(03-27-2016 07:53 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  ....Epic Run

I figured we had a Punchers Chance down 10 pts...great win.

I'll admit as an anti-Cuse poster, I was rooting for you to go one and done. Congrats on reaching the Final Four.

Also, that GIF is pretty sweet.

(03-27-2016 10:56 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(03-27-2016 07:53 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  ....Epic Run

I figured we had a Punchers Chance down 10 pts...great win.

I'll admit as an anti-Cuse poster, I was rooting for you to go one and done. Congrats on reaching the Final Four.

Also, that GIF is pretty sweet.

Thx...never thought of you as anti-Cuse...you actually debate well...good luck next season.

Impromptu party at an apartment in Cuse after today's game
To be in college again...

Syracuse shouldn't have been in the field but that won't stop them from holding up the trophy down the road next week. That said, the magic carpet ride ends against UNC.

(03-27-2016 10:55 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  It's still a choke job. When you're a #1 seed, you aren't supposed to do that. Even if it is against an opponent from your own conference.

Virginia fans are used to this. They only went to 1 Final Four with Ralph Sampson, though to their credit went to one after he left for the NBA with Olden Polynice, Rick Carlisle and spare parts. They were the main fuel to NC State's [expletive].

(03-28-2016 01:13 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Syracuse shouldn't have been in the field but that won't stop them from holding up the trophy down the road next week. That said, the magic carpet ride ends against UNC.

Who should have been in over SU?

Sure, this wasn't SU's best year, but there really wasn't anyone more deserving. St. Bonny, the team that many people mention as "the team that got screwed," actually lost to SU in a head-to-head, and didn't have as many resume wins. IMHO, our schedule was MUCH harder than the other bubble teams, and we had more big wins than anyone else in our strata. Throw in the fact that the ACC was very clearly underrated, and the results pretty much speak for themselves.

Yeah, there were losses to Georgetown and St. John's, but both of those schools see the SU game as a rivalry game. It's like Oklahoma losing to Texas in football this year. Crazy things happen in rivalry games, and, FWIW, crazier things happen when there are coach suspensions during rivalry games.

I get that SU is the team that everyone loves to hate. We have a grumpy coach, and we picked up PSU's tab after an ~8 year NCAA investigation - both in terms of NCAA treatment and national media treatment. But there's a point where the arguments are insane, and we've passed that line long ago.

And to all that say SU shouldn't be in the tourney, I ask you to re-evaluate your analysis. Maybe your methodology is what's flawed.

Even if you lose in a rivalry game, it still counts, especially while trying to figure out whose in or out.

Aside from that, St. Mary's won their moderately tough conference and reached the conference tournament final. [punches ticket]. Ditto for San Diego State. And I still think you can make a case for South Carolina even though they faltered down the stretch.

There's an argument for Monmouth but they had one too many bad losses down the stretch imo.

(03-28-2016 02:38 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Even if you lose in a rivalry game, it still counts, especially while trying to figure out whose in or out.

Aside from that, St. Mary's won their moderately tough conference and reached the conference tournament final. [punches ticket]. Ditto for San Diego State. And I still think you can make a case for South Carolina even though they faltered down the stretch.

There's an argument for Monmouth but they had one too many bad losses down the stretch imo.

Valparaiso is the only #1 seed left in the NIT. SDSU is still alive-they were a 2 seed.

sorry but the WCC and MWC were absolute garbage this season. There was nothing moderately tough about it.

(03-28-2016 01:02 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Impromptu party at an apartment in Cuse after today's game
To be in college again...

Syracuse has a phenomenal fan base. There is none better in the whole country.

(03-28-2016 02:38 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Even if you lose in a rivalry game, it still counts, especially while trying to figure out whose in or out.

Aside from that, St. Mary's won their moderately tough conference and reached the conference tournament final. [punches ticket]. Ditto for San Diego State. And I still think you can make a case for South Carolina even though they faltered down the stretch.

There's an argument for Monmouth but they had one too many bad losses down the stretch imo.

Yes, all losses count, but not all losses count the same, nor should they. SU losing to STJ and GU on the road isn't the same as a random team losing to them in a random location. It's just like Texas vs. OU in football, only in this case, the game wasn't played on a neutral site and one school didn't have a coach.

St. Mary's won the regular season crown for a weak conference and didn't play anyone OOC. They played Cal and lost and a terrible Stanford team and won. Syracuse had actual big wins.

SDSU knocked off Cal and lost to every other big team that they played (KU, WVU, and Utah). Like St. Mary's, they had a cake walk schedule and didn't do anything special with it. They never had tough back-to-back-to-back (etc.) games. At best, they had a handful of big games that were scattered throughout the schedule and they still couldn't consistently get up for them.

And even if you're right and those schools belong in the tourney, you still have the problem of SU not being one of the last two to get into the tourney.

(03-27-2016 07:37 PM)Artifice Wrote:  

(03-27-2016 07:32 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  If UNC loses all four #1 seeds will have been eliminated in this round.

That will never happen. There has been a clear cut narrative, including Emmerts announcement a few hours ago that the UNC CHeat investigation is nearly over... They were "happy" to give the cheaters as much time as they wanted... Just threw away their own process rules to do so.

Your butthurt makes me smile.

(03-27-2016 01:31 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-27-2016 01:23 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-26-2016 11:59 PM)stever20 Wrote:  totally different team that Oklahoma is going to see in Houston. one that doesn't live anywhere near as much by the 3 as they did back then.....

Nova was 4 for 32 in 3-pt attempts in their game vs. OU in Hawai'i. They were 4 for 18 vs. KU tonight. The key in the Final Four for Nova will be playing a physical, low-scoring game as they did vs. KU. If Hield goes on a tear vs. Nova like he did tonight vs. Oregon, then Nova will have to take more shots than they want to take... like the last time they played OU.

tonight vs Kansas 18 3's out of 52 shots
earlier vs Oklahoma 32 3's out of 63 shots

so they aren't jacking up 3's anywhere close to what they used to do.

frankly in this situation I much prefer to be in the Nova camp over the Oklahoma camp. Rematches like this are tough.....

Another factor in the Final Four is that Houston's NFL stadium is a basketball shooter's worst nightmare.

Hield is shooting over 50% on the season including almost 50% on 3-pt attempts. Can he shoot that well on Saturday? If he can't, that's a boost for Nova.

(03-28-2016 11:20 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-27-2016 01:31 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-27-2016 01:23 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-26-2016 11:59 PM)stever20 Wrote:  totally different team that Oklahoma is going to see in Houston. one that doesn't live anywhere near as much by the 3 as they did back then.....

Nova was 4 for 32 in 3-pt attempts in their game vs. OU in Hawai'i. They were 4 for 18 vs. KU tonight. The key in the Final Four for Nova will be playing a physical, low-scoring game as they did vs. KU. If Hield goes on a tear vs. Nova like he did tonight vs. Oregon, then Nova will have to take more shots than they want to take... like the last time they played OU.

tonight vs Kansas 18 3's out of 52 shots
earlier vs Oklahoma 32 3's out of 63 shots

so they aren't jacking up 3's anywhere close to what they used to do.

frankly in this situation I much prefer to be in the Nova camp over the Oklahoma camp. Rematches like this are tough.....

Another factor in the Final Four is that Houston's NFL stadium is a basketball shooter's worst nightmare.

Hield is shooting over 50% on the season including almost 50% on 3-pt attempts. Can he shoot that well on Saturday? If he can't, that's a boost for Nova.

yep and a great point about that is Oklahoma was 14-26 in their earlier matchup from 3 point range....

(03-28-2016 08:44 AM)stever20 Wrote:  sorry but the WCC and MWC were absolute garbage this season. There was nothing moderately tough about it.

Absolute garbage is stretching it greatly. As I say with the WCC, there were 2 good teams, maybe a couple below average teams and then a sharp dropoff.

(03-28-2016 08:40 AM)bullet Wrote:  Valparaiso is the only #1 seed left in the NIT. SDSU is still alive-they were a 2 seed.

As with my continued criticism of Syracuse's selection, results once the event starts is irrelevant. If you hired me for a job that I didn't deserve to be hired for, the fact that I excel after being given the gig doesn't mean I deserved the shot. In this case, they were demoted to the NIT but like high seeds knocked off in the NCAA's, fell short of fulfilling that seed. That speaks nothing of their accomplishment and credentials and more of the 1-off nature of a single elimination tournament. Plus, some teams lower in the bracket are actually more talented and perhaps more motivated.

(03-28-2016 09:35 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  Yes, all losses count, but not all losses count the same, nor should they. SU losing to STJ and GU on the road isn't the same as a random team losing to them in a random location. It's just like Texas vs. OU in football, only in this case, the game wasn't played on a neutral site and one school didn't have a coach.

If you walk around making up excuses like that, then every team can make up some rationale about why certain losses are okay.

"We lost because they were pumped and it was their senior night."

"We lost because their arena was extremely loud."

"We lost because their coach used to be one of our assistants and scouted us well."

"We lost because their hardwood floor and rims are slightly different than others."

You only get one, maybe two exceptions, especially if injuries are a factor. Otherwise, if you use that rationale for one, it must be used for all or you must be held accountable. How do you know Pepperdine doesn't just love playing SMC?

(03-28-2016 11:20 AM)Wedge Wrote:  Another factor in the Final Four is that Houston's NFL stadium is a basketball shooter's worst nightmare.

Hield is shooting over 50% on the season including almost 50% on 3-pt attempts. Can he shoot that well on Saturday? If he can't, that's a boost for Nova.

And watching those games in it is an even bigger nightmare. I swear I will never pay to watch another basketball game in a football stadium ever again, not after watching UConn and Butler live. With all due respect to the innovation of the late, great Guy Lewis, please bring the Final Four back to arenas. I'd love watching a title game at Hinkle Fieldhouse.

(03-28-2016 12:07 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(03-28-2016 08:44 AM)stever20 Wrote:  sorry but the WCC and MWC were absolute garbage this season. There was nothing moderately tough about it.

Absolute garbage is stretching it greatly. As I say with the WCC, there were 2 good teams, maybe a couple below average teams and then a sharp dropoff.

(03-28-2016 08:40 AM)bullet Wrote:  Valparaiso is the only #1 seed left in the NIT. SDSU is still alive-they were a 2 seed.

As with my continued criticism of Syracuse's selection, results once the event starts is irrelevant. If you hired me for a job that I didn't deserve to be hired for, the fact that I excel after being given the gig doesn't mean I deserved the shot. In this case, they were demoted to the NIT but like high seeds knocked off in the NCAA's, fell short of fulfilling that seed. That speaks nothing of their accomplishment and credentials and more of the 1-off nature of a single elimination tournament. Plus, some teams lower in the bracket are actually more talented and perhaps more motivated.

(03-28-2016 09:35 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  Yes, all losses count, but not all losses count the same, nor should they. SU losing to STJ and GU on the road isn't the same as a random team losing to them in a random location. It's just like Texas vs. OU in football, only in this case, the game wasn't played on a neutral site and one school didn't have a coach.

If you walk around making up excuses like that, then every team can make up some rationale about why certain losses are okay.

"We lost because they were pumped and it was their senior night."

"We lost because their arena was extremely loud."

"We lost because their coach used to be one of our assistants and scouted us well."

"We lost because their hardwood floor and rims are slightly different than others."

You only get one, maybe two exceptions, especially if injuries are a factor. Otherwise, if you use that rationale for one, it must be used for all or you must be held accountable. How do you know Pepperdine doesn't just love playing SMC?

Your mental gymnastics are amazing. My point isn't that the losses shouldn't count, despite the words that you put in my mouth. My point is that the losses aren't even close to being as bad as people like you pretend like they are. If Peperdine's rivalry with St. Mary's makes the cover of Sports Illustrated, and if Peperdine consistently recruits top notch players, then yeah, I won't count it as a bad loss of SMC loses @ a mediocre Pepperdine - especially if they did so without a coach.

The standard that you're using isn't realistic and it isn't applied in any other major setting. Not everyone is created equal, nor is every situation created equal.

And still, you have the problem of SU not being one of the last two teams in (which you conviently ignored in your reply)

(03-28-2016 12:07 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(03-28-2016 08:44 AM)stever20 Wrote:  sorry but the WCC and MWC were absolute garbage this season. There was nothing moderately tough about it.

Absolute garbage is stretching it greatly. As I say with the WCC, there were 2 good teams, maybe a couple below average teams and then a sharp dropoff.

(03-28-2016 08:40 AM)bullet Wrote:  Valparaiso is the only #1 seed left in the NIT. SDSU is still alive-they were a 2 seed.

As with my continued criticism of Syracuse's selection, results once the event starts is irrelevant. If you hired me for a job that I didn't deserve to be hired for, the fact that I excel after being given the gig doesn't mean I deserved the shot. In this case, they were demoted to the NIT but like high seeds knocked off in the NCAA's, fell short of fulfilling that seed. That speaks nothing of their accomplishment and credentials and more of the 1-off nature of a single elimination tournament. Plus, some teams lower in the bracket are actually more talented and perhaps more motivated.

(03-28-2016 09:35 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  Yes, all losses count, but not all losses count the same, nor should they. SU losing to STJ and GU on the road isn't the same as a random team losing to them in a random location. It's just like Texas vs. OU in football, only in this case, the game wasn't played on a neutral site and one school didn't have a coach.

If you walk around making up excuses like that, then every team can make up some rationale about why certain losses are okay.

"We lost because they were pumped and it was their senior night."

"We lost because their arena was extremely loud."

"We lost because their coach used to be one of our assistants and scouted us well."

"We lost because their hardwood floor and rims are slightly different than others."

You only get one, maybe two exceptions, especially if injuries are a factor. Otherwise, if you use that rationale for one, it must be used for all or you must be held accountable. How do you know Pepperdine doesn't just love playing SMC?

Yes, but those tournament results are additional indications that their regular season results weren't flukes. St. Mary's had an RPI of 40, SDSU 42, Valpo 49. Princeton was 39 and S. Dakota St. (12 seed) was 31, St. Bonaventure 30. Syracuse was 68.

@NZMOrange

Just excuses and more chatter, I'm not the only one doing mental gymnastics. To avoid being redundant, I stand by my last rebuttal.

@Bullet

Anything can happen once the Tournament starts. I go back to the hiring comparison. And the fact that Princeton had a top 50 RPI tells you all you need to know about RPI. Syracuse probably shouldn't have been in but it had zero to do with relative RPI.

(03-28-2016 11:20 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-27-2016 01:31 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-27-2016 01:23 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-26-2016 11:59 PM)stever20 Wrote:  totally different team that Oklahoma is going to see in Houston. one that doesn't live anywhere near as much by the 3 as they did back then.....

Nova was 4 for 32 in 3-pt attempts in their game vs. OU in Hawai'i. They were 4 for 18 vs. KU tonight. The key in the Final Four for Nova will be playing a physical, low-scoring game as they did vs. KU. If Hield goes on a tear vs. Nova like he did tonight vs. Oregon, then Nova will have to take more shots than they want to take... like the last time they played OU.

tonight vs Kansas 18 3's out of 52 shots
earlier vs Oklahoma 32 3's out of 63 shots

so they aren't jacking up 3's anywhere close to what they used to do.

frankly in this situation I much prefer to be in the Nova camp over the Oklahoma camp. Rematches like this are tough.....

Another factor in the Final Four is that Houston's NFL stadium is a basketball shooter's worst nightmare.

Hield is shooting over 50% on the season including almost 50% on 3-pt attempts. Can he shoot that well on Saturday? If he can't, that's a boost for Nova.

Carrier Dome presents a similar (not quite as extreme though) contrast for shooters. Gotta figure playing in a Dome favors Cuse.