P5 never was meant to be a term used for basketball. Derp.

The "Power Conference" BS needs to go away as does the term "Mid-Major."

Big East Basketball was, is and will continue to be a big time basketball conference because of Villanova, Butler, Georgetown, Marquette, St John, Xavier and others.

That's a better basketball line-up than most conferences.
CJ

(03-25-2016 03:53 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The "Power Conference" BS needs to go away as does the term "Mid-Major."

Big East Basketball was, is and will continue to be a big time basketball conference because of Villanova, Butler, Georgetown, Marquette, St John, Xavier and others.

That's a better basketball line-up than most conferences.
CJ

Agreed.

(03-25-2016 09:19 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  It's pretty simple: "P5" is a money term and a football term. It doesn't necessarily apply to basketball or any other sport.

Agree

(03-25-2016 03:53 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The "Power Conference" BS needs to go away as does the term "Mid-Major."

Big East Basketball was, is and will continue to be a big time basketball conference because of Villanova, Butler, Georgetown, Marquette, St John, Xavier and others.

That's a better basketball line-up than most conferences.
CJ

Exactly. The Big East is no less a power conference than anyone with the actual label. Heck, they're better than the SEC.

(03-25-2016 03:57 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 03:53 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The "Power Conference" BS needs to go away as does the term "Mid-Major."

Big East Basketball was, is and will continue to be a big time basketball conference because of Villanova, Butler, Georgetown, Marquette, St John, Xavier and others.

That's a better basketball line-up than most conferences.
CJ

Agreed.

Yeah, they should replace 'mid major conferences' with 'minor conferences'.

(03-25-2016 04:31 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 03:57 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 03:53 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The "Power Conference" BS needs to go away as does the term "Mid-Major."

Big East Basketball was, is and will continue to be a big time basketball conference because of Villanova, Butler, Georgetown, Marquette, St John, Xavier and others.

That's a better basketball line-up than most conferences.
CJ

Agreed.

Yeah, they should replace 'mid major conferences' with 'minor conferences'.

I like your major/minor idea....but they should go by programs, not conferences. For example... UCONN is a 'major program' while Virginia Tech is a 'minor program.'

(03-25-2016 03:44 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  P5 never was meant to be a term used for basketball. Derp.

No, but it's probably not a coincidence that other than UConn, the last school not currently in a P5 conference to win a national title was UNLV in 1990.

P5 may not have anything directly to do with basketball, but it seems to load the dice in favor of success.

(03-25-2016 05:03 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 03:44 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  P5 never was meant to be a term used for basketball. Derp.

No, but it's probably not a coincidence that other than UConn, the last school not currently in a P5 conference to win a national title was UNLV in 1990.

P5 may not have anything directly to do with basketball, but it seems to load the dice in favor of success.

Big East would have been better off staying with a smaller AAC

(03-25-2016 04:11 PM)brista21 Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 03:53 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The "Power Conference" BS needs to go away as does the term "Mid-Major."

Big East Basketball was, is and will continue to be a big time basketball conference because of Villanova, Butler, Georgetown, Marquette, St John, Xavier and others.

That's a better basketball line-up than most conferences.
CJ

Exactly. The Big East is no less a power conference than anyone with the actual label. Heck, they're better than the SEC.

Basketball is no more impotant than softball to the SEC except to Kentucky...and they suck at the only sport that matters and are considered a bottom feeder.

(03-25-2016 05:03 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 03:44 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  P5 never was meant to be a term used for basketball. Derp.

No, but it's probably not a coincidence that other than UConn, the last school not currently in a P5 conference to win a national title was UNLV in 1990.

P5 may not have anything directly to do with basketball, but it seems to load the dice in favor of success.

I agree with this.

Seeding makes a huge difference in the tournament. So everyone can pat themselves on the backs for all the credits, etc., but at the end of the day, the very weird seeding year after year makes a huge difference in the results. This is why I think Elite 8 and F4 and National championships mean a lot more than tourney berths or sweet 16s.

I do think that in al cases the cream rises to the top. Every year I go away feeling the best college basketball team in March wins the NCAA. And that's how champions should be crowned. But it's much more difficult to prove that when you have 6 tough games to play, as opposed to say 4 or 5.

Butler had two excellent opportunities as well, I believe they were in a mid-major conference at the time (Horizon League).

(03-25-2016 05:15 PM)Rich52c Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 05:03 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 03:44 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  P5 never was meant to be a term used for basketball. Derp.

No, but it's probably not a coincidence that other than UConn, the last school not currently in a P5 conference to win a national title was UNLV in 1990.

P5 may not have anything directly to do with basketball, but it seems to load the dice in favor of success.

Big East would have been better off staying with a smaller AAC

In what way? Seems to me they made a good choice. They only make money from basketball (and would have if they had stayed in the old BE). Why should they want to share that wealth with a lot of other schools that add little hoops revenue?

(03-25-2016 05:15 PM)Rich52c Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 05:03 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 03:44 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  P5 never was meant to be a term used for basketball. Derp.

No, but it's probably not a coincidence that other than UConn, the last school not currently in a P5 conference to win a national title was UNLV in 1990.

P5 may not have anything directly to do with basketball, but it seems to load the dice in favor of success.

Big East would have been better off staying with a smaller AAC

Could not disagree more with that statement.

The C7 stayed with the football schools of the Big East for so long because the relationship was mutually beneficial for both parties. The football schools benefited from aligning with them in non-football sports, especially basketball but also other olympic sports, and vice versa. When it was clear that a majority of the full members, most of whom were especially strong in basketball, would no longer be in the conference, it was an opportunity for the C7 to start fresh and start making decisions in their best interests - not for football.

The unfortunate reality is that Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville, Notre Dame, and West Virginia were all being replaced with SMU, Houston, UCF, Tulane and, eventually, ECU - and in no way were those changes going to positively affect the basketball brands that the C7 focus on and drive towards.

The AAC and the Big East are both better off because of the split. The AAC schools, who all focus on football and would love to get into the P5, not only get the exposure on ESPN but a spot in the on-deck circle to get into the "elite" club. At the bare minimum, they get to be in a conference with similar institutions in big cities/media markets - and that is an improvement over C-USA (a majority of whom were called up from). The Big East gets to focus on basketball first, with like-minded institutions, in big cities and are getting paid handsomely for it for the foreseeable future.

(03-25-2016 03:35 PM)stever20 Wrote:  bottom line, you don't have to have the P5 label to be good in college basketball. It helps sure, but it's not a must. I mean, Gonzaga has made 7 sweet 16's in the last 17 years now. You say that's no big deal... well only 17 programs have more than that since 1985(when the tourney went to 64 teams). Only Duke(14), Mich St(13), Kansas(11), Kentucky(10), UNC(9),Arizona(9), UConn(8),UCLA(8) have been to more, and Louisville and Syracuse have been to as many as Gonzaga since 1999. So the label sure as hell isn't hurting them at all.....

But weren't most of those UConn sweet 16 runs were as a member of the BCS Big East? I know that four of the Louisville runs were.

So that particular slice of the evidence makes it look like it does not merely help, it helps a whole hell of a lot.

It is, of course, not just the label, but the ability to recruit with the hope of winning a conference championship under that conference banner.

Now, I don't know about the premise of the original source article. I am sure there were some people trying to make the case that the Big East had descended to being some kind of "tweener" conference in Basketaball ... but my confidence there is because there are always people willing to argue foolish things. Any such argument was always silly. When we see four "P5" FB conferences get 7 BBall bids, the non-FB Big East get 5, the AAC get 4, the SEC and A10 get 3, and the MVC get 2, the question is whether you consider the AAC a "tweener" conference in BBall, which would make the SEC one as well, or whether you include the Big East, AAC, and A10 in a Bball P8.

Given the FB bias of professional sports media, it is a strong benefit for the AAC conference to get more bids than the SEC, since the professional sports media would be loathe to think of the SEC as not being a major conference in a big money sport like BBall.

(03-25-2016 10:33 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  C7 is Big Boy Basketball end of discussion.

Yeah, I don't get this thread. I don't think that anyone seriously thinks that the BIG EAST isn't a major basketball conference. Georgetown, 'Nova, and Marquette aren't exactly obscure teams, and neither are Creighton, St. X, and (recently) Butler (although I would put this group below the first group). And it's not like St. John's, DePaul, Seton Hall, and Prov. don't have a ton of history.

This thread just shows that the media war continues...and there are so many young media members that only know what they see right now.

If the Big East and American don't show well, the media wants to just dismiss them, because they are in bed with the P5.

Think about the media and P5 this way....they are very similar to the radio stations that just play the same 10 or 12 songs over and over...and they act like there isn't other god music out there. Why do radio stations do this? Because it gets the biggest bang for the buck. Because people only listen in small increments. That is how the media feeds us sports.

One more thing...UConn proved this a few years ago...the media has short memories.