http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketb...ament-2016

If there is to be such a thing as the “Power 5” among collegiate athletic conferences, and if such a designation is to apply to basketball and not just football, well, OK: Who are you kicking out to make room for Villanova and the Big East?

It seems as if the rush lately to designate Villanova as some sort of NCAA choker because of consecutive second-round losses over the past two years carried the scent of condescension toward the Big East. There seemed to be an effort to contain the Wildcats and their league partners to some sort of area off the stage, something one can expect the league might wish to aggressively counter as it seeks to enforce the value of its brand.

I mean, let’s remember, Kansas had Andrew Wiggins and Kelly Oubre over the previous two years, lost each time in the second round and was not transformed into a national punch line. Nor should it have been. But that was how the Wildcats were treated.

“I just think football,” Wright said. “The Power 5 are football conferences, built for football, and some of them — like the ACC — are also great basketball conferences.

“We’re just a basketball league. Our league is all basketball, our schools, our tradition — it’s basketball. It’s for basketball purists.”

There really isn't a clear mark anymore in basketball. There used to be conferences far stronger than the rest and a clearer line that existed between them (sometimes a bit blurrier, but generally still there). Right now it's more of a spectrum. You go from the top couple of conferences most years, to the next level just a bit down, to the new level, and so forth without the difference between any two levels next to each other seeming all that huge (but big when compared to the ones 2 levels down).

It's pretty simple: "P5" is a money term and a football term. It doesn't necessarily apply to basketball or any other sport.

it also means far less in basketball than it does in football. in basketball you can be a great team in a mediocre conference(see Gonzaga in the WCC).

It seems like there are SIX power conferences for basketball*, including the Big East.

However, the distinction has never been as clear for basketball as it has been for football.

* although I wonder about SEC basketball sometimes.

(03-25-2016 09:41 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  It seems like there are SIX power conferences for basketball*, including the Big East.

However, the distinction has never been as clear for basketball as it has been for football.

* although I wonder about SEC basketball sometimes.

They have Kentucky to Anchor 'em down.

There is still a sorting out process going on since the great realigment that occurred from 2010-2014. Still the fact is for the sweet 16 in 2016, the count was

ACC 6
BigTen 3
Big12 3
SEC 1
PAC 1
Big East 1
WCC 1

So by my. count the sweet 16 was dominated by the P5.

P5 14 teams
NON-P5 2 teams

It is not obvious to me if the NON-P5 teams can keep up in the long run. Maybe the Big East will be an exception, but time will tell.

Your premiss is completely overreaching. Villanova is having a nice run. That in no way equates to prove P5 term meaningless. By my count 38 of the 68 qualifying teams were from schools in P5 conferences. That is the story here and it will continue to be the trend that the old C7 never understood. P5 membership provides money and exposure that helps all other sports.

(03-25-2016 09:53 AM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  Your premiss is completely overreaching. Villanova is having a nice run. That in no way equates to prove P5 term meaningless. By my count 38 of the 68 qualifying teams were from schools in P5 conferences. That is the story here and it will continue to be the trend that the old C7 never understood. P5 membership provides money and exposure that helps all other sports.

you are wrong...
Big East had 5 teams
AAC had 4 teams
A10 had 3 teams
MVC had 2 teams
then 23 conferences had 1 team
so non P5 conferences had 37 teams, meaning P5 had 31 teams. The Big East and AAC had more teams than the SEC did(and SEC was matched by the A10).

Like I said, conferences in basketball mean far less than in football. I mean 5 years ago, in the pac 10, you had a conference regular season champion miss the tourney.

(03-25-2016 09:53 AM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  Your premiss is completely overreaching. Villanova is having a nice run. That in no way equates to prove P5 term meaningless. By my count 38 of the 68 qualifying teams were from schools in P5 conferences. That is the story here and it will continue to be the trend that the old C7 never understood. P5 membership provides money and exposure that helps all other sports.

I disagree with the concept that the C7 never understood. They understood very well. They also did not stand in the way of the BE FB schools working to improve the FB conference (all FB schools but Temple were made full members, TCU was admitted with full membership). The BE FB schools that the C7 wanted to be conference members with never agreed on how to grow past 8 until TCU. The C7 didn't leave until all of the schools that they wanted to be conference members with (except UConn & Cincy) were already gone, and it was clear to them that the FB conference being formed around them (the current AAC) was not a P5 conference. It was fine for the C7 to hang around with schools they liked and had long-term relationships with in a BCS conference and deal with football issues. It wasn't fine to be with a bunch of schools with whom there was little to no prior relationship in a conference that was not P5.

(03-25-2016 10:00 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 09:53 AM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  Your premiss is completely overreaching. Villanova is having a nice run. That in no way equates to prove P5 term meaningless. By my count 38 of the 68 qualifying teams were from schools in P5 conferences. That is the story here and it will continue to be the trend that the old C7 never understood. P5 membership provides money and exposure that helps all other sports.

you are wrong...
Big East had 5 teams
AAC had 4 teams
A10 had 3 teams
MVC had 2 teams
then 23 conferences had 1 team
so non P5 conferences had 37 teams, meaning P5 had 31 teams. The Big East and AAC had more teams than the SEC did(and SEC was matched by the A10).

Like I said, conferences in basketball mean far less than in football. I mean 5 years ago, in the pac 10, you had a conference regular season champion miss the tourney.

No need to argue with a Rutgers fan haha

(03-25-2016 09:53 AM)goofus Wrote:  There is still a sorting out process going on since the great realigment that occurred from 2010-2014. Still the fact is for the sweet 16 in 2016, the count was

ACC 6
BigTen 3
Big12 3
SEC 1
PAC 1
Big East 1
WCC 1

So by my. count the sweet 16 was dominated by the P5.

P5 14 teams
NON-P5 2 teams

It is not obvious to me if the NON-P5 teams can keep up in the long run. Maybe the Big East will be an exception, but time will tell.

You have a point but then look at the round of 32..
Oklahoma beat VCU by 4
Notre Dame beat SFA by 1
Oregon beat St Joe's by 5
Wisconsin beat Xavier by 3
Texas A&M beat Northern Iowa by 4
and 3 others where the P5 team won by less than 10 points.
so it's hardly that the P5 is dominating these games.

(03-25-2016 09:53 AM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  Your premiss is completely overreaching. Villanova is having a nice run. That in no way equates to prove P5 term meaningless. By my count 38 of the 68 qualifying teams were from schools in P5 conferences. That is the story here and it will continue to be the trend that the old C7 never understood. P5 membership provides money and exposure that helps all other sports.

Love Rutgers fans going on about money and exposure. How much money and exposure do you need before Rutgers wins something besides a Womens' Final Four?

C7 is Big Boy Basketball end of discussion.

(03-25-2016 10:33 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  C7 is Big Boy Basketball end of discussion.

MAke a couple of Final Fours over the next few years, see if the term "BCS leagues" makes a comeback.

(03-25-2016 09:53 AM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  Your premiss is completely overreaching. Villanova is having a nice run. That in no way equates to prove P5 term meaningless. By my count 38 of the 68 qualifying teams were from schools in P5 conferences. That is the story here and it will continue to be the trend that the old C7 never understood. P5 membership provides money and exposure that helps all other sports.

You seriously don't think the New Big East doesn't understand what P5 means? Of course they do, they just don't care about football, which is why they split with the Big East football members.

Like it or not, the Big East gets paid for its basketball at the same level as a P5 conference, and we get the respect from the selection committee and from other P5 leagues (e.g., the B1G/Big East Challenge). So we get treated like a Power hoops league.

(03-25-2016 10:39 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 10:33 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  C7 is Big Boy Basketball end of discussion.

MAke a couple of Final Fours over the next few years, see if the term "BCS leagues" makes a comeback.

I'm comfortable calling it P6 in Hoops. Maybe P7 with the AAC

(03-25-2016 10:42 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 09:53 AM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  Your premiss is completely overreaching. Villanova is having a nice run. That in no way equates to prove P5 term meaningless. By my count 38 of the 68 qualifying teams were from schools in P5 conferences. That is the story here and it will continue to be the trend that the old C7 never understood. P5 membership provides money and exposure that helps all other sports.

You seriously don't think the New Big East doesn't understand what P5 means? Of course they do, they just don't care about football, which is why they split with the Big East football members.

Like it or not, the Big East gets paid for its basketball at the same level as a P5 conference, and we get the respect from the selection committee and from other P5 leagues (e.g., the B1G/Big East Challenge). So we get treated like a Power hoops league.

I don't know that you can really say the Big East gets the respect from the selection committee. I mean, they punished Nova pretty hard for a loss in the BET, while not giving Seton Hall a ton of respect.

Also while the Big Ten/Big East challenge is decent- the top teams from the Big Ten only have to be in there 4 times in 8 years. And the Pac 12 challenge that was talked about isn't going to happen because Arizona and UCLA wanted no part of it.

(03-25-2016 10:33 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  C7 is Big Boy Basketball end of discussion.

Basketball is far less important than football. Non-football conferences have no claim to "power".

(03-25-2016 10:48 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 10:42 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  You seriously don't think the New Big East doesn't understand what P5 means? Of course they do, they just don't care about football, which is why they split with the Big East football members.

Like it or not, the Big East gets paid for its basketball at the same level as a P5 conference, and we get the respect from the selection committee and from other P5 leagues (e.g., the B1G/Big East Challenge). So we get treated like a Power hoops league.

I don't know that you can really say the Big East gets the respect from the selection committee. I mean, they punished Nova pretty hard for a loss in the BET, while not giving Seton Hall a ton of respect.

Also while the Big Ten/Big East challenge is decent- the top teams from the Big Ten only have to be in there 4 times in 8 years. And the Pac 12 challenge that was talked about isn't going to happen because Arizona and UCLA wanted no part of it.

I am glad the Pac-12 challenge didnt work out. there is no real benefit for us to do it with the Pac-12, it helps them more than it helps us. I would rather set up a serious with the ACC or Big 12.