 5.00 wins - 7.50 losses)
Virginia: 27-46 (avg 4.50 wins - 7.67 losses)
Wake Forest: 24-49 (avg 4.00 wins - 8.17 losses)

I realize this is a little like Apples and Oranges, but to me it is evident there are 4 Tiers and they are:

Tier 1: Florida State and Clemson (combined 130-33; 0.798)
Tier 2: Louisville and Virginia Tech (combined 105-53; 0.665)
Tier 3: North Carolina, Miami, NC State, Georgia Tech, Pitt, and Duke (combined 254-211; 0.546)
Tier 4: Syracuse, BC, Virginia, Wake (combined 116-180; 0.392)

The problem with this is the fact that the only two Tier Two schools you list have been trending downward and none of your Tier Three schools have done enough to move them up.

UNC did alright last year, until the bowl game that is. And to add to this UNC finished out 11-0 but why weren't more people taking them seriously? Because they lost to a terrible South Carolina team to start.

But was it anything more than a one year fluke? They averaged 7 wins the three years prior....who's to say UNC doesn't go back to their typical mediocrity this coming year?

(04-07-2016 03:08 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-07-2016 02:35 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  

(04-07-2016 01:54 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-07-2016 11:51 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  Here are the 6-year total W/L records of all the current ACC teams:

Florida State: 68-14 (avg 11.33 wins - 2.33 losses)
Clemson: 62-19 (avg 10.33 wins - 3.17 losses)
Louisville: 54-24 (avg 9.00 wins - 4.00 losses)
Virginia Tech: 51-29 (avg 8.50 wins - 4.83 losses)
North Carolina: 47-31 (avg 7.83 wins - 5.17 losses)
Miami: 43-33 (avg 7.17 wins - 5.50 losses)
North Carolina State: 42-35 (avg 7.00 wins - 5.83 losses)
Georgia Tech: 42-37 (avg 7.00 wins - 6.17 losses)
Pitt: 41-37 (avg 6.83 wins - 6.17 losses)
Duke: 39-38 (avg 6.50 wins - 6.33 losses)
Syracuse: 35-40 (avg 5.83 wins - 6.67 losses)
Boston College: 30-45 (avg 5.00 wins - 7.50 losses)
Virginia: 27-46 (avg 4.50 wins - 7.67 losses)
Wake Forest: 24-49 (avg 4.00 wins - 8.17 losses)

I realize this is a little like Apples and Oranges, but to me it is evident there are 4 Tiers and they are:

Tier 1: Florida State and Clemson (combined 130-33; 0.798)
Tier 2: Louisville and Virginia Tech (combined 105-53; 0.665)
Tier 3: North Carolina, Miami, NC State, Georgia Tech, Pitt, and Duke (combined 254-211; 0.546)
Tier 4: Syracuse, BC, Virginia, Wake (combined 116-180; 0.392)

The problem with this is the fact that the only two Tier Two schools you list have been trending downward and none of your Tier Three schools have done enough to move them up.

UNC did alright last year, until the bowl game that is. And to add to this UNC finished out 11-0 but why weren't more people taking them seriously? Because they lost to a terrible South Carolina team to start.

But was it anything more than a one year fluke? They averaged 7 wins the three years prior....who's to say UNC doesn't go back to their typical mediocrity this coming year?

I was just stating it was a good start. Just need them to not lose OOC games. That's for the entire conference though lol.